DogPaddle

Lina I presume your refering to propac large breed adult dog food. Here are the ingredients: Chicken Meal, [color=blue]Ground Yellow Corn[/color], [color=darkblue]Rice Flour, Brewers Rice[/color], Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), [color=blue]Dried Beet Pulp[/color], Natural [color=darkblue]Flavoring[/color], Flaxseed, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Yeast Culture, [color=red]Salt[/color], Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine Hydroxyanalogue, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, D-activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Zinc Proteinate, Manganous Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Proteinate. There are some questionable ingredients in here and SALT. It's certainly not the best food out there but at the very least it starts with meat and has no byproduct.

Somewhat less fru-fru. Is this a grey poodle or a white poodle or has someone died it - I have never seen a poodle with more than one shade in its coat.

Aw darn HF beat me to it.

Oooh Oooh I maybe can answer this one. The froo-froo cut used to be less extreme and left thicker clumps of fur around the joints, head, ears and chest to keep the dog warm when it did water retrieving in cold weather. Since then it has become more stylistic and extreme. Don't let the froo-froo fool you - Standerd Poodles are excellent sport/hunting/gaurding/protection dogs!

Scotty_lvr - I really like Solid Gold - Holistic Blends. The indgredients are really high quality. Will you be adding the recommended meet to the kibble or does your pup need to drop a few pounds?

I have a great deal of respect for everyone for continuing this debate, I think its good to have things explained, and I'm sure you all realize I, as do those on the other side of the debate, feel strongly about this topic. As excellent stability can and is obtained through breeding for temperment gameness is not required for stability. Game dogs may be stable around people but there are other ways. And BTW gameness or a drive to fight with other dogs is a problem in our society, the majority of dog owners will not want a "game" dog around their dogs, a majority of dog owners would be fit to kill you and your "game" dog if the dogs instincts got away from it and you and their dog was harmed because dogs have value too and are loved members of peoples famalies. [quote]no other form of exertion will push the dog to its limits and then urge it to continue. Through pain, blood-loss, domplete domination, and exhaustion[/quote] I would never put a loved family companion (human or otherwise) through this just to prove they could, when ostensibly they would never need to do it as there is NO NEED for dog fighting - it is a human vice, some find it ENTERTAINING to see devoted animals rip the living s*** out of each other. I think we need to address that the desire to continue to provide this sort of [i]entertainment[/i] and have a shot, albeit a long shot, at the money involved contribute heavily to the continuation of breeding for gameness.

Thyroid med: I don't know how it works for dogs but I would suspect it is the same as it is for people. If this is the case - the dog should not be taken off it unless a very comparable and equally usable source of thyroxin can be obtained and the switch should be made gradually under trained supervision. My brother has hypothyroidism and must take the exact same amount of thyroxin, in the same half hour period, everyday, for the rest of his life. If his dosage changes, or he lets his prescription run out and doesn't take it for a few days (missing a single day now and then or changing the time now and then is not a huge deal but if done regularly also messes up his system) - it takes a month for his levels to sort themselves out again. Very powerful chemical which we are all very sensitive too.

Excellent suggestions Alicat, I never considered the problem with smaller breeds. Good luck Kaimali, let us know how it goes.

[quote]we'll never know the real extent of what happened to her, but we know for sure her first few months were rough.[/quote] Too bad you can't find out exactly what happened, it would probably be a little easier to address her issues that way. Good for you for keeping at it.

Does she get excited when you get her pack or bag? Kavik, my BC, can't carry much but he is always terribly excited when we bring out is pack, he's so pround of himself!

Good to hear your making progress with Roxy, you must be putting lots of work into it. :bigok: I must have missed some of Roxies history. I just have a question based on what I read in this thread: [quote]roxy is gamebred. the man we bought her from has around 5 dogs, obviously used for fighting in his yard, [color=darkblue]well taken care of might i add[/color][/quote] [quote]the only reason i continue to work with her is because her instabilities are a [color=indigo]result of neglect and abuse as a puppy[/color], rather than poor temperment as a result of poor breeding. [/quote] Did you take Roxy right home from the breeders or has she lived somewhere else at any point?

So far I think we are at: Miniture Poodle 2 Dachsund 1 Pekingnese 2 Golden Retriever 1 Yorkshire Terrier 1 Rottweiler 9 Am Staff 2 GSD 6 Springer Spaniel 1 Husky mix 1 Collie 1 PomX 1 LabX 2

[quote]Dog bites that involve broken skin/bleeding. 8 Rottweilers, 2 American Staffordshire terriers, 6 German Shepherds. [/quote] Oh Cassie, did those all happen to you are were you a witness in some - I hope so, that's a lot of bites. So, if I'm right, that puts us at: Miniture Poodle 2 Dachsund 1 Pekingnese 1 Golden Retriever 1 Yorkshire Terrier 1 Rottweiler 8 Am Staff 2 GSD 6 For first hand experience or direct eye witnessed bites that drew blood.

Let your son now how important it would be for him to have at least 15 minutes of quiet time with you and Laurel. It took Laurel a bit of time to adjust to being with you right (although her reaction was not this extreme) she managed that, with work she will probably be fine with your son.

Definately Courtnek. I think this would drop the number of bites drastically. Education would help alot as would, nuetering, stopping the chained life for dogs, and stiffer penalties for animal abuse. My own experience with the miniture poodle was due to lack of knowledge, I was 7 or 8 and I often played with the dog in the owners precense but I came by one day and the dog was tethered to do its business, I approached on its property without the alpha there (its owner) and the dog did its job, [b]I just didn't understand its body language[/b] because I thought of it as "just a little dog."

I think overall we are agreeing with each other here Mydogroxy. I understand that not all dogs that are gamebred are game nor are they all tested for gameness, however, if you a specifically breeding game dogs or looking for a dog from game lines (or a gamebred dog) than the goal (although not the gaurenteed result) is to have a dog that is game or has a game temperment (whether you make use of this or test for it or not.) I understand that breeders who breed for gameness [b]ALSO[/b] breed for temperment. And [i]this[/i] is the reason for the dogs stability (the breeding for temperment part not the breeding for gameness part as they are two seperate traits - and I am fully aware that they are in no way mutually exclusive.) I respect that you oppose fighting and that you clearly state: [quote]i did want a gamebred dog[/quote] without linking it to stability. As I understand it you wanted a gamebred dog that IS ALSO stable. I also respect that you evaluate yourself: [quote]i do realize that being for gameness and against fighting is a contradiction, and i do struggle with it.[/quote] So many people are quick to rationalize their behaviour and that is in no way what you have done. I just wish all these people who argue for fighting would stop throwing the stability issue into things - its just not related or relevent - Most Schutzhund trained dogs are wonderfully stable but that does not meen that everyone should have - in fact very few people should have one and they server an important role in society whith police forces.

So far: Miniture Poode 1 Dachsund 1 Pekeignese 1 Golden Retriever 1 There was another Dachshund bite but it was a "snapped at" not a bite drawing blood.

I have to remember not to read these before bed - I don't sleep well afterwards. Did you see the bit about "Coming Soon, Large Breeds"? Oh yeah HD, arthritic dogs living in very cramped cages! :evil:

There was a site that advertised "miniture australian shepherds" and openly admitted (after someone called them on it) that they mixed them with shelties to get the size down but then went on to say that they were truley australian shepherds. :roll: Not that they weren't cute dogs but how dumb do they think we are?

Well, its definately good to hear they know what it is and have a planned course of treatment. Hope it turns out well. Welcom BTW.

Shellies wrote: [quote]Why is it Pit Bulls and Akitas have a much higher incidence of attacks then say a Labrador? [/quote] I think this is a matter of perception, sensationalization and press coverage. You don't hear as much about other breed bites because it is not popular or interesting news. The CDC study involving FATAL dog attacks indicates that, yes, pit bull type dogs (which is a very genralized term and may or may not artificially raise stats) are responsible for more fatal attacks. However, Akitas do not rank very high at all in this study. Additionally this study measures FATAL attacks only and is not corrected for relative population of dogs. So attacks by some breeds may be more deadly but occur more often and the prevelance of pit bulls more artificially inflate the statistics. Additionally other good studies indicate that breed of dog is less a factor in biting incidents than environment and situation. In these studies it is determined that the worst risk of bites is from unnuetered males, abused dog and highest of all - chained dogs. This is not to say that Akitas are easy, safe, "entry-level" dogs. Just that they are not as bad as they are being made out to be and/or their handlers in general are handling the breed well. [url]http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf[/url] What do people say to starting a little survey of our own, and lets try to be as honest as possible so we can see what turns up? My suggested parameters: Dog bites that involve broken skin/bleeding. Unprovoked attacks. First hand experience or eye witness only. So unless anyone has any other parameters or an objection . . . I'll start Miniture Poodle 1

Is she overweight? Some overwieght dogs can suffer from tension urination or stress urination or something like that - it has to do with pressure on the bladder or something. If this is the cause and had only begun recently there is little to worry about - the symptom clears in most dogs as soon as they drop the weight. Many bladder/urinary infections can be taken care of with meds - don't worry yet. We'll send our best wishes for you.

Information never hurts, I'll keep an eye on him and check for what are the normal symptoms for hyperthyroidism in dogs. (There is no way Kavik has hypothyroidism, my brother has that and before meds put on a lot of weight and slept all the time.)

No bad smell. He had been scratching but that was after my brother washed him with people shampoo, ever since I used the doggy oatmeal shampoo he seems to be fine but its only been a day, he is also shinier. Is a thin coat a sign of an underactive or overactive thyroid - Kavik is "twirpy" but very active.

They are very rare around here, there are only two Bernese rescues in the whole country (that I could find) and they rarely have dogs for adoption - which is good. Thankfully the millers and bybreeders have not got their hands on this breed yet. There was one who was in the other training class at our obedience school - I never realized they were so big - the feet where unbelievable. Tell us more.