rotten_two

geeez! keeping you and pups in our thoughts and prayers! [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_10.gif[/img]

aspen and gaia send their regards and get well wishes to perry pup! [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/13/13_1_209.gif[/img]

AWWWWWW <heart melting> such a sweet little girl. hello tigger and welcome! we dogos look forward to hearing all about your precious puppy antics! mouse i am thrilled for you!

kat sometimes you just can't get it thru their thick heads! stupidity abounds i say. only playing? yeah right, which game is that exactly? omd! mouse that is the cutest little bag of wrinkles ever! congrats!

when was the last time kagome saw the vet? if it has been a while you may want to take her in and make sure there are no underlying problems causing her to cry. do you do much body handling with her? you know like stroking, looking in her ears, mouth, feet? it almost sounds like she is not accepting of things touching her. have you had her since puppyhood? there could have been some trauma in her life somewhere that makes her sensitive to things touching her. these may/may not be her problems but i am just trying to think what might cause this behavior. some dogs are just kind of wimpy about their personal space. i have seen dogs that yipe if you get too close to them and have also seen dogs that could not careless if you fall on them. your vet might be more able to make a conclusion. submissive urination -- that is what is happening when she rolls over and pees. there are a couple things that are important here. do not scold under any circumstances. if you scold then she will only be more submissive and the problem is likely to get worse. clean it up and act like it never happened. do you do much training with her? sometimes overly sensitive dogs need to build up some confidence and training, agility, pet/parent bonding type activities can help. in general let her approach people. don't loom over her, don't reach and pat her on the head and don't make a big fuss. in greeting her it is probably best to ignore her the first 5 minutes you are home or have company. then when you finally do acknowledge her approach her from the side and pet her under her chin or on the chest as these body postures are less intimidating. pooping in the house -- hmmm so she goes outside plays then comes in and poops? at my house it is the other way around. go outside go potty/poo and then you get the life reward of play. some dogs learn that when they poop outside the fun ends and they have to go back inside so they try to hold it for as long as they can and they go potty/poo in the house. i would suggest modifying her outside routine (you need a potty poo command if you don't have one already). if you suspect she has to go potty/poo then take her to her potty yard or where ever she normally goes, give her the potty cue, and give her ample time to do the doo! when she does it give her lots of praise and treats (i wouldn't be too boisterous given her skittish nature) and then let her play with a favorite toy or let her sniff around for 5 minutes whatever makes her happy. now if you catch her in the act in the house you need to interrupt her by saying no, outside -- and i bet you don't even have to be that firm with her-- then take her outside. with this particular dog i would be careful about walking over and picking her up to take her outside. maybe you can say no outside and call her to the door, get a leash on and then take her outside and show her where she is supposed to go. it is harder if you don't catch her in the act because she doesn't get interrupted and redirected but also because she gets a big sense of relief by eliminating. i hope this is helpful to some degree -- again i would get her checked at the vet just to make sure she is healthy.

yes mouse i believe you are correct -- in some programs the cgc test is a part of therapy dog certification :D

[color=indigo]YAY! TIME FOR A PUPPY PARTY[/color] [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_102.gif[/img] [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_102.gif[/img] [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_1_120.gif[/img] [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_1_120.gif[/img]

well said DAL :roll: i also agree with you kendalyn -- the more i hear the worse it sounds -- not to mention i am more confused now. [quote]I'm very sorry if you guys didn't pass the 1st grade[/quote] very nice and grown up too!

i too caught that k!

my sentiments exactly! why the heck was she out in a thunderstorm anyway? i don't see the humor in this story.

[color=red]BRAT TERRIERS![/color] my dogs were total brat terriers last nite! they would not leave the other alone for 2 seconds. they had to bite and snarl and wrassle! finally we got the ole "if you can't beat em . . ." mindset and we played find and chase with them to try to tire them out! maybe it was the full moon?

the more unbelievable thing is that people will likely pay top dollar for these things! the thing they don't mention is that while you may inherit some good qualities from both breeds you may also get some bad qualities (health concerns) from both as well! how many freakin breeding dogs do they have anyway? totally irresponsible :evil: :evil:

i agree they have gone too far. it is getting so out of hand with these designer mixes.

my understanding is that they can have the raw meaty bones preferrably with the marrow if you get them fresh from the butcher or grocery. they are "softer" than the processed type you might get in a pet store. besides wolves don't chew on kong toys right? there are a number of kong and kong like toys available. rhino bones -- they even have one for destructive chewers. i have tried them and while they don't last forever with our 2 i would much rather replace them than pay for a root canal. kong balls and if your dog really enjoys chewing maybe the dental kongs with the ridges would help satisfy the need -- tho according to this dr it will not help with tooth cleaning. tire biters are pretty good tho my two did manage to eventually chew a hole in it. everydog is different so what is good for one may not be good for another. my dogs happen to be big chewers and their teeth are evidence so i think i will restrict my dogs to the hard rubber type toys and see what happens. i am sure not all dogs chew as voraciously as they do so they might be fine with a harder chewie. i guess i was just a little surprised and shocked by the whole doggie dentist adventure!

no there are not many places that can do a root canal if needed near us. we are thinking of checking in va and pa but by the time we travel it may still come out to cost us nearly the same. who knows it is a crappy situation. i didn't mean to discredit this dr or even imply that she did not like rotties. i get the feeling she is not comfortable in general (small dogs and cats included) in her particular profession. i did not see her interact with other dogs or animals so i can't say that it is a rottie thing. i am sure she is perfectly fine when they are asleep haha. the staff was great and they all seemed pleased to meet gaia.

it *could* be i will have to call and ask. i go to a holistic vet and in general their prices run a bit high but you are right it is worth checking into at least for the bloodwork. i dunno about the xrays -- whether my vet could get the films they would need i dunno -- some of these specialists get a bit greedy er um picky! how dental specific they need be i will have to ask. good suggestion tho thanks.

i just found the website of the animal dental center where we went yesterday. if you click client services and then explore facility and resources or patient care you will see where the price comes from. it was not explained to me yesterday that they have a digitized radiograph process -- that doesn't sound cheap! they also have heated waterbeds during surgery to stabilize body temp etc etc. it seems very high tech and thusly my quoted price! unfortunately with her "bad" tooth -- xrays are the only real way to determine what is going on. in our area these guys are basically the only game in town (if you call 1.5 hours away our area) for this type of treatment :( acckkkk! helps if i give the website :oops: [url]http://www.animaldentalcenter.com[/url]

a ride it may be but yes gaia is having some problems specifically with a cracked pre molar and is clearly having some pain. she is not eating/chewing on that side nor picking up toys anymore. she had many other chipped teeth too -- apparently from the hard chew toys we have supplied. the dentin of the pre-molar is exposed and the xrays will determine what course of action should be taken in regard to that tooth. if there were no xrays involved the cleaning would likely be much less.

good grief! you think human dentists are bad -- try going to the doggie dentist! somehow we always manage to be referred to the "high end" specialists! oh my gosh we got lectured for 30 minutes at least and then we saw the estimate :o . lucky my fiance didn't pass out! we did learn some interesting tidbits tho and i will pass them on. firstly doggie teeth are much weaker than human teeth. their jaws are much stronger and can exert more pressure mind you but the actual tooth has less enamel and more dentin which makes it structurally weaker. like a paper thin layer of enamel. the older the dog is the smaller the root canal. they can tell a dog's approximate age by looking at an xray of the teeth. dogs teeth are secured in the jaw by ligaments and therefore have some give within the jaw. a dog can kill a tooth by exerting too much pressure on something. here is the big shocker and maybe some of you knew this already but it goes against everything i have been told or read. dogs should not chew anything harder than their kibble. no cow hooves no pressed rawhide no nylabones no galileo bones no sterilized cow bones no ice cubes when teething and greenies are to be allowed only if heated for a few seconds in the microwave to soften them. she says greenies are some of the worst offenders for breaks in the 4th molars (important teeth for chewing). kongs and toys made of rubber substances are ok. this dentist thinks we train our dogs to chew these hard things and beyond their teething needs they should not be allowed to chew anything harder than their dry kibble. they should grow out of their chewing phase in other words. she says contrary to popular belief chewing these objects does not help to clean the teeth -- otherwise human dentists would recommend chewing bones to clean our own teeth. this part makes sense to me and i will be disgarding the hard bones in our house (sorry puppies). she says the most important thing is to brush their teeth EVERY DAY. we brush their teeth but not every day :oops: guess we will be working on that too! my gaia is a power chewer and always has been as evidenced by her exam yesterday. nearly all of her teeth are showing some wear and some chips here and there. i think the dr employed a little bit of "scare" tactic with us saying that if she is allowed to continue to chew these hard objects we are risking her dental health. the root canal in young dogs is larger and it doesn't take much to wear a tooth down since the enamel is so thin. if something were to get into the root canal you risk infection and loss of tooth. she also pulled the ole i won't know how bad it is until i can get some xrays. gaia does need a cleaning but holy cow the low estimate for just the cleaning, xrays, anesthesia was $880 :o :o and the high end if any work root canal etc needed to be done is $1690. of course she made sure to justify and itemize all the costs. for instance gaia will be assigned a tech to sit with her before, during -- to monitor her, and until she is out of recovery (this i like). $14 here and $27 there and we have $880. admittedly the xray and anesthesia are the most expensive portions. then the pre-op bloodwork etc. of course the big sap i am for my dogs and their well being i will likely get it done. i will check around for other dentists but because they seem so into the dog's well being i will likely end up having it done at this luxury dog dentist! they are worth it. oh and the other thing i wanted to tell you guys is this . . . so we go to the doggie dentist -- a profession where you have chosen to put your hands into a dog's mouth -- and she is very scared of gaia. i will remind you that gaia is an 80 pound rottie female -- if you know rotties then you know she is somewhat a lightweight -- at least in the eyes of what most american breeders say -- to me she couldn't be more perfect. she was lying down quietly in the corner when the dr came in and you could just see on this dr's face the look of terror when she entered. she was very skittish. gaia got up walked over to her and sat politely at her feet for petting. the dr first backed away but then proceeded to smack/pat her in the head -- all the while gaia is squinting but loving the attention. i basically played vet tech by holding gaia's head and opening her mouth for the exam. gaia was very good and even the dr made that comment. still she remained quite shy and didn't really pet her further. i would think you would enjoy dogs (of all sizes) in this field but apparently not. i just think it is so weird when people in the pet industry seem not to be pet people!

thanks, me too! i hope they fix her up good as new :) haha i made a rhyme!

hmmm health or care, health or care? couldn't figure so i did the eeeeneee meeeenneee and ended up here. anyone ever had any dental work (other than general cleanings) done on their dog? my gaia has badly chipped a premolar and needs a root canal :o . because she is so young the vet does not recommend extraction. i myself have never had a root canal but i have heard the horror stories. i guess the good news is that she will be in la la land for the procedure. we go tuesday to the doggie dentist for our consult :D gaia is a power chewer and actually has several chipped teeth but this one chipped in such a way to expose the pulp so it is very painful for her. i have noticed she is not chewing her food on that side and she snubs treats that are on the crisp side. my poor girl!

yes the ole hurry up and wait syndrome! oh i am sorry your other dog died prematurely. that is certainly never fun and we never want to think about what good may come of it. look at it this way -- they said 2 -4 weeks not 8-12 right? k is right a month will fly by!

it couldn't hurt to ask. we brought aspen home from rescue the day he was neutered! oh and remember good things come to those who wait. i know that is tuff at 13 but maybe you have to wait because "your" perfect dog is not there yet. do you believe everything happens for a reason?

the great thing about this board is that everyone is entitled to their opinion. the not so great thing about this board is that everything is typed and i think therefore the real meaning or intention is not always interpreted correctly. if i came off as insulting then i apologize [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_104iv.gif[/img]. it is not my intent to hurt anyone's feelings. i do not apologize, however, for my opinion. i have no ill will toward anyone and i enjoy hearing different takes on things. i am not so closed minded to expect that everyone believes as i do either, but i do expect the same privilege to post my own opinions. that being said i think it is fair to say we can agree to disagree -- amicably! subjects like this tend to get everyone fired up -- me included. now let me try to address some of the questions that have been thrown my way . . . good lord where to start haha 1) horsefeathers first -- no particular reason except that you were the first post i found with a comment directed at my post (however subtle that direction was). [quote]I think when some who are going on about "reacting on human emotion" aren't realizing is that ALL we had to go on was the story posted.[/quote] this *some* is me as noted in a later post. here is what i was trying to say with the human emotion comments . . . what is the first thing that most people say/think when they hear about a dog bite/attack incident? <gasp> <gasp> oh my gosh that poor person and sometimes some people are quick to say kill the dog! when i hear about a dog bite incident i no longer experience the shock of it all and i try to take the details of the story (yes the media skews things) and run at it from the dog's pov. so even with the first very skewed version of this story when you approach it from the pit's perspective you can surmise that the pit wanted the small dog right? ok so my point was that after we get past the initial shock and gasps (human emotion) of the news -- then we can get down to the nitty gritty of what might have triggered the dog to act in such a way. i hope that makes sense -- i was not trying to insult anyone, rather provide another way to look at things. [quote]I'm never going to believe that it's not a vicious attack unless someone dies or is horribly maimed.[/quote] this is your opinion and apparently that of many others and i totally respect that! 2) dog paddle cairn6 debbie [quote]Do you generally take precautions and cary a big stick when you walk your dog?[/quote] honestly i do not carry a stick but i do carry treats and an extra leash in case of an emergency. i also keep an eye out for potential problems. the treats to throw at a dog to distract and the leash if i need to get hold of a fighter/biter or even to leash a loose dog until we can find owners or make other arrangements -- yes a dog lasso of sorts hahah. i was not saying you have to go out in full armor -- just take a few extra precautions. hopefully the majority of us will never need it -- but it is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it ;) i was trying to offer up a few suggestions of things to do to distract an approaching dog -- i did not mean to imply you should employ them all at once. i was not suggesting this was the man's fault -- merely stating that there were other options vice picking up the dog. again if you don't agree i am fine with that - i think picking up the dog is the natural primate reaction -- unfortunately dogs are a bit rusty on their primate. i hope i addressed the major points and maybe provided some clarity, sorry if i missed anyone who might have had questions. i do not intentionally try to hurt or confuse anyone. that is all i will say on this subject. *zipping my lip* [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_5_3.gif[/img] mmmm *unzipping* i will of course address future subjects hee hee

ok so i just read the "real" story as posted by k and am now super frustrated! if someone were to kick my dog they would be dam* lucky if i did not bite them myself! anyhoo yes the the dog should not have jumped up on the dude -- that is just rude but kicking? gimme a break! was she snarling? i doubt it. growling? not likely. did anything about her indicate that she was more than interested in the little dog? i bet not! so i am confused, both dogs die now? this is flippin ridiculous!