Horsefeathers!

[quote name='laduenda']Well I genuinly think that these people have NEVER seen a well cared for dog that was chained. [/quote] Well, for once, you're right. I have NEVER seen a well cared for dog that is chained. "Well cared for dog that is chained" would actually be considered an oxymoron, IMO. The rest of that post read to me something like... "Blah blah blah people do worse things... blah blah blah who needs fencing... blah mumble mutter... who needs training when you can just chain them up... blah blah blah..." People can and will say ANYTHING to justify what they want to do. Pedophiles and people involved in domestic violence often rationalize that they only molest/beat/abuse their victims because they "love" them. Kinda like people who believe that they "love" their dogs enough to "keep them safe" by chaining them (and we are talking about a lifetime on a chain... not as in a temporary solution). Go figure what people will come up with to justify doing what they want to do.

Courtnek, grapes and raisins in general are toxic in large amounts, regardless of seeds or seedless. Since the term "large amounts" can be so variable depending on the dogs, it is best, IMO, to leave them out. There are several documented reports of dogs being "poisoned" by grapes and raisins.

I have a problem with ANY dog that is confined to one space with little mobility/social interaction. It's just as wrong, to me, for a dog to be confined 24/7 in a 6' x 8' pen as it is to keep them chained up. However, pointing out "wrongs" doesn't make keeping a dog on a chain any more "right," IMO. I can even see where it might be a short term solution in some circumstances, but a dog should not have to spend its entire life on a chain any more than it should have to spend its entire life in a pen. I don't care how it's validated ("...but I walk him occasionally," "I do go outside and feed him and pet him every night..." "my neighbors' dogs are in a filthy pen... my dog is chained to a nice clean tree..." "...but I pick up the poop and it doesn't get muddy at all...").

[quote name='K']Oh Shoot HF :o ...I got a shoe, a rolled up newspaper and a cattle prod all ready to go just on your advice there! :D[/quote] :lol:

I just realized that I haven't read all the way back through these posts to know who all has offered what, so if my offer isn't doable, then I'll just say I can offer to drive anywhere within the state of Georgia and part of Alabama or Tennessee if needed, depending on the route this goes.

I could meet Sasha just inside of GA (would be about 30-45 miles north of Tallahassee, FL... just 12 miles into the GA line) and go from there to Birmingham, AL. If someone could take it from Birmingham, AL to, say, Memphis, TN and then someone else from Memphis to, say, Kansas City, MO/KS, it actually looks like the rest of the trip would be a feasible drive for the new owner? Is it doable?

Sorry, Kaleb, if I came across wrong. I was being sarcastic in the light hearted, humorous (attempt) sense... not in the sneering, in your face sense. I have a warped sense of humor. I forget that not everyone picks up on it or appreciates it. Oops. :oops:

[quote name='Kaleb124'] Now I am sure that I will start out getting flamed for this, but... I have a 5 month old akita puppy that I have trained using purely positive methods and supplimenting with these methods when problems arose...(like when the akita decided to ask "Why should I..."). Everyone compliments his perfect manners and obedience.[/quote] You bet your sweet patootie yer gonna get flamed :x !!! How dare you come here and preach positive training and such?! Anything less than slapping these buggers around, choking them down and showing them who's boss 'n stuff is not tolerated. What do you mean, putting the smackdown on them isn't the best way to train? Positive methods indeed. Hmph! :lol: I'll check that site out. My Standard Poodle is doing absolutely beautifully with obedience except for that jumping up thing. Holding his feet only makes him think I want to dance. He isn't a "mauler," just likes to stand with his front feet on my (or any passing stranger's) shoulders or chest (maybe he was meant to be a circus Poodle? :-? ). I've tried turning my back to him, giving him the cold shoulder, ignoring him... it doesn't matter. He has the patience of a Saint and is perfectly willing to stand indefinitely with his feet propped on my shoulders. Doesn't paw or anything... just stands. I am familiar with the knee to the chest thing, but I'm just not willing to try it with him. One thing is he recently had a major abdominal surgery and I am just way paranoid about bumping him at all (his innards are all wonky). Besides that, this dog is so totally "emotional" that if I so much as nudged him in the chest when he jumped, I might as well kick the bejeezus out of him because I know he'd take it that way. This dog does not respond well at all to ANY kind of negative reinforcement, but will do ANYTHING at all to please. Now how can I get him to see that having all fours on the floor is a good thing? It's not so much that *I* mind, though I do make him get down just because I don't want him thinking it's ok, but not every passing little old blue haired lady is going to appreciate him propping up on them. He is almost able to be trusted off leash, except that he wants to jump up on anyone who *might* pay him some attention. Can you see him climbing all over some poor wheelchair bound nursing home resident?:-? That's just me rambling. I'll check out that trainers' site. Gotta be something I can do to make it a more attractive option to keep all fours on the ground.

[quote name='Luka-pop'] Anyways, my point is, that my sis may be sheltered, but little kids that are over exposed to that stuff aren't benefiting from the "experience," and my sis definitely isn't not benefiting. Why do you think the drug abuse cases and premartial sex age rates have lowered over the past 20 years? I'm not saying that anybody's yonger sib is gonna become a druggie (actually, I know a 13 year old girl from the barn who's been neglecting her horse because she's addicted to drugs-poor horse), but I don't see what the big deal is that she doesn't find all this pleasant. [/quote] You are too cute! :lol: Ok, I think you may have gotten just a wee bit indignant. No one is saying anyone should find dog humping pleasant (I can't believe I'm actually debating this). It's just not THAT big a deal and I AM tickled that there are still people who get offended. It was my only point and, good gee golly, I'm sorry all over myself if you were offended at my saying your parents need to lighten up. It STILL seems weird to me, but hey, whatever works. I do have to challenge the notion that exposing kids to the "real world" sets them up for failure later on. My point was that *I* would rather be the one discussing sex, drugs, dirty old men and humping dogs with my kid sister rather than relying on society to do it for me. I am brutally honest with her and pull no punches. I have found that the kids (that I know) who are so sheltered their whole lives often become overwhelmed when they are faced with all this new stuff (think college) and all of a sudden NO boundaries. Yikes! I'm 35 and she's 9 (will be 10 next month). She's a straight A student and even has a job working for a paraplegic woman (cooking, cleaning and such) and draws a weekly paycheck (child labor laws, my butt). So far, I don't think I've been such a huge bad influence on her (but we haven't started hitting the bars together yet... still working on her fake ID :lol: ). Seriously, though, I think you are just cute as the dickens to be so concerned about this. :lol:

Wow, now this is weird. I never went to any of the nunneries (sorry, but I still get tickled at the idea of these love and peace nuns who gladly put the smackdown on insubordinates :lol: ), but was raised in a pretty strict Christian household (well, excluding my devout atheist father if that counts... it didn't then). Anyhoo, fast forward to now and I have a nine year old kid sister (MAJOR age difference here) who has been exposed to EVERYTHING. I am seriously (please forgive me) tickled at the idea of a 10 year old child being so sheltered (hey, my parents tried, too, but...) that dogs doing their thing would be considered SO offensive. Please forgive me and I do not mean to seem like I am poking fun, but it's just weird to me. My nine year old kid sister would think NOTHING of calling it a humpty dance. Then again, she has grown up with me as a big sister offering her such advice as, "Don't let 'em talk to you that way... tell 'em to kiss your *ss!" I also once gave her $20 to knock off her imaginary friend (ok, so I suck as a big sister). I will be the one buying her beer and cigarettes when she's 13 (ok, ok, maybe not quite THAT). My kid sister is one who would probably wait until there was a house full of people and then call these etiquette challenged dogs in and tell everyone, "Watch this!!" Anyway, I am just amazed at the culture differences. :lol:

Pshaw, it's just the humpty dance. I don't mean this to sound as sarcastic as it might come out, but I think your parents might just need to lighten up a little bit. I mean, it's not THAT big a deal. Just break it up (or prevent it once you see it heading in that direction) and get their (the dogs) minds on something else. I always get kind of tickled at people who make such a big deal out of two dogs doing the humpty dance (ok, it would be different if you were at the dog park and your dog began trying to hump a total stranger...). Granted, it's not desirable behavior and I'm certainly not saying just let them have at it, but it's really not something your parents need to get THAT upset about. :lol:

Science doc!! Welcome back!! How the heck are ya?! I really was wondering what had happened to you. My thoughts on breed research may sound kinda lame, but I kind of like the idea of perusing the shelters and I always think that one (or two or five or seven) will "speak" to you. They all can often tug at your heart, but there always seems to be one that will just click with you. It may be a particular purebred, or it may be something that no one could possibly tell what it is. Could be a puppy or could be one that's a gazillion years old. I NEVER in a million years thought I'd want to adopt an elderly special needs dog, but that dog in his short time with me ended up making the biggest impact in my life. I am STILL inspired by this little dog's spirit, though he is long gone. I know I know I'm rambling, but my point is that you just never know what dog (much less breed) is out there waiting for you. It turned out that (in hindsight) I needed that little dog as much as he needed me. About the volunteering thing, maybe I think bass ackwards, but I always like helping out the worst dumps I can find in existence. It always seems that they are the ones in the absolute worst need of help and I just always feel that's where I can offer the most assistance. You'll just have to figure out where you're more comfortable. I'm so glad you're back!

Speaking of things kids say... I don't have kids and have never claimed to have much for parenting skills, but there was a time when I found myself raising a little boy for a few years. I sometimes forget that children will repeat EXACTLY what they hear. I always had a tendency to mutter under my breath at other drivers on the road. Really bad things. I figure venting is good. I mean, I'm not whipping out guns or anything, so anger management has done its job and muttering can actually be a good thing. One of my favorite "call words" on the open road is *blush* d***head. Yup, as in, "move it, d***head!" This poor kid... I guess he was about three years old at the time and we were in one of those huge mega stores. Some little old blue haired lady who probably couldn't see past the tip end of her nose nearly rammed us with her buggy. My kid didn't miss the chance to screech at the top of his lungs, "Hey, move it, d***head!" Imagine my red face. :oops:

I don't know what kinds of folks your mom chats with, but maybe you can relay to her my ONE experience of meeting a chat buddy. I met an older lady once in a chat room and we struck up a friendship. Chatted every night on IM for hours on end. We talked about everything and I truly considered her a friend. Keep in mind I am a VERY private, guarded person who does not give out a lot of personal info (paranoid would be a good word), but I told her things I'd never told anyone before. So the day comes when this broad decides to hop a place and head down here (from Chicago to close to Tallahassee, FL). I was a little freaked out, but then decided that, hey, this could be fun. After all, I know alllllll about her and she is just so cool. Again, I can't stress enough how typically anti social I really am, so this was a really big deal for me. To get to the frickin' point, this lady was NOTHING like I had imagined and NOTHING like the chat buddy I was used to. She was a raging drunk, overbearing and demanding. Did I mention drunk and obnoxious? Oh, and a DRUNK. The friendship was shattered. The chat friendship was nothing like reality. To this day, this lady and I do not speak and I thoroughly despise her. That had to have been the longest five days I have ever seen. I actually ended up physically ill from having to deal with her (oh Lordy, the stories I could tell... me screaming from the back seat of a car as she is driving us to Tallahassee, "OH MY GOD... WE'RE GONNA DIE... AAAAAAACCCCCCKKK!!!"... I'm also not a good passenger :-? ). Sometimes, it's best to leave well enough alone. Chatting is great, but I don't think I'll EVER get that involved in a chat friendship again and then try to meet them. Why ruin the illusion? I do not even use my IM at all now except to go straight into my hotmail account without having to manually sign in. She ruined that for me. Yech! Goo, I shudder at the position you are being put in. With my 20/20 hindsight, I think I would have to beg and plead with Mom to rethink this thing. Have them stay in a motel at least, but it's really not fair to you to do this when your home should be your sanctuary. You should be able to feel secure and safe in your own home and that should take precedence over anyone else's fun. Good luck with this. I feel for ya.

Actually, I kind of have a different view of this whole thing... IF I knew where s/he was and IF I thought something could be done, I admit I would be the FIRST one to make that call. I am not insulted at all by being accused of caring enough to get involved. Unfortunately, I do feel that laduenda probably does meet the MINIMUM standards set to keep the local government happy enough to keep them off his/her back and to make that call would be meaningless. I, too, think this was one of those thumb-on-yer-nose nya nya nya things, so there's really no reason to get too worked up. Just another feeble attempt to validate something. We see it every day. :roll:

Absotively posolutely [color=red]NO[/color] way free feeding would work in my house... not with 8 dogs competing for food, the fights that break out when someone passes too close to someone else's bowl. We can't even leave empty bowls down because some of these greedy guts jealously guard them even when empty. They're not necessarily hungry as much as they are jealous and VERY possessive. The very thought makes me shudder. :-? Then again, I hear there are people out there who have only one dog and occasionally only two...

I have found that many people confuse animal [u]rights[/u] with animal [u]welfare[/u]. My involvement and passion is with animal welfare. Animal rights is a whole 'nother can of worms, but some well intentioned people just get it confused (and no, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone... just meant in a broad sense). There needs to be a clear outline defining the differences between animal welfare and animal rights. Animal [u]rights[/u] and all that stands for is scary stuff once you realize what is often intended.

Black GSD, now I feel like a doddering old fool. I never even thought about the dog slobber on the floor. Before my little Goober died a few months ago, we always fed him on the floor one bite at a time (not that he was a fast eater... he had no lower jaw and couldn't pick up bites from a bowl, so we'd scoop out one mouthful at a time on the floor where he would "peck" it up kind of like a chicken :-? ). One of us always took a vinegar/water soaked rag and cleaned the floor afterward. Lol, I feel like a schmuck for not realizing that everyone might not care to do that. :oops: Had I been thinking, a cookie sheet would have worked wonderfully, though the crating works good for the other greedymo I have (there are towels in there that are changed daily... I do more dog linen in a week than actual clothes :-? ). I guess I'll have to remember that for the next old jawless dog I get.

[quote name='sashagirl']Horsefeathers... Was this you?? :wink:[/quote] Not yet... my personal best at one time was five. I'm just not ambitious enough. :oops:

I sometimes place a tennis ball in the bowl of one of my greedy gut eaters. Unless you have a really large breed, the average sized dog isn't going to ingest a whole tennis ball. I sometimes will also put a particular greedymo dog in a crate and just scatter the food all over the place so that he has to pick it up piece by piece which slows him down, too. Of course, if you don't have multiple dogs competing for food, you can just scatter it out across the kitchen floor over a broader area and slow him down even more. Also, as mentioned above, feeding him smaller meals more frequently might help. All this is assuming, of course, that the problem is that your dog is just simply eating too fast.

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZQDmAkkgrJH9CShijXwjkLHsDVQbiATi0diFDOTXT3tpu!15*a2RsYGacg2!8t05Q0C4K2BPbYqJwKukARJTYo**dbPpu1qTkh7eR9tk48nCDuGQaccEm6K2Y1LZluHprqhPSBx*HCH7eNriKKvEqw/beware-of-dog.gif?dc=4675407362475932110[/img] This victim was attacked last night sometime after 1:00am. Witnesses say that she went to bed around 10pm. Sometime during the night, her Pit Bull went crazy and mauled her. Medical experts say that it's the worst case of trauma inflicted by an animal they have seen. A spokesperson for the family said, "She will be missed." The poor victim had just bought her "dream house" this Christmas! Scroll down to see her photo, but be careful; it's not for weak stomachs. The picture is a bit graphic...... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *are you sure you want to see this??? * * * * * * * * * * * Little girls everywhere are lighting candles in her memory!! [img]http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetMBPhoto&ImageID=nHwCyD1kLQKO5YoypSbwPgZysfk0SntKVOQcjmo29tVk2W4xDn2DzjG5fd4v*uXqN[/img] If someone else has already posted this, a thousand pardons from me... don't forget I still have the wonky disappearing posts problem. They're there one minute and then... [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WAD8Amocpx1Fi7f2mJmWFXWaiHoS6O5C68tAm1aWY5!vnvqzJwVYUYLp6puTqm6hViEXFStP9Hy9XwOz0yO3gwQzmrhaT1FQ83CNfgi!pu9Xj336VjA!Q3TzgHJMERLjOwAAAP****8/poof.gif?dc=4675407362503197198[/img]

[quote name='Anonymous'] I just do not think we would be doing apbts any disservice by, at the very least, breeding a less dog aggresive dog. It is our responsibility to do the best we can by our dogs, and pardon me, standards be d*mned, if those standards are contributing to the abandonment and euthanization and maiming of our pets.[/quote] This has to be the most sensible statement I have read on this subject! I get sooooo frickin' sick of hearing (on other boards, also) about how these "responsible" breeders are only trying to preserve the breed in its natural and originally intended state. I have spent I don't know how much time pondering how this is a good thing. I thought maybe I was just missing something. I, too, fail to see the purpose of maintaining and perpetuating dog aggression in a breed just because someone long ago thought it was a good idea. To me, it is a lame argument to say that dog aggression needs to be preserved for the sake of preserving the breed. I don't see many of the breeds that were originally bred for it taking down wolves, bears, or lions and these breeds are still existent. Breed standards indeed can and DO change when necessary. That "gameness" is NOT the only thing that makes a Pit Bull an endearing pet and anyone who thinks this is the only quality they have that makes them fit to exist is someone who would have to advocate fighting them to prove they are up to their breed standard. Can't have it both ways.

[quote name='HazelNutMeg'] my sister's harsher though, and Hazel seems to love her more! LOL I don't get it! [/quote] Ok, while I don't agree with the screaming, throwing, or whatever, the fact that Hazel seems to like your sister so much better may be a key thing. I kind of think that dogs are sometimes like little kids. They are happiest when they know their boundaries and miserable when they feel they have to constantly test them, therefore acting out. Make sense? I know so many dogs who seem to bond so much more closely to the stricter disciplinarian of the house. Once they know their "place," they usually settle into it. Simply put, maybe Hazel has been acting out because she can. Carol is, IMO, right on with her suggestion that Hazel is confused about what her role really is. She needs boundaries and they need to be enforced.

I prefer a COOKED natural diet as opposed to a RAW one (same benefits, less danger IMO), but do feed Wellness and supplement with cooked foods. If I ever have less than a Noah's Ark full of dogs, I would feed them probably exclusively on a cooked natural diet (really doesn't seem more expensive... just way more time consuming for a LOT of dogs). If you are interested in raw, newfiemom is a great source of information and resources, too.

Oh, joy! I have a Mini Schnauzer, too! Of course, you could probably name just about any breed of dog anymore and I might have one. In keeping with the topic, breeder ethics.... I think people should be stamped with expiration dates when born! Oh, you mean dog breeders. Nevermind. Continue...