Hobbit

[quote name='Jacsmom']I am assuming (oh that bad word :oops: ) that by NC they are referring to a DVM at the State University? Which would be excellent for Guy and you both! They are excellent there and extremely knowledgeable... Yeah ADVICE on what though and can I talk to the person in NC..Like NOW! Okay Guy think sheep...okay maybe PUG!! :wink:[/quote] Yes, a DVM at the University in NC. He was the one that viewed the x-rays, checked over the calculations of the halo (to make sure they were correct) and is continuing to view the x-ray's (via computer scans). The Dr here wanted to make sure the procedure was done correctly ( :o :o ). And wanted a second opinion before he done any procedure. We've asked for a conference call with him on Wednesday. The tech called last night and said he is continuing to improve and is willing to do anything they ask of him. He has become quite the little "man" on campus! I'm sure they tell all the owners that!! They are taking more x-rays today to check the elbow and the overall view of the leg.

I agree with Newfie and Roo. Genetics are the foundation and should be what your breeding program is based upon. You can have the prettiest dog alive, but he and/or she can produce genetic monsters. I'm saying look deeper than just looks (phenotype), look at the genetics. If you are well versed in genetics than you will know what kind of litter you will produce by mating which dog to which bitch. The majority of the time you will know what the pups will look like, color, coat, eye color, temperment, abilities, genetic health, etc... genetics does have a way of humbling you, sometimes (and you get surprises that you didn't expect!).

[quote name='working koolie']Yes I was thinking that too bensam I know of a few breeders who have two or 3 breeds of dogs (working dogs that is) and there is always a cloud of doubt over whether there dogs are pure bred or not lets face it with working dogs your using them everyday bitch comes into season BAM ! you got a cross bred dog but hey it looks like the mother well call it a heeler . Lets face it the dogs need to be exercised everyday at least with one breed your always concentrating on your next improvement to the breed imagine having to do it 2 or 3 times at once :o[/quote] When our females are cycling, we only work those females together and separate from the males. They pretty much cycle when they are supposed to --- so I know when they are fixing to come in and can tell by their "attitudes". We do have some very athletic females that do not cycle at all because they are so "in shape". Nothing to worry about, they are just athletes.

[quote name='Crested']Hobbit: I can't help beeing offended by what you said, because first of all I'm VERY much against puppy mills and back-yard-breeders. Secondly, there isn't a word in english (that I know of) wich would exacly mean "jalostus". So I looked it up in a book, but it said that "jalostus" is to improve something. But in this case what I mean, it doesn't. So I don't know how to explain what "jalostus" and "jalostaa" means. I got Ben when he was a puppy, yes. By what you wrote I can assume that you don't know much of Chinese Cresteds. [b][color=red]Yes, I do know about Chinese Cresteds --- I couldn't figure out how when you got Ben he suddenly grew 8 more teeth --- not knowing that you got him while he was a puppy. I was under the impression that you got him when he was an adult, or that when he was an adult, he grew 8 more teeth --- Must be the language barrier between us. [/color][/b] They don't have full teeth (like none of the hairless breeds). The only teeth that are required are front, corner and back teeth... I'm really bad at explaining, but I found this picture on the net wich mabye helps you understand what I mean. Here is a set of a dogs lower jaw. [url]http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/pregastric/labteeth.jpg[/url] Now on cresteds the jaw would look a bit diffirent... Because the P1, P2, P3 and P4 are not required. (on neither jaw) On Powder Puffs they are, but not on hairless ones. Here is another page with a couple better pics... [url]http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/pregastric/dogpage.html[/url] On each picture, take away all the Premolars. THAT is how a Cresteds mouth could look like. Ben has 28 teeth... That's VERY good for a TRUE hairless. Hairy Hairless' (the ones you have to shave so they would look hairless) some haven't got ANY premolars. Guess how much it would do to the breed if every Crested would have FULL set of teeth! And what you said about the Pug. That's what I ment with "jalostus" ("improvement"). [b][color=darkred]That is not an improvement -- an improvement is to better the breed, not hurt it. Breeding for a shorter muzzle, thus causing breathing problems is NOT improving the breed. An improvement would be to breed OUT skin problems, breed OUT cardiac malfunctions, breed OUT epilepsy, breed OUT any health problems (like PRA, CEA, Hip dysplasia), etc.... Asthetics (the looks) should be secondary to major health problems. Teeth should be secondary to skin problems, eye, ear, nose and other major health problems. [/color][/b] And how can I be a back-yard-breeder if I allredy have for a year collected information about breeding. Would a back-yard-breeder try to improve herself and try to be open to ideas? Would a back-yard-breeder make herself crazy tryeing to think of the perfect combination between two dogs? Would a back-yard-breeder care about where he or she would put her puppies?? [color=red][b]Again, must be the language barrier, because you are saying something different here than in previous posts. [/b][/color] Sorry, but I don't think I will EVER be a back-yard-breeder.[/quote]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!'] ....routinely begin antibiotics immediately following any kind of major surgery instead of waiting for a potential problem to arise. I would think that, too, especially with a "foreign object" being introduced and affixed there. Of course, that's just me. I'm just surprised he wasn't started on antibiotics earlier... I tend to be cynical....hopping mad (read extremely concerned?), too. BREATHE... dogs who are deeply bonded to their owners (as is obviously the case here) are extensions of ourselves. They feel what we feel and our distress becomes their distress. [/quote] We were told that he would be on antibiotics imediately after surgery --- hum...someone must have forgotten this. Then, the tech said he's been in contact with an expert in North Carolina for advice ......... WHAT ADVICE? She was dead silent, then said that the Dr would be able to tell me more when he spoke to me. Okay, let me speak to him -- of course, he was unavailable; okay, have him to call me. He hasn't called (not that I was holding my breath). SO, MONDAY -- he will or someone with the title of DVM after their name will speak to me. Cynical? You bet! I don't trust a soul out there, been taken and lied to too much. You are right --- Guy can sense my (our) feelings and it's important to be happy, hopeful, and encouraging when around him. Happy thoughts, happy actions and tons of encouragement is what he needs. So, if I start getting the urge to smack the vet, we should step outside --- right?? :lol: :lol:

[quote name='Jacsmom']Okay I am trying to keep calm here seeing how he is your boy and all BUT [b]starting [/b] antibiotics!! :evil: Okay Guy went in Tuesday and then this showed more than likely Thursday evening... from the way it sounds.. What the *bleep* are they thinking... (breathe) And have they x-rayed again to be sure that the wires are not caught in a bind or dragging or anything...or that everything is in place as it should be? (breathe) Now sense kicks in...drainage is normal as long as it is clear. Swelling as long as there is not alot of heat in the area.. Jac's area drained from using his leg..(poured fluid eventually) Swelled some put no heat around or in the area.. Okay I am sorry... I am sure that did not help :oops: Fingers are still crossed and I am sure he will be fine..He just needed to see his family!! :wink:[/quote] No appology necessary ---- I said and reacted the SAME way!! Then settled down and thought rationally; the leg is trying to repair itself, so there will be a serum discharge. It's those little words that we hang up on, like: "Guy's leg has a discharge". NOT thinking of serum, I thought DISCHARGE as being a pussey, ozzing, infected mess! :oops: oh yeah, I said the same thing --- "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING....JUST STARTING ANTIBIOTICS!?!" Ooohhh, yeah. That's my boy in there, not "just a dog", but my best friend, my reason for getting up in the morning, my light at the end of a very long dark tunnel. I think she could tell that I was holding my composer as to NOT snap her head off. We talked a long time last night about Guy. She appologized for not telling me that his leg is cleaned everyday --- right after I asked if someone had forgotten to autoclave the instruments ---- !? And that she should have been more descriptive about the "discharge". I was and am concerned about an infection in the bone from the wires that are running thru it. They have taken several x-rays (radio-graphs) since the surgery on Tuesday. I'm still not convinced that he is doing "okay" as she says. He is scheduled to have more x-rays on Monday.

bk I can feel your frustration! We have two diggers and two fence climbers. They don't go anywhere, just want to be "free". I understand about the buried fence --- fence is not cheap. And especially since you don't own the house you're living in, hard to make improvements!! Don't blame you one that. It worries me too, leaving the dogs in the house while we are gone.

I agree with Roo. How would you like it if someone chased you around and beat on you all the time? The mental damage that it's doing to her is uncalled for and unacceptable. If he truly does have a medical condition, then what's going to stop him from seriously injuring the dogs? Or worse, another person? Aroura --- you have given conflicting stories several times. Just a question for Trinity and some others: Why would Aroura want to reestablish Tessa as the alpha dog over Lilly?

Newfie and Corgi --- take their advice about the treats. [color=red](haha, this is edited, because it's not exactly what I was trying to say --- trying to say: Egg, take Newfie and Corgi's advice on using treats --- Miss Kitty's nose was in my eye, my ear, my nose, on my toes, my cheek, ..... very hard to concentrate with her trying to get my attention!!)[/color] You really don't know how lucky you are --- with our pups > NO FEAR. They will jump off anything, climb on anything, walk up or down anything. It would be a relief to not have a heart attack everytime one hollers, "watch me!!" and jumps off something really high! :wink: Stairs -- no problem; ladders -- no problem (we make sure there are no standing ladders anywhere); round bales of hay -- no problem, they climb up and slide down.....no fear. They make us crazy, though.

Crested you are confusing what "IMPROVEMENT" means. Improvement, to a breeder, means improving the breed GENETICALLY, not just phenotypically --- but geneotypically. The problems with the Pugs, were not an improvement genetically --- they were an asthetic attribute that some breeders wanted in an effort to make the Pug look more human (so they would look like a baby) and to sell more puppies. I can only assume that you acquired Ben when he was a puppy? Since teeth do not magically appear. A dog ONLY has room in their mouth (because of the length and width of their jaw) for so many teeth. Any more than that -- the mouth becomes crowded and the teeth growing in causes the other teeth to become crooked and/or misplaced. So what you are saying is that you are going to breed for "good teeth" only? So...he has bad skin, is not quality (substandard) enough to be a champion --- but by golly he had good teeth? And that's all you care about passing on to future generations is GOOD TEETH. I won't appologize --- you will be placed in the category of a back-yard-breeder. But, ALL your pups will have GOOD TEETH! They won't be show quality, will probably be substandard according to the standards of AKC, and they will have skin problems ---- but --- hey they will have GOOD TEETH!

[i]Everyone who expressed interest in the OFA database, yes you do need the full name to search.....or if the dog has a kennel name in front of their registered name you can use that and then search through all the dogs that kennel has registered to find the one you are looking for. If there is no kennel name, then you can go to the AKC store page and find the full name using the registration #. [/i] Trinity -- you don't need the entire name to search the data base. You can put a name in and the data base will "soundex" it, meaning it will display every dog with that name in it (if there aren't 1000's).

If a dog is determined to dig out, poop isn't going to stop him. And you can't put poop all the way around the fence (the smell would be pretty bad). Electric fence on the bottom of you existing fence, or concrete like Corgilady said, or bury wire (that could get expensive) --- how long are you gone? If you aren't gone too long, what about crating him (inside the house)? Securing him in the laundry room? Frustrating trying to keep a dog IN, that really wants OUT!! A dog stays in a yard or pen, because he wants to.

[quote name='corgilady']And by the way....just so you know.... while he was barking I was NOT ignoring him.... I paused the movie and said, do you need to go outside? Do you want some water? Where is your toy? What is WRONG?????? heehee :lol:[/quote] Is it a fire? Do you want milk? Are you cold? :lol: :lol: Don't you just love them when you think that they want something (barking at you) and when you give it to them --- they give you "that look" of "gee mom you're ignorant" or "gee dad you ARE stupid"? Humbling to say the least. :-? Where would we be with out them??? Rich, I know....but sad.

Poor Perry. He looks glad to be home, but miserable.

HF, thanks for trying. I'll wait as long as I can for her. I may need her info in the future, too. You never know.

[quote name='corgilady']:o OK you know what a struggle Koda has been. Last night I took him (only him) upstairs with me to watch a movie. He of course was thrilled and rolled all over me most of the time. We had been up there about an hour when we started playing a little rougher(wrestling) and he was jumping on & off the couch. He also bowed while up on the couch, and kind of bent sideways with his head on the seat and BARKED at me for like, 10 minutes. I kept asking him what he wanted but I couldn't figure it out. So I told him to settle down, and made him lay there beside me. I had my hand on his head and I felt his ears go back like they do when he feels guilty. He then jumped up and ran off and ---- he had peed all over the couch! While laying on it!!!! Is that weird or what? I don't *think* he was telling me he needed out; normally he goes back and forth to the stairs!What's up with this?????[/quote] I think he needed to go outside --- trying to tell you by barking for 10 minutes. :wink: He kept asking (differently than before), then you made him lay down and be still, he just couldn't hold it.

[quote name='Crested'] [quote]To insure that a bitch has the best births in her life she [u][b]should be bred at the age of 6 weeks [/b][/u]if she is a dwarf dog. At this time the hips will bend enough and it will insure that she will have easier births in the future.[/quote] (meaning that the hips are allredy bent so that it will not hurt as much) But WHO WOULD BREED A DOG AT SIX MONTHS?!?!?! :o I think only a puppymill breeder.... :mad: /Crested[/quote] I assume YOU meant to type 6 months.

I've read everything from: fighter, messenger, companion, hunter, etc... but had not seen the "protector of children and livestock".

It would be so much easier if I was a trusting soul that could put total faith in the medical profession. I'm not on either count.

[quote name='Guest Kevin']Merely meant God created the attributes that man has honed to every breeds specific task. No offense intended or taken. American Pit Bull Terriers were bred to protect children and livestock from wild animals. God also created the wild animals, and they deserve our respect also. Kevin, Layla :angel: and Skydog :angel:[/quote] Hum....the history that I read said something different. I would like to read what you've read for a different view. Sounds interesting!

Well..."pay no attention to the man behind the curtain", the white Doberman's picture is on a genetics website about "white" Dobermans. I think that particular dog was blind and/or deaf. They are reporting that they (the white Dobe's) are "ALL HEALTHY" -- BS! :evilbat:

Since we are just stating our own opinions --- I'm not commenting on anyone else's opinion, just stating MY OWN. Eric, you talk like 30 dogs with no human contact is a BAD thing... :wink: Given the choice of living the rest of my days with no human contact, and just my dogs --- dogs, hands down. If my dog and I were in a burning building and I could only save myself and one other person or my dog --- well, my dog and I would think of the other person often. Am I anti-social? Yes. Do I have a child? Yes, a grown one. And my dogs have never treated me as badly as she has.

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']Hobbit, I have an email in to my witch doctor, but haven't heard back yet. I'll keep checking. If I don't hear from her by tomorrow night, I'll try to stop by her shop this weekend and catch her there.[/quote] Thanks!

He was elated to see us. We were elated to see him. We hugged and kissed and hugged and kissed. I miss the little feller. The Tech said he has some drainage from one entry point and it's swelling, indicating the possibility of an infection. I got so angry that I wanted to hit her, the Surgeon, the wall, whatever or whoever! I had to leave the room momentarily --- I just broke down (not very masculine, huh?) and just could not regain my composer for a few minutes. I am angry because Guy had been thru so much for this to happen. She assured me that they have started him on antibiotics as a precautionary measure. The Dr didn't feel it was an infection (yet) but there was more drainage and swelling than he'd like to see. So, to make sure it didn't get infected, they are giving him antibiotics. I can feel the impending doom with this. I told her in no certain terms were we bringing him home with an infection in his BONE! I worry more than an old woman. I know how serious an infection in the bone can be; can lead to amputation; worse case scenario --- death. How did this happen? I kept asking her, trying not to scream or sound threatening or grab her around the throat. Did they not autoclave the instruments, the halo, the wire, the screws? Speaking of a total overwhelming feeling of being powerless --- I see the freight train coming, just can't make it stop or get off the tracks. She said she'd check on him 2X's tomorrow. What? ONLY 2x's --- NO, I WANT HIM CHECKED ON SEVERAL TIMES TOMORROW AND WANT TO BE CALLED ON HIS PROGRESS. She said other tech's will be there checking on all of the patients. And she'll be there all day on Sunday. I will be back up there on Monday! Please keep Guy in your thoughts, he is going to need it. And thanks to everyone again for your thoughts and prayers --- it has really helped. This has been the longest week and it's getting longer and longer!

MeiMei -- I'm thinking the same thing. He'll be reassured that we didn't dump him and that we still love him. I'm not going to be able to sleep thinking about the visit tomorrow!!