Horsefeathers!

The posts are out of order. :-?

See, I knew that Cassie would come up with way more than I could. Perhaps you should crosspost this in the health or care section where TDG is more likely to see it as well. You're bound to get some good info there, too. One thing that comes to my mind is the potential for thyroid disorders. I would suggest having a full thyroid panel run. Not the "regular" panel, but ask for the full Michigan panel which is supposed to be able to pick up things that the "regular" thyroid panels don't. Also, I do know we are seeing a dog at our clinic with very similar symptoms as those described and he was treated for at least a couple of years by a couple of vets for everything from yeast infection to demodex before our vet discovered that this dog has Cushings and an adrenal gland tumor. The dog is dying, but at least they have a diagnosis. The thing is that there are so many things that can go wrong that manifest themselves in the form of bad skin. Anything from food allergies to contact allergies to immune disorders to thyroid disorders and so on. It can be very difficult to find out exactly what's wrong. With Devin, it seems a lot of his problems are indeed food allergies and contact allergies. There seem to be more things he CAN'T eat than things he CAN eat and it's been (and still is) a long, hard road experimenting. He also gets a bath at least once weekly, preferably twice, in a soap free hypoallergenic shampoo simply because it seems to help in removing any contact allergens he picks up. I like Hylyt or Eqyss Premier for gentle cleaning (not medicated), but for flareups when I want to help soothe his itching (in addition to other measures), I do prefer Eqyss MicroTek. I've had better results with this (not only with Devin, but client dogs) than any of the prescribed medicated shampoos. Again, this is just my experience with Devin and a few clients. These things help, but we're still in the process of finding things that work and figuring out what's "wrong" with him (a combination of things). I don't know that I'd be ready to put the little fellow down yet when there seem to be other things to try, but only she knows her budget and what she is able to do. That's a judgment call only she can make. I wish I knew other things to suggest. I really would consider posting this in health or care and let TDG take a look. She has a much broader range of information than I do. I wish this little pup well and hope he finds some relief.

Smooshie, I promise I'm not ignoring this post. I'm just kind of blowing through right now and doing about 10 gazillion other things, but as soon as things settle back to normal, I'll try to come back to it. Maybe in the meantime, TDG or Cassie or newfie or someone else pretty knowledgeable may be able to think of something else. Either way, I'll try to come back to this a little later. I just didn't want to seem like I was blowing it off. :oops:

YES! When I first started reading of problems with the ProHeart shot, I mentioned it to my vet. You know, just kind of food for thought, discussion, that sort of thing. His reply to me was "you can't believe everything you read on the internet." :o

Thanks! What was funny to me is that it's the first can of dog food where I've ever seen these directions... "shake well before opening." :o I'm so proud of my vet for carrying this stuff. Still... $3.50 a can. Whoa! :o

:oops: :oops: :oops: Ever heard of Merrick canned food? My vet is beginning to carry this (in addition to the Canidae... yay!) and this stuff is like $3.50 a can! I was just wondering what you thought of it. I mean, I'm just being nosy and I'm not planning on buying up cases of it (er, not at that price, I could cook for all of them for way less :oops: ), but I wanted to ask. I'd never heard of it before. 8)

But DO... that doesn't sanitize and I was always afraid that if I started running soapy stuff up in there, I'd never rinse it properly. Maybe it's just me, but I never did think they were clean enough and I didn't want to soak them in anything. It's just another one of my quirks, I reckon. :oops:

[quote name='AKelley'] I considered switching to bottle water instead of tap, but that route is too costly for me having 7 dogs. [/quote] I have 10 dogs, some large (Lab, Standard Poodles and a Dobe) and it's really not so expensive to keep them all on bottled water (and I'm as cheap as they come!). We buy it by the gallon in stores like Wal*Mart (not that I'll shop there much for ethical reasons) for 58c a gallon. With all 10 dogs, we go through about 2 gallons of water a day (we also add it to the food) at a cost of only about $1.20 a day and that includes frequently changing it. It's much cheaper to do it this way than buy the individual bottles of water. Just a thought if you're interested. :) I'm not a really big fan of water bottles because they are nearly impossible to wash. I've had other critters that used water bottles (bunnies and ferrets), but those darned bottles are so hard to clean. Even if you get the inside of the bottle clean, I never could find a way to effectively clean out the little tubey part with the little roller ball thingy and it would get so slimey. I didn't want to soak them in any kind of cleaner because I worry about residual stuff with plastics, but I couldn't get inside there to clean adequately (or what I'd consider adequate). Maybe I was just doing it wrong. I used to consider putting some of my bearded dogs on water bottles, but after the bottle woes with the other critters, I said forget it. I do have three Lhasa Apsos and a Schnauzer that drink the bottled water from stainless steel pans (cleaned and changed at least three times daily now instead of the once we used to do) and none of them have beard stains. One of my Lhasas is white and the Schnauzer's beard is very light silver and none of them have beard stains (can't say their faces are dry, though :oops: ). They used to stain horribly. I'm not dissin' your method. Just throwing out my own experience. :wink: DP, I don't know why I didn't think of that before, but it took reading this last post to realize that my dogs USED to have beard staining and don't now :oops: . Still not a bad idea for an oral exam with a dog with mouth stains, though.

Congratulations, mouse!! I'm so please for you! :laola: :laola:

For now, Simon has had just a basic wellness exam. His vision doesn't seem diminished and there are no overt signs of illness, no fever, no parasites, nothing glaringly out of the ordinary. Of course, he stood right there for the vet with his "I don't know what her problem is, I'm fine" demeanor, making me look like a fool. The last couple of days have been good days and he's acting fairly normal. Court, Simon is not a nervous, timid dog, and has never been snappy or growly with anyone, ever, but rather a very friendly, outgoing guy (other than antagonizing other dogs :oops: ). It would have been easier to deal with if it were not something so far out of character for him. I thought about the possibility of something really venomous getting him in the yard, but his foot never did look that bad. Just kind of red and rashy like a minor bite(s), but it wasn't way swollen like I would expect with a more serious bite/sting. It seemed pretty minor and healed pretty quickly. Maybe I should have had it looked at by the vet, but I've doctored way worse "injuries" here at home right in our own little first aid station. It just didn't seem that bad at the time. :oops: We're just going to keep an eye on him and monitor to see if it gets worse, goes away, levels out or what. It'll be easier to keep check on his skin since I clipped him pretty short. It's still possible that he's older than we thought, so I reckon time will tell. If it doesn't seem better or gets worse soon, we'll have more extensive testing done, or if his hair loss and thin skin seems to spread (I'm so trying not to think Cushings). I'm kind of hoping he isn't starting up with a seizure disorder, either. We had an old dog a while back that began having similar mild episodes right before going into full blown grand mal seizures (that dog was also believed to have Cushings and was put on Anipryl). I will just have to watch for it. Thanks. 8)

Court, I wouldn't sweat it. Even if the people meant well enough, any AC officer worth their salt would be able to know whether there was a cause for concern or not. We once had someone bypass calling Animal Control entirely and called the cops on my husband once saying he was stabbing cats. We were home minding our business when BAM! all these cops showed up in our yard. What the neighbors saw: a man walking out the front door with a kitten in one hand and a "knife" in the other. What really happened: hubby had been working on one of our vehicles and decided to let our new (at the time) kittens come outside to play. His hands were still kind of cruddy, so he picked up one at the time by the nape of the neck and carried them out. In his other hand was a screwdriver, or whatever tool he was using to work on the car at the time. The cops did check the kittens out to be sure hubby was not stabbing(?) them and that was that. At first we were a bit indignant, but I guess I'd rather have a well intentioned (if ignorant) busybody get involved than turn their head to "obvious" (which is in the eye of the bystander) abuse. We read so many stories of abuse that happens and wonder why no one got involved. I guess sometimes you point a few fingers at the wrong people in the attempt to get the real bad guys. It may be a pain in the butt, but I'm sure in the end, if AC had come out to see what you had going on, nothing would have come of it. Don't sweat it. 8)

I didn't know whether to put this in health, care, training, behavior, or where, so since it's a combination of things, I put it here. Simon is our Schnauzer. He's estimated to be about 8ish years old, but it's anyone's guess as to how old he really is. He was picked up several years ago as a stray. He's acting really funny lately. A couple of weeks ago, he had gone outside and when he came back in, he was jerking and twitching and bothering at one of his feet. Closer inspection showed a bit of an irritated spot between his toes like maybe he'd gotten into some ants. I doctored it and it's fine. About the same time this happened, he started acting... odd. He's always been an outside loving dog, but lately he almost refuses to go. We figured that maybe he was "traumatized" by whatever irritated his foot, but it really wasn't that bad. He's had worse sores and problems than that and survived. I'm beginning to wonder if the foot thing was just coincidental and maybe Simon is having some more serious problems. He has also started acting like he really doesn't want to be bothered. He's usually right in the middle of things, but lately he stays under the bed, or if the bedroom door is closed, he squirrels away in a corner under an end table. Simon is, for the most part, my husband's dog. That dog cannot stand for my husband to be in one part of the house or yard and Simon stuck somewhere else. He'll howl and scream and whine until they are "reunited." To say he is extremely fond of my husband is an understatement. Now, keeping that in mind, something happened a few nights ago that we don't understand. Simon was lying near my husband's feet and raised his head and began screaming like a dog would if you stepped on its tail or paw. He was screaming like something was on him. Hubby looked down there and tried to see what was wrong and Simon bit him! It was like he (Simon) didn't know who my husband was. Simon has never, ever, ever been a biter and we can't imagine him biting ANYONE, but especially not my husband. No fear biting, no socialization issues, none of that. He was either having some sort of "episode" or something unknown to us was hurting him, though there was nothing near him to bother him. Simon has always had some skin problems and itchiness. We've mostly been able to control it, but he has outbreaks of itchiness from time to time, worst in the Spring. I was buzzing Simon down tonight and noticed he has splotches of hair loss all over his body! No sores, just hair loss. His skin also feels funny... like little old man skin, thin and frail. Simon is also acting like he sees something. He just raises his head and follows "something" on the ceiling and walls. It's like he sees something we don't see. He's done this in the past very occasionally, but he's constantly doing it now. I know it's time to consult with the vet, but does anyone have any ideas of something I could ask about? I don't know whether to think he may have Cushing's, or maybe he's just way older than we originally thought and he's just getting senile, or cancer (Schnauzers are so prone to cancer, so it makes me paranoid), or what may be going on. He still eats good, bowel and bladder activity are normal, and he doesn't act like he's hurting when we manipulate him to try to find pain. I'm absolutely stumped. Anything that I could specifically ask the vet about? Thanks. :( [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YgAAACcgUWxQmpp0VyKu7lNziE6NuzK7bCQVqMksi1R5nkxmg5GKnsAkzQ2UjaGfcuS6XYayH8u9xWx5TzYnJVOVPe8oeO2xHeeR3y!usNTA2C5S7iZOnDmvie0JCZkhNLHSULPQ1nQYsIVLgvp4!g/Simon%20outside.jpg?dc=4675379078676201323[/img]

DP, you rock!! :bigok: [quote name='nicky']Unfortunately I live in Atlanta [/quote] Another Georgian here. Just wanted to wave at you from the other end of the state. :hand: [u]Unfortunately :crazyeyes: ??[/u] Heck, in Atlanta you can get anything you want! I lived in Atlanta for a while and though I'm not much of a big city girl, if ever I were to make a change and move back into a major city, it would be Atlanta. It's my favorite gee golly city in the US (and I've seriously traveled them ALL)! I'd love to move back up that way again. Where I live, Atlanta is considered "up north." :oops: Good luck finding the food you're looking for! :popcorn:

Y'all make me giggle. :oops: :lol: I'm more used to people telling me to BUTT OUT than asking for advice. :o :P

[quote name='DogPaddle']Poodles are also very versatile dogs, they do well with children, other dogs, cats, agility, obedience, service dogs etc. The general public sees them as the uberdog, only problem for them is they are a little frufru. IMO this is why there are so many poomixes - people actually want a Standered Poodle but don't want to admit that they want a [i]poodle[/i] or they are so daft as to think that a straight poodle is to common or boring so they mix it with another dog like a lab or a gsd or whatever.[/quote] EXACTLY my theory! People are so hung up on the image Poodles have of being an accessory item for little old ladies and they don't want their drinking buddies to make fun of them. Yet they'll spend big bucks on a "Poodle lite." Most people who meet my Standard Poodles think they're so cool and always stop to admire them, but then they'll say something stupid like, "yeah, they're nice dogs, but I'd look gay walking them..." Morons. They're athletic, intelligent and versatile dogs. They are real dogs just like any other dog of similar size. I really don't have a problem with the mixing of breeds in a carefully controlled breeding program that has a higher goal in mind than $$$, but it does make me sick that Poodles are so diluted and overbred just so people can have a Poodlish dog without being stuck with the label of being a she she foo foo girly "gay" Poodle owner, or they want to be cool and have the latest designer fashion whether it's a line of clothing or a "rare breed" of dog. Being a Poodle owner is just not considered cool. Their loss. Is anyone else envisioning a curly double coated dog? Can you imagine the care that coat would take? Think of a dog with a thick double coat that sheds profusely and then imagine him with tight curls that holds that shedding hair so that it doesn't fall out (therefore people THINK they have a nonshedding dog when it's actually stuck on the dog). Not a coat *I* would want to have to care for. What happens to the dogs who get the worst of both breeds (as in profit motivated and without the interest of the dogs being taken into consideration)? A dog with the type of coat mentioned above with seizure disorders, bleeding disorders, a low slung rear end walking on its hocks. Yeah, I'd pay big bucks for one of THOSE. :-?

Thanks, everyone! :angel: Court, I don't know what to tell you. This is only my opinion, so please don't take offense because I don't mean it to come off ugly... I think your son needs to either commit to bonding or at least coexisting peacefully with Laurel, or just totally leave her alone, period. He needs to realize that she is a DOG and he is a PERSON with the ability to reason. I think it's really wrong for him to hold a grudge against her and basically "punish" her when she doesn't respond as he wants. It pretty much seems to me that he's feeding that monster (fear). If he can't compromise and try to work with her when she does try to approach him, maybe he should just ignore her entirely. I just get the feeling he's sending her mixed signals and it's upsetting her more. I'm not saying her wellbeing takes precedence over his... just that I don't think it's fair for him to basically "torment" her by sending mixed signals. Either he should commit to working with her, or leave her alone. Does this make sense? Again, I don't mean it to sound ugly and doG knows I'm not a dog trainer. It's just my own perception. Court, I hear you mention your son's "loud obnoxious friends" quite a bit. Any way you could put your foot down and say "this is MY house!" and put an end to some of the behavior that obviously seems to bug you from time to time? Your son may live there, but his friends do not and, IMO, Laurel's wellbeing should be more important than THEIRS. If they won't cooperate with you, perhaps it's time to put your foot down and set boundaries for them. Just my friendly advice and certainly not intended to sound offensive. I really do care! Cairn et al, I don't know if any of what I did with Pauly would work for you. I mean, it's not a "technique" I picked up anywhere and I have no idea how it might work for another dog. I'm scared to tell someone to lunge and whack their own dog. It did work with Pauly, but I made it all a game and he ended up thinking that the rougher, the more fun. It seems weird to me, too, so I may not be the best to offer advice. To be totally honest, I expected someone to come forward and tell me what a horrible thing I did. :oops: Oh... that's not actually a picture of Pauly. I saw it on another board and mentioned that it looked exactly like Pauly... same expression. Though they are both white Standard Poodles, Pauly's and Perry's expressions and faces are as different as night and day. The person who originally posted it took it and made a siggy for me. Still, it looks just like him. :oops: This IS da Pauly dogger (and Perry). I know he looks like he's wearing a wig, but it's because I had only shaved his face that morning and didn't have time to trim his head. My husband said it looked like Pauly was wearing a blonde wig :oops: . Pauly's expression is identical to the one in the siggy. Ok, no one cares but me, but still... :P 8) [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0aADxAkQg7p0hJNSjCczJkIMMJN*a0c*OKLJuTt2oc2mYu0iu7WDMSklxishp!HVSxSYAF2cYNajOCpR4U2saqjP0fRstKoshcH1ooR0tpSwCEyTdYUixNYrU4naAnwYUMAaBvDIsUxq7oaU37CCWsWxsYS80LjAg/Perry%20%26%20Pauly0.JPG?dc=4675486515046811963[/img]

Okily dokily, I got the picture. Once I typed the url into a separate window and viewed it there, it started showing up on the post. Court, you big meanie! It's not a scary looking green face, but a gator! Here I was thinking we had mutant green scary faces lurking in our woods and lakes. :P

[quote name='sashagirl']Am I the only one seeing the big green face? :o [/quote] No. I was just sitting here thinking, "OMG, some big scary looking green face is living by a lake and tormenting people!!" I just thought it would sound stupid if I said it. You know, in case I was missing something which I obviously am. :oops: Anyway, yeah I'm seeing the green face.

Dammit it all, I missed this post! I might have been able to help. I'm so glad it had a positive outcome, though. I would have hated myself for missing this had it come out worse. :(

Some of you know that my Pauly (one of my Standard Poodles) was having some issues being nervous and a fear biter. We were seriously considering sending him back to rescue at one time because, to be honest, I'm still not as willing to deal with aggression as I used to be. However, this last month at home has made a HUGE difference (newfiemom, I promise this is relevant to you). We had already began working with Pauly on trying to build confidence with the NILIF stuff and it was helping. He seemed more afraid of hubby than me and has never been blatantly aggressive... just very nervous and snappy if he feels physically threatened. Enter Crazy Owner. This entire month, I've worked on trying to "desensitize" Pauly. I've flailed my arms, lunged at him, whacked him with my crutches, and all in the most playful, perky perky perky manner. Of course, I built it up and didn't just start whacking on him, but still... It seems really stupid, but it's so hard to explain. It has worked WONDERS. I knew I was going to have to smack him around (figuratively... sorta) with those crutches because I was so clumsy on them and I knew the time would come when I'd accidentally get him and I didn't want him to think I was "attacking" him if I accidentally tripped and landed on him, or stepped on him. He's gotten SO desensitized to nearly everything that I can't seem to find ANYTHING that makes him feel threatened. We've still done the NILIF stuff and then the additional rough housing and random pushes, shoves, "lunges," and such and I made it all something fun so that if it happened by accident, he wouldn't be startled. Now I could nearly beat this dog over the head with a crutch or dive on his head and he is soooooooo not threatened by any of it. He is so much a better, more happy dog. Newfie, we also did a LOT of clicker working. Lunge, click, treat. Whack, click, treat. Scream, click, treat. It may not be the way it's meant to work, but holy balls, it DID work. We've also done some more of the traditional clicker training. I wanted to thank you so much for the resources. Between the clicker, NILIF and the "desensitization," Pauly is a different dog. From the way it sounds, you'd think he'd be more neurotic, but I don't think he has a nervous bone left in his body. It's like now NOTHING surprises him, therefore he just doesn't startle. I've been loud, I've stomped, I've tripped and "lunged" toward him and I've poked, pushed and whacked him with crutches, fly swatters, shoes and hands, all in "fun," of course, so that maybe he'd NEVER have a reason to fear an upraised hand or object. He no longer flinches if I raise my hand to him. He used to cower and then growl. Now he raises to meet it, all smiles and wags. He's HAPPY to see someone raise a hand or object to him. YES! His recall now is pretty much 100%, too. If I call "Pauly, come!" he will stop whatever he is doing, no matter how "bad" it is, or how much fun he's having. Oh, happy days! Through some weird twist of fate, my hubby is going to be home from work this entire upcoming month and now he can work more intensely with Pauly. Pauly seems more threatened by men even though that's vastly improved, but I hope this next month sees as big a change as this last month. Anyway, I wanted to thank newfiemom for the clicker help and share the fact that truly crazy owners make for good dogs... at least sometimes. [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0XwAAAIYefeLb0rpcrDDOrMPIDQEqd6VHf!Roslqq97iiLCxh1gduicgXKT0c32v3LXVCceJ3nMFZZXMERJuLK94YTENk4b8JCdKVH5F0IDr91Gj4Y6!KyYrvS22nJA8fPV9EvuVojR8/Pauly%20sig.gif?dc=4675486246323715640[/img]

Hey, cool! Congratulations! 8)

DP... she meant Chicken Soup For The Dog Lover's Soul food. I thought it sounded funny, too, until she clarified. :lol:

I didn't perceive it as nasty at all. I think ESS was just being concise, but I didn't get the impression that she(?) meant it to sound ugly at all. I think that was just one of those perception things. You know, where you perceive something differently than it was intended. :wink:

Oh, no no no! I'd NEVER badmouth the vet to her, as much as I'd like to give him a swift kick to the crotch. It took all I had not to say anything, but I didn't and wouldn't only because I feel that makes me look unprofessional. I don't intend to approach her again about it. I just feel really, really bad that it happened at all. I'd never wish to rub salt in her wounds. I posted here pretty much immediately when I got off the phone with her because I was reeling. I've had time to calm down and realize she isn't pursuing me for anything. I'm just so saddened by the whole thing and angered by that vet's all or nothing attitude. I've been reading and reading since I got off the phone with her. That dog was 12 years old and there are any number of things that can cause bleeding like that from autoimmune disorders to a tumor on the spine that ruptured (as in one case I read about) to any number of other things. The vet should have at least offered a necropsy (but considering he didn't offer lab work to find out what was wrong...). I KNOW this woman would have gone for it if she had known she might have a chance to find out what indeed went wrong and caused her dog to bleed out and die. Thanks, guys.

[quote name='courtnek'] would it be hard to talk to the vet? I hate to say this, but people lie. she may not have told you the complete truth. sorry, HF, I know she was a trusted client, but I am not the trusting sort....[/quote] Court, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to talk with that vet. He's a pompous jerk who will not be bothered conversing with a lowly groomer. I don't doubt for a minute that she's telling the truth about what he said. At best, she might be misinterpreting something, but this particular vet has a history of being nasty and accusatory. If it were out of character for him, I'd be more likely to discredit her. To be honest, this vet has given me his arse to kiss ever since a few years ago when his uncle scraped my car with his van. This vet just totally thought I was stupid for filing a claim to have my car repaired since I wasn't driving an expensive new car. His personal demeanor aside, I've seen sooooooooo many mistakes he has made. I realize vets are human and they all make them, but this guy has made some real doozies. Over the years, I've often wondered if he got his veterinary degree through some correspondence school. :-? No, it's not likely I'll get anything out of him by trying to talk to him. He won't even speak to me when I speak. He only associates with a certain class of society and it ain't dog butt scrubbers.