science_doc

Thanks for the response newfiemom, I realize that we have had this conversation before, but then I read the post about Eukanuba and their tests and it made me think that all you guys object to all testing even when it has the potential to benefit your own dogs. This makes me confused......I don't understand and I was just looking for further clarification. As always this is not an attack on ANYONE's beliefs, just trying to get some understanding.

I hate to harp on this subject, but since I'm always thinking about it....does anyone want to volunteer a response to my earlier question about how they feel about animal testing and what the limits should be? I'm asking mostly because I'm feeling a bit torn.....I really feel strongly about what I do, but I'm afraid that most of you would disagree about all testing using live animals. If that's the way you feel I understand, but I'm always trying to determine where the average animal lover draws the line.......just makes things easier for all of us honest hardworking medical researchers trying to improve human and animal lives :roll:

Thanks guys, that's my absolute favorite color of dog!

okay that was me again, stupid computers here time out and log me out, I have to remember to check that more often :oops:

okay, here comes a question that shows my dog ignorance, but here goes: How many breeds of dogs have brindle as a legitimate color?

Ya I really love that particular family of disease, by far one of the most interesting facing modern medicine. I guess that infectious disease is really a hobby for me (if you can believe that, LOL), my primary interest is in embryonic development. It's so cool that a single cell divides and divides to give rise to something as complex as a human or a dog to stay on topic of the site :P

Whoooppppsss :oops: :oops: That guest above was me (in case you couldn't tell)

Thanks for the support Deep, you and I definately see eye to eye on the value of well planned and not excessive experimentation.

As always, I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here to try pick the brains of the people I feel like I really work for. I know that many of the things you read on the internet about animal research are written in a way to make you think that all animal research is horrible, but what if your dog has kidney failure? Honestly (not trying to be hostile really want to know what you guys think :oops: ), would you want to know what food was the best to feed your dog? The only way to obtain that kind of knowledge is to do the experiments. I know this seems horrible, and I'm not sure if Eukanuba performs the tests in the best way possible cause I don't work there, but science requires sacrifice. If you say that you would rather put your dog to sleep than have any experiments performed on animals, imagine your child, husband, mother, partner, etc dying of kidney failure........now does that change your mind? If you really feel that ALL animal experiments are bad, I'm curious to know how you imagine that research can progress? I'm not saying that experiments should be perfomed in the barbaric ways described about Huntington Life Sciences in Europe and the US, but what do you guys think is tolerable and what is'nt. I'm really curious and not trying to pick a fight, just trying to determine where the line is drawn. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

The biggest problem with this disease spreading to people from beef as well as venison is that the incubation period of the old variation was 7-10 years, but what they are calling the new variation of the diseas seems to take people down in only 1-3 years, spooky. I should add that hearing about the disease didn't make me stop eating venison or beef, just made me pause 8)

In case there is any more interest out there, I found this on a quick web search: [url]http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/recommendations.main[/url]

There is not much information out there about the disease in deer yet, but the cow,sheep,mink,human version cannot be killed by heat, formaldehyde, autoclaving or anything else that has ever been tried. This is by far the most sneaky scary disease growing in our world. There are great books about the origins and early discoveries of the disease, but the deer/elk version is very new, about a year or too old. The disease spread RAPIDLY across Wisconsin and Colorado (I think), so I would keep my ears open in Iowa. Last and this years deer season they are taking spinal cord samples from all harvested deer to carefully monitor the situation.

Hummmm, my biggest concern with venison, depends on where you live. Have you heard about chronic wasting disease? This disease is a variation of "mad cow" disease that is spreading rapidly through wild deer and elk populations in the USA with no good explaination about how transmission is occurring. In Wisconsin, they are saying that the meat is safe to eat, but I would pause, especially if the butchering of the deer is done carelessly. ANY SLIGHT contamination with nervous tissue has been suggested to be a big problem with passing along mad cow and scrapie (the sheep version). Anyhow that's my 2 cents. BTW all you British dog lovers, this is one of my favorite diseases, so I'm always interested in new information :lol: 8) :lol: 8) :lol: 8)

Thanks Horsefeathers and corgilady, I can't wait to get started somewhere :lol: I'll keep you all posted on what I learn and how things are where ever I end up volunteering.

I worked with someone who found one of the designer mutt sites on the web and exclaimed to me look, purebred parents out bred to make a HEALTHIER dog. She went on to explain to me how ALL pure dogs are hopelessly saddled with a million genetic diseases and how this would solve all the problems. I think there are many more ignorant than educated people when it comes to pets and pet care, unfortunately for the rest of us!

Horsefeathers, Do you have any knowledge about the Dekalb county shelter. On their website they say that they are a no kill facility and I've checked their website and the dogs don't change much, but I want to volunteer somewhere I can do some good and so far I have heard BAD things about the various Atlanta shelters. If not Deklab, any suggestions? There are lots of rescues groups here so I supposed it wouldn't matter, but I thought that asking couldn't hurt :wink:

I despise PETA. They are too extreme and I know of several labs which have been completely destroyed by their acts. What I don't get is their actions often end in a brutal death for the very animals they claim they are trying to save. For example, in Wisconsin (where I was was born) their favorite stunt was to break into mink farms and let loose all those poor mink! They would 1. get CRUSHED by cars, 2. get eat'in by hawks (how long can a white animal avoid a predator in the middle of summer?). 3. Worst of all they would make it to the woods and starve to death waiting for the farmer to bring them their food. Anyway, I realize that my opinion of them is biased, but one of the places where I worked I had to wear a badge so the company would know my whereabouts at all times so when the PETA bomb blast went off they could tell my family if I was in the buliding or not, really used to FREAK me out! My final blather is that when they do destroy the data from a lab all the animals which have been euthanized for an experiment become a COMPLETE WASTE, wasn't what they were trying to prevent in the first place? Sorry if this offended anyone this group just gets my hackles up :oops:

I have put in my two cents on the animal research stuff before and I agree COMPLETELY with the paragraph in this article that animals obtained from shelters would make less than suitable research animals. In order to really get good data from research you have to control and understand the complete history of the subject, end of story. I wish I could find out which companies/universities are using pound animals, because as I have stated before I don't know about any valid labs that are using animals with unknown history. As for animal testing I'm sorry but it's a necessary part of science, most of us do our best to use as few animals as possible and to treat all the animals with the utmost respect and care for the duration of their lives. As always I am open to hear any opinon brought forth and love to debate the pros and cons of what I do, if I didn't believe in it I would find another career.

Guess this won't surprise anyone, but I scored a 43, as usual for me animal rights are important, but I still believe in the need and benefit of research toward animal and human disease

Well we made it to GA and I finally have computer time again, YEA :D Did I miss any good drama??? (I know something must have happend since I last dropped in) Missed all you dog stories while I was gone :(

K, I'm going to take that message as a heads up.......looks like another group that could use a hand. The shelter I'm trying to volunteer at, is a big no kill facility I've been eyeing all the dogs there for a month. I'm going to get an extra job so I can pay off my credit cards and buy a house with a fence, then look out. I want to adopt at least 2 dogs, once I have the PERFECT setup, no more northern breeds without a fence :lol:

Thanks for setting the record straight giz, there are so many myths out there especially bout the "dangerous" breeds :wink:

I don't know if these statements are true or not so please don't bash me all to little tiny pieces, but I read an article about a rescue pit who could chew his way out of ANY crate made, even the super strong ones. Don't pits have pretty strong jaws? Don't get me wrong I have no problem with this or any other specific breed, but I wonder if the dog placed into the hold was a bit of an escape artist. If this is true shouldn't owners sedate their dogs if necessary for the flight? I'm not talking about full on anesthesia, but just a couple of sleepy pills? I hate to see blanket rules for anything in this world. Stinnks for everyone else who needs to get their dog cross country. Well please let me know if I'm wrong about pits, but I was under the impression that pound for pound they had the strongest jaws????????

As a novice dog owner who recently made a mistake :oops: I would advocate manditory classes before any joe schmoe (like me) walked into the human society and said I'm ready for ANY KIND OF dog now. I think that if they shelters and even breeders forced this kind of education it might save money in the long run by having fewer dogs give up right after the puppy fluff disappears. Well that's my 2 cents anyway :roll:

Not to start anything, but only cause I'm trying to get the flavor of everyone here, but what did beagle do? I think I missed something....I'm going into the members only section to do a little investigating.