Aroura

Thanks for those links Horsefeathers, I'll check them out. As for the red meat/chicken meat thing, they only get a red meat bone every second day, and a little liver each day. The rest of the meat is chicken meat, which makes up most of thier diet. I cant cook any of these anyway because they contain bones. I used to cook for Tessa using the whole carbohydrate vs protein ratio you explained earlier. I'd spend hours in the kitchen cooking, then I would have to wait for it to cool, bag it etc etc and she didn't really like it that much, I admit she did go rather well on it, but I would personally prefer to feed the raw foods. I guess some dogs have a higher tolerance than others, and mine have eaten the grossest things where you can actually see the slimey bactia crawling on it and have never shown any signs of sickness, therefore, I personally see no need to cook the food for my dogs, although I see what you have said proves that it is not neccissarilly good for all dogs. I'll pass the links along to some dedicated BARF users too and see what they have to say... not saying your wrong, just after all oppinions!!! And guest, you know where you can stick that commercial diet...

Cooked or raw? NEVER feed cooked bones to dogs, they are a deadly weapon! As for steak bones, they are too hard for most dogs teeth. Try some lamb ribs and chicken necks, not only are they GREAT for the teeth, they are full of calcium and other things that growing pups need!

Thanks in advance for those links Horsefeathers. I know where your coming from, maybe it isn't 100% safe for all dogs, although I have never (apart from what you just said) heard of any negatives about it, and obviously as I said before, I wouldnt dream of feeding it to my dogs if I had any doubt at all in my mind that it may cause any harm. I know for a fact, proven by many, many studys that commercial dog food can cause all sorts of problems, even the *best* ones. If however I did have any doubts on feeding raw meat I would feed a home cooked version of the diet. Living in a place where no matter what my dogs will find 3 week old animal carcasses and have a chew on them though, I tend not to worry too much about feeding fresh raw meat from the supermarket! :lol: Explain what happend to you dog can you? Maybe there is some other expaination... just curious

Sounds like all it said was what common sence would say to anyone that used it! Gizmo, just wanna ask you, how do you get that banner signature thingie? I want my baby Lily at the bottom of all my posts but don't know how to get it!

Have you ruled out injury? He could have an object stuck in his intestines eg golf ball, I've heard of alot of dogs that get it! It is serious though, if he still doesn't eat I'd take him to the vet just incase or his intestines could start to rot where it is stuck. Do you leave his food out all day or give him controlled mealtimes? I prefer to feed the latter, then you can moniter more closely what your dog is eating etc, also because naturally dogs only eat once or twice a week, it is unatural for them to have food out all day. If you do feed only once or twice daily never leave the food out for more than 5 minutes if it doesn't finnish it. Have you tried tempting your dog with something like fresh meat mixed in? I used to have to do this with Lily before I switched her over to BARF, no matter what I fed her she wouldn't eat and she got so skinny I worried! I put yoghurt, mashed spuds, whatever I could to make her eat and she was still skinny. After a fortnight of BARF she is all muscle and perfect weight! Don't panic too much about the golf ball thing though, hes probably just being stubborn1!! :lol:

Can you believe this? [url]http://www.iamskills.com/index.shtml[/url] All those poor animals being treated as disposable items!!! US people, get on your phones and make that call!

Heres a link you all might find interesting [url]http://www.noahsark2by2.org/ethoxyquin.htm[/url] I've already tried questioning a few companys, but rather than saying what they put in their food they prefer not to answer. :-?

And Horsefeathers... didn't find any studys yet on BARF, but take a look at some studys done into the nutrition of wolves, I think you'll find they have alot less influence from the billion dollar industry of commercial dog food companys, and keep in mind that their digestive tracts remain the same :) I was wondering if you had any links to studys of your sources? That would be great, love to see both sides of a story! :D

Thanks guys, I know I shouldn't be phased, but sometimes people like that just get to me!!! Not that our guest has really gotton to me, I'm just sticking up for what I beleive in, and if I wasn't 100% certain that feeding BARF wasn't the best thing for my dogs I wouldn't spend so much time and money feeding it! :D Just one more thing to Guest before I ignore you completely, the beauty of BARF is that you can adjust it for your dogs needs, what you say about different dogs needing different things only proves my point. It is possible to feed a 100% balanced diet suited exactly to your dogs needs, something no commercial dog food will give you, and you can do it without the poisons they use in commercial dog food. All you have done in that argument is proove my point.

Quite honestly, I can't see whats so cruel about it! The dog was born that way, it knows nothing different. It looks happy and very healthy, keeping in mind that the photos are taken of the dog panting, all dogs toungs are remarkably longer when they pant! To have an operation would only cause unnecissary pain and stress, pluss the poor dog wouldn't be able to eat! Could you imagine someone chopping half of your toungue off? The only cruel thing those owners have done to their dog is hack half its ears off!!!

[quote name='buttercup1004']that age is fine 3 years is not too old u can get ur dogs spayed or neutered at 3 years actually i heard its safer that way[/quote] Not too sure about male dogs, but if females go through their first season before being spayed their chance of getting breast cancer increases by 40% and each heat after that it increases more, I will get Lily spayed once she has a litter or two. I'm not too sure about male dogs, but I wouldn't say it is [i]safer[/i] that way, but there is certainly no more risk than usual! Get him spayed, I'm sure you'll find yourself with a much nicer dog :D

Yes, well ignoring guests rudeness, I have since done extensive study and talked to a GREAT many people who have been feeding BARF for years and years, breeding on BARF and using BARF to correct allergys etc, so what I am saying is not just stuff that I have made up, it is based on real life storys and studys that have been done. Do you think that I would feed my dogs based on anything less? You seem so determined to make BARF sound bad and to make me sound like I don't know what I am talking about, but where have you stated what you feed your dog? Why do you think it is so much better? You say I didn't know much about BARF two months ago, what studys have you found prooving that what you feed is superior? Or are you just a dog food representative trying to cover the fact that BARF really is the best way to feed a dog?

[quote name='Anonymous']Sounds to me like you could be sold a bridge very easily - too bad you did not talk to the breeders I did who were feeding barf and wondering why all of a sudden they were getting NO litters at all no matter which dogs they bred! Not all diets are good for all dogs - and I don't care what diet you propose to use![/quote] Why is it 'too bad' I didn't talk to the breeders you did? I'm very happy with the choice I made to feed a BARF diet, at least I can go to sleep every night not worrying about what toxins I am shovelling into my dog each day. Quite obviously the people you talked to werent feeding properly and by the sounds of it there werent too many people you spoke to either I would rather know that what I feed my dogs every day is 100% goodness, and not loaded full of ethoxyquin and other sorts of yukkies.

Two of my favourite breeds :D :D :D Personally I think the dogs will be fine, it sounds like your pup just wants to play... of course I could be wrong but thats what my Boxer Lily does when she wants to play. She is rather a dominant dog and has taken to beating up the other dogs over bones but thats unrelated and I'm working on it, none of the fights so far have been serious and the other dogs are willing to back down, which also worrys me as Lily is only 7 months old and as far as I'm concerned shouldn't be top dog! Anyway, good luck with your pair, their great breeds and they'll bring you a great deal of joy for years to come!

[quote name='Anonymous']THE LARGEST EVERY LITTER WAS PRODUCED FROM BARF.....IT WAS PRODUCED FROM THE DOG AND BITCH. IF THAT WERE THE CASE ALL THE MILLS WOULD FEED IT. AND AS TO CANCER IN AN EARLIER POST. PLEEEEEEEZE A DOG IN THE WILD WILL CATCH ITS FOOD, IT WILL NOT THEN SKIN IT CUT OFF FEET, BEAKS ETC AND GUT IT, IT WILL EAT THE LOT. INCLUDING WHAT THE PREY HAD EATEN. I SUGGEST YOU GO BACK AND DO SOME MORE RESEARCH ON THE CANCER AND BREEDING BEFORE YOU MAKE THESE REMARKABLE QUOTES.[/quote] Its always the guests who like to have a go at people isn't it? Well 'Guest', I never said it was THE largest litter, and do you honestly think that the puppy mills would go through the bother of feeding a properly balanced BARF diet? Or even that they would be educated about it? As for the cancer bit, how much grains would a dog in the wild eat? The prey they fed on fed mostly on grass and leaves, not grains, and any grains they did eat would be all mushy and partially digested anyway. I think you are the one who needs to do the research before having a go at me, because I have done mine.

Newfiemom, buy the dog and he'll get rid of himself!!! :lol: Thats how I got rid of my ex, bought Lily and he was so pissed off (probably because the dog was cuter than him) and left, just like that! :D :D :D He was a looser though and I'm glad now because after him I completely gave up on guys, I had my dogs anyway I didn't need them!!! Anyway, I'd completely given up on them after a long run of LOOSERS! :lol: But then I met Mark and havn't looked back :P He's great cause he's not into material possesions, the only thing he's into is me and he loves my dogs!!! Newfiemom, stick with your dogs and a guy will find you when you least expect it, trust me on this one, I know! :D :D :D

Horsefeather, I might have to agree that we should agree to disagree! :lol: Although I will have a search around for some studys, I do understand where your comming from, I once thought the same but have seen too many outstanding results of BARF diets I think that it speaks for itself, just searching the BARF webwing and looking at all those super duper long lived puppy dogs convinced me! As well as a large number of breeders I talk to who use it and produce some of the healthyest pups... I was a bit wary about the whole breeding dogs and raising pups on raw meat, but when I found out none of the pups had ever died and one of the largest litters ever born was produced from BARF I realized that if young pups can handle it certainly adult dogs can! :wink: Julie, glad to hear you'll give it a go, read up on it as much as possible and theres a few good forums on BARF too that can help you with any questions you have! Good luck! :D :D :D

As for carbohydrates, dogs convert fats and vegetables into carbohydrates, grains and cereals can only lead to causing cancer. Here is a good link you may want to check out - [url]http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/nograin.shtml[/url] Depending on which source you talk to, you will find that most nutritionalists who have done extensive research into dog nutrition all agree that dogs should have at least 60 - 75% meat. Of course some beg to differ, but considering that throughout a vets university years they only get two speeches on dog nutrition, both by petfood representatives. In the other forum I post in everyone but one or two people are either vets or breeders, they all swear by BARF and have never had any problems with it. Probably one of the only people there who fed their dogs commercial food just found out their dog was sick from the toxins in the food (and yes, it was a well respected brand too!) So theres my 2 cents, don't mean to say you are wrong, just going by a number of respected nutritionalists and my personal observations. :wink:

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize, you're probably one of those irrisponsible breeders and so you don't want people knowing what to look for in a dog! :evil:

er well DUH! Obviously you RESEARCH the breed!!! Talk to reputable breeders and find out good kennel names etc. And OBVIOUSLY if the dog has a lot of ch. in its pedigree the ch. would be good dogs. Its not hard to really. Why don't you just grow up and get a life before you have a go at me, I was only trying to help. Nobody wants to spend thousands on a dog that will be ill its whole life!

Julia, try your rottie on a BARF diet, believe me you'll see a difference! Lily is nearly 8 months old now, and her whole life she has had sloppys poos, but within a week of feeding her on lots of bones, I can see an amazing difference!!! Search the net, there's plenty of sites on barf, as well as a barf web ring. Trust me, you wont be sorry. As for listing meat as the top three ingredients, think of it this way, for each of those meats, not much meat will be in it, a majority would be ground feathers, bones, beaks, feet etc, dog food companys couldn't make a profit if they put any good quality meat in their food, its all the stuff that gets thrown away, including dying, diseased animals and cancerous tissues, and is unfit for human consumpion. Meat listed as the top three ingredients is good, as at leas 60% of a dogs diet should consist of meat, but look more closely at the ingredients, chances are the grains etc are listed seperatly, therefore each is only a small percent, but add those percentages up and meat probably isn't the top ingredient anyway!!! Its all very confusing, I've emailed dog food companys questioning their ingredients, but never receive a reply... maybe their trying to cover something? :-?

[quote name='Betty']SO NO FREE PUPPIES. Unless you would do a spay or neuter contract with them. So they could not try to make any money off of your pups.[/quote] DEFINATLY not even then!!! For starters, where do they get off even ASKING for a free dog, let alone expecting it. Not to mention, if they aren't willing to pay for the dog, whats the chances they will get it vaccinated, wormed etc? Whats the chance they will still feel like FEEDING it in a years time!? And IF they bred the dog, one can assume they wont pay for a good stud fee, feed the pups good food, register them or even worm or vaccinate them, not if they think that dogs are worthless!!! If anyone ever expects a free pup from me I would tell them where to go and suggest they get a pet spider or something instead, something that wont cost them anything! The only person who would get a free pup from me is the guy who lent me $250 to get Lily and still insists that I don't pay him back. He has earnt it and I know the dog would be number one and that paying for food etc wouldn't be a problem!

If someone had been found dying in a human pit, it would have been broadcast all over the world and the whole world would be mourning. Isn't it sad that all a dog gets is a plea over the net to stop this inhumane act of cruelty? Some people have no morality and should be giving a needle to themself, not to an innocent dog!!! :evil:

I've been looking into the cost of breeding for a while now, and it looks like I'm going to have to save over $50 a fortnigh for over a year before I could even consider breeding, the costs for the breeder can be very expensive. Not only do you have to pay for food, vaccinations, microchipping, worming etc, you need to make allowances for emergancy vet bills that may come up. Good breeders don't breed to make a provit, they breed for their love of dogs AND to improve the breed. Don't go out and assume that because a dog is expensive it will be of good quality either!!! Alot of irrisponsible breeders will sell thier pups at a very high price hoping that ignorant people will think that just because the dog is expensive it is of good quality! Have a close look at the pedigree and see how good the blood lines are. Ask to see both parents as well as certificates to clear each of them for hereditary diseases. Go to a vet and have the pup checked AS SOON as you get it. Heres something I found in another forum written by a member about a book about how to breed a dog: I received an enquiry from a client over the weekend. They were trying, after reading the wonderful Bourkes Backyard The Experts Dog Breeds handbook, I think that is what it would be called anyway They are now prepared and ready to become breeders: A lesson on how to become a breeder. 1. Buy the book. 2. Go through the breeds and do your research, lol. 3. Pick breeds that are rare. 4. Buy any female dog of that breed. 5. Ask vets if they know of anyone with a male that they can use. 6. If no luck put a WANTED ad in the local paper. 7. Don't screen for heridatory disease, don't research the diseases associated with the breed, after all if you go in blind you can plead ingnorant. 8. Flog your progeny off to any person that wants a puppy. 9. If that fails, take 'em to the pet shop, that way you get rid of the pups that you can't shift. Sorry, just a bit peeved after the phone call and this person was even contemplating buying the female dogs partner, even thou he has Diabetes, after all it beats having to pay for a stud fee. You can never be sure sure when buying a dog, pedigree or not. Seeing both parents as well as vet certificates are your best bet, and don't worry too much about cost, an expensive well bred dog is alot cheaper than a cheap dog with hip displaysia!!!

I agree %100 about knowing how to use ANY training device properly, the whole reason they can get a bad name is from people using them incorrectly and injuring their dog! Just for anyone wondering, Lily is doing GREAT in her classes, training lessons 3 times a day are seeing her the top of her class, people are actually coming up to me and asking how I got her to walk so nicely!!! Not only that, everyone has fallen madly in love with her and the whole class want a boxer! Its not a small class either, but Lily, being the class clown, has made sure she captured everyones heart. She makes me proud every day :D