Hobbit

Deep here is an awsome website. I love this website --- the photographs are very good, the information is wonderful and it even has audio of a wolf howling. You will enjoy it, trust me! Wolves, Dingos, Coyotes, Dogs are from the Canidae family and same Genus (Canis), they are different species > example: Canis is the genus, which includes all of them. Anyway, trying not to be too technical and boring! The website is worth your while to see. [url]http://www.naturalworlds.org/wolf/index.htm[/url]

Nice pic's of your boxer, Smooshie. Deep --- ya gonna think about adopting a Neo??

Deep, I've never seen this place, but you are right! There are some really nice looking dogs on there.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Ol' Jac told her she was a Border Collie! Heck, she don't know --- she's blind .... it's not like she can see herself in the mirror! :wink: :wink:

Roo, I'm with you. I've never ever seen or even heard of a 4 month old in whelp. That is only 16 wks old. Naaaaa......it's just a story those guys made up to make their point. :wink:

Yeah bk, I know you were venting TO me and not AT me. I'm with you on all aspects, it's just been a b+tch trying to convince some people that spaying/neutering is the way to go --- no muss, no fuss and NO neighbor dogs hanging around! :wink: Thanks Mouse. I spoke to my vet at length and he could not offer any case studies. It's easier to win an argument or crusade when you have facts and proof.

[quote name='bk_blue']Oooh playing with fire Hobbit! :wink: Any dog or b**** that is not intended for breeding should be neutered/spayed. To do otherwise is tantamount to cruelty to the poor animal that has to deal with the many health and/or behavioural problems associated with leaving the animal intact. Not to mention the owner who has another pre-menstrual female, or overly aggressive male, to deal with! :) Any dog can have any number of health problems, but surely desexing is a great way to eliminate some of them- and if we are responsible owners acting in the interests of our pets then they should be fixed pronto. Why do you think there are so many poor dogs being subjected to gruesome deaths in shelters worldwide- because people don't neuter their animals. :evil: It is [b]always[/b] the dogs who pay the price for our lack of responsibility. I'm looking on the AVA site but my computer is being slow- but if I find anything I will post it, if someone doesn't beat me to it.[/quote] Sugar, I am NOT against neutering and spaying. Your comment of, [b][i]"many health and/or behavioural problems associated with leaving the animal intact"[/i][/b] where are the case studies? Where is the proof? Now, calm down - put your hackles down, I hear and know what you are saying and AGREE --- hear me, I AGREE --- but in order to make the neuter/spay crusade effective, we - as educated dog people - MUST show the uneducated, unwilling, skeptics THE PROOF or "we" are fighting a losing battle. The poor unfortunate dogs [i]"[b]always[/b] the dogs who pay the price for our lack of responsibility". [/i] IAGREE.

Now playing the devils advocate....in order to have any validation to the information that a non-desexed dog faces the life of cancers and tumors -- someone should post the case studies from the AVMA (if in America) and the AVA (if from Australia). Until someone posts case studies proving this fact, there are still going to be (countless) people out there that will contend that spaying/neutering is not necessary.

There is an ad for "Bassadores" - Bassett/Lab cross, in the newspaper. People will do anything for money!

It's a sticky wicket, huh? I can't tell you if it's getting out of hand, because I am not there. Our Border Collie is the chase dog --- meaning that when she comes out, all the Kelpies crouch and get ready for her to run so they can chase and work her. The BC waits for an opening and when they least expect it and takes off running --- she can fly! She takes great joy in doing this because NONE of them can keep up with her. This is different because she enjoys this and looks forward to the "chase and herd". When the Kelpies can, they "head her" and she stops. You can see her thinking .... then she'll lay down and if anyone looks away, she blasts past them! Too funny. They all want to be first in line to "catch" her. I think he has just found someone to play with that he can dominate, instead of being the dominated one. That is up to you to give Puppy a break or let Jessie play. She is his personal "sheep".... :lol: .

Deep --- I just PM'd ya, open you can open the picture.

AMEN, SISTER!!

[quote name='Gordonmom']I understand what you are trying to say, Hobbit, and I am actually a child welfare advocate also. The only difference when comparing an animals rights to a humans, is that with a human we have the ability to sit down and try to explain to them that with their rights come the responsibility to respect the rights of others. People (hopefully) can be reasoned with to act responsibly. No matter how much I talk to MacKenzie (who, by the way is the smartest dog on earth :D ) she would not get that my neighbor also has rights, so she cannot go killing her cat. I'm hopeing I could get this concept through to a child. As for spaying people, I'm not going to go there either, because we think the same. But hopefully, we can eventually reason with people to see a kinder, gentler society. I know I could never convince MacKenzie (the genius) to just say no if Mr. stud showed up at my door at the right time. And the only reason people don't have the right to drink and drive is because if they did then they would be infringing on the rights of others. A dog doesn't have the right to cross the street because he doesn't know the result that this action would cause him. Humans have rights because I can explain to you that your rights stop where my nose begins. With my dog, her rights stop where I choose them to stop, not when she chooses them to stop, for her own protection and the protection of other people and animals. Your arguments don't neccessarily think that animals should have rights, just that some of the rights of humans should be taken away. Do you think this would be a good thing or a bad thing?[/quote] I think I didn't state the DWI thing correctly --- I do not think a person has the right to place another person in danger because it's HIS right to consume past the intoxication limit. As some people can not understand, nor be reasoned with concerning the rights of others, then they are or should be beyond the realm of being "free" to conduct themselves in such a manner. Like, some people can not be "reasoned" with to stop killing other people. Mr. Stud -- some men can be such sweet talkers. :wink: Animals do have rights: They have the right to be treated with respect (as do humans) They have the right to be cared for and nurtured (as do humans) They have the right to be allowed to live without abuse (as do humans) Some of the human rights taken away? This is just a personal opinion and not meant for a long discussion over who is right or wrong. Yes, I believe that some humans STOP having any rights when they torture, kill, rape or abuse another human being, especially children, old people, or a person that can't fight back. These types of preditors STOP being human when they engage in this type of behaviour. They stop having a right to be called a person. They are the lowest form of life and should be stopped at any cause....and I mean any cause. I have no feelings, compassion, or use for this sort of person. G --- we are in agreement, or rather I am in agreement with what you are saying. I just think that I like dogs (animals) much better than people (as a whole). See, I was raised in a remote area where my only friends were animals and I was never socialized as a child and I tend to bite! :wink:

Deep, the stick is used to get the dog used to distractions --- being hit, poked, stabbed at, etc...so they know NOT to release. They are only to release when the handler tells them to release. The dogs are not hit hard during their initial training. But understand, if they are to be used in the K-9 section of the police dept as a partner....then it is imparative that the trainer know that if, or when, this dog is hit (in a real type situation) if he is going to tuck tail and run .... leaving his handler, OR if he is going to go "postal" and be uncontrollable. A gun (with blanks) is also used and fired to see if the dog is going to give up and run or be distracted.

[quote name='Gordonmom']Well I scored a 60, but I am not an animal rights advocate. [color=red][b]See how closely this parallels humans:[/b][/color] I am an animal welfare advocate. I believe that in society today you cannot give animals rights because they do not have the ability to defend those rights. Here are some examples: You p*** a dog off, he bites you. If he had rights, then this would be OK, because it would be his right to defend himself. I beleive it is in the dogs best welfare to train this dog that biting is unacceptable. I am looking out for the dogs best welfare. [b][color=red]The very same enthusiasm should also be placed on raising a child not to bite and hit when mad or pissed off at another person. [/color][/b] Do I believe that it is my responsibility that as long as I place a pig on this earth that I make sure his stay here, though it may be short, is as pleasant as possible, i.e. look out for his welfare? Yep. [b][color=red]I wish that more people thought this way and treated other people, including their own children with this much respect. [/color][/b] Do I believe that a dog has the right not to be spayed and produce as many puppies as she wants, as that is her right? No. It is my duty to look out for her best welfare. [color=red][b]Not even going to touch this one where people are concerned, but do believe that some people because of their abusive and neglectful nature should not be allowed to have children. The majority of dogs take better care of their "children" then do some people. [/b][/color] Does a dog have the right to cross a six lane highway to play on the other side? [color=red][b]No more right than a person should have to drink while intoxicated and cause death and destruction because of their own total lack of responsibility. [/b][/color][/quote] [color=blue]G -- not disagreeing with you, just making my own personal statement and observations. I had a well thought out plan when I started this but got disrupted so many times...that it didn't come out like I originally planned! [/color][/b]

[quote name='eggrolyn1223']Well, I kinda want to email them but isn't it a bit aggressive?I mean, I'm only 12 and everything so maybe I'm overworrying, but are we supposed to be able to do that?[/quote] Just because you are "ONLY 12" do not EVER think that you do not have an opinion, .... because [b]you do[/b]. Do not EVER think that what you have to say doesn't matter, .... because [b]IT DOES[/b]. A person, rather they want to admit it or not, learns something from everyone they come in contact with --- good or bad, they still learn something. You are valuable as a person and have an opinion. If you feel that you want to express your concern, then do so. If not, then that is okay, too (they listed their email address, so I think their practices are open for discussions and questions). Just remember, as you have your own opinion....so do they. Please don't ever think that just because you are young, that you have nothing of value to add to this world, ... because you do! :wink:

[quote name='eggrolyn1223']I just noticed something: Two of the blue heelers kind or look like rotties..or is it just my weird opinions?[/quote] :o :o Heelers normally do not look like Rotties. Which two are you looking at?

[quote name='roo']WELL I HAD A GOOD LOOK AT THE DOGS :o :o I DID ALSO NOTICE THAT THE BOSTONS AND THE CAIRNES LOOK TOTALLY UNUSED TO BEING HANDLED :x ALL OF THEM SEEM TO BE ALMOST PET QUALITY :evil: THE POMS LOOK MORE LIKE GERMAN SPITZ THAN POMS. I DONT KNOW PRICES OUT THERE, ARE THESE PUPS CHEAP FOR THEIR BREEDS? IT IS A VERY SAD FACT OF LIFE BUT WHILE THERE ARE IDIOTS OUT THERE WILLING TO BUY FROM SCUM LIKE THIS IT WILL CONTINUE, AND THE LIFE OF h*** THESE POOR MITES AND MILLIONS OF OTHERS LIKE THEM WILL ALSO CONTINUE :evil: :evil: :evil: ROO[/quote] They are way over priced for the quality (poor quality) of dogs that they sell. Most are registered with CKC (CONTINENTIAL Kennel Club -- they register anything, just send them your money, no proof needed!). If you ask for pedigrees, she gets really defensive. If you ask for show titles, she gets really defensive. If you ask to see the parents of the pups, they are usually -- "at the ranch working - if it's a Heeler", "at the groomer - if it's a small breed dog", some excuse that non-skilled people usually believe. I think they need some emails from EXPERIENCED dog people asking questions, and when the answers are of the slight or fraudulant nature --- than give them a piece of your mind!

Geez, you know I can NOT stop myself....okay, tobasco sauce on dog poop makes it......cooooome on, you know you want to say it.....hot sh+t.......sorry, just couldn't help myself.

[color=red][b]Yes, and I see your point, too. [/b][/color]

Being that Harley is Aussie/Border Collie he has some serious herding instincts kicking in. He has found someone on his level to play with. I think you said before that Cody was standoffish or grouchy sometimes with Harley (am I remembering this correctly?). Harley has found someone to play with, that he can push around and MAKE play on his terms and this "play toy" is HIS, it's like a kid with a toy....mine, mine, mine -- greedy. He doesn't want to lose his playmate or have anyone take the playmate away. Puppy being smaller, he could accidently hurt her, I would watch them closely and make sure the herding doesn't get out of hand ---- like if she has enough and tries to run, he might get overly excited and "grip" her with his teeth or pounce on her. Border Collies can be possessive and down right nasty when it comes to "their" things or the posessions of their master. I guess the question is: do you let him play with her because he likes to (play with her) --- how does she feel about this? Is she intimadated by him? OR do you nip this behaviour in the bud? He does need to understand that when your sis wants HER puppy back, that it's HERS for the taking and it doesn't end up in a tug-a-war (with Puppy being tugged on). Sometimes, when we pick up one of our adult dogs, the other dogs try to take cheap shots (biting cheap shots). I think that this is because: when a dog "picks" up another dog> this is an aggressive move (for the most part) to hurt/destroy/maime etc...the dog. When we pick up one of our dogs to love on it, we kind of jostle it (looks like shaking, like a bite-shake) and to the other dogs it appears like we are being aggressive and then they think they need to also. Understand? ON the other hand.......dogs are such opportunists that when we are in the act of picking up the dog they view this as a free-for-all to get their cheap shots in because the dog being held can't do a dang thing about it. We also have to be very careful when we set the dog back down to avoid an all out fight. That's when the training that we spend everyday doing pays off. Sometimes, someone will take a cheap shot and bite......they are in big trouble when they do that. Okay,......any thoughts from you guys? Any other ideas?

[quote name='sashagirl']Don't worry K, I know how to get Hobbit... :wink: [img]http://www.sromagazine.com/boards/images/smilies/icon_sheepish.gif[/img][img]http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons/happy/490.gif[/img] [size=7][color=red]OH HOBBIT!!![/color][/size][/quote] THAT IS WAY TOO FUNNY! I went to look at some sheep today!

[quote name='avaloniaboerboele']Translated literaly from afrikaans we call them Redcat in SA. They are also called Lynx. And their ears are their most beautifull body part:-? :-? They are allmost extinct because they are thought tot be vermon because of killing farmers young cattle and sheep. Their temperament is very dominant. fighting fit and solitary - a male would be the wrong choise, even if newtered.[/quote] Hey Ava....totally agree about the beautiful ears! Lynx are gorgeous animals. Personally, I think they should have been left where they belong....in the wild. Just my opinion.

Oh Gooey, try to explain the "double dapple" bullshi+ to a doxie breeder! They just do not understand........MERLE is a merle, by another other name it's a MERLE. MERLE to MERLE will produce lethal genes. They will argue till the cows come home --- which if you ever had cows, they never come home.

Greeting cards and calendars! Such a nice picture.