courtnek

Zeelah, you dont have to hunt to own a hunting dog. I own two of them and I have never hunted in my life. The allusion to hunting really comes down to giving them enough exercise. With two now its actually easier. Now, I have a large fenced yard, and they both play in it quite happily. chase each other, and squirrels, and the raccoons. They have lots of room to run off their energy. But even without one, enough excercise and good training is really all it takes. they dont need to hunt, butthey do need to exercise. Its not exactly the same as a herder, who are "job orientated" ay job you give them where they can run out their energy is fine with them. A simple game of fetch (for the retriever) and "run" for the hound (I've taught her this command, and left downed tree branches in the yard.) She will do circles around the yard, jump over the trees, entice Free to chase her. Free cheats and cuts her off, but she turns on a dime and keeps going. Its good for both of them.

I am SOOOO sorry Nay.....i dont know what to say other than <<hugs>>

[img]http://www.kevinsorbo.net/images/hercules/garden.jpg[/img] he played Hercules in the TV series. he's a cutie

[quote]The only thing I'm really, really adamant about is the baying thing. Living next door to a pack of beagles, I have become very, very opposed to baying. So I would try really, extra hard to find a home for any scent hound (or mix) that somehow stumbled into my temporary possession. [/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: when you own and love one, it grows on ya... :D

I like Holly and Noel. heres some more off the wall ones.... Tinsel Mistletoe Laurel (as in Laurel wreath) Bangle (as in ornaments) Carole Pixie (as in Pixie dust) Yule Elf

hey HF if I run into Kevin Sorbo in any of MY dreams I dont want to be waken up either, ok? I'll sleep on the floor so not to disturb you.... :lol: :lol: :lol: I think mostly the larger hunting and high prey breeds probably have more "movement" dreams then other, although I have heard of terriers doing it too....do you know if your pup has ever really chased anything, even squirrels in the yard? My lab x has moving dreams all time, my hound once in a while. my lab chases critters in the yard (and kills them if she catches them :oops: :oops: ) but the hound doesnt. seems out of place without her pack...

I apologize if I confused you. For some reason, while I was thinking Newfie, I type malamum. Malamutes are NOT like Saints, but Newfies are in some ways. Sorry about that. :oops: :oops: :oops:

y'know, tho it took a while to get used to, I actually like the bay now. its such an interesting sound, and they're all different, like a bark. I have learned what Laurel's different tones mean, and variances, and length, etc. its really kinda cool, and it scares the bejeezus out of strangers :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I think they think I have a wolf in the house.... :evilbat:

here, Labs, Goldens, shih-tsu's (I see those a lot for some reason, but theres a lot of elderly people too) and probably shepherds. the GSD kind. the older people seem to like the shih-tzus.... I honestly think there is a lab golden or GSD on every block. we have one beagle across the street and Laurel and him bay at each other when they're both outside. I can see the neighbors grimacing when that goes on so I bring her in.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

well, now I should say, Labs and Goldens can be laid back, obedient, gentle and loving, if trained and treated properly. Unfortunately, people expect them to train themselves because they are so touted by breeders and magazines. They CAN be great dogs....Free is good even with her issues, caused mostly by my ex. Labs raised properly make lousy guard dogs, they like everybody. Please dont get me wrong, they are wonderful and I personally love them, but only because I know what I'm doing in the training department. untrained and unsocialized, they are a strong, sturdy dog who will take over if you let them. those are usually the ones you see at the vet and Petco who are dragging their owners down the aisles....

HIDE? HIDE? THIS CAT? no , he is just being Ford..."I'm COOL..NO ONE can touch me... grrrr.... he needs an attitude adjustment..which I may administer... :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat:

they are now wrapped in heating pads and blankets. Ford escaped when I let the dogs in. There is 1/2 inch of show on the ground, and he took off like a bat out of hell. i chased him half a block in bare feet, in the snow, till I trapped him under a bush and caught him....he is lucky I didnt kill him on the spot. My feet are SOOO cold.... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: he will NOW be locked in the bathroom whenever I let the dogs out or in........damn escapist....

HF I think your Tucker falls into the "well trained, well socialized" group. The labs I speak of DONT faLL into that group including Free (thanks to my ex) you have such a strict schedule at home because of your "pack" that dogs tend to behave because they have no choice. and thats a GOOD thing! any dog brought up in a house with stern rules, expectations, and training, will fold to the pack rules. They have to, they have no choice. You and your hubby are good Alphas. thats what they all need. the ones that dont get it are the ones that cause problems. good for you HF!!

I dont think anyone was lumping them into a spaz group, just some of us were showing the downsides of them being advertised by breeders as the "perfect family dog"...and the kid she snapped at? not at all uncommon for a lab. while a well socialized one should never bite a child, or anyone else, labs are known for that "warning snap"....my lab x does it now. basically they grab the hand of the "offender" (and kids can be very offensive, without realizing it) and clamp down. rarely do they break skin, they do mostly have bite inhibition built in (unless their mixed with something less hunting related) but they do have their limits and this is how they show them. a lab mix or a badly socialized/untrained one can and have bitten people, severely. thats why I always stress to people that this is a BIG dog, with a head and neck strong enough to knock you off your feet if it wanted to, a jaw just as big and wide. its not a pushover just because its a lab. these dogs are strong enough to drag a 6 ft 200 lb man down the street if determined enough.....Free's a mix, and could and HAS dragged me down the street before I got her harness...and she doesnt have the huge head and neck of a purebred....

K, our sys-admin has Saints. she wont be on til later though since she's in a different country/time zone. She can give you lots of info. Also, Malamum has Malamutes, which are somewhat similar.She may be able to help too.

[quote]Labs are slow to mature, high energy, shed, have oily coats and many have a genetic predisposition to obesity. However, with the right handling and careful food management they make excellent pets for the right family/person[/quote] thats another thing. the coat. too many people I know with labs bathe them WAY too often, which washes out the natural oils. They NEED those oils to both protect them from the cold (makes them water reistant) and to keep their skin healthy. they are short haired dogs, and even with the double coat, they need those oils to keep the coat healthy and to protect them. the bad side to that is that if they lean up on your walls, they leave marks. My answer to that was to paint the house with "kid paint". its a completely everything proof paint. crayons, markers, food, lab oil, doesnt matter. all it takes is sponge and water and off it comes. I dont think most people realize how oily a labs coat will get(they are complete fluffballs when puppies) when they buy them. Then suddenly mom is tired of scrubbing the walls after they grow up....

[quote]DO, you're right about how they get so fat, though. We see so many obese Labs, it's unreal. [/quote] [size=2][/size]they're so cute when they beg. [size=3][/size]really though, a lot of that is that they can and do look pathetic when they're begging, and they're sneaky. you have to be firm willed to ignore a begging lab. most peoplearent, but a family of 5, everyone sneaking food to the dog when the others arent looking, makes for a fat furball.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

ask and you shall receive..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: yes, I love Labs. and Goldens, and most scenthounds and hunting dogs (even with the bay) as you all know. However, I wont defend them, for many reasons. Labs are unfairly protrayed as the best thing since sliced bread, and thats why those of you who rescue see them, and their mixes, constantly. as was mentioned, you cant get a lab without realizing in no time at all that they are high energy. not nearly as high as a BC, say (which I wouldnt own cuz I workfull time and it wouldnt be fair to the dog) but high enough energy that yes, they WILL destroy your house if they're bored, they WILL escape after an interesting scent, they WILL take over your household if you let them. and yes, they DO bite. "Perfect Family Dog" only applies when the family takes the time to train them, exercise them and make them obey. yes, make them. they often require a strict hand, even with formal training. My labbie x would be a nightmare for an unknowing owner. cute, sneaky, openly defiant, sometimes aggravating...she needs someone who will put their foot down and at times MAKE her obey. SHe knows all the commands, she will at times openly refuse to obey them. These are intelligent animals, many (like Free) capable of intelligent disobedience. lauded in a well trained guide dog, a nightmare in an untrained house dog. i.e...if I let free out and then call her to come back in, she wont if she hasnt finished going. Some people might make her come in, and then be mad at the mess that will happen. that said, I will probably always own one, since I understand them and with that knowledge they do make great pets. Now, while I will fight for the right of anyone to own a Pittie(or any other type of dog) I personally will not own one. I am not home all day, and I am a multi-dog household. Sadly, I would not want to take the chance. and I would not want to have to seperate them or crate one. I come home from work and my two are cuddled up together on the couch or the bed. Laurel being raised in a pack, requires close body contact with people and Free. Free is just learning to tolerate it. No miniature poodles, altho I like the standards. Sorry HF, but I'm just not a small dog person. No chihauhau's, or JRT's, or Yorkies, etc. Someday maybe when i cant handle big dogs anymore, I'll get a Papillion. I couldnt keep a sighthound, Greyhound, or whippet. While I KNOW better, I couldnt look at the dog at its proper weight without thinking it was sick......and too skinny. I would not be a good owner of these dogs. also, (now dont shoot me) I doubt I will EVER have another puppy. Cute, yes. Cuddly? yes. Too much work? YES.....and I prefer shorthaired dogs overall. Oh, the one exception to my small dog rule would be a beagle.I could easily live with one of them. NONE of them can bay as loud as Laurel does..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I dont believe they really know whats going on, nor do they care. They are in the business of selling pet supplies and pets. What might help, although no guarantees, is bringing up and printing things like Wizard of Claws, puppy millers, and shelter info on what happens to these pups when they dont turn out the way the owners expected, and mailing them to the runners of the pet stores. Maybe nothing will come of it, maybe something will. it cant hurt to try...

I'M JEALOUS!! I wanted to meet DO, but now its too cold...maybe in the Spring....

I AM sorry about Grandpa, and Grandma, but at least they lived to ripeold ages for doggies...please dont take that bad, they have come to the point where it may be time to go.I am glad they could get this far without major issues....I am sorry it happend at Christmas. NO ONE should be sick,or die at Christmas. Best wishes and prayers to them. I, personally, am very glad that PushyC@t will make it thru Christmas. I dont know how long he will make it after that, but I am pleased he has made it past this point,with no suffering.... best Holiday wishes to you and yours. Best hopes that the pups make a longway further... All the hopes and prayers for Pushy seemed to have helped, so I am sending Laurels loudest bay (VERY loud), Free's happy whine, PushyC@t's elegant strut, and Ford's endless energy (PLEASE take some, he's wearing me out) to Grandma and Grandpa's well being...

I started to laugh on reading this. GOD FORBID Laurel ever "bark" to come in. Her "bark" is a long, drawn out bay...sounds like a wolf howl to the unknowing.....I'd probably end up with AC here if she did that normally... they HAVE been here because of her bay before...one neighbor thought she was in distress or pain, and called AC and sent them over... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Merry Christmas Paula, and many happy returns. Your kids (fur and not) are beautiful... :D

Boosie, just fYI....some dogs are what is called "touch sensitive"..Free is one. There is a test you can try to see. Pick up peanuts foot, and press down slightly and hold. not hard, not to hurt, just pressure. Most non touch-sensitive dogs will last 15 to 30 seconds without complaining, then try to pull away. A touch sensitive dog will try to pull away within 5 to 10 seconds. remember, not hard, no pain, just pressure. If Pixie is touch sensitive, that changes how you handle. this dog will not like to have feet touched, will get frightened by even a minor snag while brushing. You still have to accustom him to being handled, but you have to be MUCH gentler about it. Free doesnt like anyone to touch her head, since I didnt know about touch sensitivity when she was a puppy and I have always rubbed my dogs heads vigorously. She was the first dog that complained. Now I pet her gently on the head and dont handle her feet much unless they're wet. she never needs her nails trimmed, so thats a good thing.....even when her feet are wet, they have to be wiped gently and quickly...

oh I see your point. Laurel doesnt bark to come in, she jumps up on the door, which I can hear but ignore. Free will bark to come in, but she knows better than to play the food game. Laurel is much more manipulative than Free, but Free's been here since she was a pup. Feeding first sounds like a good idea, throw off his train of thought a little. good luck