Hobbit

[quote name='marble']great, i think i'm going to puke. i tried to find a bag to check the name but apparently i threw it away after putting the food in the bin. it's nutr-max but now i can't remember what the vowel was. hobbit, what do you feed your dogs ?[/quote] We feed "Diamond" Lamb and Rice adult and Diamond Puppy.

I'm still trying to believe that a 9 month old *puppy* could be adequately trained as an *attack* dog. Back yard breeder ...... selling to an inexperienced person = disaster.

I HAVE thought about that......then thought about the divorce that would occur shortly afterwards....then the custody fight over the dogs and dog-child support, then there's the visitation rights.....could get ugly.

K we teach the "back up", also --- it really comes in handy sometimes. I guess your big'un's have the beep, beep, beep going on when they back? :lol: :lol: :wink: Goo -- that may be a sticky situation since, herding dogs, ours at least, we don't want them *looking* at us during training, only want them paying attention to the stock. I never require or even ask our herding dogs to look at us, because I want them paying attention to the stock instead of asking me what to do next. I bet she is smart enough to catch on. Just don't say "go around" with her hitched to the sled!! :o

Splen -- who are her breeders? Sire & dam?

Splen --- if you were closer, I guarantee Paige would have a *forever* home with us.

[b][color=red]Splen --- here are some interesting facts about Moss and Rojo.[/color][/b] [img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/7b5fe9f3/bc/Mail+Attachments/Moss_Templeton.jpg?bc24n79AQgkyIfRZ[/img][img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/7b5fe9f3/bc/Mail+Attachments/Moss.Templeton.jpg?bc24n79A6FAc6rtp[/img] [img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/7b5fe9f3/bc/Mail+Attachments/ROJO.jpg?bc24n79AmS1EYyei[/img]

Are you asking for the "dogs" sake; the "breeds" sake; the "humans" sake or just ethically speaking?

Heelers (usually - said this because there are exceptions to every rule) have a strong prey drive. They LOVE any game involving chasing something. Our Heelers favorite game is chasing the bottle. A regular plastic drink bottle tied on the end of a 100 foot light weight rope. HOURS of fun. Throw it out there (as far as possible) and drag it back with everyone chasing it. OR, drag is behind a 4 wheeler (slow, of course). They like tennis balls, but it's like bk said, "you threw it, YOU go get it and bring it back". They normally herd the ball to a stop and then look at me to come throw it again. Hide and seek is fun --- of course they ALWAYS find me! Hiding a treat and telling them to "find it" is something ours like. Just plain old squeeky toy round up is always a laugh.

[quote name='Jacsmom']Quick note: Pointer and English Setter crosses are actually called "drop" pups and can make [b]extremely[/b] good bird dogs!! Of course this is due to the fact that both breeds are birdy! I do not know of any breeders that try to breed them (thaks goodness) but at least they are not shipped to the shelter as they have a purpose and job which they do very well! :) Love your post cairnmom! :D[/quote] Way off topic, here....but did you see the show on bird dogs the other day? I think it was on the APL channel. I'm not sure, as I was surfing and it caught my eye. It was GREAT. The dogs were wonderful and well trained --- so beautiful. [size=2]I'm a closet bird-dog lover! And a closet GSD lover, and a closet....oh heck! I just love dogs! [/size]

[quote name='bk_blue'][quote name='Majik']BLUE HEELER mix puppies, 8wks old, tails docked, $25ea. [/quote] This makes me especiallly mad. Any fool knows that the heeler needs its tail while working to act as a rudder, why do some people insist on docking it???? :mad: There is a completely different breed of dog- the Stumpy-Tailed Cattle Dog- which has no tail by nature.[/quote] Girls (bk and Jacsmom) : That is such a soap box for me. I have preached upon deaf ears FOR YEARS and absolutely will never, ever dock my Heeler pups tails. I don't care if the Pope himself asked me to do it. People who dock tails are ignorant of the breed and just absolutely twist me to no end. [size=2]I think I'm venting ... ALOT today..... [/size]:oops:

[quote name='splendidbc']I agree that Paige should go to a herding situation if at all possible, and I appreciate your good thoughts. I also have some information balancing on the other side. Trial dogs often go through many, many homes in a lifetime as some trialers search for "the perfect dog." 10 - 20 homes is not uncommon. I want to be careful that Paige is not used as a commodity that way - she's too soft and affectionate to be tossed from hand to hand like that. The other thing is, if she has been too traumatized by her previous experience of herding, she may have bad habits and aversions that last a lifetime and only frustrate triallers - thereby increasing her chances of bouncing hand to hand. I will keep her and work carefully with her for a while until I can better guage how she'll come out of this. The reason that other dog sports might be an option is that she will not have been traumatized by them and can perhaps happily re-focus her drive. Not the best of all worlds, but a possible answer. Still, my fingers are crossed that she will continue to progress in herding and get over the damage done. Thanks again for your good ideas and good wishes on Paige's behalf.[/quote] Yes, agree with you. I MUST remember that NOT all people view dogs as I do... :wink: There are some trial people who are no better than the idiots that shouldn't have dogs in the first place. That was hateful for me to say that, but it is true. There are NO perfect dogs, NO perfect trial dog, they are JUST dogs that may be better at some things than others. And just because they have a flaw here and there, doesn't give anyone the right to discard the dog and start over. I think I'm venting, here. Didn't mean to get off on that. What ever the *DOG* is happiest doing, as long as it's constructive and not destructive ---- is the way to go. Splen --- do stay here, too. Love talking to you and thanks for taking Paige.

Well, girlie.....get brushed up on those duck recipes! Ouchy!! You know I am kidding.....[size=2]duck is rather good, if prepared properly[/size]. :wink:

That is great that you even GOT a reply! You know, something that WE take for granted or that we think is common knowledge or common sense is NOT even in the realm of some people's thinking! Like...WE would read a law that said: A person can kill and consume meat raised on their own property as long as the meat is not sold or given to another person. NOW...we would NEVER in a million years EVEN remotely think that it is OKAY to kill our dogs or cats and eat them. Would we? NOW, reread the LAW --- it stated NOTHING about what kind of animal the meat can come from. It is open to ANYTHING. NOR does it say ANYTHING about HOW the meat is taken (killed, what methods are allowed to be used ... humane or otherwise barbaric). Nothing is mentioned that the person can not torture the animal first........see where this is going? That is why it is very hard sometimes to make these rules. Because ALL the angles and insane thoughts must be taken into consideration.

[quote name='splendidbc']Thanks, Hobbit! I've been to the ABCA site before, but hadn't looked at their message boards. Looks like a great hit! I'll have fun reading and joining in. :D You asked about Paige's Pedigree. The most famous name in Paige's Pedigree is four generations back to John Templeton's Moss I-103923. There's also Abingdon's Rojo ABC-40766 and Savage Spur ABC-74366, Kuykendall's Flame N-52537 and Queen N-54351, and Russell Drake's Lad I-139419. I worked Paige on sheep again today, and it's fabulous to watch her blossom! Poor thing was put on cattle as a puppy by a guy who openly admits he had no idea how to train her and didn't want to bother to learn (she's a BC, she should just "know" :x ). Of course he got frustrated and mad and finally called border collie rescue! At least he didn't put a bullet in her ear as many ranchers would. Paige is going to have to work through some of the bad habits and survival skills she picked up from her former owner, but I bet she'll make a sweet little trial dog! She's got loads of eye but is not sticky and tons of drive but is not manic. I'm going to really take my time to find just the right placement for this loving little girl! She'd also make an awsome agility, frisbee or flyball competitor. I used to have the fastest BC at our training facility, but Paige has extra gears my Lily doesn't even have! Thanks again for the suggestion![/quote] ANYTHING from the Kuykendall lines have been exceptional dogs, and I mean EXCEPTIONAL at herding. Unfortunately, that is the mental ignorance with some people when they buy herding bred dogs...."they should just know". THEY DO, but they need MANAGING, too. They DO have natural instinct to herd (some do at least, those that are selectively bred) but, DO need managing in the direction that a person wants them to do in. With Paige's genetics, as I see them from what you have posted, I really hate to see those genetics lost to spaying (personal opinion, here). If all the good dogs are spayed...what's left? Bad ones. Bad habits can be cured, bad genetics can't. If she works like her bloodlines say she should, she can be in the top of the herding class. Her bloodlines say she should be placed into a herding family (with experience in Border Collies) with experience in herding (working livestock, trialling...do what she was bred to do). Please take no offense at to what I am fixing to say, she needs to be a herd dog, not a sports dog. She was BRED to herd livestock and will be happy doing what her genetics will be tugging at her to do (at least after she has been healed mentally from the bad experiece with the first owner). I am certain you can find an appropriate home for her on the ABCA BC Board. Good luck!

You could get some Pigmy goats for them to herd around, they are small....smaller than some dogs. :wink:

bk: Ducks being from the prey catagory and dogs being from the preditor catagory....see where this is going? 8) Seriously, I have MANY horror stories concerning live fowl and Heelers (Hum...and cats too, actually). They have such a high prey drive that ANY movement is like a moth to the flame, so to speak. Sometimes it starts out as play, then escalates into a slaughter. It will depend on the dog and his interest or lack there of. Just from personal experiences where fowl vs Heelers are concerned.....the outcome has not been good. I have even *started* puppies on ducks (herding ducks), works very well, but still would not trust ANY dog with fowl or with any animal of prey unsupervised. ---- Yes, I know you wouldn't just set them both down with a bowl of cereal in front of the TV and walk off...... :o :lol:

[quote name='bk_blue']Ohhhh they are so gorgeous, kind of like a Weimaraner. I want one!!! :D[/quote] ANOTHER thing, on the Dobie website, the lady with the blue/rust Dobie in the first picture.....got that visual? Don't you think, she looked an awful lot like her dog?? OUCH!

[quote name='bk_blue']Ohhhh they are so gorgeous, kind of like a Weimaraner. I want one!!! :D[/quote] Kelpies come in a blue & tan --- come on....come to our side (you know you want to). Go to: and click on Colors and Description [url]http://www.kelpiesinc.com/[/url] Go to: and click on A Look at Kelpie Colors, then click on Blue colored or Blue & tan [url]http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/6392/index.html#THE[/url]

[b][color=red]Cowards.....come down and play! [/color][/b] [img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/d3393060/bc/Kelpie+pups/Kelpie+pup+%26+goats+in+trough+110202.jpg?bc4vG79Ai43y7jlm[/img]

[color=red][b]I think the look says it all. [/b][/color] [img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/d3393060/bc/Kelpies/Kelpie+%26+goat+closeup+110202.jpg?bc4vG79AQ07CIhHI[/img]

Here is a site with the blue/rust color. I'd post a picture, but it's copywrited. [url]http://www.silverdogs.com/dogpages/dilute/dilute1.html[/url]

Of course, I used "him" generically her. I know Goo is a girl. :wink:

Herding dogs must know their left from their right, also. I've used the method that Carolk9's suggested and had success and also a different one. I sit down on a stool and place a table in front of me or anything that protrudes out so the dog must walk around it. I get some soft treats and start with the dog on either side. If the dog is on my right; I show the dog the treat (with my left hand) and tell him to go left, all the time I am leading him around the table (in front of me) with the treat. Then do the reverse, using my right hand and tell him to go right. After he has the directions down pat, we start on the "go around". It works very well for some, some cheat and try to go over the top or underneath. Of course after he knows the directions, you can wean him off the treats.

That's interesting, could you post some of her pedigree? I have a friend that has a personal data base of pedigrees. Go to this website and post on the Border Collie forum, there are lots of Border Collie folks there that may be able to help. [url]http://www.bordercollie.org/abca.html[/url] Scroll down to "BC Boards".