science_doc

In order to acheive FDA approval, most foods/drugs are tested on multiple organisms through mulitple studies, this is far more difficult and expensive (this is why the U.S. has the highest drug prices in the world, U.S. companies do the development then need to recoup the millions spent on R+D and approval here) than people imagine. Take Olestra for example, here is a small portion what P+G went through to get it approved(I am not condoning P+G, Olestra is just really close to aspartame): [quote]When a new food additive is being proposed for approval there are many factors that need to be evaluated. Olestra, as a fat replacement molecule, has the potential to replace a significant portion of the diet. This is in contrast with most food additives such as spices or flavors that typically would form a small portion of any diet. This potential for Olestra led to some unique considerations in the approval process. The first consideration in any food additive safety evaluation is whether the product is toxic when consumed. A related concern is whether Olestra is absorbed and if the absorption products produce any toxicity. Proctor & Gamble determined that Olestra is not absorbed in the intestine. But lack of absorption means that a greater and greater concentration of Olestra builds up in the intestine. This increasing portion was evaluated for its effect on the digestion and elimination process and any associated nutrient interactions while Olestra was present in the digestive tract. What do we mean by nutrient interactions? Specifically, many vitamins are fat soluble and Olestra is a fat-like molecule that is not absorbed in the intestine. This aspect of nutrient interactions led to extensive studies with the fat-soluble vitamins and a variety of fat-soluble drugs and other lipophilic substances. Studies were also completed after heating Olestra under conditions similar to those expected with food and snack frying. The expected Olestra consumption levels were also studied. Over 100 animal studies and 25 clinical (Human) trials were completed in an effort to establish the safety of Olestra in response to the way that the FDA places this burden on the petitioner, Procter & Gamble.[/quote] This is not a fool proof system however. Take the example of Thalidomide. This drug was marketed as a drug that would help prevent morning sickness. Unfortuantely for lots of babies, the drug was tested in the wrong species of monkey and mice or rats (can't remember which?) and in those two animals it was not a teratogen (harms the fetus). When people took the drug their children were born without limbs! Once scientists went back and checked the drug in rabbits and another type of monkey, they observed the same problem of babies without limbs seen in people. People's fear of cancer from food baffles me! Many times people will sit and talk about how scared they are that aspartame is giving them cancer as they take a drag of a cigarette. I wonder how many people have noticed that the second leading cause of cancer is quickly becoming obesity?????? BTW if your eating produce that is non-organic I would be far more concerned about pesticides on/in your food or even your lawn (which filters down to your well water) than I would be about a little bit of aspartame! Now I am done ranting :drinking:

Thanks for the info Divine....I find that really strange, that someone could own a dog and not know the dogs age, but I guess that's just how people treat their animals, kind of sad. While we were at the vet a grubby looking guy brought in a little mixed looking dog and set her loose in the building despite at least 4 signs saying that leashes were required. Then when the techs. called his name and aske why he was there he mumbled "the dog has a cough, kennel I think?". You should have seen every dog owner in the place cringe and the poor techs. scrambling to catch the little doggie :evil: The [b]nerve[/b] of some people amazes me!!!!!!

We took Hailey to the vet for her check up/vaccinations. Everything was fine, but the vet felt like 5 years old was a pretty significant over estimate of her age. She wouldn't come out and give me a guess, because she said she really can't know, but that her teeth and body did not seem like that of a 5 year old dog. I was wondering if anyone had any guesses why someone would lie and make a dog [b]older[/b] on a humane society surrender sheet? I wonder if they got the dog from a rescue and weren't supposed to surrender her somewhere else? I always thought it was weird that on the line where it said where did you get this dog they answered with a ?. On a side note many people, including the vet, vet tech., obdience instructor, and dog wash owner, have suggested that Hailey looks like a husky/beagle mix. So I guess that's what she is...........no wonder she is such a runner :roll:

I say congratulations to Rocco, couldn't have found a better home :D

Today I registered Hailey with the city......I've been thinking of every possible precaution I can take in case she ever makes it out the door again and refuses to come when called.........I was wondering how many other people on this site bother to get their dog license? People who work with me seemed to think it was a waste of time and money :roll:

I went to visit with a friend this weekend and I brought Hailey since my friend has a pair of lab mixes and a "fenced in yard". I told her that I would have to look carefully at the fence in order to make a decision if I would let Hailey loose. This friend lives about 45 minutes from me out in the country. Well ........the fence was under 4 feet tall, so I decided to just keep Hailey on her 35 foot lead and I would hold on to her. After a while everyone was saying how calm she was acting and that she would probably be fine if I let her off. Personal experience tells me otherwise, Hailey fully recognizes what that lead means, and the moment it's off she will take off for the other side of the moon. I guess the bottom line is that I was just too worried about loosing her to let her go. Do you guys think I'm being a bit over protective? I have never set her loose in a situation like that before and I really have no reason to suspect she will jump, I just know that if she wanted to she probably could..........BTW her training is going awesome, the instructor told us over the weekend that we had the A+ best heeling dog in the class......I wish her recall was 1/2 as good as her heel, I wish I didn't love the northern breeds so much :drinking:

All I can say is sorry for your loss.........

Thanks for the tip!!! we are just about to take the cats in for their check ups and we decided that even though they are indoor kitties, we want to get them chipped anyway!!!!!

My sister loves cats the way I love dogs. Her best friend went and purchased a "tea cup poodle" from a pet store! My sister and I had a total fit and were giving her friend a really hard time about supporting pet stores that sell puppies and kittens. Anyway the family had the pet store dog about 10 months when it suddenly fell over and died. The family was devastated. The vet investigated the little dogs death and found the heart was really undersized and malformed, poor puppy never had a chance. I am pleased to say that after about 6 months that family went and adopted a dog from a local shelter.......guess these things work out in end.

I tried to make the liver treats............ :oops: only the smell and look of the liver made me gag until I threw up! So I decided to throw away all the treats and stick to the store bought variety. Now everone knows why I'm going to be a Ph.D. and not an M.D. :roll:

I was wondering if everyone uses Heartgaurd or Heartgaurd plus????? Or perhaps some other brand that I don't even know about. I'm getting ready to make a purchase on Pet meds.... Thanks in advance for any advice :lol:

Well now I'm thinking about trying to find a trainer in my area who can help me proof Hailey's recall after we finish our obedience class sequence. We are in class #1 of 3 6 weeks classes right now (totally positive re-inforcement), so that's about 6 months away. I am SO worried about her gettin loose and running off again, it keeps me awake at night. The little stinker does great on a long lead, but when she gets loose (thankfully this has only been 3 times in a year) she ignores every single recall attempt. She is also a first class door dasher.....add to that her new favorite trick of chasing loud vehicles and I'm sick to my stomach!

Okay this ecollar thing has gotten under my skin, mostly because I used to be totally against them until I read up a bit. Here is a link with some interesting information : [url]http://www.online-dog-store.com/dog_shock_collars.html[/url] Now this information should be taken with a grain of salt because this site seems to be selling these collars, but they claim that the voltage output of the collars is about the same as a static shock from a door knob. There is no way that type of voltage is going to do any damage at all.

ummmmm, I don't want to start anything here, but I would seriously doubt than anything battery operated could deliever enough electricity to penetrate the skin, much less alter neuronal function. I just feel bad when people put out scientific sounding propaganda.........you have to be very careful when you read "scientific studies"........people can make anything sound resonable. I have never used a shock collar myself, but someone else told me it gave them enough control over their hound dog to be able to have it off leash? I was wondering how that would work? I guess if the dog starts to run off, you would apply a shock? I'm not saying I want to try this, but I am curious? Hailey is learning whistle recall class right now and it seems to be working so far, but then again that's in the house, not outside, we'll see.........

I would just like to add that the big advantage to prong collars is that they will not hurt the trachea, the limited choke function of the prongs prevent them from applying pressure to the trachea like a choker will do. I researched the prong collar quite a bit before purchasing one and that's what I saw as the big advantage, the lack of dammage, cause Abbie would choke herself nearly to death on a choke collar. That being said, I have to say that using a prong collar produced instantaneous results with Hailey, but these results did not transfer as completely to the buckle collar as I hoped. But, using the prong allowed me to exercise her without destroying my shoulder as we slowly worked our way through some obdience classes. I agree with Goo, they are a tool and for both my husky mixes a necessary if temporary tool. Now I can control Hailey with my voice enough to not need the prong collar.......but with a 4 year old rescue used to getting her way these results took a year of work! I certainly would have been pulled down on more that one occasion on ice, so I have to say that I would use the pinch collar again, but as a tool, not something permanent. I haven't ever tried the head halters, cause both my dogs tend to hit the end of a 6 foot leash at a dead run and I never wanted them to get their body whipped around by their head............but once again the class I am taking right now is going to use them next weekend and I'm not above trying anything once, I'll give you an update next week....

I am so glad people are checking their dog's titers before just getting yearly vaccinations :lol: I think that this information could be collected and used to demonstrate that we have been over-vaccinating pets. I do believe in the safety and usefullness of vaccination, but we certainly know from people that the majority of vaccinations can take place about every 5-10 years depending on the antigen (the protein in the vaccination that causes the immune system to respond).

I don't know much about wellness dog food, but we have a cat with an extremely sensitive stomach, we were feeding him perscription science diet ZD "low allergen" food that was about $40 for a 15# bag......and he was still puking, but we switched to wellness and so far so good, way less expensive $25 for a 15# bag and good for our other cat too who is really overweight. I am also in the market for a new food....I have been happy with the way Hailey is doing on Iams, but I am going to switch due to what I have learned about their animal testing practices.....please keep me up to date on what you discover.

We have a HUGE crate for Hailey......when we bought it I wasn't worried about house breaking issues, but we wanted her to be able to stretch out during the day. Her crate is the "wire" type, which I like......at night when the door to our bedroom is open and the cats can wander in and out, we keep a blanket over the crate for privacy. during the day, when the cats are locked out of the bedroom, we lift the blanket off the crate so Hailey can look around and get some sunshine. I like this system right now, but to tell the truth as soon as we buy a house we are going to build and outdoor run with a roof and a heated/cooled dog house for Hailey. I don't feel right about keeping her inside all day. DRAT I wish someone around my area would open a doggie day care!

Mouse, they could do that, if all they wanted to show was that dogs were happy and healthy when they ate the food. Unfortunately it seems like Iams wants to make some pretty outrageous claims and they only way they can "prove" their objectives is to do some insanely cruel experiments. For medical tests and such this type of laboratory testing is sometimes necessary to control all variables and make a valid test. There is no way to justify those types of measures for a food, after all when your dogs is sick you should give him medicine, not count on your dog food to heal the dog.

Hailey and I went to our new obedience class today and all I can say is WOW. This instructor isn't even in the same league as the other place we went. I'm still glad we did that first 3 week class, I was able to control Hailey pretty well, but we learned some cool new stuff today and it was just the first class. I was pretty sure the last one wasn't very good, but this is such a huge learning process. Hailey and I are going to the shelter where I adopted her from tomorrow with a big bag of food as a thank you for taking care of her and I'm going to pass along the name of this new facility as a place people should take their dogs :D This instructor is more interested in social time as well as work time, which seemed to me to help the dogs concentrate better instead of just going nuts trying to sniff the other dogs. At least now I can go watch a class and know what to look for with all the other dogs I plan to adopt :P

Thanks everyone for being so understanding and forgiving. There are definatley no hard feelings on my side, I'm just glad I stopped being a horses butt and decided to open my mind. I have been feeding Iams cause Hailey seemed to do so well with that food, but as soon as I find a good alternative I'm going to switch too. TDG I commed you on your choices of environment friendly products. Before I became a molecular biologist I studied ecology. I wish that there were more people out there trying to change things with their wallet. I think that is probably the only way things will ever change.

Dogpaddle I feel your pain! I have been slowly working with Hailey for a year and I had started with the prong collar because she just didn't get it at all. I am definately no expert on dog training. I know your not supposed to call them back, but that's what I had to do for a while. I would stand there and she would stand there and start whining and barking and pulling more. So I started be just calling her to me and giving her a treat......she would gobble and run so thanks to Kendalyn (I think?) I started giving her little commands when she did that like "easy Hailey". After she nearly ripped my arm out of the socket about 200 times I just stopped and said nothing and then boom one time she looked back and I smiled and then she trotted right back? I have absolutely no idea why it worked that one time, but all it took was some praise and after that it got better fast. I feel lucky that we can finally communicate 8) Now I have a new problem, of course :lol: Suddenly Hailey has slowed down to look around and discovered the new joy of chasing any lound vehicle passing on the street. Once again the first time she nearly pulled me over! Now when I hear a loud car, truck, or bus I just pull her close and say no Hailey, but this could be a dangerous habbit. I would appreciate any ideas people have about how to stop this new bad habit.

Hailey has got one blue and and one "cracked" brown eye. People are always noticing her eyes and asking if she is blind in one eye and going blind in the other? I don't know why people equate light blue eyes with blindness?

Hey guys, I finally made a training breakthrough with Hailey! I had been using a pinch collar with Hailey cause she just wouldn't respond to anything I was trying. BUT, the last couple of walks I just dug in my heels and decided that if she was going to pull I wasn't going to move (I did this with a flat buckle collar). FINALLY, she turned around and came back to me, I was in total shock :o I got a hold of myself and gave her a treat and started prasing like crazy and now when she gets pulling all I have to do is STOP and walla she turns around and comes back to me :lol: I almost started crying right there in the street. I am so happy! Our next obdience class on Saturday and I can't wait! This school os a bit more highly recommend than the first school we went too and I hope it's a bit better.

Okay I would like to put forth an apology for posts I made regarding P+G and Iams food :oops: I'm sorry if I offended anyone, this is a difficult topic for me because I feel defensive about animal research. It's something I have extensively been a part of in the past and I'm pretty sure will be a big part of my future. I finally broke down and read the stuff about Iams and I will agree that these tests were excessive for food testing. I could think of lots of alternatives to the types of experiments they were and I guess still are performing. I just have a hard time with anything put forth by PETA. Anyway let me say I'm sorry again. I love my dog and cats as much as everyone else loves theirs. I enjoy reading and posting at this site and I would like to continue. I'll try to contain my defensive feelings about this topic in the future and keep my mouth shut when I start thinking I know more than anyone else just because I am a researcher :oops: