courtnek

forgive me Hillside, but I have always heard that Dals are hard to train and housebreak. I've been meaning to ask if this was true. this seemed the opportune moment... :oops: :oops: :oops:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I LIKE your style!! welcome to DOGO!! :D :D :D

it probably looked alot worse with paint all over the carpet too.....she does look messed up. I would have been really scared if I saw that. :o :o :o

GOOD DOGS!! TREATS ALL AROUND!! :lol:

LOLOLOLOLOL!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: the things they get into!!! the beginning of this story scared me - glad to hear it was just paint. of course, your fiance may feel differently... Simple Green may get it out. it got blue pen ink out of my carpet. :)

[img]http://dingo.care-mail.com/pictures/41/415/539/415393342.jpg[/img] their game...

[quote]Suing people for harrasment really isn't the proper thing to do... The whole encounter is blatantly frivolous and mean spirited that I don't think it even merits a single other thought, courtnek. [/quote] thanks everyone. I agree. I really have nothing to hide (although the AC around here are a pain. I'd rather not deal with them) but when I posted, I was so UPSET. My main thought was "how could ANYONE think I abuse my dogs?" I was upset, angry, righteous...hopping mad and sad at the same time. mad, because I was being falsely accused. and sad, because someone thought I could be abusive. when I stepped away I realized these people didnt know me from Adam. maybe they thought they were doing the right thing. no one from AC has shown up, so it;s probably a moot point. thanks for all the positive responses. I guess I just needed to hear from people I trust and respect that I am not "bad".. :D :D :drinking:

well, you all know about Laurel and Free....this happened today. when I adopted her, I was told she would need running room (which I have, in a large back yard) and other dogs, since they are raised in a pack setting. I have a lab mix as well, they get along good. also two cats, which she loves and plays with (watching a 60 lb. foxhound doing play bows with a 4 lb kitten is a site to see) anyway, when she needs to run (and "needs" is a fact. they HAVE to run a certain amount every day) I take them both out, and tell her RUN and tell the lab GO GET HER. maybe my choice of words was wrong. The lab then chases the foxhound around the yard, until they're both tired. the lab cant catch her, no dog she's ever run with has been able to. but its a game for both of them. The lab cheats and cuts her off, and the hound leaps over her and keeps running. anyway, someone was walking past my gate today while we were playing this game. they cant really see in (wooden, six foot, looks out to the street) but they could hear me. they started yelling at me for telling Free to "go get her!" accusing me of using Laurel as a "bait dog". Now, I might have asked about that too, if I overheard it. I explained to them what was happening, and all they kept saying was "we will report you for animal abuse!". I was in tears. I have never abused an animal in my whole life, and wouldnt even consider it. They even came in the yard and saw how well the dogs get along. I am very upset.... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

really??? I have had vets suggest i give a dog Pepto! what are the counter-indications? Actually, I shouldnt be surprised. I've had vets tell me buffered aspirin is ok, and it turns out its not for some dogs.... :o :o :o :o

same with the foxhound rescue. they have very strict rules. I basically had to pass their "test" to adopt Laurel. Did anyone ever report this so-called "vet"? dogs do not get arthritis in three days. and what ever happened to the dog? did the rescue take it back or did I miss something?

well.... I want the pet areas to be as clean as possible. I have two dogs. I would want them boarded together in a very large cage/enclosure. I would like the cage/enclosure to have free access to an enclosed area outside, so the dogs could go out if they needed to. I want an enclosed play area, where dogs can be given special time (for a extra fee, of course) by the kennel employees. I want to be able to bring my own food. I would be willing to pay for that unless the dog was on a special diet, and if it was and I had a vet note I would not want to pay extra. I want a report card kept, of everything the dog does (good or bad) in my absense. I want to be alerted immediately if somethng seems very wrong with my dog, like throwing up or diarhea (which is why I want to supply my own food) and how do I know I want all these things? Because the kennel where I board my dogs will do all of them. I have gotten quite spoiled by this place, and their prices are not unreasonable. :fadein:

I agree with you 100% HF...but I;m not here all day, and they are. Things will chill out now that school has started. Kyle portrays himself as a hard-ass, but the fact that Laurel fears him bothers him. He gets disgruntled that she bays/barks/growls every time he enters the room. He has never had a situatio like this, he doesnt understand it. I'm still learning too, I've never had a fearful dog before. He has completely bonded to Ford, the kitten. she likes him no matter what. and Free has been here since he was little... :cry:

[quote]Any way, I am not disputing the fact that all animals living in a social organization need rules. I just think that people should concentrate more on dogs being dogs and how to train dogs rather than trying to study wolves to learn about dogs. I really have seen alot of harm done to many many dogs by people who have some misguided information about pack rules and how to apply them to our dogs. There have been alot of very confused dogs out there which do not have a clue of what their owners are trying to do. Dominance may work quickly in some situations, but, in the long run its just not worth it. [/quote] I think you're misunderstanding me. Pack rules are just that, rules. I am not talking aggression, or punishment, by employing them. I know that dogs dont think we are dogs, but I do think they believe we are part of their pack hierarchy. not to the extent of a wolf, but the instincts and mannerisms are still there. aggressive ruling is just as bad as non-ruling. a good pack alpha employs the animal version of NILIF every day. The wolf that takes down the kill gets to eat first, with the Alpha's. that in itself is a reward for a job well done. The alpha may decide to lay down and "groom" one of the omega's. he is generally very benevolent to his pack members. there is reward, and punishment, but punishment in a true pack is very rare, and only when it cant be helped. I think what Seij said about how wolves are seen on TV, and in legend, has put a lot of people on the defense about pack training, because they really believe it is "rule by fear". It's not. and the reference to sled dogs....sled dogs are a team, trained to do what they do best, run as a team. But so is a pack. If you watch a pack run, it is remarkably (without harnesses) like a sled team. when they migrate, which some of them do, they look like a sled team covering the territory they cross. they run in pairs, with a point and flank scout. I am not advocating aggression at all as "alpha" in my household. I think your analogy to a kid being a "spoiled brat" when not raised properly is dead on. and yes, dogs can be spoiled brats as well. I think we're actually on the same page, just using different terminology. :D

not sure where the green face came from....that gator is HUGE!! he's carrying a full grown deer in his mouth!! at least 16-18 feet, by the size of the deer :o :o :o :o :drinking:

usually only the alpha pair and sometimes the beta pair, will mate. its genetics beyond what people are accustomed to. handled by nature. nature seems to decide that they either need more pups, or they dont. if they dont (depending on the food available) only the alpha pair will mate. if the pack is very small (not viable) or the food is very good, the beta pair will mate and have puppies. it amazes me that nature can decide that anyway! the whole purpose is to have pack members with the BEST genes available. keeps the pack strong, healthy and viable. nature also seems to decide whent he gene pool needs to be increased. if a pack is too small, not viable to the gene pool, more females will come into heat, and more puppies will be born, if the prey can sustain them.

[img]http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/graphics/gatordeer01_small.jpg[/img] :o :o :o :o its been proven to be a real picture....this guy is 14 to 18 feet long... :o :o :o :o

[quote]She ran her own mother out of the pack. Later, she killed a litter of puppies born to her sister, an omega wolf (known as the "Cinderella wolf" because her alpha sister picked on her so)[/quote] THAT'S messed up and it shows two things. One, that the "super alpha" was truly pushing her luck, and two that nature provides. In a normal pack, the Omega would never give birth. She would not be allowed to mate, until she had climbed the ladder to a higher status. in fact, she wouldnt come into heat. nature somehow decides for them what females come into heat, and its usually the higher ranking, because they are stronger, faster, and have the best sets of genes to carry on the pack. which is how they became higher ranking in the first place. I find it very interesting that the Omega was both her sister, and that she came into heat. and that the rest of the pack allowed her to mate. nature and nurture combined, it seems. there must have been a lot of stress in this pack, as far as rank and position, for this to happen. I would be interested to know who the father was. Possibly the male alpha? he too may have contributed to try and correct the mess the pack was in...this is so out of the ordinary its amazing.... although I did see a wolf show where the omega male was the alpha's son, and of course he was the last end of everthing. but as the male grew older, and started losing his alpha status as he lost strength, suddenly in three seasons the Omega male had worked his way up to the top, and became alpha when the alpha "retired". Now these wolves were closely observed by, and moved by humans from one location to another, and the humans were actually considered to be part of the pack. After being moved and settled, the people came back 3 years later to observe them. the Omega male was now Alpha, and the pack recognized them instantly and came out to visit with them. they werent expecting that. the now alpha male allowed them to handle his pups, while the female watched, not quite happy about it, but not resisting either. these pups were old enough to be eating solid food, or I think the female may have fended them off. But the alpha let them pick them up, and the female just watched closely. The alpha had known them since he was a pup himself.

I have nowhere to go. the kitten is sitting on my desk chair, the foxhound is laying on my bed, the lab is sucking up all the floor cushions, and my son is sleeping on the couch!!! :o :o :o :o

pepper spray wont work in every incidence. some dogs are hell-bound and determined. even mace wont work in every situation. in a dog that wont back down to a regular spray, and if it is threatening you, unfortunately, yo have to go for the eyes. directly. I hate to say that, but some dogs will not back down to just the smell and discomfort. sounds like your factory dogs are "junk yard dogs"...and its often hard to drive them off. sometimes, with situations like that. foghorns work. the noise really startles them bad. you can get one at any boat store. their also good for breaking up dogfights.

how can I make it work with Laurel? she is fine with me, but afraid of my son and his loud, obnoxious friends, who wont cooperate with me. I am now using a penny can to distract her from her baying when he comes in, then treating her for settling down. she wants to be his friend, but he resents the fact that she bays and growls at him everytime he comes in the room. she wont hurt him, she's just afraid. If I could stop her from doing that, he might not be so resentful of her. after she has bayed and settled, she tries to go out and bond with him, but he's mad and doesnt respond. she gets about 3/4 of the way to him, and then gives up. I can see its fear. He has never done anything to hurt her, he just doesnt reach out to help her. :( :( :( :(

Matty **sigh** "Alpha" just means "top" - the top of the "group", the leader. Yes, your horse could easily see you as Alpha without being in a herd. You provide, he responds. That was my whole point. in a pack setting, the Alpha "provides" by being their leader. He dictates what the pack will do, he watches over them, he allows feeding and calls them to hunt. They respect him for this function, not resent him. in a wolf pack, other females in the pack will develop teats, and feed the Alpha females young, if for some reason she cannot. It is a cooperative effort for all members. It is literally a society. They have an ingrained sense of survival. it has been proved over time that the pack mentality keeps them alive and well the longest. Most of us dont have to have the "Alpha" tough guy attitude with our dogs. the majority of our dogs are quite happy with being more submissive, like Cassies. However, I have had to break dogs who became too dominate in a household situation. and the best way to do that is too become the pack alpha, even where there is no pack. Not threaten them, but take priveledges away, that only the alpha would normally get. that doesnt mean beat them into submission. you can use their own natural insticnts to stop them from thinking they are "top dog"....

I saw that one. The way I understood it was that mange, at some point, becomes almost impossible to cure, depending on the type. Maybe Divine knows for sure? but consder the misery the poor dog was going through. endlessly itching, no fur, just miserable. and how do you treat it to make it stop itching so bad, for a long enough time that possibly it can be cured? I felt really bad for the dog too.

[quote]Mind, I'm not supporting any sort of hard-handed or aggresive training here. I'm just saying that whether or not dogs had evolved from wolves or from some other species by thier own accord, all canines have a basically similar social structure that we should all keep in mind. [/quote] I wasnt speaking of aggression either. By "strong" I mean that if I use "that" tone, they know they have displeased me. They are also command trained with hand signals. which I use to reinforce an order I want obeyed NOW. Like this morning. Laurel was bugging me to get up, by putting her paws on the bed and licking me. I got up and let her out, then after 10 minutes or so called her to come back in. If they come back the first call, they get reinforced with a small biscuit and soft words. I went back to bed. 10 minutes later she woke me up again. She went out, came immediately back in, and wanted another bone. For that she got a stern NO! and GO lie down!! She is very intelligent, and will try to manipulate, and sometimes has to be reminded who is running the show here.

how tall is your fence? and are they jumping it or climbing it? there are "hoods" you can get for chain link that lean out into the yard, usually preventing the climbers from getting over, but I dont know if they would stop a jumper.... some very powerful (and determined) dogs can get over the hoods too, but they work most of the time.

pepper spray will not hurt an attacking dog. it is NOT the same as mace, which can cause grievious injuries to a dogs eyes. too many people confuse the two. all of the letter carriers here carry pepper spray, and can use it if necessary to ward off a dangerous dog. they threatened to use it on Alex, because he would shove his head through the screen when the mail came. I fixed the issue by introducing the unwilling mail carrier to the "dangerous" dog. he found he loved Alex. There were no more incidents. once they;re not "strangers" everyone can get along. Pepper spray is touted for spraying in eyes, but even that's not necessary. if you spray it at the dogs head, not targeting the eyes, the smell and inhalation of pepper will often back him off. people dont have the dogs sense of smell. it is sprayed in a human attackers eyes because it will cause them to gasp, and be very uncomfortable. it doesnt hurt people either, it's just an overdose of pepper dust. I have put black pepper on the lawn to keep neighbors dogs from "depositing" their wares on my property. one or two good sniffs, and they dont want to come back. it makes them sneeze uncontrollably. but doesnt hurt them.