DogPaddle

Zaphod has just demonstrated a true sense of irony - I just finished my above post and Zaphod watered Pik's backpack - first time he's ever cocked his leg too. :roll:

OK, anyone in the Fargo, Texas area?

That Evolution food that you provided a link too: I wasn't very impressed with their kibble - starts whith whole grain wheat flour and then [color=red]corn gluten meal[/color], their moist food seems a bit better. Maybe its my own perception but my boys go giddy for protein - meat, cheese, pb and egg. They are also pretty fond of celery but overall its the protein they seem to go for paticularly meat and cheese. So I tend to think they should have at least some meat in their diet, certainly it would be ok to reduce the amount of meat if it was properly supplemented with Vegtable Protein but you would have to do a lot of research - dogs cannot absorb some VP and you want to make sure everything is balanced. I would suggest RAW/BARF to most people who feel the can handle it but I would especially advocate it if you want to do a more veg based diet because I doubt dog food companies do the nec. research to do it right - it would be a lot of research for you though. BTW - I also advocate lots of research for people going Vegan, LactoVegatarian, LactoOvoVegatarien or LactoOvoPescoVegatarion because many people who go veggie just go - I think I'll be a Vegatarien today and figure they'll be fine if they just eat a soy dog or two. There is way more to it than than and you need to know what your up to. Once you learn it though its not much harder to be Veg than to be an Omnivour and [color=blue]probably healthier but only if you do it right.[/color] Many people who claim to be Vegatarians can more rightly be described as Pasta and Cheese atarians with a side of salad :roll:

Excellent advice Mei-Mei! stressedwayout - The only thing I can add to what Mei-Mei said is, I know its stressful and weird for your dog to being doing this but try to relax, its likely nothing you did and probably your dog is not doing it just to spite you (although quite late in our housetraining process I'm pretty sure Zaphod messed in the house for just that reason - he can be very stubborn) so its likely you'll be able to find the cause/solution soon. Let us know how the Nature's Miracle or similar pet smell remover works and what your vet thinks, ok?

Well probably you would have to give us more info first.

[quote]good job you weren't too tired to help him out. [/quote] :lol: Yes - what a fine situation we would have found ourselves in if I really did need rescuing. :lol: I do hope he develops a water addiction, its my favourite place to be all summer, it be nice to have company.

Oh yeah, also feel free to post, we appreciate your contributions.

[size=7][color=red][b]20 Guests!?![/b][/color][/size] Wow, well welcome to you all, feel free to sign up.

We took the boys to the beach last weekend. Kavik has never been a swimmer, wading ok, bouyant - no. Zaphod has been to the beach 2x now and seems ok with swimming his only hesitancy seems to come from the fact that Kavik won't swim which makes Zaphod think there must be something wrong with it and . . . waves. Waves really worry Zaphod, we have been swimming in Lake Erie and the waves are moderately formidable for a new swimmer. Zaphod caught a large one and started staying close to shore - probably best as he is not a strong swimmer - yet. We had Zaphod on a long line (as he is not completely trustworthy yet) and Pik had him in near the shore so I went out for a good swim and Zaphod starts pulling hard on the leash so I told Pik to let him swim out. HE DID! Much farther then he swam before, when he got to me he was puffing a bit and still freaked by the waves (eyes were a bit buggy.) But he made it, I gave him a lift back in. I was so proud of him, not sure why he was so intent to make it out to me, maybe he thought I needed rescuing, not that he could have helped if I did, but it was lovely none the less. :D

Slim - I certainly agree with your post but I was wondering about that independent thing - Kavik must be the suckiest velco dog I've ever lived with, maybe he's just an abnormal BC. They can try your patience though can't they.

Yuca, Glucosamine and Chondroitine are the way to go. If you are pressed, don't have the above or occaisionally need some extra pain killing you can use uncoated ASA, any brand, just no acetaminophen (Tylonol) or ibuprofen (Advil) try to avoid Anacin aspirin as I think it has caffine in it. Consult a vet re kidney problems - mine seemed to have no problem but never hurts to check and keep your vet appraised of your pain management/health management plans.

:klacz: Yeah Nostalgia!

Both Kavik and Zaphod have been itching and shaking their heads since we came back from the beach last week - crud. Which flea treatment was it that had a poor record with BCs (not Hartz - it has a bad record with all breeds.)

Please see: [url]http://www.bcrescue.org/book/index.html[/url] [url]http://www.bcrescue.org/book/bordercollie.html[/url] My personal take on BCs: They are alright with kids but cannot be rough housed or wrestled with as they are a small-midsized breed 30-45 lbs, mine is only 28lbs. They have the energy to run and play with kids but tend to nip at running kids, cats, dogs, people and sometimes cars. It is certainly possible to work with this but is usually better to train the kids not to overstimulate the dog and to let them know that this may happen. Herding behaviour is instinctual and with lots of training can sometimes be repressed but often this is not accomplished - BCs just herd :niewiem: As for your cat, when the BC herds it, the dog will be "playing/working" and if properly socialized will have no actual aggression towards the cat but the cat may not see it that way. It is unlikely that the dog will hurt/injure the cat while herding it because a BC herds mostly by intimidation and a bit of heel nipping for effect. If you get a BC socialize it alot amongst other dogs, strange people, kids etc. Obedience classes are very important - not because BCs are hard to train but because the need stimulation, a job to do and socialization. Excercise - [color=red]"I tired dog is a good dog."[/color] Kavik goes for a 15 - 20min Kong/fetch session both before and after work - he runs hard that entire time. If I sit at the PC or watch tv I constantly am tossing something for him to fetch. We go on an outing usually once a week - to the beach, hiking etc - usually this involves a couple hours of moderate to hard excercise (Kavik getting way more than me of course :lol: ) We also go for a walk around the block (15min to 45min) in the evening which is good excercise and socialization. Kavik also spends 45min to 3 hours a day [i]sparring and/or stalking[/i] with Zaphod (my other dog) or tearing around after the cats and this has been a great relief to me because I have to excercise him less, Zaphod loves it, the cats are ambivilent and give him a good swat (clawed) when they are not in the mood. Mental stimulation - We spend 15 min/day either training or reviewing past commands/tricks. Often if Kavik is distressed this will calm him down. We have treat/puzzle balls and kongs for him to play with. 1-2 times a week set him a problem to solve like putting his tennis ball in an overturned, heavy laundry basket and letting him work out how to get it out. Some of the games we play are mentally stimulating - simple things like "Where is Kipp?" Border Collie Mental Welfare: BCs are soft dogs in that harsh discipline is not only not nec. but often detrimental. Kavik may be more sensitive than your average BC but my experience is that he is very sensitive to my moods and if I am angry or anxiouse or depressed it causes him anxiety. BC can become easily obsessed. BC have tendency to be a little high strung. Grooming and Care - Depending on coat type will need brushing 1-3 times a week. Will need a high quality dog food with good fat and protien levels because they tend to be very active but sometimes tend not to eat that much. BCs are generally healthy although you can check BC Rescue for standerd/breed specific ailments. What made you decide you wanted a BC? Are you close enough to BC Rescue to be able to adopt from them?

How long will you have him? If it is just a short time: I would advise the neighbours, take him out for a long play just before going out and crate him with toys and tv or radio . . . and be as quick as I could. If it is longer: I would work on crate training and properly socializing him with Rosie. I feel for you. I babysat our neighbours Jack for the weekend once, I love him dearly but he wore me right out - and I have a BC :-? I don't think I'm the sort of person who could handle a Jack full time if their all like my neighbours dog. Although they are also of the opinion you don't need to excercise small dogs. They also have no idea how to housetrain or crate train so perhaps its just their Jack that causes me to have white hairs. Best of Luck Marion

Thanks Courtnek - that is a perfect example of what I was trying to say (rather unsuccusfully) here: [quote]Some animals will not breed together if social standing in the group varies to greatly as well and sometimes the offspring of a particular member of the group can never progress in pack hierarchy while the parent is alive.[/quote] Good point on why domesticated dogs would be more prone to inbreeding than wild dogs too.

From my understanding - sifted from college (not uni so take it for what its worth) Ed in wildlife and ecosystem management: The majority of mammals will inbreed if issues of dominance allow and opportunity arises. BUT the social structure of most mammals inhibits this by such things like Cassie was mentioning. The social structure acts as the inbreeding safety net by removing young males from the pack or similar behaviours that make it unlikely that two closely related family members would remain in the same group or have the opportunity to breed. Some animals will not breed together if social standing in the group varies to greatly as well and sometimes the offspring of a particular member of the group can never progress in pack hierarchy while the parent is alive. There are a lot of complex social and behavioural developments that protect against inbreeding so that when it happens occasionally it is a) by some stroke of luck not a big deal or b) more commonly creates a genetic difference that leads to the animal being culled, either by survival of the fittest or by more behavioural developments in the pack. The other possible deterrent for inbreeding may be pheromones

Cassie and Hazel - That's encouraging. It could very well be something like that, I'm glad to hear there are breeds that just get spots later in life or who's spots grow as they get older - Who knows what other breed is in him aside from Lab - I have had people guess: BC GSD Chow APBT/SBT Huskey and even Shiba Inu :lol:

Welcome back Courtnek!

Still havn't gotten info from mom on whether Abbey's crystals were from high or low ph but from what your saying Allicat it sounds like they were from too low ph.

I can see it - Zaphod's looks similar but it was not there a month ago so it can't be a [i]birth[/i]mark. Probably something he ate . . . he is very good at "dropit" but only because he attempts to eat everything.

Kavik goes insane for . . . celery chunks :o , Zaphod likes them too but he likes anything. Celery and other veg would be OK.

Well it sounds like it will be nothing so I will try not to worry or to be to embarrassed when I take him to the vet - made and appointment this morning :oops: Better safe than sorry though so we'll still go.

Thanks all! Yes they are following up, she has 3 new doctors :lol: , I suppose it will be ok but I would have felt better if they found out why she had (mild) coronary failure before they sent her home - they say her heart is perfectly fine . . . so why is she having chest pain?

Zaphod is a 10/11 month old mix breed/mutt, mostly Lab. He has recently developed a black or very dark blue spot on his toungue. I know some dog breeds can have blue/black tongues. I know BC pigmentation on their body can occur in spots and change approaching maturity. But its just one very dark spot on an other wise pink tongue. Anyone heard of this?