Aroura

I think that the ***'s are put there by the site, not the moderaters... I could be wrong :-?

I know this is about cats, but I found it interesting and it proves my theory that cooking meat destroys vital nutrients... in 1932, Francis Pottenger, MD, began a ten-year experiment that compared the effects of cooked and raw meats on cats. One group of cats was fed a diet that consisted of 2/3 raw meat scraps (including bone, muscle and viscera) and 1/3 market-grade raw milk and cod liver oil. The other group was fed an identical diet, except their meat scraps were cooked. The group fed raw meat remained consistent in size and form over the generations, with males remaining visibly different from females in size and facial structure. They had excellent tissue tone, good fur quality with little shedding. The calcium and phosphorous levels in their bones were optimal, and organs were well-developed well and fully functional. This group was also resistant to infection, fleas and other parasites. They were friendly, outgoing and even tempered, producing litters of even size with few complications. The group fed cooked meat was not so lucky. The cats were all of different size and all looked different. Their long bones got longer and thinner, resulting in hind legs longer than front legs. Their bones also showed evidence of calcium loss. By the third generation of kittens, these cats' bones were soft and bone infections were commonplace. Heart and vision problems abounded, along with marked increases in irritability and hostility. The cats were plagued by skin and organ problems. This third generation was so nutritionally deficient that none survived beyond six months, effectively terminating their line. Females being fed cooked meat became more aggressive, while males became less so. In fact, it seemed that the coked diet reversed the sex roles. Males' sex drives declined. There was also an increase in abnormal sexual activity between the cats. The kittens born to cooked diet cats weighed less than their raw-fed counterparts. Their infant mortality rates were higher and they developed many allergies. Pottenger summarized his finding by saying that something about raw food helps to activate and support growth and development. Whatever this may be, it seems easily destroyed by the cooking process. Cats who spent one year on a diet considered fine for human consumption so damaged the vitality of cats that it took 3-4 generations of raw feeding to resolve these problems genetically. Some cats were so damaged that no amount of raw feeding resolved their genetic problems.

I was going to say, aren't toy munchkins just Yorkshire Terriers cross Chihuahuas? If your after a small dog, go to the shelter. Otherwise I would get a Silky/Maltese cross, they are adorable dogs!

Sad world isn't it? A dog of a more 'gentle' breed has the potential to attack, if that had have happend what would the authorities say then?

I get another impression... I think they just can't get enough of you!!! Lily is always dragging my teddy bears from my bed into the loungeroom where we all are (yes, I am guilty... I still sleep with teddy bears... :oops: ) And when she sleeps in my bed she just can't get close enough, she snuggles right up under the blankets, with her paw wrapped tightly around my neck breathing her smelly Boxer breath in my face!!!! And she follows me everywhere, which is really annoying because whenever I leave the lounge room she opens the sliding doors to follow me, letting all the warm air out and all the cold air in!!! What can I say? She loves me I guess... Tessa on the other hand is just happy so long as she is infront of the heater or bludging food :wink:

Ignoring the ignorant trouble maker here... I have used both check chain and reward training successfully. Both have their pros and cons, and I wouldn't say that either is better than the other, it all depends on the dog and the owner. Tessa has learnt brilliantly with the check chain, as has Lily with reward training. Different things need to be trained in different ways, as it has already been mentioned. I taught Tessa to sit, heel, drop, stand etc with the check chain. But she learnt to speak, shake dry, shake paw, wave, hi 5, roll over, play dead, go up the slide etc etc etc with reward training, as well as doing agility solely on rewards. For any Aussies in here, what do you think about the idea I teach my Boxer to steal sausages and swap them for a tin of PAL??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aww how sweet? :wink: Its ok... dont worry, be happy.... :P LOL I love shar peis too, gorgeous dogs. Just make sure you check out for allergies before you buy one and look at both the parents 8)

Ian, I can't help but like you... being a Boxer lover and BARF advocate and all :wink: All I can say is that the main reason I believe this post is that the language used is so different, how else did everyone realize that Mary and Doglover were the same person? Which is another reason I don't believe she is a 30 year old troll. Its been made quite clear to me just through that, that she is young girl and really didn't mean to make us mad. I don't know what Josh means by 'she is not quit right in the head', but I have a schizzophrenic brother and know what it is like living with someone like this. By no means does my brother mean to make everybodys life difficult, but for some people it is hard for them to realize what is right and what is wrong. I think its sweet for Josh to be sticking up for his little sister though :wink:

Just ignore them, pretend they have never been here and that you never read that post. It is the only way to avoid stress for everyone in the forum

Guest Pat, obviously it cant be a 'reputable' breed club! This kind of advice leads to unwanted pregnancys and dogs being put to sleep or worse still going to a home that may abuse them for the rest of thier life!!! If people aren't prepared for the extra grooming, they shouldn't get a long haired dog, it is as simple as that. And for those people who want a long haired dog and don't want the exra grooming of a desexed one? They are obviously irrisponsible and shouldn't have a dog at all!

Thanks Josh. Although many in this forum wouldn't believe you, I do. I've met people like Mary in real life, so I realize she isn't a troll, or just a little brat either. I'm glad you posted, hopefully others will realize you are not the other half of Marys 'troll' side and realize she is just a poor innocent little kid just trying to be noticed!!! Thanks again 8)

Thanks everyone. I'm keeping in contact with some of the top Boxer breeders in Australia. If I decide to breed I don't think I will need to line breed, she has a good pedigree with alot of great ch. in her lines, but I think I can get equally good pups from breeding her out to a dog that will complement any faults she has (eg, plain colour). I'm also keeping in contact with her breeder, so by the time she is old enough to breed I think I will be able to find the best to suited to her. :)

[quote name='Anonymous']Why are you leaving bones around if it causes fights? You say no fights have been serious... the next word you should have said was[b]YET [/b][/quote] I don't leave bones lying around, I feed them bones and for some reason Lily has both and Tessa want one thats when they scruff. I do realize this is a problem and if I had real reason to worry I would do something about it. They are dogs though, they sort themselves out and there is always someone home if anything did ever get out of control. Lily is 8 months old, she is still at the stage of her life where they are sorting out pack order, she's not after blood.

A good rule of thumb when feeding recreational bones, the bigger the better! :D

Oh come on guys!!! I realized too but thought "why be mean, just answer the question". Honestly, I thought you people were above that. Give the poor girl a break!!! :evil:

Is it just like dandruffy? Try adding some canola oil or cod liver oil to the diet, dont overdose with the codliver though. Or try alternating cod liver oil with flaxseed oil. Also add some fatty meat to the diet, such as hamburger mince, some liver and some raw eggs. A whole raw fish once or twice a week may also be beneficial. What are you feeding milo now? I do think you need a new vet though, and soon!

Dont get a Boxer!!!! They wouldn't bark if their life depended on it... I don't know about the rest of them but Lily certainly wouldn't!!! Yeah, any mix from the shelter, Tessa is probably one of the most talented dogs in the world and she was only a $20 mutt from the pound. We think shes a Bull Terrier/kelpie/cattle dog mix, she knows about 50 tricks (no exageration) and does extremely well in agility, best in Armidale. She's a great family dog, excellent with kids and also makes a good guard dog. Just goes to show, some of the best dogs are those "one day to live" mutts at the pound. :)

At least if he's in need of the light formula he shouldn't stave to death!!! :lol: Before I switched Lily completely to BARF I had her on dry food with fresh chicken every day. She wouldn't eat her dry food (PAL) and got so skinny her ribs were poking out just like those starving dogs you see on TV! I'd spend hours each morning tempting her to eat but still she got thinner. I switched her to supercoat, she loved it and put on some weight. Since putting her on BARF though she has this very strong muscle all down her back, her muscles are really strong and she is eating very well!!! Apparently adding kelp to a dogs diet improves their appetite and digestion, a good idea for a fat dog that wont eat! Not sure how you could add it to kibble though...

Goldenluver, I feed my dogs on a BARF diet for this reason as well as many many others. I understand that not everyone believes in it or that it is convenient for everyone, my next choice of dog food after a freash home prepared one would be supercoat, for the simple reason that it does not use ethoxyquin and that it uses meat as a prime ingredient, it is affordable and it generally sounds ok to me!!! Things like this make me sick to the stomach, obviously they are in it just for the profit, anyone who loved dogs couldnt bring themselves to do such tests. :cry:

Check this out : [url]http://www.pitdog.com/pitnews.html[/url]

It was born that way, I am sure it is used to it. I have my toungue peirced, I got used to it and now its like its not there. I'm sure the dog is used to it and an operation would only cause it unnessissarry (i cant spell :P ) pain and stress. Besides, I'm not sure it would be something any vet would be qualified to do, the toungue is a muscle and to operate would be a hard task! Not to mention the poor dog would have relearn to drink after, plus the risk of the dog dying in such an unpracticed operation.

When I first got Lily and lived on my own I'd stay up really late at night so I could let her out for her buisiness, then she would come in and sleep in my bed, wake me up at 7am and I would run out to the back door with her... every time without fail she would stop dead in the laundry, just steps before the back door and piddle!!!! I tried putting newspaper down and everything but she would just stop just before it. When I moved back in with my parents she would just walk along and STOP in the middle of the floor! We could never catch her because it was so unexpected. Shes a super fast learner though, and all it took to train her was for me to catch her once, grab her, pick her up and put her out, then praise her when she did her thing and she never did it again! I've never known a dog that learnt like she does, but she always acts so dumb! :roll: She still does it on walks, many a time I've tripped over her as she just stops right infront of me! Thats my baby.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

My motto is that you can never learn too much!!! Just read the page on wolves... nothing too conclusive there :) Oh, except about the fur... I would feed whole animals if I could get my hands on them! And one of them say something about soft bones of small animals eg chicken should be fine. Just about to read the other pages. Well I'm glad to say, when you give these guys in the other forum a link they will read it and re read it before they jump down your throaght, then they will give objective oppinions and never simply say 'you are wrong'. They are the most knowladgable lot of people I have come across ever I'd say! I'll let you know what they say!

Training a dog is not about training the dog, but training the owner... attack dogs are a little different though, they need alot of each. Pits are not a good dog to train to attack though, because looking back into doggie history, breeds like German Shephards, Rotweilers and even some Boxers were bred to attack on command, but let go when told to. If they didn't do this they wouldn't be considerd a good line and wouldn't be bred from. Pits on the other hand were bred to attack attack attack... if they stopped simply when someone yelled at them they would be a dogs breakfast! Therefore, a Pit is not a suitable attack dog and should not be trained to do so and any 'qualified' trainer who trains someones Pit to attack is a fool!!! Especially a 13 year old girl! As for the gate being open, I did get the impression that the dog was safely inside... We all agree that under no circumstances a 13 year old girl should have been in controll an attack dog. I would have to agree, a Pits worst enemy is its owner in most cases, but not in any of the cases in this forum, I think these Pits are spoilt rotton! And as for Mary... she is only young as I said before, and was trying to do her best. It is her mother or father and the bloody trainer who trained that dog who are in the wrong, the best we can do for Mary is educate her and hope this kind of thing never happens again, Mary, stop wasting your money on attack classes and buy your dog a muzzle.

Horsefeathers, of course it remained civil, I consider you a friend and would NEVER call you names, even if we do disagree!!! :D Also I don't see the point, I am open to your ideas and I'm always willing to learn more, although I'm not open to ideas about commercial food. I've read too much bad stuff about that and it makes me sick to even think of feeding it to my dogs! I have always fed raw bones. I would be wary maybe about whole chicken carcasses that seem so popular amoungst BARFers, but the necks seem safe enough, the bones aren't hard and splintery and are easily digested. I must say, you have put up some rather good arguments for what you feed, you havn't converted me but I cant say what you feed isn't very close to the best possible.