Rosebud

:-? Pei if the box of Revolution is unopened you should be able to return it. I don't see why you can't go to another vet to get Interceptor. My IG was taken to the local vet (she won't go back) in my town (small town), I asked for a copy of the heartworm results (you could ask for a prescription). I took it to my RR's vet (which is 45 miles away) and bought the heartworm medicine there with the RR's. Now my RR's vet did say that in 12 months I will either have to bring in another test result or he will have to check for heartworms himself before I can refill her heartworm pills. Ask your vet about Interceptor and find out why he isn't offering it, if it's what you want to use he should understand you going somewhere else for it. :angel:

:wink: Freebie will know the right one when they meet. Keep your chin up and remember that you're getting Freebie a new friend too. Freebie new that dog might hurt you and wasn't happy about it. :angel:

:D Wow! What a win! Was it a major? [b][color=blue][size=6]CONGRATULATIONS![/size][/color][/b] :angel:

:-? Pei obsessed you jogged my memory. It was not a shot my vet took his dogs off of it was Revolution. He said that he had heard from other vets that the dogs were getting heartworms after being on it for more than 1 year, he said that he had had 2 dogs come back heartworm positive himself. He told me that I should continue using a different Heartworm Preventative from my flea/tick and not give them on the same day, he wanted to do some more research himself and now that I think about it it was Proheart 6 that he was going to wait and see what happens before offering it at his office, guess I need to call him and find out what he came up with. :angel:

:D Thanks, I think I will do the chip then and luckily my pet insurance will cover 5.00 of it and my vet only charges 15.00. :angel:

[quote name='Jerakeen']Rosebud, define a fully functional dog please. With regards to lack of uniformity of type in your breed then blame modern breeders. They are the ones defining the breed today, breed standards are so open to interpretation that people see different things hence different type. It happens in every breed I don't see why that should be an exclusion for 'new breeds'. Bec[/quote] Definition of fully functional dog. A dog that can win BOS at Westminster or other reputable show of the same type, master the field trials for it's breed ex. Lure-Coursing or Agility, be able to go out on a real trial for it's breed ex. hunt, track, herd, get a Canine Good Citizen or Therapy Certificate and cozy up on the couch with his/her master in the evening. My breed happens to be a breed where you can get mastiff heads and greyhound heads in the SAME litter, it's not a case of poor breeding, it's a case of the different breeds that were used to improve the RR resurfacing centuries later. RR's are a guarded breed, most of the breeders are reputable and have placements for the pups before the breeding takes place, if they can't cover placements for a whole litter, they don't usually breed. They research lines and make sure that the lines are genetically compatible and free of the health issues in the breed. An example is a dermoid sinus, it is the main health issue in the RR, probably came from the African dog but still resurfaces even after all this time of [u]selective breeding practices[/u]. So the issue with the RR is not really an issue of poor breeding practices, it's an issue of stabilizing the breed's inherent genes. My question is do you really think that these breeders are putting that kind of research into a "new" breed to create a fully functional breed or are they just wanting to make money on the uneducated people who buy from pet shops and newpapers without doing breed research, based on the going price for these "new" breeds I would say it's for the money. :angel:

:D Sounds like a great vet. I especially like the fact that he recommended treatment as if it was his own dog. Good luck with him! :angel:

:lilangel: :Dog_run: [img]http://photos.groups.aol.com/_img/happypuppypaws/_BdiTc/runfreesweetangels.jpg[/img]

:lol: Behle it sounds like if you ever decided to finish off that squeaky ball you would need a wooden stake, a silver bullet, some garlic, some sunshine, some holy water and a priest. :angel:

I'm sorry Bec but I noticed that you avoided most of my last post. I don't think that any breed of dog should be breed for money. I believe in breeding for the betterment of the fully functional dog. However, I also still do not believe that any of these mixed/cross breeds are being bred for the betterment of a breed, even their own new crosses. Their are other options, and if these people were breeding with knowledge about what they were doing and not breeding for money then the crosses they produced would not be so expensive. They would not be selling them in the paper and pet stores, the breed would be heavily guarded by the breeders. About the south african tribes, yeah I would say that until the european settlers came that these tribes probably did have a pretty clean line of dogs. You have to remember, that part of africa was pretty much isolated and the chances of other dog breeds being around was probably pretty slim. Now I don't know this for a fact but that would be my guess. Now the avoided issue. It's been 6 centuries and the RR still does not have uniformity within the breed. There are lines that look more like greyhounds, then their are lines that look more mastiff. If it has been this long for my breed then how long do you think it will take to make sure the Labradoodle or Cockapoo has uniformity within it's breed. As to crossbreeding endangering a pure breed line, no I don't think it will, if that was in reponse to my last statement "Who cares about preservation of the breed" well that was a sarcastic joke. :angel:

:D I love them. Just angels. Is it gonna be hard to let them go to forever homes? Congratulations, to the mom! :angel:

:D Thank you Hmmm. Very good to know this and I think that will help Encyclo's decision. Encyclo if you want Angel talk to the Pit owners, learn the breed. If you want a Red Coonhound, get one. Unfortunately it might not be a good idea to get both. Anyways, Proud of you for looking at rescues. Let us know how many we can deduct from the 900k-billion left. :angel:

:-? [quote]Athenix do you know how hard it is to get even a breed that comes from another country 'recognised' if it isn't already so. Most of the Kennel Clubs of each country require a huge amount of generations and breed standards etc set before even considering it so I think it highly unlikely that people will be requesting that this crossed with that to be recognised. [/quote] Jerakeen, [b]Then why breed these crosses at all.[/b] My breed was originally a breed that was used by the south african tribes, quote from RRCUS breed history [color=red][b]"The Rhodesian Ridgeback is a native of South Africa. The breed's long history dates back to early in the 16th century when the first European men explored the interior on the Cape of Good Hope and found with the Hottentot tribes a domesticated dog with the hair on his spine being turned forward. This is the condition which we now refer to as the "ridge."....The foundation stock of the Rhodesian Ridgeback was developed by the first European settlers in South Africa to fill their specific needs for a [u]serviceable hunting dog in the wilds[/u]. The Dutch, Germans and Huguenots who migrated to South Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries brought with them Danes, Mastiffs, Greyhounds, Salukis, Bloodhounds and other breeds."[/b][/color] The RR was not accepted by the AKC till 1955. We still do not have uniformity within our own breed standards. That's about 6 centuries of breeding, how long do you think it will take for these cross-breeds to develop into a NEW breed. Do you really think the FAD will last 6 centuries and what is the MAIN reason for the breeding's? Is it to develop traits in certain lines for a functional/working purpose or just for a pretty dog that will make them some MONEY. I think the whole point is that this new breed is not necessary, just popular right now. There are plenty of other breeds that will serve the purpose of these new expensive mutts, so why put more burden on the shelters. Hey does anyone out here want to create a new breed say maybe a Rhod-Bull or maybe we could call it a Ridge-Pit? I got 6 centuries to breed more questionable dogs into the world, might make some retirement money in the process. Oh who cares about breed preservation anyways. :angel:

:-? :( First: I am so sorry to hear about all the babies and their irresponsible doctors. My heart goes out to all of them and their mommy's & daddy's. Second: Thank you Hobbit for your reply to MoodyBlues. Not everybody is that educated and they trust their vets just like they trust their human doctors. Anyways, people [u]should[/u] be able to trust what their vet says. Third: I have my vets home phone number and would suggest to anyone who has a vet that will not give out that info to get another vet. My vet goes back to school 3 times a year to get refreshed in what is going on in his field. He researches a breed, potential reactions to medication, common ailments, etc before doing anything other than a routine physical. He answers any questions I have and has actually told me that he is glad to see that I have so much interest in how my dogs are treated. A few ex. are when I asked about having a prelim done on my dogs hips: his reply was that I have an excellent dog, she is not showing any indications of having any problems and that since my breed is sensitive to anethesia he does not recommend putting her under just for a hip prelim. He said that if I plan on breeding her before she is 2 or if she shows signs of having problems then he highly suggests it; but he also said that he knows I am more responsible than to breed her before she is old enough. Second Ex. When my friend took Bud (they had changed his name to Bo) to him he suggested that if they liked the name Bud to change it back, he said that Bo sounded too much like NO! to a young pup and it would confuse him. Last: I asked him about one of the yearly all-in-one worm shots and he told me that he didn't want to put my dogs on it, he had been talking to other vets and they were having problems, the dogs were getting heartworms, he said that he was taking his dogs off of it and told me to keep mine on the Heartguard chewies. He also told me that there was a new shot coming out and that he was not going to offer it for at least a year to see what it's side effects are. I can't remember which ones but I do know that he don't trust any of the shots for heartworms. He is a wonderful man and does not let his clients spend money that is not necessary and educates them on side effects and will recommend other vets if he is not knowledgable about an a particular issue. My suggestion to readers is to ask your vet [b]"What do you use on your pets and WHY?"[/b] :angel: [/u]

:D Mary's Momma: I have thought about that, but my area is too big, it would go off everytime I went to a show or to the lake, and it won't stop pet theft since it can be removed. Great idea though. I am trying to figure out which microchip to use. Every one around hear uses Home Again but i have been told that they can only read their own chips. What are the other alternatives in the U.S. particularly in my area, TN, AR & MS. You should always spay before the first heat, I was told by my vet that that is how to avoid mammary cancers. :angel:

:D Thank you Hobbit & Poofy for your responses. This thread has been very educational and I am glad to learn all of this. I also thought that the sample line was heavily inbreed and I didn't actually study it, just saw the same names over & over on all three sides. :angel:

:D Well I think that Encyclo would probably make sure that he picks a dog that he can be a forever home to. I think with all of the Bully parents here at Dogo that he will have lots of support and guidance. I also feel that if he is already planning on getting a Redbone Coonhound then Angel might be his other baby. It said she is deaf and would benefit from having another dog around to be her ears and she is already living with 4 other dogs that she gets along great with. Now ????? to Pit owners. How do they get along with Redbone Coonhound's and Encyclo how would your Red get along with a Pit? :angel:

:D I hate to hear about Alex, I hope he gets better. :angel:

[quote name='Jerakeen']I entirely agree but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. If someone wants to put the time and dedication in that is required to create a new breed then good luck to them. It's not responsible breeders who's dogs end up in rescue (and if they do they will try to get them back) it's the irresponsible that should be condemned whether they breed pure bred or otherwise.[/quote] It is irresponsible breeders that are crossing these breeds. These pups are sold in pet stores or the newspapers. Regular people who don't know any better are buying them, they usually don't know what ethical/responsible breeding is much less what kind of health tests to run. The pups used to create the cross-breed are probably from puppy mills or unethical breeders. What do you think happens to the cross-bred pups that have health issues before their 6 weeks old (the standard pet store age), their killed or dropped off at shelters. These breeders have no other motive but taking a financial advantage of a FAD. Is their a national breed club that is monitoring the development of these new cross-breeds. Is there a web-site devoted to the advancement of these so-called new breeds. I would like to know, although I doubt that there is any. A responsible breeder has life homes already set-up for a litter before their bitch is bred. They do not run ads in the newspaper or sell them in pet stores. They offer guarantees, like taken the pup back for ANY reason, they usually require some sort of training like obedience. They are available to their pups new parents 24/7. They have researched pedigrees, health tests, temperment to find the perfect stud to breed to. AND, they only breed if they feel like the breeding will make the breed better; ex. more sound in bone structure, healt, tempermant and performance. :angel:

:D He is just beautiful. 900 k-billion minus 2 down. :angel:

:-? I have read this thread very carefully. I have a few questions, but first I would like to point out an observation. This thread was started as a question about cross-breeding a particular dog breed to another dog breed's line in order to fix existing problems in the first breed. ie: GSD to other similar shepard. The opposing argument has pretty much been whether excessive in-breeding or outcrossing is better for the breed. There really has not been any argument for loose line breeding vs. out-crossing vs. cross-breeding. The arguments, however, have been very informative and educational. I understand that constantly inbreeding a line will eventually degenerate the line, but I would think that you would lose true structure by constantly outcrossing a line. I also don't see how cross-breeding can really benefit anything other than creating a half-breed, if for only one generation. Now my question is pertaining to out-crossing. - If inbreeding creates a genetic environment for good and bad diseases, ailments etc. to surface when normally they would not of, then wouldn't outcrossing make it a severly recessive gene? I don't understand how if inbreeding brings a good or bad trait to the surface that outcrossing would get rid of it permanently, it seems to me that it would just become a recessive gene. Doc wrote: You are 100% wrong that outbreeding will not get rid of mutations within the population. When you outbreed you can ELIMINATE the bad allelel from the POPULATION by selective breeding, thereby ELIMINATING the disease. [b][color=red]What you are saying is that selective breeding is what is eliminating the disease not the outcrossing on it's own. Could this not also be achieved through selective line-breeding?[/color][/b] Are you aware how scientist established genetic disease models in rodents(before the age of molecular cloning, now we can engineer our diseases)? We inbreed them for generation after generation until something went wrong. That literally ment EVERYTHING and ANYTHING. [b][color=red]Were the rodents in these experiments tested to find the best representatives before breeding again, or was quality not an issue. Has there been an experiment where only the best representative of each litter was in-bred?[/color][/b] Thank you all for your genetics lessons. :angel:

:cry: This angel is for Timber. :angel:

:D How fun, what an exciting day you have planned for him. Try to get a good night's sleep tonight, I know it will be hard, but do it for Stewie George, he will want your full attention. Take a laptop, that way we can still get pics tommorrow. :angel:

:D Yeah! That make 900 k-billion minus 1 to go. [size=1]You would have had to read my post on Dog Mom Convert to get it.[/size] :angel:

:lol: Great story. Sally & Rocco like to help me harvest the vegetables; !While I'm planting them! Marble- They are children, four-legged children while they're young and four-legged people when they get older. :angel: