rotten_two

those are great tricks guys!

aw great news! congratulations! [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_25.gif[/img]

you could always send her to stay with cousin aspen -- just kidding! i do agree with kat and OG that sending her away won't solve anything except your immediate stress! i can't tell you how many people ask daily if we board and train. always the answer is no because it doesn't teach the human anything and really all the dog learns is there are different rules around me than the owner. waste of money, time, etc. i agree that you need to give her some special time with you away from cody and boonie. she does well on walks -- why not give her an extra 10-15 minute walk each day just the two of you? it serves 2 purposes really 1) you build the bond but 2) more exercise and tired pups are less destructive, pacey, obnoxious, etc. i know you have 3 and that is more than a handful but if she is disobeying maybe more practice is in line? take 10 minutes and train -- just the two of you. go back to basics with her -- sit, down, stay. easy stuff and make sure you follow thru. if you tell her to sit -- she must sit. if she complies on the first try give her lots of treats. if she ignores you then help her sit by luring with food, or gently placing her in a sit. keep positive but she also needs to realize you intend to enforce your cues to her. make her sit for her food. make her sit at the door before her walk. the littlest things can help you here. buy each pup a special toy -- doesn't have to be expensive but only let that dog play with his/her toy. have a special playtime with you, the dog, and the toy. i know the concept of getting her out of your hair is tempting but if you are anything like me i would miss her something fierce! now if you just need a "me day" maybe you could get someone to dogsit for a day. justin's parents? hang in there -- we know you can do it!

ok people once again i am bored out of my mind at work [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_4_23.gif[/img] so i was trying to think of a good discussion topic! don't know that this qualifies but what tricks in your dog's repertoire are your favorites? my aspen can do so many tricks that i have a hard time choosing but it is adorable to see him wave and he can do it with either paw. you can give him verbal or hand signals. he also speaks on command at 2 volumes -- his inside voice or his outside voice. i would have to say my personal favorite is his weave thru my legs as we walk! ever see a male rottie weave? you have to take huge steps -- good thing my legs are long! for gaia i love to see her crawl -- she gets in that frog dog position and belly crawls -- too cute. i am working now on a trick called pop where she springs up in the air from a sit. my goal is to be able to sing pop goes the weasel and have her pop appropriately -- oooh maybe even out of a box if i can find one big enuff! i have recently taught them both to pick it when i drop something. most often they pick their kongs from the back corners of the crates -- really saves my back!

thanks for the replies guys! yeah i told him that at worst gaia and aspen might have a small knot for a couple days but nothing like he describes. he says she does not seem painful in that area. i have encouraged him to go to my vet and let her have a look at it! maybe they did just damage the tissue -- but the color change worried me?! thanks again!

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_104.gif[/img] that's great news!

neither gaia nor aspen is very fond of the rain! when gaia goes outside to go potty she always hunkers under a shrub so that she doesn't get so wet! both do their thing and run back up onto the porch and wait to go inside. they know that they get their feet wiped and they are very cooperative. as far as exercise inside we have our finished basement as a dedicated play area. we set up agility down there. tunnels, hoops, jumps, weaves and that takes the edge off on rainy days. we also play hide and find -- one of us will go hide some treats and then the pups find them. we do a lot of new trick training on rainy days. gaia loves to play "gonna get you" she has a special toy that comes out only for this game. the other easy way to tire out pups with cabin fever is to have them fetch up and down stairs. all the running gets some of the energy out.

my officemate has a 7mo old mini schnauzer named molly. at 4mos molly got her first rabies vaccination. this morning brian told me that she still has a knot on her hip that is kinda squishy kinda hard in the place they gave the shot. it has become more prominent and is turning her fur black in that area. i asked what happened when they gave the shot and he said she was fine until they took the needle out then she started screaming and they had to give her something to calm her?! i had never heard of such! i also asked him if he had brought it to the attention of his vet? he said yes everytime they go in they bring it up. i personally go to the same vet practice but i do not like his vet. i see the holisitc vet in that practice. anyway his vet told him she sees this in small dogs all the time. any small dog parents out there that can attest to this? any other guesses as to what may have happened? DO -- you see this much where you work?

ok i just found this post and i really must comment because aspen has some really severe cow hocks. i will illustrate with a picture of ms olympia -- gaia -- her hocks are great, hips tight she is a machine physically. then a pic of aspen who had a congenital growth plate abnormality. nothing we could have feed or supplemented would have prevented it -- really a result of his poor pedigree. basically his growth plates closed early so his bones started to angle and rotate. his front legs are very very slightly angled but his back end is the worst. normal [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/rotten_two/gaia_hock.jpg[/img] not so normal [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/rotten_two/asp_hock.jpg[/img] i can definitely say that in aspen this is a weakness. we try not to let him jump (we have a step up onto the bed and a ramp for the car) and we don't like him to run too fast. his muscles are very weak in his backend. he has been to more than 3 specialists who have all wanted to operate operate operate but he has some other health issues and doesn't tolerate anesthesia very well. so for now we have him on glucosamine and some other supps, chinese herbs and acupuncture. he does quite well -- he has never known any different! he plays and gets around fine (he just waddles -- which yes gives him character) we don't let him get too tired or he gets stiff. i don't think i have heard of cow hocks going away until this thread. certainly i don't expect aspen's legs to get better. i do hope aroura that diego "grows" out of it.

good girl faith! [url]http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/29/canine.caller.ap/index.html[/url]

wow! that is really cool! did you give him a big tip?

loved it! almost spewed cranberry juice when i read the one with the great danes!

bravo all of us -- especially cc for being open to suggestions and wanting to better the shelter! i think we are all saying the same thing which is the best hope for behavioral change is thru postive methods. cc -- i know all too well how difficult it can be to "train" people. 90% of dog training is teaching the handler. everything you ever want to teach a dog -- he already knows how to do -- the trick is teaching the handler to mark and reward behavior appropriately! i really do sympathize with your struggles. i think the best thing for you to do given your situation (you don't have infinite time with these dogs) is to use postive methods when you are there. as much as we want to we can't do it all ourselves. so you do what you can and know you are making a difference. i don't mean to sound like i am attacking shelters or fosters -- god bless all involved, but sometimes you get individuals involved that have hearts in the right place but they do let pups get away with lots. let me give you a for instance -- aspen is a rescue pup and his foster mom -- god love her for taking him in -- made training him so much harder. in the 3 weeks he was with her he was allowed to chew shoes, access to outside whenever (unsupervised), to pee in the crate because she needed her 8 hours/nite, etc. made it a little harder to untrain all that stuff. lucky for us he is such a smart boy :) i will pm you a bit later with some suggestions for josie :)

why not try to educate those who 'work' with the dogs at the shelter? in order for any training method to be successful you have to be consistent. seems to me if you are the only one trying to train or modify behavior then already you have a strike against you. i am a huge +R advocate and those are the methods i use when i train. as to whether or not there is a quick fix -- i think behavior modification takes time period. if you are clear and consistent and the dog is responsive to you then you may be able to accomplish some goals more quickly. first puppies are not wolves. i am completely against alpha rolls. generally alpha dogs don't have to assert this kind of force -- when you see status related issues it is usually between lower class citizens -- alphas usually need do very little to "prove" themselves. that is not to say they won't ever remind pack members who is in charge. those status seeking members are the ones making all the fuss because they are not secure with their place in the pack. so my suggestion is to not alpha roll! think about it -- pup is "slightly" dog aggressive -- so she is not comfortable near other dogs -- or at least not as close as she was in this instance. i think i would try to find a safe distance (and it may be quite large at first) where she is not so reactive ask her to sit and give her lavish praise and snacks when she is not obsessing with other dogs. (btw do we know why she is so reactive? is it fear based?) commands like watch me can work wonders here. no this is not a quick fix but by rolling her you are essentially punishing her for being in an uncomfortable situation. better to move her out of the situation and praise when she does the correct thing which is anything besides snap, snarl and lunge! then you can gradually try to decrease the distance between her and other dogs. josie is kind of the same story. for a while she is comfortable then she flips. my first question would be what happened right before she flipped? short increments seem to be in order here. let her socialize for 3 minutes and remove her -- do some training away from other dogs. then try 4 or 5 minutes. the key is to figure out how long she can be nice and then work on building up her exposure time from there. watch me would be valuable here too. i say nix the squirt bottle -- again you are punishing her for feeling uncomfortable. you said you have tried distracting her with several things -- toys? food? i mean the good stuff like hot dogs and chicken? you can always put yourself between her and whatever she is looking at -- might buy you a second or two to get her attention focused elsewhere. to me if you are worrying that you are hurting a dog you are probably not using the correct method! so all in all i don't think i told you what you want to hear and i am sure there will be a long and sordid list of those who have different views than mine. there are many ways to deal with the same problems. personally i would start with the people at the shelter and talk with them and get a game plan together so that everyone is on the same page with how dogs will be managed. in the long run it will help the dogs become more adoptable if certain basic manners have been reinforced. it is not a hard process (+R) but it does require some organization and that you all be consistent and patient. good luck!

good luck little tigger -- you'll be good as new soon!

haha suucccccker! never leave a dog to watch your food :) aspen and gaia do this to each other all the time. oh hey look over there -> (steal toys). very sneaky!

very cool site kat! i hope it brings you tons of customers!

good thoughts from over here too! get well soon diamond!

good luck! i hope everything works out and you get to add a furbaby!

geez boy -- how much time y'all got? our whole finished basement is a dedicated romper room complete with an old couch, agility equipment for rainy days, and tons of toys and snacks! whenever we grill outside we throw something on for the dogs (like they care if their chicken is mesquite or not haha) they get acupuncture and chiropractic treatment if needed i think our food bill for dogs exceeds human food bill my truck was purchased with their utmost comfort in mind they are spoiled rotten :D

how bout a cat? haha i guess that could hurt the dog too tho! we had a little field mouse once and the dogs went nuts trying to get at it! looked like a cartoon they were uprooting rugs and furniture!

yep of course there will be a quiz :) clicks for you ess!

so you decided to go with pixie? that is cute! she looks very sweet!

i think we fit it correctly last night so i doubt it needs to be loosened unless you readjusted it. if it is too loose he will be able to wiggle out of it, but if you think it is too loose loosen just a smidge. squishes his face? near the corners of his mouth you mean? is he pulling when his face is squished? make sure the nylon is not twisted and that you have room to get a finger between the snout loop and the snout. when he is dive bombing and rolling about (funny aspen used to swear he couldn't walk he would just fall down with his gentle leader on) give him something else to do. work on sit, down, come, and yes attention -- anything to distract him from thrashing. when he is doing what you ask reward him. when you put it on give him treats, if ever he is not fussing at it lavish him with treats and praise. you want to impress upon him that the gl is a good thing and it usually means lots of snacks for him. use high value snacks too like cheese, chicken, hot dog -- not everyday snacks. eventually you want to pull out the gl and have him shove his head willingly in it because it signals treats, a car ride, a walk, training time -- all the good stuff in a dogs life.

it was nice to meet you too ESS! and carson was a real cutie! nov8 is carson's first basic obedience class! he will have a jump start on everyone since he did a private lesson first hee hee! i am so glad you and your dad signed on for my class - it should be lots of fun! i know i have a jrt in the class too -- from the sounds of it tho he is a real wild thang! i will have to check about the other 2 dogs that will be in that class! i would just like to point out that bethany caught on to the clicker concept quicker than most adults do! gonna get carson into shape in no time :D