Aroura

[quote name='billy_g']those knife wounds may have only been skin deep but he felt them in his poor little heart.[/quote] :cry: :cry: :cry: Oh the poor boy :cry: I can't imagine how the innocent dogs must be feeling when the people they look up to and worship do this sort of thing to them :cry:

Hey if I knew your mums vet I'd give him a pat on the back for the raw suggestion... but Liver... no, no, no, no!!!! :o I would advise your mum to cut out the liver asap!!!! A recent study, done at my own university :wink: , has proven that liver is THE WORST food for crystals!!! What the study actually did show is that a mostly vegetable diet is the best diet for dogs with crystals. It should be a low protein diet and most of the protein should be coming from eggs and cheese, provided the dog isn't allergic to cheese. Beef and Lamb protein is unadvised but, though the studys weren't done with chicken, my bet would be that it would be the best meat to use. Also, one meal late in the evening was the best time to feed them for some reason. Just remember, when feeding veggies to always make sure they are finely pureed. If the dog is a fussy eater I'm not sure how to make her eat the veggies, some dogs naturally love them, Lily is always in the compost heap eating rotton pumpkin and all the veggie scraps we throw out! She even gets into the veggie patch, stands on her hind legs picking apricots from the apricot tree, and eats all the apples that fall from the apple tree :lol: But if she wont eat veggies, try mixing the egg and cheese with it, most dogs can't resist cheese!

Shultz is supposed to have some good basic ideas from memory, but depends alot on supplements. Pitcairn from memory is good, very detailed, as is Volhard. These are just things I've heard, the other books I've never heard of and usually if its not being talked about in the numberous lists I'm in its probably not that good. I would swear by Dr Ian Billinghursts "Give your Dog a Bone", I've heard alot of good results from people using that diet and believe it is simple to read and easy to follow. I have Dr Tom Lonsdales "Raw Meaty Bones" book. Its a good book more on the why feed BARF than the how to... I won to book after joining another forum (lucky me!) but still wish to someday own Dr Billinghursts book as i personally, based on what I've heard, beleive it is the best - the as I always say, you can never be too educated. I'd love to read them all! :D

That was a great post before Goo, pity Hollywood probably wont even acknowledge it!!! Like Malamum, I would like to know where I went wrong with Lily? If you can tell me that I will drop the argument and realise that you really do know what you are talking about. But you can't tell me, can you? Thats because when she was born she was predispositioned to dog aggression - just like your boys most probably are, only you are too ignorant to see that, aren't you? We can all see that, you just only want to see what you are willing to believe and when your boys are on the front page of the paper for killing a familys beloved dog and your dogs are waiting to be put down, who will you blame then? You will only have yourself to blame, because you can't say we didn't warn you.

We've all hear the saying "YOU CAN LEAD A FOOL TO WISDOM BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM THINK"... well, quite obviously Hollywood is a classic example of this! Hollywood, grow up. I would have to strongly agree with what someone said before, that you are an IDIOT!!! You are wasting all of our time on here and quite honestly I've got better things to do than try to talk some sense into someone who isn't even listening, its like talking to a brick wall. I know you havn't been reading anyones posts, you've proved this to us all by continually asking questions that have already been answered like 1000 times over. Its people like you who go about giving this lovely breed a bad name. You don't even care, do you? Just so long as you can have it your way. How old are you? I've met 10 year olds who show a great deal more maturatity than you probably ever will. I've tried to reason with you and actually give valid reasons for what I am saying but you aren't even bothering to read the posts, you are just coming here to stir things up. You are a troll. I'm sure every body here would have to agree that they wouldn't even waste their time talking to you, seeing as you obviously aren't listening, if it wasn't in their hearts to do whats best for the breed, which you quite clearly don't give a shit about!

Glad to hear you are going well. Pumpkin can work wonders! Lily had sloppy stools her whole life, not one firm one, ever. I was on the verge of taking her to the vet when someone suggested pureed pumpkin. Well i tried it and it worked!!! Now that she is used to her new diet though (switched to a mostly raw diet along with the pumpkin, she is now 100% raw) I don't even have to use the pumkin and she is pooping just fine! If she poops at dog training I am never ashamed to pick it up and and actually quite proud to see that her poops are even smaller than those done by the smallest dogs there! Nothing like a bout of diareaha and smelly farts to convince hubby to drop the kibble! You'll find that farts become quite bearable on a BARF diet, you still smell them but they aren't at all bad, just like cooked cauliflower :-? :lol: The deep freezers a good idea, I'm going to buy one for my dogs as soon as I've paid this stupid uni general service fee and am out of debt from buying text books etc. I'm also buying a juicer! That way I can get a little bit out of feeding my dogs a great diet also! They get the pulp and a majority of the juice, I get however much juice I feel like on the day! All those positive changes that you have noticed are fairly typical of the diet, after dropping the kibble you should also notice that his energy is not so hyper active, but more of a healthy energy. I hate to say it, but no pet food company will ever do a study to prove that feeding raw is best. It is so hard to find any studies whatsoever to benifit raw feeding as, up with coffee and oil, the pet food industry is the most profitable industry out there. But, if you like to read and want some evidence to support raw feeding, Dr tom Lonsdale has a book called "Raw Meaty Bones" which publishes some studies that he has done with some quite astonishing results. But guess what? The veterinary magazines would never publish any of them because they are too busey covering the pet food industrys butt. So there you go, proof that we are left in the dark from the truth, the pet food industry is so powerful that they wont allow anything that might make them seem bad to ever be published. I may join that K9nutrition list, I've already joined about three other lists but I guess you can never be too educated!

Glad to hear things are going well for you. You will definatly notice a change in muscle bulk. My Kelpie/Pit cross mut like dog (hehe - Tessa :wink: ) has always been physically slightly more kelpie like, but since the switch if it weren't for her markings I'd almost swear she was a full blood Pit! And even the poodle/chihuahua has stacked on the muscles! Just a note on vit C - dogs synthesise their own so there is no need to add it. And vit E - there is plenty in raw meat so there is not much point there either unless your dog is getting alot of rancid fat, in which case they do need additional vit E. Try to keep the offal to around 10% of the total intake, otherwise the diet may well be too rich and have an excess in certain vitamins. Once you make the total switch and ditch the dry food completely I swear you will never lood back :D I've had a look at the Dane Ladys page in the past and though it did have some good points I remember there were some things she said that I really disagreed with. If you havn't already seen it, an excellent page is [url]http://www.barfers.com/[/url] Well all I have left to say is I hope you get as much out of feeding BARF and I am with my gang! :wink:

There is no better tooth cleaner than a good raw bone!!! Even kibble is bad for teeth and studies have shown it doesn't do anything for cleaning and can in fact get stuck between teeth and cause periodontal disease. Especially for those with little dogs, I strongly reccommend recreational bones as small breeds are especially prone to periodontal disease. As well as cleaning teeth and massaging gums the chewing of bones releases a kind of "natural happy chemical" in the brain to keep dogs not only healthy, but happy as well! :D

Just my two cents.... Bones, so long as fed raw, are the most natural food you can feed a dog. Only cooked bones cause obstructions. Fat trimmings in moderation are fine, as common sence would tell us that moderation is the key. Yoghurts great, I think we all agree on that!!! So long as your dog isn't allergic to it :) Garlic in small doses is fine, though large doses can be toxic. It is the member of the same family as onions, but is tolerated a lot more than onions are. It is true that egg white contains avidin that depletes biotin, but the yolk contains enough biotin to make up for the depletion and more. Pet food companys are just holding on to this myth because so many people will believe it! I've heard of people who will feed just a whole egg, without crushing the shell, anybody heard of this? :o Certain species of fished caught in certain areas of the world, if fed raw, deplete thiamine. Most fish aren't a problem. Personally, at $20kg I can't afford to feed my dogs raw fish anyway! "String" - well DUH!!!! Table scraps can actually make up a fairly largish part of the diet provided they are healthy. Problem in this house is that there is never any leftovers!!!! :P

Oh, and the French Bulldog!!!! Chinese Crested, Shar Pei, Chow, Akita and I'd have to agree.... the Mutt!!! :D

I agree 100% with Malamum, all the training and socialisation in the world does not neccissarilly stop a dog from becoming aggressive - wouldn't it be a perfect world if that were the case? Oh I know this for a fact by the way, after my Boxer went through months of quite serious dog aggression problems that thankfully she is getting over now. Ok, imagine the first time she showed these problems, lets change the picture a little bit. Now instead of one Boxer at dog training, on a lead, lets say there are two Pits, off lead, instead. Now everything is fine and dandy, you have never had a problem before, therefore you never will. Right? Wrong!!!! Ok, so these dogs are playing happilly, tails wagging like always when suddenly something terrible and completely unforseen happens.... a massive fight breaks out! So picture this, instead of a boxer onlead we now have two pits with that fighting type body that they have been bred for for countless generations on top of another dog, hey, maybe the owner is even too far away or two scared to help break up the fight, so what are you going to do? Pull two psycho Pits out of an all out fight? Hey, if your dogs have all always been so perfect, how would you even know how to break up a fight? Let alone one with three dogs, two being one of the most toughest dogs known to mankind. Hey, just to make it more interesting, what if the other dog just happend to be a Pit who's owner thought their dog would be "ok" at the park, after all, they've never had any problems before, have they? I hope you are really listening to this, because this one day may well be you, what are you going to do then? I just hate when people only listen to what they want to hear!!! :evil:

Good to see some more converts!!! I'm with Alicat in that I don't neccessarilly reccommend one style over another, I've seen good results with many different styles. Personally I stay away from any form of grains, the dogs have plenty of energy without it. Just keep in mind that variety is the spice of life and if you do decide to supplement or add herbs etc that it is not neccissary to do so every day, a few times a week is fine. As for the runs, you can expect it to take a few days for a dogs digestive system to adjust to their new, healthy diet. Soon enough though you will find their stools are much smaller and less smelly than ever before! :D

[quote name='Deez']The poor thing!!! :o I have a phobia to all needles :o :o[/quote] Ahem... ummm, its not a needle.... :o Actually reminds me of a few days ago when I was going to brush Puddles... went to grab the brush and just grabbed the nearest thing to where the brush always is. Well Puddles had a little look of shock in her eye when she saw me standing over her with a THERMOMETER in my hand!!!! LOL, she was safe, I'll save taking the dogs temperature to the vet!!! :lol:

Hollywood, I would like to say that its great to hear that you are socialising your dogs and that they are going well BUT everyone here does have a point and they are not having a go at either you or your dogs but are trying to help you by preventing a tragedy that we could all do without. Socialisation is vital for all dogs, but when you are working with a potential time bomb just waiting to go off you should get your prioritys straight! Take the dogs to training, that way they can socialise on lead in a controlled environment. Having two dogs only makes matters worse. Not only do numbers give that "pack mentality" which leads to dogs becoming more likely to attack, but, if one was to attack the other would, under any circumstances, join the fight and together there is a high probability that they would kill the other dog. I don't know many dogs that, if attacked by another dog, would simply back down or run away. If another dog were to challange one of yours and they both joined into the fight what would happen? Which dog would the media claim was the instigator? Yours of course!!! And how would that help the breed? It wouldn't, the headlines "Two Pit Bulls Kill Family Dog" would say it all. Is that what you want? Honestly, we are not trying to attack you, we are trying to help you.

Congratulations, you must be so proud! Lily's jealous, but at the same time drooling over him. She wants to know when he's catching his private jet to visit her on his tours now that he is famous? :lol: Yes, we will join the Kato fan club!!!! :angel:

Oh that is soo cute!!! :lol:

[quote name='HazelNutMeg'](oh, and of course I'll use the pic of Lilly! She's such a sweetheart!)[/quote] Aww shucks, thanks Shara :oops:

HAHA!!!!!!! Sorry, can't help but laugh :lol: I can just imagine that, its never happend to me but I'm sure if it did I would laugh again. It reminds me of the story about the chicken head found in those Macca's chicken nuggets all that time ago! Oh well, just think of all those extra nutrients she will be getting from it!!! :lol:

I hear your pain, there are ALOT of dogs allowed to roam free here, some of them aren't a problem, they just stick to their front yard and mind their own business, but others will chase you down the street and with a dog like Lily it can be hard to keep her under control sometimes. Aside from notifying the pound there isn't really much you can do unfortunatly. I'm buying Lily a halti collar, although that wont get rid of the problem it will at least save my arm!

Its ok, I forgive you. I understand you must be feeling emotionally unstable. I am very sorry for the loss of your chairs, I hope you can find new ones to provide you with as much comfort and support as the old ones did... Remember, its OK to cry :wink:

You definatly have to include the boxer!!! You can even put Lilys pic if you like :D [img]http://home.austarnet.com.au/creamy_pumkin/Dogs/Lily/Lily1.jpg[/img] or [img]http://home.austarnet.com.au/creamy_pumkin/Dogs/Lily/LilyTie.jpg[/img] :angel: Another breed I love (and will get one day, in the not too near future!) is the Pappilion - I love that breed! And they are just so cute and fluffy, but what drew me to them is that they are easier to train than most toy breeds, aren't too common and are great in agility and fly ball :D

Oh you had me real worried for a second there!!!! :lol: Oh well, RIP chairs :cry:

Oh my, Milva is absolutly GORGEOUS!!!! I'm not much of a small dog person, but I must say, Milva is stunning. :D I want a Milva!!!!! :lol:

[quote name='mydogroxy'][color=darkred]I suggest you report her breeders to authoritys so you can save other maybe less responsible people from the problems you are having, as well as saving the dogs that are already there. [/color] the aspca was already notified (by someone else) of the situation, but his dogs are in good condition so no action was taken.[/quote] [color=darkred][size=6]Grrrrrr!!!!!!![/size][/color] THAT MAKES ME SO ANGRY!!! :evil: If he fights his dogs what does it matter what sort of condition they are in? He is still adding to the unsightly deaths each day that dogs in the pit must face, oh, plus he's BREEDING more to add to the trade!!!! Maybe you could report him again? Don't give up because someone else tried and failed, if you know you are right you should fight it! The more people who make complaints about him the more likely something is going to be done about it. As for putting her to sleep, definatly do all you can to make sure it can't be trained out of her before even contemplating putting her to sleep, otherwise you may never forgive yourself for it :cry:

Courtneck, I was just going to say that! Slightly under weight dogs live longer and are healthier than other dogs. Dogpaddle, don't let her get to you, she wont be so cocky when her dog is at the vet with heart desease, diabetes and joint problems.