Hobbit

Yep.....meant [b]WITHOUT[/b]. Could you tell my bloodpressure was getting up, wasn't thinking straight!! :D

:lol: :lol:

.....and lastly (I think) --- going without food, causes stress. Stress can cause a number of secondary illnesses and even death. Going with[b]out[/b] (edited to reflect "without") food causes a drop in blood sugar in any breed (including humans), causes weakness, irratibility, light headedness, constriction of bloodvessels (headache), memory loss, etc... An animal is not at their potential unless their nutritional needs are met.

....and further more: having a strong prey drive to catch rats has absolutely NOTHING to do with whatsoever if they've been fed or not. Geez, will the ignorance ever stop? That is an old, a VERY old, wives tale. Like putting a nickel in the ear of a horse that isn't broke. By putting the nickel in his ear, he won't buck. Totally unfounded. :roll:

Wouldn't work unless they were hungry? That is the biggest load of crap! Working instinct is just that....instinct that comes from being selectively and well bred for a certain task. Their genetics is the drive that makes them a good "ratter", NOT whether or not they were fed that day. That is just ridiculous! Some people are just hopelessly STUPID. Our Kelpies are fed EVERYDAY, regardless of the weather or what we've got planned. They work because of their genetics, NOT because they were fed or weren't fed. :roll: Stupid people shouldn't breed!

Miko --- there seems to be some differences in opinions about the neutering of a male dog. First --- all that neutering does is ensure that he can not impregnate a female. It does not, however; ensure that he will lose the "glint" from his eye. Mounting, fighting, posturing are all signs of a dominance behaviour --- found in BOTH sexes. Many neutered males do not lose this attitude, many do. I've seen male dogs (first hand and I have one) that still will go thru EVERY motion with a female dog. He will ejaculate and hang up. He just is sterile. He will mark (NOT as bad, because of training) when a female is in heat. He postures, he is sure that he is the alpha dog, he is cocky as any in-tact male and a royal pain in the butt sometimes. He is JUST like an in-tact male, without testicles. NOT every male is like this, some are, some aren't (most aren't). My in-tact male, woke up one day (literally) and started marking. I caught him in the act and really scolded him hard. He'll start to mark and look right at me. All I have to do is point at him and he stops. After that episode, he hasn't marked since. By all means, neuter your male and spay your female. They both will be the SAME dogs, attitude wise --- maybe better --- and I'll bet he'll stop marking his territory (after you scrub everything clean) and there will be no unwanted puppies. And.....life will be enjoyable. :wink:

Goo, when Guy was recovering he didn't use the injured leg for about 5 months. He didn't center, but when he would get tired his pasturn would lax. As he became stronger, this stopped. We made sure that he didn't become tired (didn't want him to strain any ligaments or tendons). Of course now, he has recovered and is using the other leg.

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']I, personally, wouldn't feed that to my pet alligator. Blech! :-?[/quote] Is this the same alligator that you set free at the lake? :lol: :lol:

For Copyright Law view this site: [url]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/[/url]

[quote name='Poofy']Well in an international show, because of the way the dogs are to be judged, it would be useless trying to get political. You are NOT in competition with any one...only the standard.[/quote] I do not foresee showing my "Working" Kelpies in conformation classes or any other classes. If their conformation was lacking then they could not withstand the hard work of herding. This is from the Working Kelpie Council (in Australia): [b]INTRODUCTION[/b] Historically, as soon as any new Breed is evolved its acceptance as such creates an association between the work it has been bred to perform and a certain overall appearance. Sooner or later a written standard or description is drawn up to present a word picture of a mythical super animal towards which the breeder strives to produce. Taken overall, certain disciplines in selection and rejection are set down which are, or should be, designed for the betterment of the breed in question. [b]WRITTEN DESCRIPTIONS[/b] The first standard for the Kelpie was drawn up just after the turn of the century setting down conformation requirements, which remain valid today. Over the years the original standard has been subject to amendment and addition by the Canine bodies responsible for the conduct of Dog Shows. Most of alterations have related to superficial qualities such as coat colour, texture, length etc. etc. The different appearance of Show Kelpies today has been caused, in my opinion, mainly by a lack correct interpretation of structural requirements and a practical knowledge of stock work and pastoral conditions The production of a written description of breed type requirements for working Kelpies stems from the need to place prime importance on the dog's ability to perform efficiently and to remove the emphasis on the unrelated and unsuitable qualities set down in the standard adopted by the Australian National Kennel Control and which is used as a guide by breeders of Show Kelpies. The drawing up of guidelines to describe desirable working Kelpie conformation and breed characteristics is not designed to encourage selection of dogs which comply to a written interpretation to the exclusion of natural working ability which must always remain the most important aspect of consideration by genuine breeders of working Kelpies. It must be stressed that the purpose behind this work is to generate interest in the production of dogs which are excellent workers, possess sound conformation and identifiable breed type, and not to suggest that any changes should be made unless the dog is "off type" and unable to perform as efficiently as one would expect. Quite a number of factors, which cannot be adequately covered in a guide of this nature, are responsible for the efficiency or lack of it, and they are in many ways interacting. One can get the near perfectly made dog which has not got the stamina to perform his work as efficiently or as quickly as his conformation suggests. If, for instance, his heart is not sufficiently strong in its action to meet the demands of extended periods of exertion, or if there is restriction in the arteries, he will not be able to make the best of his inherited good "type". If the dog's diet is inadequate, or he is suffering from the effects of internal parasites, or is not in reasonable hard muscular condition, his performance will also be affected. For ultimate results the dog needs to possess a strongly inherited desire to work and basically sound conformation coupled with general good health and recognisable Kelpie breed type. Breed type and conformation should not be confused or lumped together. It is easy to place too much importance on "type"; the word type in this case being used to describe general appearance. So you get an owner saying "Old so and so is not a good type but worth all the others put together". "Old so and so" may well be superior because his conformation or skeleton and natural working ability are closer to the ideal. The fact that his ears are half up, or he has a white streak on his face, white feet or that his coat is scraggy and so on, has nothing to do with his conformation. Such things are on the surface and whilst they may not please the eye they do not affect ability Conformation is the way the frame is proportioned and put together; what covers it will not affect efficiency to any real extent. No dog is truly perfect and no one fault could be exampled as the cause of inefficiency. A bad shoulder is not seen on an otherwise perfect dog; the fact that the shoulder is wrong will affect the other parts to varying degree. The ability to move silently smoothly and without obvious effort is governed by conformation. The effects of the noise (and vibrations) caused by the pounding of a heavy running dog will not be noticed on quiet sheep well accustomed to men, dogs and noise. It is on the wild "western" sheep that this fault will be noticed. Similarly bad-footed dogs will not be handicapped working on soft improved areas where distance is strictly limited; it is on the hard dry holdings that this defect will quickly become obvious. It is better from a Breed point of view that selection is made for qualities which suit the hardest conditions irrespective of what sort of environment the dogs are being used under. Selection for the best working qualities and a thorough understanding of proper conformation will contribute more to the future of the Breed than will ever be made by a selection for superficial things like size of ears, coat quality, colour and so on. For the very best of reasons, breeders of working dogs should concern themselves with the basic structural requirements fixed, over generations, by the physical demands of his work. If a breeder deviates more than slightly from these requirements he may find himself producing dogs which are physically unsuitable the job for which he bred them. Once established as a distinct breed the animals automatically acquire 'breed type' and the drawing up of a set of guidelines to cover the overall appearance and characteristics is in many ways desirable, provided they are used as a guide secondary to the Kelpies' inherited ability to efficiently work stock.

[quote name='Prairie_Gurl'] My stinkin newspaper up here only talks about crappy farmer sh*t. Very boring, and nothing of importance to me. *sigh*[/quote] Hey....don't bad mouth the farmer with a mouth full of food.....[size=1]unless you want to start growing your own food. [/size] :wink:

I very well remember the thread about this. Probably best it isn't brought back up! :wink:

Well Poof, I've never seen that. What I've seen, is mostly who knows who, who's sleeping the who, and who owes who --- is who wins. I took my rose colored glasses off a long time ago while showing horses. :wink:

Hybrid is the offspring of two animals of different species or varieties. Like breeding a mare to a jack; the resulting offspring is a mule (hybrid).

Oh, Yeeeesss, DO tell! :P Yeah, I can really see Hobbit at a show. He'd faint. Several of the others --- with their broken, missing and chipped teeth, split, scared and parts missing from their ears. OH YEAH....they're attractive. :wink:

Oh yeah, I'm going after the "World Beauty Champion" title!! :wink: :lol:

[quote name='daisykatep']daisymom, I asked the dog owner about the homeopathic treatment that was given to her dog with the bowel problems, she said the dog was put on arsenic alb until the trouble had cleared up and then put on a special diet with no red meat for about 2 months and then gradually back to her normal diet and she's okay now. Apparently it was colitis. Her own vet just kept on giving her anti inflamitory injections with no proper examination, the homeopathic vet was more thorough going into her general health and diet etc. She now goes to the homeopathic vet every time the dog needs any treatment for any ailment and is very pleased with the way he cures her dogs. Also with homeopathic medicine there are no side effects and it is completely safe. Anyway enough of me droning on :roll: I'm really pleased Daisy is on the mend :beerchug: Hopefully it won't return :D[/quote] Arsenic is a heavy metal, poison and usually used for the removal of heart worms. It makes the animal very, very sick. Why was Arsenic used? That is not a biologic, nor considered a homeopathic. Hum...can you find out why Arsenic was used?

[quote name='Poofy']In an FCI show a dog is not judged against another dog. They are judged against the written standard. Multiple dogs can recieve a V1 rating, in the same class and become champions. The judges at these shows are often familiar with ALL types of dogs not found in the US. In fact, each judge you show to, MUST be from a different country...there for its possible, very possible, to find a judge that is familiar with your breed. You need only 3 V1 ratings, and there are usually at least 3 shows in a two day weekend. The judges give written critiques which is nice, and let you know exactly what they find nice and faulted about your dog.[/quote] Still [b]UNABLE[/b] to find a FCI show in Texas.

:wink:

[quote name='Poofy'] Not long ago a good "working dog" was more valuable then a horse [/quote] This is still true in some geographical areas. A good working dog can start at $3000.00.....goes up from there.

[quote name='Poofy']Hobbit: They do have FCI shows all over the US. CA, TX, FL, and many more states. I am willing to bet you could go to an FCI show at some time or another with your dogs.[/quote] I am looking at several show schedules....and none are listed for Texas. I am not going to California or Florida (as there is no one to care for the stock).

[quote name='RR'][quote] [color=red]You are so blinded by "conformation only" that you can't see the other side. [/color][/quote] [color=green][b]Forget it. This will go on forever. Essentially we're saying the same thing here. Except my words are being twisted about and from that you are drawing your own false conclusions on my opinions. If being blinded by conformation is a bad thing-------then GUILTY as charged LOL. If you don't have conformation to start-------- meaning STRUCTURE/FORM (not a dog show, not a handling class, not a judge picking the "prettiest" dog, not the best herder or hunter) you have nothing - NO lasting WORKING ability!!! A dogs natural instincts mean nothing if his body can't hold up! As with any PET who is going to be active well into old age, structure is extremely important. It is not the only thing, and I never said it was, there are many things that need to be considered in a good breeding program. *FYI* I am a "show person" as you call it, and would never compromise my breeding program just to "produce a champion" "show" dog. There are no worthless breeds, only worthless breeders. [/b][/color] Poofy wrote:[quote]I have seen dogs that can work, that look nothing like the breed they are supposed to be...and dogs that are picture book perfect, but could not find their way out of a wet paper bag...there is a *balance* between both worlds.[/quote] [b][color=green]I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!! [/color][/b]:D[/quote] RR --- I keep agreeing with you.....I guess you are not understanding that. And I am glad that you are a show person and wouldn't compromise your breeding program. You are one of a very few and should be commended.

Poofy --- since not many judges or even the common person has even heard of an Australian Kelpie --- it would be difficult, if not impossible to place in a show. The first thing most people ask, "Is that a German Shepherd, Doberman or Rott?"

When you leave Australia, could you bring a couple or three Kelpie pups with you, for me?? :P

FCI -- World Canine Organization, correct? The closest place to me is Mexico for show. Show schedules 1. Argentina 2. Brazil 3. Chile 4. Colombia 5. Costa Rica 6. Cuba 7. Ecuador 8. El Salvador 9. Guatemala 10. Honduras 11. Mexico 12. Nicaragua 13. Panama 14. Paraguay 15. Peru 16. Puerto Rico 17. Uruguay 18. Venezuela April 2003 --- UKC shows Shows that also have obedience trials are indicated by an *. See the UKC Obedience Trials section for additional events. 4-6 Marshall, MI K9 Fanciers of Michigan. Calhoun County Fairgrounds. Maude Tank, 8734 Marsh Rd., Plainwell, MI 49080 4-6 Marshall, MI UKC Michigan Classic, sponsored by K9 Fanciers of Michigan, Mid West Weight Pullers and North American Jack Russell Terrier Assn. See separate conformation, obedience and weight-pulling listings. Calhoun County Fairgrounds. 4-6 Vancouver, WA American Eskimo Dog Assn. of Oregon. Marshall Community Ctr., 1009 E. McLoughlin Blvd. Candi Chamberlain, 4993 Wagon Trail Ct. S.E., Salem, OR 97301 12-13 Claremont, CA California American Eskimo Assn. Inc. Barbara Saracino, 2130 Doreen Ln., San Marcos CA 92069 12-13 Ann Arbor, MI Michigan Toy Fox Terrier Assn. Arboroads Farm, 3660 S. Maple. Julie Slauterbeck, 22481 Bohn Rd., Belleville, MI 48111 12-13 Lansing, MI Foundation Kai Club of America. Obedience Training Club of Greater Lansing, 2227 Spikes Ln. Marian Campbell, P.O. Box 206, Sunfield. MI 48890 12-13 Decatur, TX North Texas American Pit Bull Terrier Club. Wise County Sheriff's Posse Ground, 3101 S. FM 51. Patti Murley, 2200 Lake Crest Ln., Denton TX 76208-2088 19-20 Tonganoxie, KS Heartland Toy Fox Terrier Assn. Leavenworth County Fairgrounds. Dorothy West, 14546 46th St., Perry, KS 66073 19-20 Minneapolis, MN Northern Lights American Eskimo Dog Assn. Twin City Obedience Training Ctr., 2101 Broadway N.E. Sharon Schroeder, 4356 Hwy. 95 N.W., Cambridge, MN 55008 19-20 Sparks, NV Silver State American Pit Bull Terrier Club. Cottonwood Park, 777 Spice Island Dr. Janice Snyder, 8151 Helens Way, Fallon, NV 89406 26-27 Loveland, CO St. Vrain Dog Club Inc. Larimer County Fairgrounds, 700 S. Railroad Ave. Jo Schon, 30123 WCR 398, Keenesburg, CO 80643 26-27 Somers, CT Twin Corgi Club of America. Pleasant View Ctr., 452 South Rd. Lindsay Heaslip, P.O. Box 91, Ledyard, CT 06339 26-27 Watkinsville, GA Southeastern American Eskimo Dog Assn. Heritage Park. Patrea Pabst, 2966 Hartwell Hwy., Dewy Rose, GA 30634 26-27 Indianapolis, IN Indiana American Eskimo Dog Club. Marion County Fairgrounds, 7300 E. Troy Ave. Vicki Maynard, 10420 S. 375 E., Elizabethtown, IN 47232 26-27 Indianapolis, IN National American Eskimo Dog Assn. American Eskimo Dog Spring Rotating Show. Marion County Fairgrounds, 7300 E. Troy Ave., 4H Horticulture Bldg. Ann Baughn, Rt. 1, Box 243-0, New Canton, VA 23123 26-27 Bel Air, MD Old Line State United DC. Heavenly Waters Equestrian Ctr., 608 N. Tollgate Rd. Gina Plott, 3211 Ascot Ln., Fallston, MD 21047 26-27 Christiansburg, VA North American Jack Russell Terrier Assn. Christiansburg Parks & Recreation Ctr. Judy Slater, 113 Port Victoria Way, Woodstock, GA 30189 [color=red][b]Hum, not one Kelpie show........ [/b][/color]