Aroura

[quote name='roo']Auora (i cannot spell that) I am only beliving your mums post as i belived yours, One of them is true one is half true, how am i supposed to know who is telling the truth and who is not??????????? I don't just belive her because shes older. I now will make no further comments concerning the situation, i just hope that the dogs are ok. I suggest that you sit down with your mum and sort it out, don't use this forum for getting at each other, yes mums and daughters always argue, its human nature. But to bring innocent members and guests alike into your disagreements us unfair, we only use the information given and try to help in any way we can. You will see no more replies from me on this subject, I am no longer interested in you and your mums aguements over YOUR dogs. But i will say i hope it all works out for the dogs in the end. Roo[/quote] I never meant to use this forum as a way of getting at my mother, I never even meant for her to read it. All I was innitially after was a few constructive ideas that I could discuss with mum. It was never supposed to turn into any sort of argument, I was only hoping to find a way to convince her to see what is best for my dogs because I love them, not because I was looking for a [i]fight[/i]! I am sorry if you see it as me trying to bring innocent members and guests into an argument, but as I said before, it was never supposed to be an argument, and mum wasn't even intended to read it.

[quote name='Aroura']This is Aurora's mum. Its easy to make a judgement and have a opinion with only half the facts. For those of you making judgements, here are a few facts: 1. Initially there was only one dog, a Australian cattle dog/kelpie/bull terrier cross, which I rescued from the pound, these dogs are working dogs, they live on farms, outdoors in kennels and herd sheep, this IS a outdoor dog. Aurora left home long enough to purchase a new and bigger dog, no consultation or discussion on what would happen if her accommodation fell through, just a assumption that mum would pick up the pieces. Yes, Tessa is an 'outdoor' breed, but that is no reason for her to be seperated from the pack, if Puddles is in, she should be too. At the time I got Lily I had absolutly NO REASON to consult with mum, as I wasn't planning to move back in with her, and it was under no fault of my own that all my other options fell through. 2. The poodle is no bigger than a cat, it is a toy dog, any one with half a brain knows toy dogs are not outdoor dogs. Unfortunately, the owner of the Poodle, Aurora's sister, is unable to have her dog with her and I took over the care of that animal. I lost my cat and for me she is a perfect replacement. This dog goes back to the sister any time her circumstances change. A dog can never replace a cat, they are pack animals and should be kept together, not treated as a cat, which is a solo animal. We have two other cats mum could easily use to replace Marmalade. Anyone with half a brain also knows that a boxer is no more of an outdoor dog than a poodle. Also, they are best friends and should be kept together in their pack. 3. If Aurora took more responsibility in cleaning up after her dogs I might reconsider. Please note, she may vacuum her room but she never vacuums or dusts any other area of the house she may have the dogs in. She is 19, no excuses, she does know how to use a vacuum cleaner. Yes, I vacum my room every week, which is the only place I expect the dogs to be. They only come through the rest of the house to say a brief 'hello' or to sit and wait for their food while I am preparing it in the kitchen. 4. The dogs DO sleep in the sun room, it is totally enclosed, dry and free of drafts, they have a bed and until last week when they shredded it, they had a large amount of bedding and extra cushions to sit on. They even shredded the chair Aurora had in the sunroom waiting to be renovated. They also have two sheds and a kennel outside, I think this is more than the average dog gets. If it is particularly cold outside, I do bring them in, but we have a lovely sunny backyard and the dogs love to sleep in the sun. As I said before, the sunroom has no insulation and is the same temperature as outside. The tin sheds have cement floors and the kennel is thin plastic, hardly a place for the dogs to shelter. 5. Aurora rarely even cleans the sunroom, it requires sweeping daily because of dog fur, yes, they do shed and bring in a lot of dirt, my daily sweepings are testament to that. Not to mention the Boxer is not toilet trained, pee's everywhere. I regularly get up mornings and have to mop the entire room because Aurora always has something better to do and makes excuses not to do it! I clean the sunroom when I see it needs cleaning, I sweep it about once a week, thats all that it needs. No way in the world mum sweeps daily, I think she is just saying this to make herself sound like the good samaritin. I have seen her sweep once in the two months I have been living back at home. I can't toilet train Lily when I am asleep in my bedroom while she is in the sunroom. If she had her own bed in my bedroom I would know when she woke up and be able to let her out and praise her when she went. When I wake up, if there is piddle on the floor and dad hasn't already mopped it up, I do it. Mum rarely does it, another thing she is highly exaggerating. 6. I am a sewer, when I sit to work, I dont want animals jumping all over me. This is treated as a joke by Aurora, not as a matter for discipline of her animals. She needs to teach them when they come in the house they dont jump all over me and drool on the work I am doing. Not to mention, when I am sitting peacefully relaxing, the last thing I want is a dog jumping on me unless I call them over. I cant train them if they never have a chance to be trained, if they were allowed to come inside I could easily train them to sit peacefully in one spot. 7. This is MY house, she knew how I felt about the subject before she purchased the Boxer, where is her responsibility to consider others. This is a issue of respect. Aurora is a intelligent girl and needs realise that its not about her getting her way, its about respecting other peoples rights also. It is not about me getting my way, it is about me being with the ones I love. If it is just a matter of that she doesn't like dogs inside, why then is my sisters dog allowed inside? It is not just an issue with my dogs, as you can see by this post, she has issues with me beyond my control. She has always treated my sisters animals better than mine, like she is trying to get at me through them. She knows how stressed I get from being seperated from my animals and uses it against me. I do get severely distressed at the thought of my dogs being outside, to the extent where I get eczema and am crying from the stress, yet she continues to ride her power trip and disallow me from being with the ones I love more than anything in the world. Even when my rat died and I had spent the whole day crying she wouldn't let me have the dogs inside just for a little while so I could give them a cuddle, as I was thinking that I was going to loose them one day and didn't want to miss a moment of their life. Get real people, they are dogs, they are a animal of nature, why make sooks out of them. The way I see it, dogs are part of the family, the only people who need to get real are the ones who want to shut them off from their family. I dont suppose she has mentioned that over the years she has also had fish, canary's, budgerigars, cockatiels, mice, rats, dwarf hamsters, rabbits, cats, dogs, to various and many to list here, not to mention the ones we have rescued. I think I have been more than tolerant.[/quote] I don't mean to turn this into an online family feud, but I don't like people just seeing her side of the story and not even having the chance to see how distressed I am at the situation. I don't want to be thought of as all she just tried to make me out to be, I am extremely upset that she could do that to me, all I wanted was what is best for my dogs.[/b]

[quote name='roo']To aurors mum, Thank you so much for replying to this forum/slanging match, As you can see from the first post, only a tiny bit of truth and information was given to everyone here concerning HOW the dogs were kept. It was made to sound like only the boxers were kept outside, could come into a sunhouse on rare occasions and that in the sunhouse there was no comfort or warmth. :o I can understand you not wanting them everywhere, leaping about, chewing, slobbering, peeing. :evil: I can see that you are the one doing all the donkey work for the dogs. I think that now everyone knows what is what that we will all say that your 19 year old daughter should get off her butt, get her act together and start taking responsible care of her dogs, start house training the pee master, start cleaning their housing, start washing their beds. Them maybe everyone will stop replying to something that is not even half true. :oops: Beagle, you sound like you DO the looking after of the dogs at your home well done. I bet you would hate to think of someone else doing it for you because you cound not be bothered wouldn't you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Roo[/quote] I don't mean to sound rude, but again you are jumping to conclusions!!! Just because my mother writes one post, stating all this bull@$%# that is not even half true you believe what she says is gospel and I am a lazy slob who can't be bothered to look after my dogs??? I am REALLY offended, not just that you interperate it that way, but because my own mother said that about me when its not even true!!! Want the trueth? Well, I admit Lily isn't toilet trained, but how am I supposed to toilet train her when the only time she is in the sunroom is when I am in bed asleep??? When she IS in the house, she never, ever piddles in the lounge room or my bedroom, maybe if I could catch her in the act I could do a better job at training her??? Secondly, if mum ever mops the sunroom floor, it is before I even wake up and I must say it would have to dry pretty quickly because even though I do not wake up long after mum, I have never walked in on a recently moped floor. It is rarely ever mum who mops the floor, so what she said on that matter is a lie. As for the dog bedding, they only have one blanket to sleep on, yes, mum does wash it occasionally, I would hardly say weekly, but I hang it out to dry and bring it back in for the dogs to sleep on. It is hardly like she does it all herself. What she said about sweeping the floor daily, I have only seen her sweep it once since I moved back home, every other time it has either been me or dad. I hear her making alot of fuss about what she has to do for the dogs, but in reality, it is me and dad who solely look after the dogs, and I don't hear dad complaining because he loves them as much as I do and would have them inside too, if he had the choice. It is his house just as much as mums, but mum makes the rules still the same. I never expect the dogs to come in the house unless I brush them first, therefore reducing the amount of fur shed. They do not make a mess and if they did I am prepared to comprimise and only have them in my room. I vacume my room every week, dust it and clean the fish tank. I tidy my room every day. I am NOT as lazy as mum makes out. I do my own washing and pay rent. I am not just a lazy teenager scabbing off my parents and expecting the world from them. All I want is to be able to sit in my room watching tv with my two gorgeous dogs, who I love more than the world itself, by my side. What mum said about Puddles replacing Marmalade is not right, a dog can never replace a cat, they are pack animals and so if one dog is allowed in the house, so should the others be able to. Puddles may be smaller than Lily, yes, but Lily feels the cold just as much, as she is younger and has much shorter fur. Mum did bring home some little cardigains for the dogs, but the way she makes out it is all her idea is wrong, it was her friend who thought our dogs needed coats and her friend who bought them. The dogs cant' even wear them though, as the other dogs jump on them, attack them and pull them off. Not to mention they are all too small for Lily, and to wear them as she is growing would only cause her bone growth malformalitys. What she said about me expecting her to live with the dog once I lost the house couldn't be more WRONG! The last thing in the world I was expecting was to move back in with my un-dogfriendly mother. I had no idea I would loose the house, and the situation was out of my control. I also thought once I lost the house I would be leaving Armidale to live on the coast with a friend in a house with a back yard. It was out of my control that that didn't happen, and it was only when I had absolutly no place else to go that I moved back in here. I don't see why she wont let me have the dogs in my room. I am in my brothers old room, and before I decided to get in there and clean the room up it was disgusting. There was a disgusting mess all through the room, my brother had been smoking in the room and the whole room reecked. It is only because of me that the room is clean and tidy again, I am paying rent, I vacum my room all the time, I brush the dogs before I even consider bringing them in, the dogs are always clean, mum never even has to see the room.... so why then shouldn't they be allowed in my room? The sunroom isn't all as warm as mum makes out, yes sure it protects them from the elements, but there is no diffence in the actual temperature than outside. Besides all this, as I said before, I want to BE WITH MY DOGS, not sit in the study looking out into the sunroom at my dogs. Where is the bond if I can't sit and relax with my dogs? A daily walk and a few games of ball hardly suffices, we need time together to just sit and cuddle. If its too cold for me to go outside and sit with my dogs, what am I to do? Its a case of me loving my dogs, not trying to get my way. Back to my original comment about the fact that I cant' beleive mum would say all that stuff that isn't even true, just because she is older, doesn't mean you should belive everything she says over what I say. And Beagle, that shed you say you have, sounds great. Don't let idiots get you down by saying you are abusing your dogs, it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that the oppisite is quite true.

[quote name='beagle88'][quote name='Anonymous'][quote name='beagle88']Ok..go back and re-read the post! I said that my sibe streches out on the cold concrete. I ment the big slab of concrete that we have right by our house. I NEVER said that the shed was concrete. There people go again assuming things! And since they are not your dogs just let my dogs and my business be mine![/quote] You came here with the description of the situation in a thread on getting dogs inside and out of the cold - did you expect praise for keeping your dogs outside? Its obvious they aren't my dogs - as my dogs live inside with the people and go out for fun and potty trips - I don't need to take my dogs to stores in the winter to warm them up... Oh well teenagers never listen to what is really being said anyway.[/quote] Ok I am not going to even bother with rude people like you. Then if you realize they are my dogs then keep your big butt out of it ok! If you are really that concerned then I will give you my moms email address so you can babble your nonsence to her. And no I did not ask for praise, read the title of this post.. or should I say it for you? Its says help me convince! I also need help convincing. So that is why I posted but instead of me getting help I get slammed in the face with extremely rude posts from you and nicki. I have even been called an animal abusser. That to me is very rude. I would not be here if I hated animals. I will no longer deal with you rude people. I do not make the rules in my house therefore I cannot and willnot tell my mother what to do. So do not come to me and tell me how you think I am abbusing my animals by keeping them outside.[/quote] Beagle, Aurora's mum again, I congratulate you on respecting your mums wishes, a few other people should take a leaf out of your book. Maybe you should do what Aurora has done, let your mum read all the posts, as I said earlier, there are always two sides to a story and obviously yours has been misinterpreted. Beagle, you can see from my earlier post the issues I have with Aurora and the dogs, maybe you should discuss with your mum what you could do to make it acceptable for them to spend even short periods of time in the house. Despite what Aurora may have intimated, her dogs do come in for short periods of time, but I know my daughter well, give her a inch and she takes a mile, so I have to draw the line somewhere. I have to admit, I absolutely do not think dogs should sleep on beds. That changes the pack order and having been a person who has been attacked by a pack of dogs and nearly killed, I will not compromise on this point at all. Good luck Beagle, remember, if you respect your mum and what she says, if you present a clear case in a controled manner and let her know you will compromise and you can define some clear rules, you may be able to at least have a small victory. From a mum who knows, reason it out but be prepared to compromise as well.

[quote name='Chickeeta']Aurora, I'm sorry your mom feels this way. There are very few breeds that want or should stay outdoors. I've owned boxers all my life, and while I don't pretend to know everything, I do know that boxers do not belong outside. They are short haired dogs who are extremely sensitive to cold and heat. Being a short nosed dog the heat is extremely hard on them. Get your mom some books to read on boxers and your other dog and dogs in general and see if you can persuade her and your dad that it is cruel to keep these dogs outside all the time and to bring them into the sunroom where there is nothing warm for them to lie down on the floor. Can you buy them dog beds or blankets?[/quote] I, I being Aurora's mum, am not cruel, so I suggest you choose your words more carefully before slanging out. They do have bedding, I must admit I am having a difficult time keeping up with the Boxer's shredding habits. I even wash the bedding weekly, once again, me, not Aurora washes the bedding. LOL, I even went to the local opportunity shop and bought ALL the dogs childrens cardigans for them to wear as coats. I didnt see Aurora going out and buying her dog a coat or even making a effort to learn to knit when I downloaded countless doggie coat patterns and offered to teach her.

This is Aurora's mum. Its easy to make a judgement and have a opinion with only half the facts. For those of you making judgements, here are a few facts: 1. Initially there was only one dog, a Australian cattle dog/kelpie/bull terrier cross, which I rescued from the pound, these dogs are working dogs, they live on farms, outdoors in kennels and herd sheep, this IS a outdoor dog. Aurora left home long enough to purchase a new and bigger dog, no consultation or discussion on what would happen if her accommodation fell through, just a assumption that mum would pick up the pieces. 2. The poodle is no bigger than a cat, it is a toy dog, any one with half a brain knows toy dogs are not outdoor dogs. Unfortunately, the owner of the Poodle, Aurora's sister, is unable to have her dog with her and I took over the care of that animal. I lost my cat and for me she is a perfect replacement. This dog goes back to the sister any time her circumstances change. 3. If Aurora took more responsibility in cleaning up after her dogs I might reconsider. Please note, she may vacuum her room but she never vacuums or dusts any other area of the house she may have the dogs in. She is 19, no excuses, she does know how to use a vacuum cleaner. 4. The dogs DO sleep in the sun room, it is totally enclosed, dry and free of drafts, they have a bed and until last week when they shredded it, they had a large amount of bedding and extra cushions to sit on. They even shredded the chair Aurora had in the sunroom waiting to be renovated. They also have two sheds and a kennel outside, I think this is more than the average dog gets. If it is particularly cold outside, I do bring them in, but we have a lovely sunny backyard and the dogs love to sleep in the sun. 5. Aurora rarely even cleans the sunroom, it requires sweeping daily because of dog fur, yes, they do shed and bring in a lot of dirt, my daily sweepings are testament to that. Not to mention the Boxer is not toilet trained, pee's everywhere. I regularly get up mornings and have to mop the entire room because Aurora always has something better to do and makes excuses not to do it! 6. I am a sewer, when I sit to work, I dont want animals jumping all over me. This is treated as a joke by Aurora, not as a matter for discipline of her animals. She needs to teach them when they come in the house they dont jump all over me and drool on the work I am doing. Not to mention, when I am sitting peacefully relaxing, the last thing I want is a dog jumping on me unless I call them over. 7. This is MY house, she knew how I felt about the subject before she purchased the Boxer, where is her responsibility to consider others. This is a issue of respect. Aurora is a intelligent girl and needs realise that its not about her getting her way, its about respecting other peoples rights also. No amount of slanging off at me by getting people onside online will change the facts, respect is given where respect is deserved. If she cannot meet me half way by respecting the fact that I dont want to live in a house with dog fur everywhere and her take responsiblity for cleaning up and controling her animals, I DO NOT have to have them in the house when they have perfectly suitable accommodation in the sunroom. Get real people, they are dogs, they are a animal of nature, why make sooks out of them. Now, the reason I am replying to Auror's post, she thought I would be swayed by comments of other people. I dont live with other people, I live with her. I tolerate the daily mess in the sunroom, I dont have to tolerate that in my house as well. Life is about compromise, I have compromised by allowing her to have a dog, I allow them in the sunroom despite the mess, she needs to learn that sometimes in life you have to meet people half way. In this case its taking responsiblity for cleaning up daily after her animals. I dont suppose she has mentioned that over the years she has also had fish, canary's, budgerigars, cockatiels, mice, rats, dwarf hamsters, rabbits, cats, dogs, to various and many to list here, not to mention the ones we have rescued. I think I have been more than tolerant.

[quote name='Jacsmom']Okay I read the original post like 5x's and did not see where Aroura said they did not have shelter. So my question is do the dogs (Puddles and Lily :) ) have shelter? I realize that they are cold and you want them inside as would most owners. I just did not want to jump to any conclusions and say that they did not have a house, of course any dog or cat is going to get cold in snow and wind.[/quote] Yes, the dogs do have some form of shelter, they sleep in the sunroom all together at night. The three of them, Puddles, Lily and Tessa all keep each other warm(ish) on the large dog bed they have, with blankets etc. I am not worried that they are going to DIE from the cold, I just think they would, of course, be happier inside. When I wrote the post, I wasn't so concerned about them freezing to death so much as I was concerned about the emotional stress of being away from the rest of their 'pack'. I love them to death and I know they love me, I know there is a better social order etc if the dogs spend alot of time with their humans. I was after a few constructive ideas to help me to convince mum that they really should be inside with us, not a lecture from some of you saying how cruel I am and that I should give them away!!! I really do love them and if I thought for a second that they might have serious health issues with being locked out I would do something about it asap, even if it meant finding them a temperary place to stay with someone else. When I said it is cold enough to snow, I didn't mean that there were inches of snow every night, we're lucky if we get 1 or 2 inches 2 or 3 times a year, but I was simply saying that it DOES snow sometimes. If it was snowing outside, I'm sure mum would make an exception and bring them in the house for the night. Jacksmom, thanks for not jumping to conclusions, unlike some people in here, I would never mistreat my dogs :wink:

[quote name='nicki']I am just shocked to hear that dogs are being left outdoors year round. That is inexcusible...cruel...and illegal in civilized countries. If a dog owner can not provide indoor shelter for their dog, they should put the interests of the dog before their own and find the dog a new home. No amount of love is going to prevent a dog from freezing to death. Sometimes in life we have to make tough decisions. Part of being a responsible adult is recognizing our limitations and shortcomings and putting the interests of others before our own.[/quote] [b]ARE YOU SUGGESTING I GIVE MY DOGS AWAY???!!! I LOVE THEM MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD AND I CAN'T BELEIVE YOU WOULD HAVE THE NERVE TO EVEN SUGGEST THAT!!!! OBVIOUSLY I AM TRYING TO FIND A WAY AROUND IT, AND THE SITUATION IS ONLY TEMPERARY, UNTIL I CAN FIND A WAY AROUND IT!!!!! THEY ARE NOT FREEZING TO DEATH, THEY ARE JUST SHIVERING, AND IF I WERE TO GIVE THEM AWAY HOW WOULD I EVER KNOW THAT THEY WERE BEING LOOKED AFTER PROPERLY? I LOVE MY DOGS AND TAKE THE VERY BEST CARE POSSIBLE FOR THEM, A LITTLE BIT OF COLD ISN'T GOING TO KILL THEM. I WANT WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM, AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL I EVER GIVE THEM AWAY. For all you other people you can understand and sympethise with my situation, I just want to let you know the dogs sleep in my room now next to the heater. Great news huh? :D [/b]

Ever considered a Labradoodle??? I think you'll find they are everything you are looking for, plus they do not shed and are hypo allergenic. They are extremely intellegent and absolutly LOVE the water! They are very sociable, love everyone from babys to elderly people and they do not have many health problems. Good luck

I know the PERFECT breed for you!!! They are clean, have no doggy odor, barely shed a hair, are absolutely gorgeous, can't bark and don't thrive on human attentionas much as other breeds, in fact they are more like a cat than a dog!!!! I would seriously seriously look into getting a Basenji if I were you, definatly! Sorry, I am very bias when it comes to this breed, I think they are one of the best breeds in the world, not my type of dog because I love a dog that can easily be taught tricks etc, but I used to own a Basenji/Standard Foxie Cross and she was marvelous. They are a breed that has to be seriously looked into before getting one, as they are wild dogs, although not agressive like wolves they do have some wild traits, such as climbing the furniture etc!!! They even clean themselves like a cat! :D If thats not exactly what your after maybe a Miniture bull Terrier or a French Bulldog (they are absolutely gorgeous!!!) would be more to your liking. A tip on Cockers though, the solid Cockers have been proven to be 10 times more likely to be agressive than the bi or tri colours. Good Luck!!!

[quote name='Anonymous']Apparently you don't read the studies on the subject or pay any attention to behaviorists who work with dogs for a living. I think using a tool that causes damage to neck vertebrae as the choke collar is designed to do is cruel. Its completely unneccessary as a training tool and a flat collar is perfect for most training particularly with pups. If you know how to motivate dogs a lead is not needed to train with either. Maybe someday you will outgrow the force is best training methods - I assure you that both you and your dogs will have lots more fun together once you do. Did you even look at either of the websites for clickers or the gentle leader? Do you even understand the concepts of positive motivation vs punishment training? Again I think if you did the dogs and you would be having a lot more fun together.[/quote] I'm sorry that I should have to point this out [i]again[/i] but I never said there was anything [u]wrong[/u] with using a halti or a clicker. I think they are great, its just in my experience, as well as everyone I know, including the various obedience trainers who have been teaching obedience their whole lives, that the check chain is the [i]best[/i] way to train a dog. It is not [b]punishing[/b] the dog, the best way to use them is indeed to use positive training, but to correct them when they make a mistake, not by [i]hurting[/i] the dog, but by [i]subjecting it to an unpleasant sound[/i]. There is a [b]very big difference!!![/b] Ever heard of a half check??? You never answered me when I brought it up before. In your oppinion, do half checks, that do not even exert any pressure on the dogs trackea, cause any pain or damage to a dogs neck? If not, then how do they work??? Please explain this to me as I am very curious to know.

Will be sure to keep you all posted. At the moment I've been sneaking the dogs into my room whenever possible, my bedroom has a door to the backyard :P Still, thats no good when mum comes in and finds them. I think she's beggining to not mind as much, so long as they are quiet and sleeping in my room and I don't have them in too often. Its a comprimise, but I will keep trying to convince her they should be inside just that little bit more often, and then that little bit more again, and then some more... :wink: I'll let you know how it goes, who knows, in a few weeks I could be sitting here typing with the dogs at my feet!!! :D

I have never in my life seen a black boxer. Does it have papers??? Does it have white markings at all or is it pure black? Some boxers come in a very dark brindle that looks almost black, but they still have white markings. Do you have any photos?

[quote name='Anonymous']Sorry you are quite incorrect about what head halters are used for. I see plenty of dogs being trained using head halters and all do quite well and graduate off of them once they learn the desired behavior.[/quote] Personally, I have never seen a dog properly trained using a halti. I'm not saying that they do not work, but I do admit in all the cases I have seen with haltis it was the trainer that got it wrong, and it had nothing to do with the halti. But I am still a religious check chain user, as from everything I have ever seen, used correctly they are the most effective and most humane training tool on the market.

[quote name='roo']How cold is it there? Do you or your parents pay for the keep of the dogs? If I were the breeder of the boxer pup and I knew it was going to live outside without shelter or comfort then i am afraid that the puppy would not be living at this house.[/quote] I'm 19, it gets cold enough to snow here sometimes and very windy. The dogs are soley my responsibility, I feed them, play with them, pay for their food and vet bills etc. Dad walks them though, as well as me because its something he likes to do. When I bought Lily from the breeder I was living by myself at the time in a nice house with a big backyard right nextdoor to a dog park. I wasn't to know at that stage how short my stay there would be. I'm currently looking for a house to rent where I can have my dogs indoors, but its hard to find people to move out with. Its a hard life being a teenager!!! :lol:

Its winter here in Australia and it is getting very, very cold. I live at home with mum, so I don't make the rules with the dogs, so they are left stuck outside, freezing their little butts off, and there aint nothing I can do!!! I'm a great believer of indoor dogs, dogs should be a part of a family, just as any other family member. They are not just animals, they live in packs and have a social group, they should be included in family activities [b]including[/b] sitting infront of a warm heater watching tv. Me and the dogs don't like it, but can deal with them being outside during summer, but this is ridiculous. Mum justifies it by letting them in the sunroom, where it is just as cold as outside and has a tiled floor! Mums in bed now so I just snuck the dogs inside after watching Lily, my 6mo boxer pup trying to sit down but couldn't because the floor was too cold for her butt!! Mum says they are big dogs and belong outside, I say they are part of the family and they have feelings too, so they should be inside with us. Mum lets my sisters Poodle cross, Puddles, in the house for most of the day. I also think this is wrong, to seperate members of the pack and favour one over the rest. From what I can see Lily feels the cold more than Puddles anyway, its just not fair!!!! Please help me convince mum that the right place for my dogs really is in here with me, I love them as if they were my children, and I'm telling you, if I had children I certainly wouldn't lock THEM outside in the cold!!! :o

[quote name='Anonymous']Neither choke collars nor pinch collars nor 'check chains' are needed tools in dog training - they are items which should be thrown out not put on a dog! There are SO MANY better ways to train than hurting your dog (and yes the chokes and the pinch collars do hurt them which is why they work) Sure those collars work, pain training often does, but why do that if you don't have to?[/quote] Check Chains do NOT harm the dog. If it were the choking that trains the dog, then why is it that 99% of time the chain is loose and even when it is jerked the dog shows no signs of pain? If it was hurting the dog that taught it, I would need to use alot more than a little tug to teach my dog Tessa, she has a neck like a Bull Terrier and the pain withstanding of a Pit. If you still believe, for some strange reason, that a check chain works by hurting a dog, then what about the half check? That stops when it gets to a certain point, therefore can't hurt the dog. If it wasn't the sound that deterred the dog, then how on earth would this work? Think about it, all evidence shows that it is the sound the dog reacts to, not the pain. Check Chains are perfectly humane if used correctly and by all means, I believe they are the best method of training. As for pincher collars, I have never in my life seen one... but they do sound rather nasty!

sorry... um, feeling a bit embarressed now. :oops: I was thinking back to another post where a comment was made about guns being more effective than guard dogs.... I don't think my brain is quite where it belongs at the moment.... :-?

[quote name='K']Aroura...are you being funny now? :o "guest" suggests one of my dogs and then you suggest the other!!! :D A Saint while without doubt being a GREAT pet (in both senses of the word) will NOT make a good guarding dog!! they are also people friendly and the only deterrent they could offer is to drool excessively on your potential burgalar/armed robber and hope that they are disgusted enough to leave!! :lol: :lol: :lol: In this house we don't expect our dogs to guard(just to alert,which they ARE good at) we will do the guarding and protecting here!![/quote] Umm, wasn't trying to be 'funny', just fell in love with the breed and think they're a great breed for anyone who wants a big slobbery dog soft and snuggly dog thats gonna eat alot of food!!! Just figured I would never jump a fence with a Saint sittin behind it, however docile it was!!!! Just a gentle 'i love you' jump from a saint is enough to knock me down!!! Not many well socialized dog of any breed is particulary good as a 'guard' dog, most dogs have to do the job just by looking big. It is possible though, to train any breed to attack on command, and still be friendly when told to be. A dog that is trained to attack can be a dangerous weapon if left in the wrong hands. That comment about guns before, I disagree with strongly, for anyone no matter how sane they are. Guns are illeagle in many countrys, and it is for a good reason too!

[quote name='K']Hang on a minute is this "guest" trying to wind me/us up again!!??!![/quote] lol :lol: yes I am sure :) :P :D I'm beggining to think a big, gentle yet intimidating dog would be a good choice, like a saint bernard. If you want a really big breed, do alot of research into all the large breeds, because although they may not be with you for many many years, they will definatly be a BIG part of your life and you want to be sure you've got the breed which is best suited for your needs. I still suggest going to a shelter as most crossbreeds do live longer and a shelter dog will be forever grateful for its life. When I first went dog searching at the pound four years ago I fell in love with this massive mastiff cross puppy that was there, but mum never wanted a big dog, and I'm glad now because instead I came home with Tessa :D Many large breeds often end up at shelters anyway, as people just cant afford to feed them. If a giant size isn't that important to you, I'd go with a Boxer for sure! :D

Oh yes, definatly the halti is excellent for getting dogs to walk nicely beside you. I used to have one for Tessa before it turned to cinders in a house fire and it did wonders. They may be great for getting dogs to heal, but they aren't that good for 'training' a dog. With a check chain, once a dog is trained to heal on command it will, even when not on a check chain. Halties aren't so good for the training side of things, they are just good to stop a dog from pulling. As for the look, any educated dog lover would know what it is anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that. Just go with what you feel comfortable with.

I would really REALLY sugest going to a shelter. Mixed breeds live longer and they make just as good guard dogs. Good luck! :)

[quote name='beagle88']May!!!....Jail!!!.... I say stick a needle up ther arm!! :evil:[/quote] lol, true beagle, so true :wink:

[quote name='beagle88'][quote name='Anonymous']Actually she should already be leash trained but if you have her on a choke collar get rid of it! they have been proven to be bad for dog's necks. I suggest a trip to [url]www.clickertraining.com[/url] for more human solutions to train your pup. Jerking a dog around by the neck is no longer the training method of choice for responsible owners and trainers.[/quote] acctually they are not bad for the dog unless you put in on right and if you take it off as soon as you get done. :wink:[/quote] Agreed with Beagle. I have found the "check" chain (the word choke chain is incorrect, as they are not designed to 'choke' the dog, as it is the noise it makes that the dog responds to, not the 'choking') to be the best form of training, together with lots and lots of praise. My dog Tessa learnt this way, as did my Basenji/Foxie cross, my sisters poodle/chihuahua cross and my Boxer. I've never had, or heard of any problems resulting from using a check chain, unless you call a well behaved obedient dog a problem!!! A dog is more likely to develop problems from pulling on a collar than from healing nicely on a check chain! I'm all for check chains, they are a wonderful invention, the only time problems arise is when people don't know how to use them properly. Their like Pit Bulls of the collar world, treat them right and you'll be forever grateful, but if you are irrisponsible thats when problems could arise and the humble 'check chain' gets a bad name

Sashagirl, that pic is sooo cute!!!! Just thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in 8)