Horsefeathers!

Wow, Cassie, you guys do tick removal? I won't touch them! I am inside a vet clinic (but grooming is a separate business entity) and the owners have the option of having the vet staff handle the ticks, or they can handle them at home. I won't go near a tick except very occasionally where one or two might have slipped past me during the initial inspection (I inspect all new dogs upon taking them in, for bugs, lesions, anything unusual, but most of my clients are prebooked regulars). I'm glad that Rowie will be ok. I don't know if you can get your hands on Advantix, but it's supposed to be pretty good. Advantage is ONLY for fleas, but Advantix is for fleas and ticks. My vet stopped carrying Frontline after too many complaints of burns and irritation at the application sites. I would worry about using it on a dog that already has irritated skin. Still, where you are, you may just have to get whatever is available to you. Anything has to be better than nothing. Anyway, I'm glad that Rowie seems to feel better.

Thanks for that name, Kiger! I'll have to see what I can find out about them. If they are people who don't mind being bugged, I may try to contact them for info. I'm always looking for a mentor.

I wouldn't mind the conformation, per se, but I had a real problem trying to figure out how to maintain a SP in full show coat and yet be able to work him. I did find one person with a working SP who said she tried once to work a SP in full show coat and it took 19 HOURS to get the burrs and trash out of the coat. Ack! I've seen a few shows that allowed a historically correct continental trim (a shorter version of the full show coat), but not many. If it's possible that a SP could do well in the ring without so much coat and STILL retain its working abilities, then that might be doable. I just don't know yet. Most of the SP's you see in the ring are so loaded with coat (and wouldn't that make competition in conformation tough, so that an otherwise marvelous dog might not do so well against a lesser dog with more impressive coat, which also, by the way, can be groomed to hide faults), I just don't see how they could work, or perform in agility (imagine weave poles with all that hair!). That's my dilemma. I would plan on having a correctly built dog(s) and making sure they are sound and have all pertinent health clearances, but I just keep thinking that if I HAVE to choose, I would rather start focusing on working abilities. Picture THIS in the water retrieving, or doing agility! :-? [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0aADiArUh8iDCFjJq59iEAUSxAUeVNhJsyIkiQAy9yOU5Ar6namnJv3A7Fhy82YL55zkLT5lQcg6jhnjGHj8BigEMAoRQ3DRJrW8NclcOZJy5EmiKfjpfN9!WaAvtgpTksYdmxzADMz5Q0eUZvgcVhGxsYS80LjAg/standard-in-snow.jpg?dc=4675422080044803446[/img]

Experience has taught me that it's better to be safe than sorry. Several years ago, my Black Lab, Tucker, was hit by a delivery truck that was rocketing through our community (Tucker was at the edge of our yard and the truck veered off the private drive and hit him). I saw it when it happened. The front bumper caught Tucker in a way that threw him away from the truck and he landed against a fence. He got up, shook it off, and kept right on running around, as if nothing were wrong. I looked him over, watched him move, checked him out and he seemed perfectly fine except for some scrapes and a mouthful of gravel. A year or so later, Tucker began limping. We had him examined and xrayed and it was discovered that he had some old healed injuries, including an improperly healed broken pelvis and femur, both on opposite sides. The improperly healed broken femur was set in such a way that it caused the hip to start backing out of its socket and Tucker was dysplastic. We have no way of knowing whether these injuries were the result of when Tucker was hit by that truck, or perhaps an injury that happened before we adopted him, but the vet said stranger things have happened. I don't see how Tucker could have just gotten up and ran around with those kinds of injuries, but the vet said it's possible(?). Anyway, Tucker had to have FHO surgery, costing plenty of $$$ and pain. If I had it to do over again, I would have made the emergency trip to the vet (was also on a Saturday afternoon) and had him examined. The vet would have known how to manipulate the legs and back end to know what he was looking for. At the very least, we wouldn't be having to live with the agony of wondering whether it was OUR irresponsibility (opting not to have him seen by a vet) that led to Tucker's pain. Had those bones been set and healed right, the FHO surgery could have been avoided. He will still likely be arthritic and have problems because some of the old healed injuries can't be fixed. Anyway, don't play around with bones and joints. I'd say make the trip and have an emergency vet on call look at your dog. Watching him move isn't enough because he may be injured and never limp.

I'm just curious. I'm going to toss something out there and you tell me what you think. I would be especially like to hear from people who are educated in breeding and genetics. I wuz thinkin... I have been doing a lot of research on my particular favorite breed, Standard Poodles, studying breed standards, learning of all the problems this breed is prone to and talking with "Poodle people" (what funny looking people they must be!). I was seriously considering eventually finding a mentor and getting a pup for the purpose of conformation and perhaps eventual breeding. I have only the best intentions in mind (misguided?). I really intend to do it right! Now I'm thinking a little differently. SP's are water dogs... retrievers. Athletes. Sooooo... I started thinking that I would rather get involved in agility and obedience. I'm starting to think that if I buy a dog, I want one from working lines and not just one with lots of conformation wins. The more I read, the more I'm beginning to think that conformation is a lot about beauty. I know, I know, I've been one to adamantly insist that conformation is all about the dogs being built to perform whatever functions they were bred for, but I'm seeing so many exceptions. I'm seeing GSD's in the ring that just don't look like they could possibly work. They are becoming so overangulated. With nearly any working breed, you will find fanciers who are becoming frustrated with changing standards within the ring (someone here was recently complaining that a lot of today's show Newfs would not be able to work because of the overabundance of coat being produced to win in the ring). So here's my thing... I'm considering getting a dog (waayyyyyyy down the road... we're talking several years away) from working lines and titling it in obedience and agility and whatever other "working" titles I need. I still have a LOT to learn yet about any of this. What I'm curious about is does a dog HAVE to prove itself in conformation to be worthy of being bred? I have been researching (the more I learn, the more I don't know!) and am learning the breed standard inside and out. I'm talking about dogs that have all pertinent health clearances, excellent working titles and are everything that SP's were ORIGINALLY bred to be. I want a dog that can do what it was bred to do! Even though the standard is there so the dog can hypothetically do what it's supposed to, nothing in the show ring can test the dog's capabilities or willingness to do what its original function was. So am I way off base in thinking that conformation isn't the end all, be all means to determining which dogs should be bred?

That's pretty spooky stuff and all, but lately I've been dreaming [b]I'm[/b] pregnant. Talk about waking up in a sweat... Don't worry about it. If you were that freaked out by a dream, you'll be absolutely OCD about not letting her get into ANY position to get pregnant.

[quote name='Rosebud'] Gooeydog, Cassie & Horsefeathers - I would like to point out that if you thoroughly understood pack order you would realize that you DO follow pack order, your dogs are just content on where they are in your pack. [/quote] I think maybe my long and drawn out post was misperceived. I do thoroughly understand what pack order is and have absolutely no doubt that my "pack" accepts me as their "alpha." I just don't obsess over it and feel the constant urge to have to dominate my dogs. We have plenty of mutual respect without me having to rule with an iron fist (ex: worrying about who goes through doors first, who eats first, who sleeps where, etc.). I would like to point out, once again, that I am not knocking those who do follow such stringent rules. I am aware that there is no one size fits all regimen for all dogs and owners. I'm sure there are those dogs who need the domination and constant reminders of where their "place in the pack" is. Just saying mine don't. :)

[quote name='courtnek']Work is out - they dont allow animals in the building.[/quote] I think you may have misunderstood what I was getting at. I don't know if the rescue is very familiar with your work place, but I was just *ahem*cough* wondering if you could "figuratively" take your dog to work... If that's out, perhaps you could all of a sudden start a home based business (again, figuratively) where you are home allllllll day long...? Ok, I admit I can be a bit creative when I am on a mission and I feel that someone is totally wrong in their assumptions about the care I can give. I guess each person has to live up to their own sense of ethics and while their (the rescue's) ethics may have them think a home with working owners is wrong, MY ethics tell me one can be a great pet owner and have a career at the same time. The two may conflict, but all we can do is what is right for US. Sooooooo I guess I'm just saying if it felt right to me... as if this were "the one," I'd be willing to TELL them I'd take the dog to work with me each day and take a chance that they didn't actually verify it. Worst case scenario is that they call your bluff, but then they've already denied the adoption in the first place, so there would be nothing to lose by ummm faking it. I know this may stir controversy. I'm on the rescue side, too, and know how I'd feel if I were deceived, but then I am one of the folks who DOES verify everything and follow up. Some of the rescue groups I've dealt with have a strict list of requirements, but pretty much only take people at their word other than obvious things like vet references (example- people saying they have a fenced yard when they really don't, or people saying they own their place when they are renting). If you strongly feel like this one is "the one," don't give up!! YOU know you are a responsible pet owner, so don't just take an easy no as an answer. Bug the crap out of them. "Quit" your job and start work at home (figuratively... you get it). Heck, didn't you say recently that your eBay business is just booming...? :) Just weigh your options and decide which you feel is the lesser of the evils. Good luck!

Courtnek, not that I'm advocating "bending" any rules, or anystuff, and I don't know what kind of work you do, but is there ANY way you could, say, take a new rescue to work with you every day (wink wink nudge nudge)?

This is sort of an interesting topic for me. I'm sort of with gooey on this. My "pack" of eight isn't run in "pack" fashion. None of my dogs challenge me for any kind of authority. I have never thought much about being the first through a door, eating first, or any of that. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place. I've just never had a need for it. My dogs usually eat first because of the convenience and they are frequently shooshed through doors first just so I can see where they are when I'm coming through, though any one of them will sit/stay and wait if I asked (and sometimes I do... again, it just depends). Two of my dogs will growl and snarl if they are being "asked" to do something they don't want to do (being picked up, giving up something, whatever), but they've never actually snapped. Then again, I don't hesitate at whatever I'm doing. I don't back off, but I don't make a big deal out of the vocalizations. These two particular dogs are a Mini Schnauzer and a Lhasa Apso. I really don't mind the vocalization. My theory is that if I DID show hesitation when they grumbled, I'd be opening the door for further aggression and "dominance issues." One time, I did try to "show him who's boss" with my Mini Schnauzer. He growled at me when I picked him up to kennel him and I flipped his butt over and held him in that beloved alpha dominance "I'm the freaking boss" position because I had read that this was the correct thing to do. Oh my goodness, what did I want to go and do that for. This dog FREAKED out. Not so much in an aggressive manner, but in an absolute panic. I had him absolutely terrified of me and I have since felt awful. For the longest time, he would cower when I came near. I do not want my dogs to be afraid of me. Healthy respect is good, but I could never bear to think of them being afraid of me. He still grumbles and growls, but I reckon he's just venting. I can handle him any way I want to with nothing more than verbal protest. I'm not really offering suggestions... just my insight from living on my own personal Island Of Misfits. I don't mind my dogs vocalizing their displeasure (grumbling). I can see where growling could lead to other things if it were allowed, but since I've never actually been afraid enough to back off, I've never had one as much as try to nip me. THEN, I'm afraid, they might have a reason to be afraid of me. :oops: I'm sure different situations call for different techniques, but in general, I'm just not as crazy about that whole "alpha" and "pack mentality" stuff as a lot of people are. I know it's the popular thing now, but I've just never had to worry about it. I used to really be an "I'm the boss!!" kind of pet owner, but over the last few years, I've noticed that my dogs behave just as well, but seem more stable without me worrying about my "alpha status." Maybe if I had different breeds of dogs (more dominant?), or summat... Some of mine need a sterner hand (figuratively) than others, of course, and each dog is handled based on their particular temperaments and mentality, but I never make a deliberate attempt to "dominate" them. I suppose if one ever seriously challenges me somehow, I may react differently, but I honestly don't see it happening. I think one thing that has established our "pack" is that we are a "no free lunch" household. Basically, my dogs earn anything good they get. It could be something as simple as sitting down before being petted, but I think this helped establish good habits and made them WANT to "do the right thing" instead of having to spend so much energy correcting bad behavior. Now it's just become habit that they will automatically sit, or wait for some simple request, when they want something. I kind of think this sort of work can help some problem dogs. We've fostered several "problem children" (dogs) that this worked beautifully for. Instead of intimidating them, it made them try really hard to "do the right thing" (I love that phrase... can you tell?). I just see the potential for more head butting if I tried to blatantly dominate them. Again, I'm not knocking the whole "pack mentality" thing. It's just my own personal experience that I don't need to "dominate" my dogs, but perhaps if I had some other kinds of breeds, it might be necessary. I dunno.

It certainly sounds like you are experiencing the wonderful, aromatic bouquet of anal fluid :lol: ! Ain't nothin' quite like it. I think it would be a good idea to have a vet look at Ben just to rule out an abscess, or infection, but also to have the glands expressed if needed (sounds like it). This is something you can do, yourself, if it needs to be done regularly, but I think it's a good idea to have the vet do it the first time and show you. Diet can play a role, sometimes, in ummm anal health. Firmer poo usually enables a dog to express anal fluid when defecating where mushy poo isn't quite as effective. However, some dogs are just prone to problems, no matter what. I think an initial consultation with a vet would probably be a good idea. Good luck. :)

We have a spare room that's designated as the "cat room." The litter box is in there and we have a child safety gate across the door. The cats can jump the gate, but for the dogs, it's a big ACCESS DENIED. There's nothing they'd love better than to go surfing for cat turds.

I can sympathize. I wanted to strangle my Penny when I came home to this. She was "digging" out to get to a squirrel. What we PLAN to do (eventually :roll: ) is just pry up all the sheet rock down to the bare wood and install ceramic tiles. The kind I'm looking at look like a random "design" with stones, but nearly any of the smaller ceramic tile will do. I don't think she'll be tearing THAT up. It's all prefab stuff (cut to size) from Lowe's (they have similar stuff at Home Depot). Once it's sized, all we should have to do is lay it out and glue (or whatever) it down. It doesn't look like it'll be too hard to do. I'll be sure to let you know. :-? Oh, and we will also be installing a decorative "gate" across the bottom portion of the window where we can open and close it as we wish. Just to blockade it off when we want to. It will be nice to not have to mop snark off my windows (see photo below) every day. :-? Here's the damage and the guilty party. [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZgDdAv4f4XpArdPRRdEl6z5tqI9g1po8m*yoUxVKhjLmAW3p4N3hP1gGekz8TC9yV4UnVAYyHiQGSOO!1SMOxbgpyApRAY!p2R*ZNzW*2DOLN7neI!!7YLk3P2144e6HUuxhLmnLkqH9535m2xoAlQ/1-12-03Pennydamage.JPG?dc=4675405104763370569[/img] [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZwDpAi8gApFArdPRRdEl6z5tqI9g1po8SEXvMD*RI!x1aLPN5bp7IrshUhR7A!FzlsLP5P!rEd3CqCSAKw1pJ8pqlO9!tm7RhYD5nlAiATUKcVxm8FwpPfd2zfyUD8MHPrhBWFsvuMofjPevyxTISQ/1-12-03Pennydamage1.JPG?dc=4675405104804479769[/img]

[quote name='RescuerAndVetTech']Horesefeathers- I speak nothing but truth, and from experience.[/quote] Don't kill ME... I'm just the messenger. Still, you are wrong. Your experiences are limited and can't account for ALL scenarios. My experiences and training say otherwise. Just because you haven't experienced something (or are unaware of it) doesn't mean it ain't so. My VET (not tech) is willing to admit that he's constantly learning things he didn't know of before and wouldn't dream of belittling someone just because they threw an idea out there he wasn't familiar with. No vet knows it all (just ask some about nutrition...). Even now, if you are interested, you could do a little research and KNOW that spaying can affect coat (instead of just saying that you haven't experienced it, therefore it ain't so). I'm not trying to be argumentative. I guess that just belittling Rowie for passing along info that even SHE said she wasn't sure of kind of rubbed me the wrong way. She wasn't trying to pass off erroneous info... it was just thrown out there as a thought and ANYONE was free to research it to find out if it was true or not rather than just accuse her of passing off bogus info. If we respond so hastily and venomously to those with differing views, some people will become too afraid to post valid info for fear of reprisal and then what kind of forum would we have? Let's debate info and not make personal attacks.

[quote name='RescuerAndVetTech'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']Nea, believe me, neutering your Bir will have much pore positives than negatives :wink: The only downside I've heard about nuetring a Cocker is that they're coat get coarse and fluffy, not silky... :-? Is this true? It sais so here in my dog book, but I'm not sure... :-? [/quote] Absolutely false. Of all the cockers we've spayed/neutered I've never seen one where their coat turned coarse as a result. That's due to other influences. I've known (and still do) many adult cockers who are altered and every single one has a silky , healthy coat - unless do to other conditons. It worris me that there are such literary pieces giving out false info. Unreal.[/quote] Don't take this as me dissin' you or anything, but you are wrong. According to the top Cocker show people, there is indeed such a thing as a "spay coat." The coat can indeed change after they've been altered. It has to do with chemical changes. Rowie was right. Besides, I've handled several Cockers, personally, that had significant changes in the texture of their coats after they were altered. However, it's certainly no reason for anyone with a pet that isn't being shown in conformation NOT to have their dog spayed/neutered. Don't be so quick to dismiss information you were previously unaware of. All it takes is a little research to prove/disprove what someone is saying instead of belittling someone just because the information provided isn't something you're familiar with. In other words, yo, why go dissin' on Rowie that way? 8)

I'm the oddball here. I LOVE Standard Poodles and, yes, I DROOL over the show dogs in the full continental trims (show clips). Standard Poodles were originally bred as water retrievers and the "unnecessary" hair was clipped away. What was left was to protect the major organs and the joints. That's the reason for that particular pattern. There's no way a working dog could have had that length hair all over because, other than the upkeep (ack!), those coats are extremely dense and can you imagine trying to swim with all that added weight once that coat got wet? Granted, the coats on the show Poodles are VERY extreme and most people with working Poodles don't work dogs in coat like that. There is a historically correct version of that trim that's basically the same pattern, just much shorter. Still, I LOVE these Standards in full show coat. I intend to eventally put my own Standard, Perry, in this trim just for the practice and experience. Whether it is considered unattractive or not, it is certainly an art. I am going to use him in grooming competitions and hope to eventually gain enough experience and training to show Standards (way off in the future). I wish I could make this trim work on my Toy Poodle, but she's just built way wrong (too many faults to camouflage!) and her coat is way too cottony. My white Standard... he's a beauty! Yup, I'm the odd one, but there is nothing more elegant to me than a Standard in a full continental trim. :iloveyou: [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0aADmAq8hWCDCFjJq59iEAUSxAUeVNhJsyIkiQAy9yOU5Ar6namnJv3A7Fhy82YL55zkLT5lQcg6jhnjGHj8BigEMAoRQ3DRJSSqNjgQbH4foadypdzPauwVgBRpaldq5r5x*Q1F6g1irQIAlswgn5GxsYS80LjAg/standard-in-snow.jpg?dc=4675422080044803446[/img]

Knickers... izzat like drawz? :o

I know this thread is quite old, but I just happened to stumble across it (it's still quite early yet and I'm doing a lot of stumbling about :-? ). I don't know that this is in any book, but my dogs recognize the word, "mine." I don't know how this came about, but it works wonderfully. With newer dogs, or dogs who like to nibble on inappropriate things, we go around the house, hold close to us anything we don't want chewed, and emphatically say, "mine!" If they are allowed to have it, we offer it. The dogs now only take what is offered to them and won't touch anything else. Maybe my dogs are just weirdos, but I've never had one of my dogs chew on anything I told them was mine. It works for furniture, too, not that you can pick it up. Just give it a big ol' arm wraparound hug and say, "mine!" very emphatically. My dogs respect MY stuff if I tell them it's mine. Prior to this, I was a huge contributor to the stockholders of the Bitter Apple spray. What made me have to change that was that a couple of my dogs actually LOVE Bitter Apple (and I agree that it's the most vile, disgusting tasting thing there is beside *snicker* goat milk). If you think you look silly walking around screaming at the dog's toys, imagine how goofy I look walking around with all these dogs following me, picking up all my worldly possessions and emphatically telling the dogs they're mine. Then again, my dogs may be the only weirdos on the face of the earth this works for. I'm kind of accepting the fact that I live on the Island of Misfits.

I kinda sorta have a problem with people who erroneously believe (about Pits) that their dispositions come SOLELY from their upbringing and socialization. It ain't so. I adore my Pit as much as anyone, but I know she is dog aggressive. She was socialized from 5 weeks on, raised around other dogs her entire life and is excellent in obedience. However, she is extremely dog aggressive and would just as soon kill another female dog as to look at one. No way would I ever take her into a dog park. Only a couple of years ago, I also believed that ANY dog, Pits included, would be a "good" dog, raised right, and would never have believed for a moment that whole business of "what they were bred for" (fighting). After the problems we began having and doing a lot of research and also now working with a behaviorist, I know that dog aggression in Pits DOES indeed come naturally. While I'm not saying that every Pit will be dog aggressive, I am saying I would never trust one NOT to be. I think any Pit owner should be aware that it is a characteristic they may have to deal with and be prepared for it. Most people (at least in my area) own Pits as status symbols without truly understanding the breed. Knowing this, there is no way I would ever take, say, my Poodle into a dog park with a loose roaming Pit Bull. The chances of it being a responsible, knowledgeable Pit owner (again, in my area) are slim to none. Just like many people own Poodles as fashion accessories, many people own Pits for that tough guy image with absolutely no knowledge of what makes them tick. If this makes me a "breed racist"(?), oh well, but I don't believe an open dog park is a proper place for MOST Pits (or any ill behaved dog, but since we are speaking of Pit Bulls...). The word "most" is to leave an open for the atypical ones who adore romping with other dogs. Hey, stranger things have happened.

I worked as a bather for Petsmart for a little while before starting my grooming career. Every single dog in our store was immediately offered water. That was the first thing we were to do upon taking in a dog. However, many dogs won't touch it. They are often nervous and shy and won't drink. Now that I have my little groom salon set up, many of my dogs are with me all day. Most of my clients work all day and drop off the dogs first thing in the morning and won't return until late afternoon. Every single dog in my shop is offered water, but I'd say maybe half of them ever drink any of it. That means they are virtually all day without water. All one can do is offer. Even most of my own dogs will not drink water at work, even though they are there for 10 hours, and will dive into the water pan at home as soon as they can get into the door. If I were a pet owner, I'd probably also be alarmed, but just be aware that many dogs just won't drink. I've even kept bottled water at work for the dogs and it made a difference only with a few. By the same token, most of my dogs are hand dried and don't spend a lot time sitting under a heat dryer.

While I agree that a vet exam is in order, it may be for kind of different reasons than listed above. Of course, the teeth probably do need to be cleaned if they are as bad as you say. A vet exam will tell you exactly what you need to know and what to do about it. The thing with the breath... bad breath can be indicative of many things other than just teeth problems. My Standard Poodle's teeth are stained brown and blotchy looking, though he recently had a dental. The breath was horrible. Long story short, it turned out he had some internal problems that required surgery. He has also had to have a total change of lifestyle in the way he eats and the way his food is handled. If I hadn't been alarmed at his foul (as in necrotic smelling) breath, he would likely have eventually died from the problems causing it. Don't assume the problem is just with his teeth. Have an exam done. If a dental is needed, the vet will recommend it. If the breath doesn't clear up after that, INSIST on further examination/testing until you find the problem. I just get on this soapbox whenever anyone is concerned with foul breath. More often than not, it is indicative of mouth problems, but I just like to point out that it can also be a warning of something far more serious.

Depending on how much it bugs you... I'm all for having the dog examined to bar any kind of infection, or any of that. If it's just the typical icky red tear staining, there are different things you can do depending on how bad it bugs you. Some people use low doses of tetracycline (from a vet) to get rid of the staining. The tearing is still there, but it just doesn't stain. I'm not too crazy about using whiteners so close to the eyes. I guess I'm a weinie that way. Also, I find it easier to PREVENT staining rather than try to get rid of it. My preferred (safe) way is to wash the area daily with a warm cloth, or you can use the drops people use in their eyes for contacts (I don't wear contacts, so I forget what this stuff is called, but it's safe in eyes). Then dab a smear of Vaseline under the eyes afterward. It won't do a thing for the staining that's already there, but as it grows out, more staining will be prevented. This does have to be a daily routine, though, with the face washing and Vaseline treatment. The Vaseline just helps wick the wetness away from the face rather than have it sit there and stain. Again, this is just my preferred way because it's safe and I don't like chemical whiteners around eyes.

No, I've never had a desire to live forever. I worry too much about the future. I'm very goal oriented and to live forever would be torture. It's like there would constantly be too many obstacles. Every day would be a personal challenge and to have to keep striving to do better and better and to be more successful... Can you imagine being 45786374222 years old and STILL trying to achieve MORE success? Ack! I'd rather die happy and peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather (not like the passengers screaming in his car...). Then again, I always sort of thought it would be a cool idea for population control if people were stamped with expiration dates when they're born. "Hey, pal, time's up!"

Ok, I'm the queen of piggyback posting... :oops: As gooey pointed out, only YOU know what's going to be best for you and your family. I don't want you to think I'm discouraging you at all. I'm just offering some matter of fact thoughts in regard to restraining Hazel. It's up to you to decide if you think it would help you at all. Again, good luck.

Ok, right now you are obviously very emotional and not likely to be thinking as rationally as you might otherwise. Let's just take this one step at a time. About the cat food... if you feel that has some bearing on Hazel's behavior (or even if not), just simply feed the cat where Hazel can't access the food. We feed our cats on the washing machine. You can feed on a higher surface, or in a room separated off by a child safety gate (the cats can go over, but not the dog). That, in itself, is not such a big crisis and should be relatively easy to solve. The thing with Hazel is a bit more difficult. I'm certainly not a trainer, but I'm going to give you my input based just on my experiences with living with an "out of control" dog. It can be done successfully, depending on how much structure and time you are willing (or able) to put into it. I don't know much about how Hazel is restrained (is the yard fenced, is she on a run?), but you need to make sure whatever means you use is as foolproof as possible. Our yard is fenced in with an electric wire running around the inside perimeter of our fence. They can't get close enough to the fence to try to escape. Prior to that (with our "out of control" dog), we used a runner. We ran a very heavy duty cable from one tree to another (can use posts, or any solid, stationary object) and CLAMPED them on. A ticker wheel was put on the cable with a chain running from it and then it was hooked to the dog. She had the run of most of the yard, but was secured (if you want photos of this setup, I can try to photo it... it's still hooked up outside, but I never use it, anymore, since we secured the fence). Of course, you would only want to use this while you can monitor Hazel. It's just a safe way to let the dog out of the house without risking her running off. You have to be able to control the dog 24/7. When you go off again like you did when Hazel got loose, you do need to take something (chain?) that she absolutely can not escape from, or keep her physically attached to you by way of a leash. I have even hooked a leash to my belt straps, so I wouldn't have to constantly be holding it, but the dog was secured to me. What I'm really trying to say is that it CAN be done... living with a headstrong dog, but you have to try to anticipate ANYTHING that can go wrong and plan for it. My Penny (the one I worry about getting into trouble) can be very determined and she is also extremely dog aggressive. Like Hazel, she is very well trained as far as obedience goes, but I can't "train" the aggression out of her; I can only control it. One of the biggest things I had to work on with her is her recall. That is VERY valuable if she ever runs off. You might want to start over and start [u]very[/u] intensive work with her on her recall. Obviously, she doesn't come when called if she has a mind not to. If you can get her to reliably come to you, no matter what, that will be very valuable. Getting upset with her only reinforces her desire to run. I also have a mini Schnauzer who is certainly no threat to society, but will run if given the chance. I learned that I HAD to be willing to put my emotions to the side ("why, you little... get your @$$ back here NOW!!!") to be able to get my hands on him if he got loose. Trust me, he ain't coming anywhere near me if he thinks I'm upset. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, when you have your bearings about you and aren't quite so emotional, just step back and think of what you could do differently. Again, you just have to be able to anticipate anything that can go wrong and be prepared for it. Having her safely contained (leashed, tied, fenced, housed) 24/7 is the most basic and important thing you can do. Take away ANY opportunity she has to get loose and run off. If she is indeed a dangerous dog and has a potential to attack someone when she runs off, you MUST keep her under control and never, ever let your guard down. If you think that, for some reason, you can't do it, it may be best to (as you're doing) think of some alternative. My point is that it is possible to securely contain a dog 24/7, but if you don't think you can, you have a responsibility to Hazel to keep her safe, but also to other people and animals that may fall victim to her. I wish I could help with alternatives, but so far, I've been successful in keeping my knucklehead dog secured and it's all come from trial and error. I've had to learn the hard way, too, but the experience has been valuable. My dog is on medication to help calm her down (I was very reluctant to medicate her, but it did help) and I can put my finger on her 24/7. If it ever comes down to it that we couldn't control her, anymore, she would HAVE to be pts because of a law in my state that says you can't rehome a dangerous dog. I hope any of this makes sense and please understand it's only my input from my experience handling a hard to control, potentially aggressive dog. I do know that as they get older, it doesn't get any better. Good luck and keep us posted.