Bensam

Received an email this am. from the South Australian Gov. Offices with a copy of a press release by their Premier, Mr Rann. Their legislation had the same loop hole as Victoria and they are moving to amend this to cover the prohibitation of using dogs and cats for food under any circumstances. Good news. So far the score is...................................... Victoria----Changing the law.............South Aust----Changing the law........ West Aust. They have it covered.............Tasmania---Still have the loophole, so am working on them..........N.S.W. Q'land---waiting on follow-up correspondence. I'll have to learn how to put a copy of their correspondence on here, both Vic. and SA replies were very promising.

I have also been contacting the Government about this issue and received a repy from S. Christakos, Victorian Gov. It was covering the present law which does not make killing domestic pets for food illegal, there is a loophole in it. I have been trying to copy the entire letter into here, but still being PC dumb, I cant make it work. I've got copies floating all around the computer, but darned if I can get them here. Anyway, the most important sentence is as follows..................................................... "[color=red][/color]"To make this very clear, the Bracks Government will amend the law to specifically ban the consumption of cats and dogs in any circumstances"...................................................................................... [color=black][/color]So maybe they are listening some of the time, I dont suppose the fact we have an election coming up, has anything to do with it :lol: . We will just have to wait and see!!

Thank you, Deep. Just LOVED your comment on "ALL toy breed owners", but I'm polite, don't make sweeping statements, just insult where necessary!! :o

Advertisement in a US paper for Labrador Retriever X Chihuahua. Makes you wonder 'how'? :o

I am biting my tongue, said it was my last post BUT - Hobbit - you said it - the conformation must be correct - are you referring to the conformation standard as approved by the Working Kelpie Council? If so, that's the one which is the same as the show standard, so how are they built differently? And let's not quibble over an inch in height or a dropped ear. We are talking angulation, length of body, feet , boning, basic working equipment. Koolie, again I do not mean the furnishings, look beyond those and you will find the structure of the working dog and show dog are basically the same in those all important features. Most breeds had a purpose and/or job way back and many of them are still being bred with the physical characteristics needed for their particular job being kept to the fore although, admittedly, a lot have no longer the inbred instincts to work. I have not disputed this just tried to make the point that structurally they should not be so different.

OK, my last word on this subject. What I am trying to get across is that if you look at the Working Kelpie conformation standard which is on a number of sites and compare it with the Show Kelpie standard as set down by the Show Dog Assoc's, they are practically identical in wording and meaning. General Appearance, Head, Teeth, Eyes, Ears, Neck, Forequarters, Body, Hindquarters, Feet, Tail, Coat, Colour, Size, Movement. All are covered in both standards so how can you say they are built differently if both are being guided by the same standard which the Working Dog Council say this is ideal conformation for the working dog and is the standard the show dog is judged by? This is the part I don't understand.

You may have seen this site. Some Great Danes in Aussie. I see that they had imported some from England the sire being a German dog. Just wondered if there was any connection with the one you used. Anyway the site is [url]www.hildydanekennels.com.au/[/url] Thought it might be of interest if you hadn't seen it before.

OK, here I go again, sticking my Aussie neck out! On the pics. of the working vs show breeds that I have seen on the forum, I can't believe the types are so different in America. The basic conformation of the show dogs here in Australia is, under the show coat, the same as the worker. While the working instinct may be diluted, the anatomy to cope with the work they are bred for is maintained. There is NO way any Border Collie could be mistaken for a Rough Collie here. This applies to the Border Collie, Kelpie and the Lab. just three breeds mentioned. There are Labs here which are duel titled, both conformation and working. Admittedly the workers in any breed will probably have deviation from the show standard as far as, eye placement, size, ear placement, shape, cosmetic things like that, but the basic structural form to allow for the work to be done should be there. There are numerous sites for show kennels in Australia, if you look at those, past the glamour, you will see a structure capable of working. Site for BC's- [url]www.geocities.com/westurnborders/[/url] I'm not getting into any discussion re the working instinct of these dogs just trying to point out that physically there should not be a great difference. Please don't be cross, Hobbit, I know exactly what you mean, but I cant see any reason for the show dogs to be so different in type and can appreciate your point of view, as I hope you can see mine.

Hi there, Congrats. for the placing at the weekend with Ollie. Was Warren there? Hope so. it was your turn :lol: . Is Shady going to stay with you or are you just training for another owner? Sounds like she could be a great girl, so hope she is yours for 'keeps'. Waiting on the pics here too.

As you say, probably for the best, but to get so close, it's very disappointing for you. :cry: Who knows, if it is a last minute decission by the uncle you may get another call later if it doesn't work out. Then again there might even be a better one for you waiting in the future. Whatever will be, will be!! I've been waiting all morning for an email from Dogo, now I can go do some work. :)

Good luck with the meeting - it's harder to cope with these things with your dogs than with your kids, at least the kids tell you what they feel, easier than trying to read 'doggy body language'. Altho dogs are sure easier as teenagers :roll:

Just to throw a bit on confusion into the debate- of approx. 20 breeds in the Toy group in Australia, there are 5 which are/or can be blue, with a number of others which can be "any colour". When I've got an hour to spare I'll go through the book of standards and find some more. :lol:

Disgusting, at least this lot may end up having a happier life. The Vet.'s comment puzzles me - "no sign of this before Saturday" - unfortunate wording, wrongly quoted, lousy Vet, quickest case of ill treatment on record? Some explaination needed here, me thinks!!

Who said dogs weren't individuals? I think we humans are in a rut when it comes to expressing ourselves :lol:. My three all have different ways TO GO! Ben has to find some thick grass or low shrub to back right into for his poop and as we have drought conditions at the moment it can take a while. Sam does the scratchy thing and it doesn't matter where I stand when he is on lead, he will aim the shower of dirt at me, not sure if he's trying to tell me something? Pebbles does a very ladylike scratch, slow motion, first one leg.....then.....the other leg.....then......again....and... again. Great when you are in a hurry, there's no moving on till she has finished.

[quote] Definately words of wisdom, Hobbit. This subject is quickly climbing into the 'too hard' basket. I think we are all going along the same thinking road. I guess we can only keep lobbying those in power. Sometimes we can make a difference. Our Government here in Victoria appear to have listened, just have to wait for the action. Have emailed the Minister with the suggestion that the Department could let me know how the legislation change is progressing (or I'll pester the h..l out of them, threats, promises?) Some of the other States have replied and I'm keeping in touch with them. So who knows, a river starts with a raindrop!. (Drat, tried to put your last sentence in as a quote, Hobbit, but being me didn't appear to work when I looked at the preview, you know what I mean)

Rowie, that link takes you to the 'breeders kennels' which is the one our marvellous 'Burke's Backyard' is promoting. We suspect he has an interest and are trying to track down the owners, directors, etc. Will let the forum know what we find. Disgusting, isn't it?

Just a question - and before I get beheaded, no I don't think ACD'S or Kelpies should have their tails docked, but how do the naturally bob tailed working dogs compensate for having no tails? We have here in Aussie a number of racing greyhounds which for various reasons have tails which are not the full length and it doesn't seem to affect them when racing. Any theories on this. Tail docking is becoming an issue here and apart from the mutilation angle is there any evidence that shows the tail is necessary for balance etc.? I have read that some breeds were originally docked as they suffered injury to a long tail when doing working.

OK, I know I'm treading in a mine field here and I hope I can explain what I mean. I absolutely abhor the thought of anyone using pets for meat but then if you are a vegitarian the thought of using any animal is against your principals. (I'm not a veg.,enjoy a good steak any day). There are countries in which the eating of those animals we class as pets is a custom, not condoning this at all, just pointing it out. Perhaps the way to go with regards to legislation would be re the humane slaughter of any animal or bird. Even the way some farmers slaughter their sheep/cattle etc. in my mind is unneccesary cruelty. I have also read that some commercial abbitors leave a lot to be desired. So perhaps a complete overhaul of this section would be the way to go.

That's great, I got an email from the Victorian Minister too but it was with an attachment that my PC cant open so sent it to my son and was waiting for him to open it and send it back, assume it was the same as you got, so one for our side. I also emailed each State with the question, was it illegal in that particular State, reply from Tasmania included a copy of their Act and their assumption that it was illegal. Had to email back and point out they had exactly the same loophole as Victoria. Reply from Western Aussie includes their Act, worded differently, would give them the power to prosecute any incidents if required. Still waiting on the other States. Also have not even had acknowledgment from our esteemed VCA, some response from the RSPCA, Vic. waiting on followup from them. The wheels turn slowly.

A few years ago, a friend had a duck which hatched babies but left 2 eggs in the nest, he was going to throw them away so I took them home, put them in a box, under some blankets on the spare bed and turned the electric blanket on. 24 hours later had 2 gorgous ducklings hatched. My Border Terrier thought they were great, would sit and watch them for ages, only had to mention 'bubby duckies" and there he was, fussing around them. The Min Pins were intent on having them for lunch, so didn't get near them.As they got older and were put out on the grass for a while (with the Mins safely locked up) Ben would follow them around and if they went different ways would gently push them together again. I wished I had a video camera to film them. Ducklings grew and I made a run with a pond in it for them and Ben would come in to feed them every day. Then one day he was trying to get them together and one pecked him on the nose. From that day on, as far as Ben was concerned, there weren't any more ducks at our place, I could say "where's the bubby duckies" and Ben would look into the distance with the look "what bubby duckies?". Still have the ducks and Ben still ignores them.

Drat, tried to go to the minelphi site through the address I gave you and an email comes up, then remembered they want you to email them for permission to use their address, so if that happens to you, you will have to get in through a search, I went through Google, if you have that.

There is a lady showing Rotties who also has a Min Pin and she says the Min bosses the Rotties around, they are that sort of dog. If you go to [email]-minelphiminpin@iprimus.com.au[/email] You will see some nice Mins. The chocolate dog is a full brother to my girl and has sired some nice pups. There are a number of sites in Aussie for the mins. just put in Miniature Pinscher breeders and you can surf around.

I remember that, it was on the news, a obvious puppy farm, it was near Ballarat, cant remember the guys name either but it was brought up in Parliament after complaints of the conditions were received. Have a vague recollection that the guy was a Doctor, human or Vet. I'm not sure. Hang on, I don't mean he was human! :mad:

I can't argue with that :lol: What dogs do you have, Ann?

Interesting--I have just put a.c.a.breeders kennels into two different search engines, Google and Mama, and they both go directly to Bourke's Backyard. Is there a message in there somewhere? :evilbat: