Horsefeathers!

The blue stuff = Barbicide. It's what I use to clean brushes, combs, hemostats (ear hair pullers), blades, etc. Perhaps I overdo things a bit (ok, so I'm *slightly* OC), but I change it out daily. It only takes a teeny bit to a whole jar of water and is relatively cheap. I am an absolute germophobe(?) in regard to not only grooming, but day to day life. Actually, my state department of agriculture is the entity in charge of mandating cleaning "rules." Keeping your brushes clean between dogs is only the tip of the iceberg. You need to be conscientious of kennel cleaning, towel washing, table sanitation between each animal, tub sanitation, as well as the general grooming area including floors and, yes, even walls (you will be amazed at how and where hair and fluff will accumulate which can carry any germies). Just a good common sense approach to cleaning will suffice. My personal favorite cleaner approved by our inspectors is a water/bleach solution 32:1 (for kennels, floors, tubs, walls). You don't even have to be able to smell the bleach for it to be effective. Maybe that's not big news to you, but I was ALWAYS a bleachaholic, using it 1:1 with water. I figured if the fumes weren't knocking me down, it wasn't working (household use... got over that prior to kennel use). I'm not kidding when I say I HATE germies, so that whole bleach thing was a revelation to me. All this to say that "the blue stuff" = Barbicide. :oops: Good grief, get me talking about grooming and dogs and I just don't know when to quit. :-? HF who is still talking and can't shut up...

[quote name='DogPaddle']The GL was possible suggested over the halti as a GL will actually close the dogs mouth but a Halti will not. [/quote] Duh, me, I'm such a dumbarse! She DID say that it would allow me to close Penny's mouth (I think). I thought maybe I had just misunderstood her. I have NO familiarity with these contraptions other than having heard about them and seen them in catalogues (never had a training problem before). I'm glad you mentioned that and that I did hear her right.

I wonder how bad people would freak out if they heard one of my daily rants, "If you don't knock it off, I'm gonna beat you to sleep and then beat you for sleeping!!" :oops: But I say it with much affection. :lol:

I don't know about the other movie, but "As Good As It Gets" had a Brussels Griffon (if I'm thinking about the right movie... Jack Nicholson?). I hope you do a bit more research on the breed before deciding for sure that this is what you want. Cute isn't everything and many a dog has ended up in a shelter because someone saw them in a movie, decided they were cute, took one home and THEN realized it wasn't the right breed for them. Please learn something about the breed before deciding you want one.

I have been working with a vet who is "into" dog behavior lately with my Penny (the Pit Bull/Boxer mix). Some people here may remember that she is/was becoming increasingly dog aggressive and her attacks more volatile. Not good in a household that includes 7 other dogs. (Ok, ok, I'm getting to the Gentle Leader part) One thing we learned (duh) was that Penny is just being, well, a Pit Bull. Dog aggression comes naturally. We never sought out a Pit Bull, but she was a five week old rescue pup that needed to be placed at that time (she's four years old now). No time then, I reckon, to worry about the future. Anyway, we've had Penny on medication to try to mellow her out some and have been working with this very behavior oriented vet (since the nearest behaviorist is four hours away) and was surprised that she recommended a Gentle Leader for Penny. Penny's obedience is extraordinary and she is not a puller (as a matter of fact, this vet remarked several times about how well behaved Penny is), so I didn't get it. This vet told me the same thing about how holding the muzzle somehow tells the dog that they are not in control. I have ordered a Gentle Leader from eBay and am waiting for it. It is not supposed to be the solution to the problem, but rather a way to supplement our other modifications. This vet said that perhaps it would take some of Penny's "control." At the very least, with it on, we will be able to react much more quickly during those times she might try to attack one of our other dogs. She is never ever allowed contact with them unsupervised and she isn't constantly volatile. She is just unpredictable and quick. We have to be quicker. Perhaps this Gentle Leader halter thingy will help. It's certainly worth a try. We have been instructed to keep it on her while she's loose within the house (never unsupervised, of course) and to keep her leashed. That way, we have instant control of her head and face if she does indeed decide to attack. Still, the vet said the very presence of the GL on her face may discourage her from wanting to attack (or at least lessen the desire?). That whole "control" thing. Anyway, kind of off topic, but was just interested in reading about the control thing with these halters, being this vet just said the same thing to me this week. She has armed me with tons of literature from behaviorists and books and plenty of advice, so we'll see what happens when the GL arrives. One side note... she adamantly insists that a GL is NOT the same as a Halti and told me to go with the GL. I don't know the difference (except that she said the Halti could come off in a critical moment?), but I suppose I'll find out. So they're not JUST for dogs that try to pull, huh?

[quote name='2MALTESE']Would you call your child stupid? [/quote] No, I save the REALLY good ummm "terms of endearment" for children! :) I know what you mean DP... my parents didn't have much of a sense of humor when it came to "terms of endearment" for my siblings. Then again, these terms were much, MUCH worse than "stupid." :evilbat: On a more serious note (yeah, right *snicker*), I firmly believe that dogs (at least mine) respond more to HOW I say something rather than WHAT I say. It's been a long running joke around my house to gush and cuddle with some of my more errr challenged dogs while saying, "you're so stupid... yes, you are! and you're ugly, too! my goodness, you're just the silliest dog I've ever seen in my entire life! *gush*coddle*coo*" Maybe my dogs have a sense of humor? I don't know, but they eat it up! :P

[quote name='2MALTESE'][color=blue][/color][color=red][/color] I was a little upset at how you called your dog, Duke, stupid. You need to have patience with him, he seems like an otherwise smart dog. I agree to use treats and praise him when he does something right. You might not want to teach him to open the fridge, though. He might take advantage of that leftover chicken! Good Luck and please don't call your dog names. Thank you. :angel:[/quote] You'd really hate to see the sign I have by my driveway then. It says, "Old dog, young dog, several stupid dogs live here. Please drive slowly." :-? But I mean "stupid" in only the nicest way... a term of endearment? :oops:

This is something we've put a lot of thought into. There are no children here... just the hubby and me and the critters. We live in an area that gets hurricanes and tornadoes regularly (we were narrowly missed by a tornado just last night, but some people 20 minutes away weren't so fortunate). I also think about the possibility of fires when I'm not home. My critters are not loose when we aren't home. The cats have their own bedroom they are confined to and the dogs are crated. I have too many animals for the fire department/police/me/whoever to be trying to look for in an emergency. The local emergency officials have access to the information of how many animals are in the house and exactly where they are located, so there will hopefully not be the problem of looking under beds and such. There are stickers on the windows that state that all animals are to be sent to and boarded at my vet's clinic (name and address on sticker) if we're not able to be reached. I haven't really put a lot of thought into the whole war thing, though. I mean, I haven't been stashing away bottled water and months supplies of food. If it comes to that, we will be as screwed as the animals.

I have a Pit Bull/Boxer mutt named Penny. Duzzat count? :) [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0XwDeAsMez!70vJNl7uYxMg3FuXoL04rALdTz8BbVX0WonOQH2UC28iAc8P8IXmtUkN*lWy0oq1ZJCq9szMPt0eDDLy2hsNByW79N9ISUCwRE7uF6G3L8bjyMVLsmcZkLOWqa*ewDQuM/Penny-ears.jpg?dc=4675383177158648998[/img]

I would be happy enough if I could figure out a way to convince these dogs to keep some of their hair on them. That could be their contribution to the vacuuming problem. I swear they lay in their cozy little beds at night dreaming of ways and places to deposit their fluff (like in the drinks I foolishly leave uncovered, or in the refrigerator... I wish I could figure out which dog is the one raiding the fridge at night and tell him to at least keep his hair out of there). A couple of these dogs don't just blow coat; they throw it. Ever seen projectile shedding? My husband keeps threatening to fire their groomer. DogPaddle, that's funny. Out of eight dogs in my house, NONE of them are afraid of the vacuum (several have issues of being afraid of other things like storms, misplaced clothes and wind up toys, but NOT the vacuum... go figure). To the contrary, I often have to nudge them out of the way with it as they won't move for it.

Hobbit, I really like your "unconventional" way of thinking. It is my ever so humble opinion (since I'm batting zero tonight, I might as well just go for all or nothing) that far too many people get hung up on titles... winning at all cost, but at what cost to the breed(s)? I see on some of the grooming forums how people "show groom" dogs. To me, there is a big difference in enhancing a good dog and blatant cheating by way of altering color (chalking out or even dying out of unacceptable colors for a particular breed) and such. These people are so hung up on winning, they forget that they're SUPPOSED to be showing CORRECT dogs to begin with. So some of these dogs have those beloved and highly coveted titles, but the dogs are not correct. How does that benefit a breed? I know I'm not making sense, but I'm with you on the notion that far too many people place way too much emphasis on titles and not enough emphasis on CORRECTNESS.

[size=6]Ok, I have my duck taped. Now what do I do?[/size] [img]http://www.groomers.org/discus/messages/91/17647.jpg[/img]

[size=6]Please don't feed the troll. :roll: [/size]

Pzoo, I may have gotten a bit ahead of myself. These techniques work best when using a very strong dryer. Without having a hv dryer available, I would go ahead and do a thorough pre bath brushout using the spritz/brush method and then bath as planned (unless the dog is absolutely filthy which seems unlikely :lol: ). The main thing I want to avoid is brushing a dog while totally dry. I'm so glad I can be useful sometimes. :oops:

[quote name='pzoo9']As for brushing, I brush then bathe. In theory, the mats swell up and leave a mess to work with when it is time to blowdry. I think it is a personal preference. :D[/quote] Ah, not so! I, too, used to believe this. I just KNEW that bathing a matted coat would cause it to swell and set the mats tighter and all that. It sounds logical and I believed that for years. It's not true! Ok, I'm talking MATS and not a dog that's encased in a shell (hopefully, no one here would let their dog get in that condition and then I hope no one would try to demat that). Seriously, with the use of decent products and conditioners and a good, STRONG hv to help push the matting away from the skin, I am able to remove mats that would have been much more difficult with a dry, dirty coat. As it turns out, dirt and oil are the enemies which will cause mats to "set." A clean, well conditioned coat "gives" a lot more and there is much, much less damage than dry brushing a dirty coat. The more breakage that occurs when dry brushing, the more problems you will have with matting as broken ends tend to intertwine (there is actually a scientific explanation to all this!). Dry, dirty coat is NOT "elastic", but damp, clean coat is, so when you brush/dry a damp, clean coat, there is less breakage as the coat "gives." Therefore, a coat damaged from breakage will mat more quickly than an "intact" one and it becomes a vicious cycle. Seriously! I am a hard old bird to get to change her mind, but holy balls, the difference it makes is astounding. Also, for routine brushing between baths, every exhibitor I've ever talked with from double coated breeds to Poodles all said that you should mist with water or a weak water/conditioner solution while brushing and NEVER brush a dry coat. Mist, brush, mist, brush each section as you're going along. Again, that whole damaging to dry coat thing. I do this with everything from my full coated Lhasa Apsos to my Poodles and it's much less work with much better results than I ever got from just plain dry brushing. Just a side note... I don't know if you're familiar with the story of the 70 Collies that were rescued in Montana, but some of them were actually encasted. Very few of them were shaved, but the many that had the coat saved were all dematted AFTER the bath. I know some of the groomers involved in that rescue effort and they performed miracles using that technique. Then again, nothing is written in stone, so, of course, it's (as mentioned) a matter of personal preference, I'm sure. This does seem like revolutionary stuff to some people who have done the same thing for many, many years. Sorry to go a bit off topic. Just like Hobbit lives and breathes genetics, I am a sucker for the science concerning coat and skin care and even the chemistry aspect of shampoos and conditioners. It actually IS a science when you learn exactly WHY things work the way they do (like, for example, LATHER in shampoo is just to make you THINK you're getting something clean, but suds are actually useless). Anyway, I'm in the South, too. It appears to be an early Spring, so perhaps it IS just a seasonal thing. 8) I just realized... I never explained what carding is to K when she asked... :oops:

I was thinking the seasonal shedding thing, too. I don't know where you are, but we are heading into Spring quick, fast and in a hurry here, and all the dogs' coats are telling it. They are blowing their winter coats at an amazing rate. Perhaps this sudden blast of hair is just seasonal? Ickle, I know you are an exhibitor and are way more experienced in Shelties than I am, but EEEEK! I never ever dry brush a double coated (or any) dog before a bath, anymore. I just can't do it. I always let my shampoo/conditioner/hv do a lot of the heavy work in the bath and then mist/brush afterward. Please don't think I'm second guessing you. This technique is something I learned from other exhibitors here (one being a Collie and Sheltie exhibitor) who insisted that I should never ever dry brush a coat before a bath. Perhaps it's just a cultural difference (I am US based), or maybe you have different products that make this not as practical? I used to ALWAYS do a thorough brushout before the bath until these people told me otherwise. Sorry to kind of go off topic... any kind of coat care talk makes my brain go into overdrive.

Ugh! I have (among the 7 other dogs) a Toy Poodle girly. She is a horrible representation of the breed... soft, cottony coat, roach backed, long bodied, short necked, short legged, heavy muzzled... blech! I am absolutely stunned at how many people want to get puppies out of her. Not only other people with their little mutant Poodles, but people with other breeds! "Oh, let's have a litter of Lhasa Poos/Yorkie Poos/Shih Poos/Schnoodles..." Whatever they have that's small and fuzzy is good enough to breed to her, I guess. I have had people actually get indignant with me when I tell them she's been spayed... as if I'm such a fool for "throwing away" all the money "we" could have made. Argh, I need not start this rant. Idiots. :x

Alicat, I just meant "we" in the collective sense... not picking anyone in particular out. I wasn't being confrontational, I swear. Sometimes if it comes up in my mind, it just comes out and I really don't pay attention to how it sounds. The good thing with that is that I'm honest and no one ever has to guess where I'm coming from or talking about. The bad thing is that I sometimes come off like a real doo doo head. I am still struggling with my "people skills." :roll:

[quote name='alicat613 not logged in']Oh my gosh...I'm sorry but we have discussed the freaking grapes at this board like 20 times since I've been a member and that has not been long!! Grapes CAN be bad. Some believe that those dogs affected already had liver or kidney problems. Generally a grape or two is fine, in a healthy dog and keeping in mind the size of a dog. I have a 6 month old Great Dane who weighs about 90 lbs. I give him grapes. He's had about 7 grapes in his entire life. And he's fine.[/quote] "We" have also discussed the freaking RAW and BARF thing to death and the proponents never tire of discussing that, either. While I adamantly refuse to ever feed it to any of MY dogs again and KNOW that it [u]can[/u] be dangerous, I don't find it necessary to ridicule those who wish to continue discussing it. That was just plain ol' mean. I'm just like many others here who say it's not worth the chance. A gazillion dogs may not ever have a problem with grapes, but I don't want to be the one to figure out how much is TOO much of anything that could be potentially dangerous. "Probably be ok" makes me kind of nervous, ya know? I can only imagine it might make others nervous, too. Side note... when I was a kid, our family Chihuahua lived on a diet that consisted of a significant portion of Hershey's Kisses. We didn't know any better and she was always fine and lived to be 16 years old. It sure doesn't mean my dogs now get chocolate. Anyhoo... just kinda rubbed me raw that someone would get kind of impatient (sounding) with someone else because of the number of times they posted to a topic the other deemed unworthy of further discussion. You still a'ight n' stuff, though, Alicat. I mean, how bad can a St. Poo lover be? :lol:

I guess my point is more like this... WHY in the world is this "gamebred" word being tossed around at every turn and then this person adamantly denies any involvement in dog fighting. Ok, so gamebred means the ancestors were fought. So please 'splain to me why it is that NOW a "gamebred" dog is so important, but not a "game" dog. We've already knocked the idea of agility and such out of the water since agility and such things would be impossible with a dog aggressive dog. After all, they aren't running the courses leashed. I guess I'm just not understanding the whole point of harping on gamebred, gamebred, gamebred. I could ALMOST see his/her point IF this was a person who spent time actually DOING something with his/her dogs. They've already admitted that their dogs are just chained in the yard and that they feel that training is unnecessary as long as you can chain them up. He/she SAID this! So someone please 'splain to me where gamebred plays a role in this. Goo, I'm not arguing with you. I just really ain't buying that "gamebred" crap from Laduenda when he/she ADMITS that these dogs aren't trained for any of the events he/she claims to need a gamebred dog for.

[quote name='laduenda']Also I never said I had "game dogs" I said I have gamebred dogs. There is a difference. [/quote] :question: :WTF:

[quote name='alicat613']That is interesting... It would be more interesting :) to know what breeds you both have and what food you are feeding! [/quote] A'ight, since you asked... *deep breath* I have a Lab (about 80 lbs... lost a bit of weight after his hip surgery), Standard Poodle at about 55 lbs, Pit Bull/Boxer mix at 50ish lbs, Mini Schnauzer at 25ish lbs, Male Lhasa Apso (mutant :roll: ) at about 30 lbs (definitely battling weight problems) Female Lhasa Apso at about 16 lbs Chihuahua (another mutant :oops: ) at, get this, close to 20 lbs (we know he's poorly bred :lol: ), Toy Poodle at 8 lbs. Granted, none of these are giant breeds, but I still cannot imagine going through 100 lbs of food a week with 7 dogs! Eeeek! Oh, and I feed Wellness. A 30 lb bag lasts my gang of 8 about a week and a half if I feed them ONLY that. When I supplement with a cooked diet, it stretches much further, of course.

I know I'm a weinie and I'm a cynic where the government is concerned. However, I am really and truly afraid for what might be happening. I'm not going to do the whole plastic and duct tape thing because I just think it would be futile. This sounds horrible, but I'm going to say it, anyway. I have given really serious consideration to swiping a bottle of pentobarbitol (what they use to euthanize animals) from the vet clinic where I work to have on hand "just in case." If full scale war breaks out and I'm facing a horrendous imminent death, I would rather take the swift, painless way out. I guess I'm funny that way. :-?

[quote name='laduenda']I don't know what you guys feed but I only go through two 50lb bags a week and that is with 7 dogs. [/quote] ONLY TWO 50 lb bags a week for SEVEN dogs?? Yikes, I have eight dogs (some small and some large) and a 30 lb bag lasts a week and a half and some of my dogs are STILL fat. I can't get over it.... 100 lbs of food a week for seven dogs. :-?

[quote name='courtnek'] What could be better than that? All of the good and gentle traits of a Golden without the constant grooming? [/quote] Are you kidding?! I have NEVER met a Lab that didn't virtually throw its hair at me. Golden hair may be a bit longer, but it certainly isn't less maintenance as far as deshedding goes. So that knocks that whole "less grooming" theory out of the water. Besides, there are puhlenty of retriever breeds out there with similar grooming requirements. PUHLEEZE don't start trying to convince people that Labs (in general) shed less than Goldens. It would be as irresponsible as the Labradoodle crowd selling those dogs as "hypoallergenic." Maybe since the Goldie hair is a bit longer, it is more noticeable when it's on your couch, rugs, clothes, etc., but trust me when I say Labs shed just as much. That whole "less grooming" thing ain't all it's cracked up to be. :-? Besides, what WORKING traits would one hope to enhance by crossing these two breeds? Anyway, you're just kidding, right?