Hobbit

Glad Perry's okay and pray he will continue to recover.

We didn't get that far, Jacsmom. I told him I wasn't comfortable with the Rimadyl or Ectogesic because of the side effects. So he's on something else from the SAME family --- NOT happy with the side effects of: POSSIBILITY OF LIVER AND KIDNEY DAMAGE. Boy, I will be so very glad when this is all over. I am NOT an advocate of medicating with something that can cause worse effects.

Going tomorrow (Friday) to see my boy. The Tech just called and said his attitude was 100% better today and he wasn't as depressed. Well, he's feeling a little abandoned by us and has no idea why he's there without us. So, it's time to visit the boy. She said everything else looks good, so far. He still won't put any weight on the leg and they have started physical therapy. She said he never complained, just done everything they asked of him. He gets to sit in on their lectures and discussions after the rounds. She said everyone dotes on him and he really likes it. That has helped to improve his attitude, too. I think that visiting will improve his attitude, too. I don't want him thinking that he has been abandoned (that breaks my heart).

Any news on Perry??

Roo and HF --- I agree with what you two are saying. I think I'm reading that maybe Lilly is being praised for her actions unknowingly by Aroura. The present was Lilly's to begin with and should have never been allowed to be taken by Tessa. Wrapping presents are just a little too much for me --- but, each to their own. Presents to a dog is PROPERTY, territory and is very serious business. Aroura did you pet or cottle Lilly afterwards?

[quote name='bk_blue'][quote name='Hobbit']Male dogs usually do lots of posturing, chest bumping, name calling, making faces, circling, tails up, ears up, head up, very rigid appearance. [/quote] Sorry if I sound like a bimbo but how do they go about calling each other names? :-?[/quote] bk -- I love ya! As I sit here, I am trying not to pee my pants laughing (not at you, but with you). I was making a correlation between men and dogs. Name calling, gesturing, finger pointing ---- not really wanting to fight but putting on the show (as if they want to rip each other apart, but really don't want to spill their beer).

[quote name='"HazelNutMeg"'][quote name='Hobbit']I've taken Hazel LOTS around people, ever since she was a little puppy (weird that she's aggressive still, but she is getting SOOOOOOOO much better!!! :) ) I know how to control her. Everytime I have her around people for the first time, I put the muzzel on her first (which I hate doing, but it's for her best and others of course) and I make sure that EVERYONE around me knows what she's capible of. I once had her at Cottonwood Park when we had a large town gathering sort of thing, and there were these three little girls who came running up to Hazel, right away I told them to stop. I checked her muzzel and Gentle Leader, making sure they were succure, and had Haze laydown. I sat almost over top of her, staying relaxed, but ready to grab her if she tried anything. I told the little girls to ONE AT A TIME come SLOWLY up to Hazel, they did so, and I had them sit a few feet away from her. They asked me all sorts of questions about Hazel, and told me about their pets at home. Once I felt Hazel was more comfrotable, I told them to come a little closer. ONce she was comfrotable with that, I reached out touched the little girl's hand, getting the scent on me, then pet Hazel's face. Soon enough the girls were petting Hazel. With slow steps like this, I was slowly able to take the muzzel off (starting back at phase one with the little girls away from her again). After a while, they were giving her treats and getting her to sit pretty and such. I've also had Hazel at an agility Demo once, TONES of people around, she did GREAT! She LOVED all that attention, but as soon as someone came close to her (or wrose, ME!) she'd start growling and such. I kept her by my side as much as I could, so I could tell people to stay away/don't make any sudden moves around her, and when she wasn't with me, she was in her crate which has a "BEWARE OF DOG" sign on all sides of it! LOL It was also covered with a tarp so that she could feel safe. (which did work). I'm not saying right now today I'm guna run out there with my dog off lead and start getting her to preform, she does need some more work/training, but she's improved SO much! She use to not be able to have anyone even in her SIGHT! Now she's able to meet new people, with my slow introducing method! :D ~ Shara Slorstad & Hazel Nut Meg ~[/quote] To answer your question: I am not lashing out at you and you've already made up your mind that you know how to handle your dog --- that is fine, but I'm going to respond anyway. Whenever someone comes around, rather you know it or not or will admit it --- your blood pressure rises (because you are afraid that she will bite someone or you are subconsciously fearing the "unknown" at what she may do or how she may react to a situation) and Hazel can sense this. This is causing her to become fearful and since you are pulling her closer to you she is thinking that you are afraid (when dogs are afraid, they get closer together). Her flight or fight instinct takes over and since she can not flee (which she would like to, because she is afraid), she shows fear aggression.

[quote name='StarGaze']So sorry, Hobbit. That's so wicked. Your poor pup at [i]her[/i] mercy. Too bad none of us live near you...to go there and look for your pup. :( We caught a guy leaving our home (an illegal)...took our kids social security cards and one of our tvs! Same story as you...police wouldn't do anything, not enough evidence. How can [b][i]seeing [/i][/b]someone do something not be enough?! Connie[/quote] I know what you mean Connie. It's crazy. You would think that "seeing" would be enough, but now days it isn't. Now days, a signed confession with DNA evidence isn't enough. Oh and let's not forget you can have the blood of your murdered wife inside the vehicle that YOU are driving --- and still get off FREE!

You girls are SO right. A bitch will hold a grudge and never, ever forget or forgive the other girl. It might be years that they've been apart and the first time they are back together --- the fight is on! The time before, during and after their cycle is the worse --- basically ALL the time!! :roll:

Now, the vet has decided to keep him until Wednesday or Thursday of NEXT week. He decided this because Guy won't use his leg. I stressed "won't" or "can't". He "seems" to think, "won't". They took some x-rays today and said everything looks good. He wants to take some more on Friday to make sure the elbow is healing properly. Weather permitting --- we are taking a trip to see Maguyak ("Guy") on Friday.

Good quality food, multivitamins that contain fatty acids (Omega 3 & 6) are good to use. Benzole Peroxide shampoo helps to flush the mites out of the hair follicles in an effort to allow the hair to grow back in.

[quote name='mouseatthebusstop']:( I did not know there was a problem with Rimadyl Poppy has been on it for 2 years with her arthritis. Without it we would have had to put her to sleep because of the pain she would be in :cry:[/quote] Mouse, do you periodically have Poppy checked for normal liver and kidney functions? Just me, but there are lots of information on the web (reputable sites) that discuss the side effects of the NSAID's (Rimadyl) and alternatives to them. Lab's seem to be sensitive to them, also.

I'll be waiting to hear from you as soon as you can post about Perry-winkle! :wink:

[quote=Bentley's Dad]Why not an ACD? Theyre alot like BC's but with an off switch (so to speak) ex: when im on the computer or tired he usually will just lay down instead of trying to start a game, but when play time comes he's a lunatic Theyre great for Flyball, agility, and are the 9th or 10th (cant remember) smartest breed (to be fair BC is #1) Bentley used to herd people alot, but he's not so much anymore, it started leaving when he was about 4-5 months, after his big boy teeth grew in. Well, Bentley is licking the mac and cheese residue out of a bowl from my lap... now he's sniffing the moniter and making some big nasty snot marks... now he's sitting by the steps, i guess its tennis ball time! :roll: :D[/quote] Do you want to trade? I am unable to find the OFF switch on our ACD's! :P Most ACD's do NOT make good apartment dogs and become fence runners when left in the back yard (in town).

[quote name='Goblin']Thanks for the positive responses guys! I have not minded till recently, in fact most people thanked me after rebuking an owner who was not controlling their dog. But I have started to feel quite alone in my fight to keep the dog park a safe place for one and all. I guess what is weighing on my mind is where does this end? .... but I also don’t want to end up in jail for it as well...... Maybe I should post a sign that says off leash does not mean out of control! :agrue: Regards, Goblin.[/quote] Unfortunately, there are those that refuse to take stand in life and depend on someone else to do that for them --- it seems they have found that person in you. I know how you feel and know how alone you feel. I am one of those persons that continually try to right the wrong and have no problem with taking a stand for what is right.

[quote name='avaloniaboerboele']You get yourself a shock apparatus - the ones they use for self defence and voila - you have super control over all your dogs!![/quote] Ava, if you are referring to a "cattle prod" --- this only makes a dead-set-on-fighting ACD just fight harder! :roll: They are dog aggressive (most are at least), because they are so dominant in personality.

[quote name='gooeydog'][quote]One person can not break up the fight, because the other dog is going to think they are being helped. [/quote] And the dog being pulled out/broken off is likely to feel extremely vulnerable since it can't defend itself, and may bite you in an attempt to get you to let go. Then you'll be bleeding on the floor and the dogs will be back at it :roll:[/quote] Goo, you are so right. Redirected aggression! Everyone gets bit, including the person.

[quote name='Carolk9s'][quote name='Hobbit']Male dogs usually do lots of posturing, chest bumping, name calling, making faces, circling, tails up, ears up, head up, very rigid appearance. Females on the other hand, will just get after it. They are worse to fight than the males. They don't waste energy threatening each other, they just fight. [/quote] Hobbit, you are so right on this. Jesse BSD has NEVER been in an actual fight. Posturing and name calling sure. Both girls have indeed been in fights. When Brittany was younger she liked to start fights I swear just for the fun of it. There was a period of a few years that she never was in a fight. Candy is getting scrappier as she matures, gonna have to keep a close eye and leash on her. The girls will once in a while fight with each other and will fight with other dogs, male or female. Candy will also rush between Jesse and another dog who gets in his face, I've seen her do this twice so far. She will snap and drive the other dog away from Jesse. Guess he's her boy toy and no one better mess with him.[/quote] I don't worry about the boys as much as I do about the girls. We know which males (neutered and intact) not to let out together --- even working they take cheap shots at each other until the other one is just so mad he can't see straight. I KNOW some of them fight for the fun of it and just for the pure aggravation and just because they are hateful and like being mean to the other girl. Just hateful bitches, especially before they cycle. Candy and her boy-toy -- :lol: :lol: Yep, we have some females that are sure that the other dog is "their property". :lol: You know -- men are just like male dogs when it comes to fighting!! And women are just female dogs when it comes to fighting! If I had to chose, I'd rather fight a man anyday than a woman. Because a man will posture around, bump chests, then go have a beer with you ---- a woman will torture you, then beat the tar out of you and you'll never get a beer! :lol:

My opinion is that Hazel is feeding off of you and will become more aggressive instead of less aggressive. Sounds more of a dominance problem, factored in with praise (unknowingly) for being aggressive (either fear aggression or territory aggression). Just my opinion.

Ground pepper is like pepper spray, it will work on some dogs but will not work on others. If a person tries to break up a dog fight by grabbing the tail, the tail could be broken and the person is setting themself up for a dog bite (redirected aggression). The "wheel barrow" method will still get you dog bit if you are not carefull. There is no safe way to break up a dog fight. The best way to is watch body language and stop it before it happens. Sometimes, though, it starts very quickly with no warning. Male dogs usually do lots of posturing, chest bumping, name calling, making faces, circling, tails up, ears up, head up, very rigid appearance. Females on the other hand, will just get after it. They are worse to fight than the males. They don't waste energy threatening each other, they just fight. Yelling and screaming only adds fuel to the fire, as does using a newspaper. Water doesn't work for us because they all like water and are not opposed to being wet. I've only had to choke one heeler bitch down because she would not let go and had ahold of the other female's throat (which could not breath and was fading fast). Since our dogs know that we are alpha and do not put up with that sort of nonsense; we can stop it before it happens. There is always that one or two that will challenge our authority and would rather face the consequences than to not fight. Normally, when this happens we can usually break it up verbally. One person can not break up the fight, because the other dog is going to think they are being helped. Aroura --- let's see: you gave Lilly the present [b]first[/b], right; thus making it her property? Then Tessa took it or you gave it to Tessa?

The vet wants us to wait until he is out of the intensive care unit. So, I guess I will refrain from camping out at the hospital....at least for today. We are still discussing the post op pain management. I don't want him on Etogesic or Rimadyl. As soon as I hear from the Dr this afternoon, I'll let you guys know what he said.

Thanks Horsefeathers, that is very kind. Everyone has been so supportive and I appreciate it very much. I feel the same for Perry --- wishing him total recovery for a long and happy life. It's hard because we can't explain it to them like you can a child or an adult. Guy just went with the Tech and didn't make a fuss. He was so trusting and I'm not going to let anything happen to him; but I know that he must have pain medications. Hopefully, the witch doctor can help. I must get to bed --- until tomorrow.....

HF, THANKS --- I can wait for the witch doctor. He is on Butorphanol (I think that is what she said) right now, but they want to change him to Rimadyl within the next day or two. From what I've read, the #1 side effect is vomiting and diarrhea (gastrointestinal distress). The Tech said he vomited as he was coming out of anesthesia; it does make some dogs sick and plus if he doesn't eat 3 to 4 squares (meals) a day, he'll vomit. He normally has free choice food, so he can nibble any time he feels necessary. The vomitting did not occur until after his surgery in August to have his leg pinned. That has been brought up SEVERAL times -- we got the deer in the headlight look.

Some of our Kelpies carry Scanlon's Butch in their bloodline, as well as other famous working lines. We have Kelpies as well as Australian Cattle Dogs that are our main working dogs. We don't cross the two breeds. They each have their purpose and function (both work and are companions). The black/tan is a dominant color; so it would be obvious to tell if an ACD (blue) had been bred to a Kelpie (the pups would be colored like a Kelpie). The Anatolians are used to deter the coyotes from coming in and near the yard around the house and barns. They are not bred and neither are the three Border Collies. I get concerned when someone has 15 different breeds! :o It all boils down to ethics and knowledge.

Yep, I'm with you Gigi! Throwing the salt over my shoulder and looking for a bald man to rub his head ---- :wink: