Aroura

Take Puddles with us, I like that idea :lol: :D I don't think there is a Pap rescue in Aus, they are so rare here, I have only ever seen two in real life and despite searching the net I could only come up with about 6 breeders in the whole of Australia! If I do happen to find a rescue Pap though I think I would have to travell to get it. I have emailed a breeder in Melbourne asking if she knows of Papillon rescues, if not she might be able to help me find a Pap in need of a home, maybe if one of her Paps was returned or she knows of some one who can't keep theirs any more. If she can't help I'll email a few more breeders and shelters. LOL, I don't even know if I'll get one yet!!! I guess for now I just want to check out my options, after all, a dog is for life and its not something you go rushing in to :wink:

Oh no :o Just seeing the belly was too much for me!!! :o Now I will have to go insane :( :wallbash: :madgo: :drinka: :silly: :modla:

Does your sister live near you? Maybe you could get her to look after them during the day? I say them as I beleive if a dog isn't going to have human company for 10 hours a day it needs some sort of company, and another dog is probably the best sort. I'm with everyone else that rescuing an adult dog would be your best bet. If not, there are plenty of nice cats out there, breeds like the Devon Rex and the Siamese are so dog like if you didn't know better you wouldn't notice the difference! :lol:

I agree with you 100% Horsefeathers about things being considered on an individual basis. I don't know your exact circumastances, but I do know that you love and provide the best care for each individual pooch in your palace :wink: I personally beleive I could care for another dog, Papillons are small enough that they are easy to travell with and food bills are small, if I was looking into getting a Neopolitan Mastiff that would be a different matter because I KNOW I wouldn't be able to care for it adequetly, nor would the house have space for it. I'm at uni and have also put thought into that, which is why I wont be buying one to breed, but in the meantime I think that another small dog wouldn't be any hassle to my future plans. We all make decisions and, like you, I have chosen a life of dogs over a life of wealth and travelling! I already have my two, so moving into a small apartment or travelling are already ruled out anyway. It is Lily who has the aggression problems, but she is good with little dogs. I'm positive that if I did get a Pap that there would be no fights, as she NEVER gets into fights when I'm not around and when she does I can read her body language now. She has never attacked Puddles and I'm sure she could quite easily get along with another little dog (again, if I was speaking of a Neo that would be a different matter!). Puddles would actually be my main worry, she hates little dogs! We've never had a little dog here for more than a day or two, but I'm sure if we were to get a little new family member it would be a great play mate for Puddles once she got used to it. Tessa's fine, as is Donna. Tessa just ignores other dogs, even if they be chewing her ear she just acts like they aren't there. Donna is actually very mature for a puppy and knows very quickly if a dog doesn't want to play with her and just ignores it also. Lily, Donna and Tessa are mostly out door dogs anyway, they have far too much energy to be cooped in the house all day!!! If I got a Pap it would be inside with Puddles. Aonir, to answer the considerations you posted... 1. Cost (food, vet bills, etc) Food will be an easy one, they are so small and I've estimated it will cost $5 a fortnight max to feed a widdle Pap :) I've put some thought into vet bills, as especially by getting an older rescue Pap they could add up. I'm good with paying back money, I'm actually pretty good with prioritys and the dogs ALWAYS come first, so if there WAS and emergancy and I didn't have enough money stored away my parents could lend it to me. Though it has been shown that by feeding a BARF diet vet bills are reduced by as much as 80%! (Though Horsefeathers may disagree with me here... :wink: - each to their own :) ) 2. Family (will your family love to have another pet? and have time for it?) Well I know I'll have time for it! I basically live with just dad, my brother lives here but doesn't associate with the dogs much, but he does love them. For anyone who remembers my problems with Willem and Lily, don't worry, they have stopped, she gets nothing but cuddles from him now :) I havn't yet sat down and had a good chat to dad about the matter, I've talked about it alot and he hasn't said anything negative on the topic, he has actually fallen in love with this little one at dog training, thinks it is the sweetest thing ever, but of course if I were to find one I would talk it over with him seriously first. 3. Space (all dogs need a lot of space, a lot of dogs isnt ideal for a trailer/apartment) Well we have a 4 bedroom house and a large back yard if that answers the question. The big dogs run around outside all day while any little dogs (visitors or pets) sleep inside on the lounge most of the day and get their sunshine outside for a few hours, plus a 4km daily walk off lead through the paddocks nearby. 4. Other Animals (Will they like a new playmate??) Hmm, like I said, its up to Puddles. The big dogs wont really be an issue, but Puddles thinks she is Queen. I think she could learn to love a new play mate though, as long as they met on nuteral grounds. She does get rather playful at times :wink:

I always had this image in my head about more than a certain number of dogs being "too much", pretty much reguardless of circumstances I always thought that more than three or four tops was too many. I probably got this image from my friend who's mum, in all the best intentions, kept any stray she found yet couldn't afford to desex them. They had about twenty cats, 4 dogs, a constant supply of kittens plus horses, chooks ducks, a bird, you name it. Of course on their budget with so many animals many of them were sickly. We've got 4 dogs now, a Kelpie/Pig dog cross, a poodle/chihuahua cross, a Boxer and a Labradore cross, all ranging from 5 months to 5 years. I've always thought that many dogs would be too many, but each dog is loved to death, they all do training and/or agility and they all have a "nothing but the best" diet. Two of them are mine, the other two are my dads and my sisters. Now, I really want to get a Papillon. I want to wait until Claire takes Puddles, but at the moment Claire is living somewhere that she can't keep her dog, so Puddles is with us. But if I find a Papillon that needs a home through a rescue service now, I'll want to snatch it up but am wondering, do we have too many dogs? Any oppinions will be appreciated, I know the decision is really up to me, but I could really do with some other oppinions...

A dogs stomach is far too acidic for bacteria to survive in, if you are worried though, soak the meat in Apple Cider vinager before feeding it to Luka, not only does it kill the bacteria but it is also very good for dogs. You have to be careful feeding fish and know where it comes from, some raw fish has an enzyme in it that depletes vitamin b, I can't tell you which fish this is as I can't remember, but to be safe I only feed my dogs tinned fish, besides, I can't afford to spend $20kg+ on fresh fish for myself, let alone two hungry dogs!!! As for bones, never feed cooked bones. Marrow bones are great, so long as they are not cut in half which may cause teeth to break due to the unnatural edges. Raw chicken bones are great, same with turkey, lamb etc. I tend to avoid beef and pig bones as they are very hard. You have to be careful feeding dogs pork in some countries, Australia is fine but I'm not sure about else where as some countrys pigs have a disease which dogs can get from eating their raw meat, very bad, not sure what its called or exactly what it does but I think K knows? Good luck with convincing your dad!

Roo, I don't intend to breed until I have finnished uni, have my own house and a steady job - so I'm really looking into the future!!! :lol: I do intend to get a Pap before that though, hopefully soonish, a non breeding one, probably an older rescue if I can get my hands on one :D I think I will look into importing though, with so few breeders in Aus. The pages I have looked at, most of the breeders appear to have produced alot of very good dogs and alot of them only breed every few years, so I think as a whole the pap breeders here are quite reputable, of course that doesn't mean there aren't still puppy millers who simply don't have web pages. Carol, you are right, it is lacking a breed philosophy statement, something to be wary about. There were so many breeds listed, I just can't see how anyone could breed so many dogs and be doing it all right. Is it possible? I'm after a brown and white one, I like the black and white, as well as the tricolour paps but I think the brown ones are prettier, and less common, so hopefully I will be able to find a good one. About shows etc, I would love to attend shows all the time but its so hard for me!!! I live kind of in the middle of no where. Apparently there is an annual show here, but do you think they advertise it? I've never heard anything of it except by the of mouth that it actually exists! Even though I wont be getting a show/breeding pap for some years, I really want to look into the bloodlines now and follow them so that by the time I'm ready I really am on the right track. I have seen some rather good pages aside from this one and am going to email the breeders, it is always best to keep in contact with as many breeders as possible because hopefully when the time does come for me to get a pap I will have some friends dedicated to the breed to help me find the "perfect" dog :D

[quote name='rOWIE'](Oh,btw, I would love to start her on BARF, but I can't find any here as usual! :( )[/quote] Rowie :D :D :D Thats the great thing about BARF!!! You can get it anywhere!!! Ok, you can buy prepackaged veggie rolls, a "just add meat" kind of thing that you can't get everywhere, but, like you I live in a place where the "best" food is Eukanuba!!!! I don't buy the rolls, all you really need is a super market and possibly a health food shop and you've got all you need for a BARF diet! Veggies, meat, bones, maybe some kelp, yoghurt, eggs, cod liver oil or flax seed oil etc and thats all you need! Ahh the convinience and availability of natural food :wink: :D

Goldun, I was going to point out that 27 year old vegetarian Border Collie, one of the oldest dogs ever recorded, second only to a 28 year old Blue Heeler (go the healthy hearding breeds!!!) :D There is so much I want to say, but I will keep it short. Firstly, by the time dog food has gone through all that extreme heating and proccessing, it doesn't matter how expensive or "good" it is, it needs all the nutrients to be put in artificially anyway, so personally I would sooner feed my dogs a vegetarian kibble with raw meat added than ANY other commercial kibble alone. No kibble that I know of has nearly enough vegetables in them otherwise. Secondly, Courneck I would have to say I strongly disagree with you about the rice, who conducted these studys? Commercial manufacturers who base their kibbles on rice, and who are running the studys compared to other grains such as wheat and corn? Grains are an unnatural and unneccissary part of a dogs diet, they simply provide bulk and deprive a dog of more nutritious foods such as meat, vegetables and egg etc. I've gotta say, I'm with Dogpaddle on this one, the more I think about it the more I realise that BARF is the ONLY way to go, my dogs have never looked better and are so much healthier than any other dogs I see at training or elsewhere. Oh, and doing the pooper scooping is no longer an issue!!! Seeing as all the poops disapear within a matter of days anyway... If money is an issue, look around, it can be hard but it is possible to find the cheapest meat in town. One of our local butchers just started selling chicken bones and guess what? My dog food bill has been literally cut in half!!! From $40 a fortnight to only $20 a fortnight!!! I'm telling you, I was bouncing off walls when I found that, I couldn't keep still all day, I was so happy! So talk to your butchers, look around and you may be able to find fresh meat which is extremely affordable :D

Well, I know some girls who are always talking about their "puppys" but I never thought anyone would take it quite so litterally! :o

Oh no, this is terrible!!!! :o Please don't let me see the pics, because I know as soon as I see them I will fall head over heels in love and will go insane knowing that I can't have one :( I saw a Malamute puppy once, and am still getting over that one :roll: Argh, puppies are just too damn cute!!! :evil: :lol:

I've been searching around the Papillon websites and I came across this one: [url]http://cust.idl.com.au/welona/[/url] They've produced a few champions, and the dogs look very healthy, but there are so many of them! Does this look sus to you or simply a good breeder with a lot of dogs? :-?

[quote name='Luka-pop']My dad thinks that feeding the dog meat will bring out the carnivore in him, which will get him to chase more squirrels and stuff to catch and eat[/quote] That is one of the biggest myths around, being spread by people who don't know what they're talking about, probably started by the multi billion dollar commercial industry. My dogs are fresh, raw meat every morning, it doesn't change anything to do with their natural instincts, except that they are eating as nature would intend them to do. Tessa chased rabbits before she ever got a raw meat meal, and Lily is intent on chasing cats, its got nothing to do with what they eat, its their natural instincts and even our little poodle chases rabbits, its only a game for them. Do you think a racing grey hound who had never eaten a raw meal in its life would fail to chase the rabbit simply because it had never had a taste of natural food?

[quote name='The Big Guest']Around the world, anti-BSL campaigners are rejoicing at the ruling that drew on evidence provided by genuine canine experts, which was favoured by the judges over subjective evidence, put forward by veterinarians and politicians. The court ruling and the evidence used may now be legitimately used to fight BSL in other countries such as Germany and Australia, as well as other US States. In the UK, the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act could possibly be open to a direct egal challenge in the same way.[/quote] Yes, PLEASE!!! What great news, this is something that could benefit the WHOLE WORLD!!!! Lets hope so, anyway :D

No. I do believe in vaccinating puppys as they are very vulnerable to diseases, though evidence suggests that vaccinations last for up to 4 years and so spending all that money every year pumping drugs into my dogs is really unneccessary. I'd rather just vaccinate every couple of years to keep the immune system strong, but not over worked :D

Thank you!!! I am just looking now... :D

They have a have your say? Well in that case I definatly will!!! I didn't see it before as I was too infuriated to look any further :evil: Roxy, I can see your point, but even if it was just naturally aggressive I would say there would have been some external factor to make it feel the need to scale the fence and rip the other dog to peices. She could have been used for fighting, maybe not but the look in the poor girls eyes was one of neglect and it nearly brought me to tears, only I was already too angry for that :evil: :cry:

Oh what a catch!!! I bet she was proud, my dogs are all jealous, want to know how she did it!!! Actually Tessa caught a rabbit once, she was pretty proud of herself, even happier when I let her eat it!!! Oh, by the way, it was a wild rabbit! :wink:

Yes, happy birthday Poppy!!! :D Rowie, of course you can be my partner!!! Imagine the money we could make, selling tickets to dog lovers all around the world who have been waiting to see justice for all these years! And you know I was thinking also we could take all those bastards enforcing BSL laws and killing innocent family pets each day and serve them justice also, think of it, taking away a family member from their family, just as they have done to all those dogs familys every day. Oh I'm evil, but very pissed off :evil:

Yes, I say ban the owner too. Did you see that dog? The poor thing looked so mis treated! How can they look at such an obviously mis treated dog and use it as a basis to say it is "proof" that they should ban the breed? So one Labradore gets in a fight, is that "proof" that the breed should be banned??? :evil: Oh I have to stop thinking about this, it is making me so angry that they can knock on peoples doors now and take their dog away and kill it, just because of how it looks! :cry: What if they banned Boxers? I couldn't comprehend how I would feel, having some stranger knock on my door and take Lily away to kill her, I couldn't possibly think of anything worse :cry: One member of this forum is actually in this situation with her Pits in Queensland, fighting till the end, tearfully awaiting that dreaded knock at the door, symboling the death of her two very beloved pets, but I don't think she wants her name mentioned :cry:

This is killing me inside that someone could write this article. [url]http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6851606%5E2765,00.html[/url] I am so angry! What they should be looking at is how terrible a life this poor soul must have had to make her like this. Is it really her fault that she was probably brutally beaten each day and not fed unless she showed the utmost instincts to kill? We have to keep the Queenslanders in our hearts who own and love their Pits and face having them stolen and heartlessly killed without any thought at all as to how loved they really are and the joy they bring to their familly with each and every breath. :cry:

LOL, yes, WHEN I win the lottery :lol: Can't wait!!! Yes, I will invent that tracking micro chip, and buy that island I've been promising you all AND I will built a huge Pit, get all those nasty dog fighters and inject them with hormones to make them aggessive and throw THEM in the pit and see how THEY like it!!!! Sound like a plan?

A Pap and a Boxer??? What great taste in dogs they must have!!! :lol: Yes, I think when I do get my Pap that I will import it, seeing as I intend to breed and the gene pool here must be so small it seems like the best thing to do. Seeing as they are so rare here I've never actually met one, so its great to hear your storys! :D

Great choice cyber!!! Thats the one I would have gone with, just remember, big dogs can be very expensive to maintain. I'm always broke with my two, and they aren't even as big as a dobe! Worth every cent though, of course :wink: You should join, like I always say, when it comes to dogs, you can never learn too much! You can never brag too much either, but thats a different matter all together :roll: Yes, do make sure you post pics as soon as you get your new bundle of joy, we all love puppys! :angel:

I would definatly go the dobe!!! :D I've always loved the breed, their sleek coat and their ever sharp, intellegent look. You can also get a very different coulours, all very nice, I like the blueish ones personally :wink: As with any breed, go to shows, talk to some breeders and when you decide on getting a pup check out both parents as well as any other family members (when I got Lily I got to see her grandparents and Auntis and all :) ) I know that a dobe may not be a great 'first breed' but it sounds like you've done your research and are prepared for whatever is thrown at you. Good luck in finding the perfect puppy :angel: