Horsefeathers!

[quote name='dogwhisperer']Would you all mind talking to Roo regarding the last few posts please. This is not what you are thinking and your asumations are way off base. I would appreciate it if you would speak to her and clear this up once and for all. How many people are in your house using your computer(s)? Thank you.[/quote] Forget it. I thought maybe she was just ignorant and in need of some guidance and "tough love," HF style. Turns out it's just a p*ssing contest and she intends to be right, no matter the cost. Hardly worth the time or effort except for the worry of animals left in her care. It would appear that she's too busy feeling sorry for herself and feeling like [i][b]she[/i][/b] is the victim here to see the bigger picture. We can work on ignorance. Not much we can do about blatant apathy... can't [b]make[/b] someone care. :( Ebby, if you indeed wanted some help, we've tried. Just because no one is telling you what it is you want to hear, it doesn't mean it's not an attempt to help just the same. Just call it tough love, Doggie.... errrr Dogo style. 8)

Belle is beautiful! I can't remember the last time I had only ONE dog in the house. :-? I can do rats (I actually used to raise gerbils... rescued a pair from the shelter, believe it or not, and had the only gerbil to ever be neutered in this area :lol: ). However, I can NOT do birds. Parakeets? Eeeek! I'm a closet bird-o-phobe. I'm even scared of chickens (and grew up on a farm!). :oops:

I have no doubt that you will be back to read the responses. It's human nature. Kind of like a bad wreck... you don't want to see it, but you look, anyway. You may not have the fortitude to respond, but you will be reading. That said, I am going to say this... Speaking for myself, my sole intent was to make you stop and THINK. If it takes p*ssing you off to do it, that's great. Often, a p*ssed off person will take action. Just a little insight... I've been where you are. Horror of horrors, before I knew any better, I bought not one, but TWO pet store puppies. Spent a fortune on them. Cute as heck, but the one is a structural monstrosity and the other has a vile temperament and awful allergies. Worse, I planned to BREED these dogs because soooooooo many people kept telling me what gee golly cute puppies they'd have and also CHA CHING what kind of money I could make selling them. Sure, I adored these dogs, but heck, all they had to do was a little hubba hubba and we were all set. I had no clue that there could possibly be any risk. Heck, when I was a kid, our ol' yard dog popped out puppies every year with no problem (in hindsight, I remember as a kid losing a Kees in whelp). As far as I knew, it was just "normal." I cringe now as I write this. I made the holy moly mistake (turned out to be the best thing that could have happened) of casually mentioning this on another forum several years ago. If you think we were rough on you, you should have seen the almighty butt whoopin' I took. These people were ruthless and raked me over the coals like you wouldn't believe. I was angry. Boy, was I p*ssed! However, it planted the seed. I got past anger and began reading and talking to rescue people and show people. The more I learned, the more I realized these people did me and the potential future offspring of these dogs a huge favor. Fortunately, it was before there were any puppies produced. Anyway, I have been where you are. Now I'm on the other side, involved in rescue, and I LOATHE people like the person I used to be. Of course, I was ignorant. I learned. I still say that it's one thing to not know. It's even worse to know and not care. I am still a member of that forum and now get along great with those same people I thought were such jackasses. It was not about just "attacking" you, personally, but your naive outlook. There are hundreds of dog forums out there if that's what you want. It sounds more like you are looking for affirmation than advice and honesty. You seem to want someone to just tell you that you are right and to go for it. If that's what you're looking for, good luck. There are forums like that... they just tell you what you want to hear. Blah. Anyway, talk to some Golden Retriever rescue people. Many of the folks involved in breed specific rescues are breeders/exhibitors, themselves, who also do rescue work because they genuinely love their chosen breed. They know the ins and outs of the business (for lack of a better word) of breeding. If money is your primary motivation, nothing anyone can say is going to change your mind. However, if by some stroke of luck, you are a compassionate soul, just maybe that seed has been planted for you, too, and you will leave this breeding thing to the people who are educated in the genetics, diseases, health and what it takes to improve, or at least sustain, the breed. At the very least, maybe you will learn what it takes to be responsible. It's much more than just throwing two dogs together and collecting money. It should be, anyway. You are already admitting that you don't know much about this dog except what the previous owner has told you and you still seem unsure as to how to interpret that. You are still welcome to hang around and anyone here, I'm sure, would be willing to help you in any way we can, but you have to understand (speaking for myself here) that I am totally honest and upfront. I do not say things just because it's what someone wants to hear. If you want links to exhibitors, rescues, etc., just say the word. I'm not anti-breeding. I'm anti-irresponsibility. Don't just look for justification for what you WANT to do. Dig a little deeper and you may just find that you can be happy with a $2000 [b]pet[/b] Golden Retriever. You may not respond, but you will read this. PM me if you feel you can't post and I will gladly pass along links to RESPONSIBLE Golden Retriever breeders, rescues, etc. I still want to believe you are just ignorant (not meant to be in the derogatory sense) and not just apathetic. Call me an optimistic cynic...

Fortunately, *whew* that's what I did this morning and then just pasted it into my reply tonight. Well, saved it to notepad, anyway. If I hadn't, I'd have been so screwed and had to retype all that over again. I finally learned. :x Here's a nice little PM I just got from Miss Ebby. How cute and so articulate. She took the time to address me personally and tried to ever so eloquently state her position. She said simply, "kiss my arse...you have no idea what you are talkin about ...as usual" <<< :lol: Note to self... I think Ebby and GoneToTheDogs are one and the same....

Hey, Sasha, thanks! I know I'm not the only one and I do get soooo mad at people just breeding dogs leisurely with no regard as to what happens to the offspring. I totally overlooked the notion that the one person thinks I breed my dogs. Nopers, I'm too busy raising and rehabilitating unwanted animals. You know.... the results of irresponsible breeders. Absolutely maddening. :x Lol, as for my computer, it's still kind of wonky. I originally typed my reply first thing this morning and it wouldn't go. Did it again this evening and it took several attempts to get it in there. This was one I just had to keep trying and trying at... :lol:

[quote name='GonetotheDOGS']I have to say that I have read the posts here and have gone back and read the ones reffered to herein and I find it apalling that someone in this forum can't post without being "beaten up" by another member. It sounds as though a simple question was taking way to far by a reader who felt they had the right to attack when they [b]don't[/b]. No one that cares enough for their animals to come online and inquire for their health, safety and general well being deserves to be attacked for doing something that is so obviously hard for them to do in the first place and was only done for the well being of the animal. I hope for Ebby's sake that at least some of you were supportive because they obviously found giving their dog up to be a hard thing to do. From the readings I gather that their reason for 'rehoming' their dog, as they put it, was not in favour of a new one, but out of fear for the animal's safety. I cant say I would have done any different. And honestly, if I bought a $2000 dog I would hope to breed it as well [b]There went your credibility[/b]. They arent raising the puppies [b]therefore no interest?! What's the point here?![/b], they arent selling them to pet stores. They simply want to allow breeders the opportunity to use him if they have interest - their reasons are besides the point [b]no responsible breeder would EVER say such a thing... only those out to make a buck[/b]-what is any breeders reasons? There is nothing wrong with that if they are providing a loving and caring environment for the animal [b]Yoo hoo... and what about this animal's offspring?[/b]. And anyone who would part with an animal they obviously love for the animal's well being - despite how much it hurts them cannot be providing an unhealthy environment for animals if you ask me. Any breeders out there do not know what happens to ALL of their puppies. Look in other sections of this forum where pictured of mutilated dogs are and tell me you are all 100% sure that has never happened to ANY of your bred animals. And isnt EVERY breeder doing what they do for profit? [b]Absolutely NOT!! You obviously only know the millers and bybs[/b] It is rare, NO practically unheard of, to find a breeder who is breeding simply to keep the breed going. [b]This is so far off base... h*ll, I'm actually speechless that anyone could say this with a straight face.[/b] In my opinion Ebby is doing nothing wrong and anyone who is willing to 'beat up' another member of this post in public forum had better look after their own animals before attacking someone else who is so obviously an animal lover and caring owner. [b]My own animals are JUST fine, thanks for inquiring.[/b][/quote] Tell you what... tell me what kind of rescue work you do and how you are affiliated with the shelters? What are YOU doing to make a difference? I get to see EVERY SINGLE STINKING day the results of irresponsible breeding. My interests are not with the touchy feely emotions of the owners. My interests are with the unfortunate results of these breeders. I couldn't give a tinker's d@m if you spent $2000 or $2mil on a dog. A responsible breeder would not have to come to a dog forum looking for a mate for their dog, nor would they state that they need to "recoup" the money spent on a dog. So we have another someone who places monetary value above anything else with these animals? How sad. Another hit and run puff 'n fluff poster. Gee golly, all that sounds nice, but is so far out in left field, it's ridiculous. Call it attacking if you want to. A forum is used to exchange ideas and opinions and they don't always coincide. Just because I strongly disagree does not mean I do not have the right to state my opinion which, by the way, is shared by several who chose not to come forward. Again, my interests are with the resulting puppies. $2000 is in no way a guarantee that this dog is fit to be bred. It only means that another sucker was born at that exact moment.

[quote name='EBBY']you are adorable! Firstly, I posted the ad regarding how to meet people wanting to use himBEFORE the breeder informed me she already had some people lined up who were interested in him. [b]But you STILL came here originally looking for a mate for him... which speaks volumes for your intentions.[/b] Secondly - you can call spades whatever you want but I had a neighbour THREATEN Jazz because of his barking and he was only rehomed for his own well being....if I hadnt rehomed him and he had been (god forbid) poisoned or something you would have been on here blaming me for his death for not thinking of him first and rehoming him when the old man threatened him harm.... [b]Want to talk about barking and neighbors? My neighbors are as crappy as neighbors come, but I have EIGHT yapping, barking, obnoxious dogs that stay INSIDE when I can't monitor them.[/b] THIRDLY, Jazz had accidents in our house a few times and it never occured to me to rehome him until he was threatened. So no, Rip isnt going anywhere. AND YES if there is opportunity to make back the mega bucks this dog cost me and the MEGA BUCKS I lost in finding Jazz a good home and not SELLING him even for what he cost us when we bought him (not ignoring the ruined furniture he ate, the ruined carpet he had 'accidents' on when he wasnt feeling well, the leather jacket he used as a chew toy, the scratches he left on the side of our BRAND NEW van when he wanted to go for a car ride etc etc - the list is a lot longer if you include the kids toys they left laying around) then YES I will stud him out....for petes sake, what do you think he was doing before I bought him? With his pedigree the breeder I bought him from made much more off of him than it cost her to purchase him and fly him out here....he has a family now and he is loved and cared for...and if I want to allow a breeder to buy some of his sperm so be it....call me what you want but you dont know me or my animals. [b]And where were YOU when these grievances occurred that the dog was ultimately evicted for?[/b] AND this is supposed to be a forum for information right? Well, I've never thought of allowing my dogs to be used for breeding purposes before and I think I have as much right as anyone else around here to ask how to go about doing it....WITHOUT being judged for inquiring. You all complain about other forums and how they treat people....HORSEFEATHERS, perhaps you should consider going to those other forums - your attitude would fit in well there [b]I've not said a word about other forums, first thing, and TRUST ME, from the pm's I've gotten, I'm not the only one cringing at what you are doing... I'm just the only one who SPOKE it[/b]....MOST people on here have been informative and helpful. THAT is what my understanding of this forum was. And quite frankly, if you spent [b]$2000 [/b]on a dog (like we just did) and found that breeders were interested in him can you HONESTLY say you wouldnt go there? WHATEVER!!![b]I know enough not to spend $2000 on a dog with no clue as to what to do with him once I got him, but yeah, I can say I'd certainly NOT go there. Again, one of my dogs came from a MAJOR show kennel with an awesome background and STILL ended up in a rescue.[/b] FYI - Jazz wasnt SOLD because of all the people inquiring about him, I felt it was worth it to HIM and the one family that I felt would give him the best home and the most attention if it wasnt a "business deal". I wasnt rehoming him for financial gain or even to make back what we had lost, I was rehoming him because I loved him and was afraid for his safety.[b]Is this the dog you had one home lined up for, that didn't work out, so you let your vet's office find him a home? That was you, right?[/b] WE ARE NOT afraid for this ones safety for three reasons...he is an inside dog who doesnt go out without myself or my husband, he has been trained not to eat anything given him by anyone other than his owners AND he doesnt bark. Jazz on the other hand had a very thick coat, preffered the outdoors the majority of the time, ate everything in sight and barked constantly [b]I have EIGHT dogs with various "issues." Almost ALL of them are rescues from people who dumped (or whatever word you prefer) them. Want to talk about barking and neighbors? Bring 'em on.[/b] PLEASE dont accuse me of 'dumping' my dog [b]A spade is still a spade[/b]. It killed me that he had to go...but I have been to where he is since (just up the road) and he is in a good home and he is very very happy. If I didnt love him as much as I do, he would still be here despite the threats. I couldve kept him on the off chance nothing was going to happen, but what if it did, WHO is responsible then? YOU HORSEFEATHERS? Would YOU take responsibility for his death or terrible illness? [b]Actually, you're d@amn right I'm responsible. It's why I've chosen to keep them safe with me and out of trouble. With my eight obnoxious barking brats, there is nothing anyone can tell me about ONE barking dog that would make me believe it was bad enough to get rid of it if it's not what you wanted to do, anyway.[/b] If this was you horsefeathers, I'd hate to see what your poor dog would go through if he was hurt because YOU had a point to prove....[b]My poor dogs are still here with me, not thrown out, dumped, rehomed, or whatever word makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, because I as a responsible owner could not control them.[/b] It is my choice whether or not to desex my dog. [b]You are right. It IS a choice. Unfortunately, it's the forthcoming puppies that will be the ones to suffer as a result of YOUR irresponsibility. Hopefully, they will ALL go to homes where they will be trained properly and not passed from owner to owner. Then again, once you have your stud fee, recouping your money from this expensive beast, it won't be your problem, anymore, will it? No, it'll be the problem of people like ME who have to deal with the fallout from irresponsible breeding practices. It's one thing not to know. It's another thing to know and not care. Justify it anyway you want. A spade is still a spade.[/b][/quote]

[quote name='EBBY']Id rather not. There is a lot of interest in using him as a stud. And it was one of the things that attracted us to him - the fact that we could recoup some of the money we spent on him with stud fees.[/quote] I can't help it. I wasn't going there; my lips were sealed~~~>> :o , but... A lot of interest in studding him out? Earlier you were asking how you could generate interest and find da hos, errrrr I mean the bitches for him. If there was soooo much interest in him, you wouldn't have to come to a dog forum and ask how to find him a mate. The thing that broke my silence is "recoup some of the money we spent on him..." Nothing p*sses me off worse than someone making a dog "earn its keep." If everyone thought like that, none of us would have our dogs spayed or neutered. No, we'd all just be breeding them to death trying to recoup some of the money we have tied up in them. My Lab recently had hip surgery. That was pretty expensive. Maybe I should have bred him to recover that. My Standard Poodle who, by the way, is descended from a Westminster BIS champion.... he's having major stomach surgery in a couple of weeks. Maybe I should have kept him intact so that I could recover some of what THAT is going to cost me and, hey, while I'm thinking about it, that adoption fee was pretty hefty. You know how those rescues are only in it for the money n' stuff. I tried to stay out of it when you DUMPED your first dog in favor of this one (justify it any way you want, but a spade is a spade) and then I saw you post on another thread about how you feel about your responsibility for your dogs and, gosh, that's a responsibility you take SERIOUSLY. I'm wondering how long it will be before you dump this dog if he doesn't stop peeing in the house. Nope, I tried to stay out of this, but you just keep throwing this trash out there and I cannot continue to sit back and be oblivious to such blatant irresponsibility. Again, justify it any way you wish, but a spade is still a spade. Good luck with your money maker. Good reason to breed a dog. The term backyard breeder doesn't ONLY apply to people with bitches. Take it any way you want to.

If this has been covered, please forgive me, but I only kind of scanned through the past posts on this thread (I'm doing good just to sit up... my ear [u]really[/u] hurts :-? ). I have lots and lots and lots and lots and... (you see where this is going) lots of photos of each of my eight dogs. Most people like to have photos made of their pets looking their best. I have those, too, but I also have several photos of each of them in various states of disarray. Photos of anything from them being freshly groomed to being downright uuuuuuuugly and desperately in need of a groom. I don't know about anyone else, but my dogs don't look freshly groomed 100% of the time. If one of them were to ever go missing, a split photo showing them in their recently groomed state and then looking a bit disheveled could be valuable in identifying a dog as it can often look like two entirely different dogs. Glad to see you participating, Andrew. :)

Andrew, I do feel much better that you did take the time to come back and check in with us. Lol, you are definitely NOT the first person to call me cynical. It is another of the badges of wear. I am part of the management of another forum that has several thousand members and we too often see people join up just to post an ad and then disappear. You are right in that I did not take ANY time to check your website since the original post looked like a spam ad, though a well laid out one. I didn't care to read any further. That's just that ol' cynic in me. Anyway, stick around and talk with us. I may indeed check out your site since you now have a more "human" persona (as opposed to a cold advertiser). There are always things to learn. It would be nice if you stuck around here and offered any input you may have on the different topics that come up. We are all here basically because we care for the well being of our pets and pets in general and I'm glad you seem to feel the same way. Peace 8) From a very cynical Horsefeathers! (You say cynical like it's a bad thing. :lol: )

Guest_Someone_Forgot_To_Sign_In, I'm not disputing the original poster's thoughts and ideas. Of course, it offers something to think about. I offered a friendly invitation for him to share stories and pictures of his dogs and was not at all insulting or inflammatory in my demeanor. However, I do tend to feel somewhat insulted when someone wraps a spam ad in a neat little warm and fuzzy post, feigning interest in this forum. I still extend a sincere invitation for Andrew to come and join in our conversations and offer his insight. Who knows? If he is as knowledgeable as he is articulate, I may be first in line to buy his book.

Hi, welcome and all that. Just one question, so please forgive me, but I'm just going to throw it right out there. Would you like to talk about your dogs, or are you here just to promote your book? It looks suspiciously like a long spam ad and nothing makes me run further in the opposite direction. Please tell us a little about YOUR dogs. Stories? Pictures? We'd love to see them.

Oh, everything's a'ight! I'd never stomp off in a huff just because of a minor difference of opinion. One thing I know is that we both have the welfare of the dogs at heart. :D

Very goodly, Hobbit! :D Glad to see another SUCKER errrrrrrrr I mean dedicated dog lover on board... :lol:

[quote name='Hobbit'][quote name='eggrolyn1223'][b]OMG! kEEP THEM in cages all their life?????????Relive themselves in CAGES??? [/b][/quote] :-?[/quote] Me, too, Hobbit... :o

Fernanda, please don't think I am attacking you, or questioning your intent. It's not really even about you, personally, per se, but about the dogs that I see where people choose them because they think they are beautiful and don't take other things into consideration (we haven't even touched on the grooming that will be required... lol, hope you like opening the freezer and finding hair in your ice :lol: ). I never meant to offend anyone with the barking comment... only relaying my experiences with the breed and others' I have talked to as well. Doesn't make me an authority, nor do I claim to be. Again, please don't be offended, or take it personally. I am just still reeling from the fact that someone else recently dumped their dog because of a barking problem and I didn't think it was too inappropriate to at least bring it into consideration, especially by you living in such close quarters with other people. Good luck.

Nah, Hobbit, let it ride. I'm kind of disappointed in myself for jumping back into this. I keep trying to just stay out of it.

Also, I am surprised that no one has asked WHY the original poster decided on a Sheltie. That's a pertinent question. Some people choose a dog for looks alone ("I want a Cocker Spaniel because they are soooooo beautiful!"). I was just wondering what it is about Shelties that Fernanda likes.

Ickle, it isn't just me. Sorry if I offended you, but even on many other forums, from groomers to pet owners to pet sitters, when Shelties are mentioned, it's almost followed by a comment on their vocal nature. I'm certainly not trying to "harm" a breed, but I do still believe that some breeds are more predisposed to some behaviors than others. For example, I know that Pit Bulls get a bad rap, BUT I am also aware that they do tend to be dog aggressive. I am not offended by that. Doesn't mean ALL Pit Bulls, but as a breed, they can be. Just one obvious example. I would think that a lover of any breed would want to be sure that any new prospective owners would be fully capable of dealing with any [u]potential[/u] problems that may arise. That's the reason I said it could be ANY breed; just happened to be talking about Shelties. With this person living in an apartment, it's imperative that they have a plan of action in case there is barking behavior, regardless of whether it's a Sheltie or any other breed. I've seen far too many people with grand images of what training entails and, for whatever reason, it fails, whether it's the training, lack of commitment on an owner's part, or lack of funds (no one has ever started out saying, "ok, I'll try this training thing, but only if it's cheap, easy and quick." No one ever intends to fail.). Here's what is at the heart of this for me and maybe you'll understand where I am coming from... I don't know if you've been following the boards lately, but someone here recently got rid of their dog in favor of a new one (sorry, poster) because they claimed that the barking behavior couldn't be trained out of the dog. I just do not want to see another dog dumped.... errrr rehomed because someone "couldn't" train them properly ("I tried everything and nothing worked!"). I'm sorry that in this case, the breed we are discussing happens to be a Sheltie, but I do not want to see a Sheltie a year from now looking for another home all because someone started out with good intentions and a cheerleading squad telling them that training would fix everything. I just want them to THINK about it and be realistic and think of how they will handle the situation [u]just in case[/u]. To be fair, this should be with any breed, but since we were talking about Shelties... Please accept my apologies for offending you for it was truly not my intention, but there is a much bigger issue here than whether or not Shelties are vocal.

Actually, we did have him on glucosamine prior to surgery... mega doses of it for quite a while. The problem with Tucker was that his dysplasia was to the point that his femoral head had almost backed all the way out of its socket. There was basically no joint left. He has some old damage where his femur was broken and healed way wrong (partially causing the problem of the socket going all wonky) and also a fracture in his pelvis on the other side that healed badly. His whole back end was so screwed up that we feared having to put him down. We never knew anything about these old injuries until we had him xrayed when he began limping and by then, they were all healed, but wrong. He was really lame for a while and he's always been such an energetic go getter. The FHO surgery is showing some success and all we are really trying to do is alleviate some of his pain and gimpyness (hey, another technical word). Anyhoo, we do still have him on glucosamine. The vet figures it can't hurt.

My own Lab had FHO surgery a couple of months ago, also. He, too, is recovering remarkably well and though he still isn't 100%, he shows improvement every day. I would think that your questions would be best answered by your vet. I don't mean this in the generic once answer fits all sense, but I'm just thinking that there are so many ways that hips can go geeky (my scientific term here) and so many degrees of success and recovery. Where one dog may be 110% better, another may only have marginal success. See what I'm getting at? I do know that my vet said that this was the only(?) orthopedic surgery where as much use as possible is recommended immediately following surgery and the more it's used, the better they recover. Sounds odd, huh? Anyway, sorry I can't directly answer your question, but I'm just thinking that it would have to be a case by case thing. Your dog may be better than new, or only slightly better. Your vet should be able to give you a better idea of what kind of recovery to expect. With Tucker (my Lab), we were only trying to go for some pain relief and don't expect him to be 100% as there is more damage to his pelvis that can't be repaired. Good luck and keep us updated.

[quote name='Aroura'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']Where's Aroura when you need her? :lol: [size=6][color=green][b]CALLING AROURA![/b][/color][/size][/quote] Horsefeathers does have a point though, BARF very well may not be for all dogs, some dogs don't have as strong an immune system as others, so I can see your point too. One question though, you say you supplement your dogs diet with cooked meat, do you also supplement with Veggies? And if you do, do you cook them or feed them raw? Just curious.... [/quote] No, Aurora, not just cooked meat. A cooked [u]diet[/u]. I do not believe dogs are strictly carnivorous and needing mostly meat (protein) to be healthy (actually, too much protein is UNhealthy), so I don't just give them cooked meat. What I give them in regard to diet other than Wellness is pretty much the same stuff I eat sans the obvious no-no's. I also have to say this, or I'll burst. You're dead wrong about it only being a SMALL number of dogs who get sick, or injured, from BARF. If you can show me this from an objective source, I'll take it into consideration (please nothing from a BARF source... that would make it biased). I also have recently been seeing where several dogs have become ill from LONGTERM use of this diet. Immune disorders, major organ failures, etc. from folks who meant well and followed the sites and books instead of seeking [b]objective[/b] advice. I just don't get what you mean about biased studies. I'm looking for objectivity here. Again, BARF sites are not objective. They're there to promote the diet, NOT to take outside research into consideration. That is not objective. Also, I know that there are now many variations of "BARF" out there now and everyone is sure that theirs is the right one. Just the way that all commercial diets are not the same, all BARF diets are not the same. I'll just leave it at that. It just breaks my heart that so many well meaning folks take the BARF proponents at their word instead of doing [u]objective[/u] research. It's out there and it isn't just a small number of dogs getting ill and injured. I was made to feel like I was in such a small minority with my dog until I learned otherwise and, believe me, it's not the BARF folks who will tell you otherwise. Again, I am not trying to influence anyone to do anything except to DO THE HOMEWORK OBJECTIVELY, not just follow the BARF sites and books. If it HAS to be fed raw, I think Newfiemom is the only one here well read and well researched enough to pull it off successfully and even she avoids the bones. Sorry. :(

Errrrr.... can I interject something here? Hopefully, this will not offend anyone. I adore Shelties. All of them I have ever known have been wonderful little dogs with amazing personalities. My vet has one he adores. However, as mentioned above, most of them (I have ever known) have been pretty vocal. Anyhoo, the thing I'm getting at is this... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be sure you have a back up plan [u]just in case[/u] your new Sheltie doesn't have his/her vocal nature trained away and since you will be living in such close proximity to other people who may not be dog lovers. Since someone on the board recently got rid of their dog because he barked too much, I just want you to please consider the possibility that you just may have a barker (ok, could be any breed, just for the sake of argument) and how you will handle it if it isn't trained out. I just don't want to see another dog looking for a new home because of barking, regardless of how well intentioned and optimistic one is about the training.

Some knobheads thought it would be a good idea to move their "kennels" from Anchorage, Alaska to Arizona, so they loaded up 171 dogs, mostly Collies, and 11 cats onto a 40 semi trailer and off they went. Here... read the story. It's amazing how stupid and careless some people can be. :x [url]http://www.adn.com/front/story/2090675p-2187678c.html[/url] [url]http://www.goldentrianglenews.com/display/inn_shelby_promoter/news/news1.txt[/url]

No, Sasha, not leaving... more like tossed out on my butt. :-? I have kept checking back and still had problems, but today seems to show more promise. Some of the disappearing posts seem to have returned. Of course, I may be still missing some somewhere, but today looks better. Did I sound like a whiny thing? "Waaaaaaahhhhh, I can't join; what to do, what to do?!" :oops: I'd never walk away from a good debate (the ol' "you people make me sick; I'm outa here" thing), but computer problems that have me wielding blunt instruments and standing over my computer do tend to make me take a virtual time out. I ain't got money fer a new one and those anger management courses weren't all they were cracked up to be, ya know? :-?