Carolk9s

I'm with the take him to the vet brigade! He might have a soft tissue injury, maybe just bruised and will be fine but just to be sure...

Jesse is neutered, implants were not available then. Of course I would NOT have opted to have them put in him anyway! I can't say he misses them. He is VERY ticklish there, Belgian Sheepdogs have profuse hair, brushing and keeping him trimmed can be a bit tricky at times.

Is it possible the lip pigment might still change since he is so young? Is there an age at which it is 'set' pretty much? While I understand and appreciate your concern over this minor 'blemish' so to speak, what if he matures into an otherwise outstanding little Pap? True not all breed champions should be bred, but what would it hurt to show him a bit and see what the judges think of him otherwise? Just some musings of mine, certainly not trying to say what YOU should do in this regard! If you do decide to neuter, I believe 6 months is still the average but I've heard many times that earlier neutering is of little risk and perhaps easier on the pup to recover from.

Pigment changes are not uncommon as dogs mature. When Jesse was a pup, his lips were solid black. As he matured, pigment changed in areas so his lips have pink on them. When his mouth is closed, his lips show just the black, mouth open, you can see the pink. Here is a photo of him when he was about a year old, lips still black. [img]http://members.toast.net/agilk9s/Profile.JPG[/img] This one was taken when he was about 6, the pink is showing. [img]http://members.toast.net/agilk9s/Jess_Britt_Window_320x250.JPG[/img]

I have used Missing Link for some years now. At one time I was using Missing Link w/Glucosamine but now use regular Missing Link. It does help Brittany quite a lot, she had several incidences of a minor skin infection/irritation in her early years. Seems to have coincided with warmer weather. I'd take her to the vet, she get antibiotics, it would clear up. A few months later, she'd break out again. When I use Missing Link on a regular basis, her skin stays much healthier. I also learned to immediately treat any sores by cleaning with alcohol and then applying Neosporin. Over this past winter, I stopped using the Missing Link, I was adding fish and such to their meals and just forgot or did not think it was needed. Sure enough, I found a sore on Brittanys belly about a month or so ago. Treated it, put her back on Missing Link, all better. I like to put some of the powder in, splash a bit of hot water to dissolve it, then mix in their kibble.

Now if you had asked what 'kind' of dogs, I would have simply said SPOILED! 8) However, you did ask about breed. I have a Belgian Sheepdog, an Aussie/German Shorthair Pointer mix, and a Lab/Beagle/Terrier? mix. The Belgian is on the left, the Aussie mix is in the middle and the LBT? mix is on the right. [img]http://members.toast.net/agilk9s/Patriotic_Dogs_269x229.jpg[/img]

[quote name='meehs']It's not necessarily true that if a breed doesn't show-up on the AKC site that it's not a legitimate breed or it's a cross breed! Look at the breed list on Dogo! [/quote] THANK YOU. I AGREE.

[quote name='stacer126']How long do you crate train your puppy? She sleeps most of the night and she tells us when she has to go. She stays in a crate for just the morning. When is it o.k. to let her sleep in the bed with us at night?[/quote] When you are ready to ALWAYS let her sleep on the bed! :D Once they get a feel for that comfy bed with their humans, they EXPECT to sleep in the bed! Seriously, it depends on your pup. If she has an emerging dominant temperament, you might want to just hold off on allowing her on the bed. Elevating her to that status might reinforce to her that SHE is top dog whereas for now hers should be the lowest status of all in the human/dog pack. Take your time and have her earn this special treat . I would also consider her jumping OFF the bed at her age, not a great idea, let her mature some. If she accepts her crate quietly and calmly, I'd stick with that. A dog that settles nicely in a crate is a wonderful thing. You can progress to leaving the crate door open or even removing it if that is possible. If there is ever an emergency and she MUST be confined to her crate, it will not be as stressful to her as her crate is a familiar safe place.

The 9 yr old might not feel he is allowed to correct the puppy so he's looking to you. I would encourage him to correct her, it is very unlikely he would be too harsh. She will benefit from an older dog teaching her some rules. When I first brought Brittany home, she was 8 months old and full of herself. She whipped poor Jesse from one end to the other, finally I told him it was ok for him to fight back. That was when the real play began. Many Weims are athletic and high energy, remember this: A tired dog is a good dog! She might need more structured exercise than she is currently getting, throwing a ball in the yard, walking around the neighborhood on leash etc. While exercise is good, keep in mind not to overly stress her growing puppy body. Talk to her breeder about age appropriate exercise and conditioning. Work on quiet cuddle time where you can gently correct her biting and mouthiness. She will learn what is acceptable and what is not.

Well of course puppies will be puppies! It's certainly not 'abnormal' for a pup to be mouthy and bratty. Is she being bratty and full of herself or growling and acting aggressively? What breed or mix is she? How old is she? What does the 9 yr old dog do when the pup leaps at her and chomps on her? What do you or other people do when the pup chomps on you? Puppy needs to learn 'no bite' soon!

Hey Kiger, in addition to Shiboodles, how about breeding up some Shlabs? whooee what a combo that would be!

[quote=Mary's Mama]. Wellness is good but is really pretty low in protein and high in carbs. [/quote] 22% protein is NOT too low if the protein source is of good/high quality. If the dog is a performance dog, works hard, runs hard, does a lot of herding or police work or hunting or other such heavy activity, more protein could be needed. Otherwise, 22% is generally fine.

While I certainly would not advocate trying a less expensive/grocery store brand of food as an experiment, it is QUITE possible Kato would do just fine on one of them! I have to admit to a level of frustation with the food issue, yes some of the dry kibbles out there are not considered a 'quality' food. Nonetheless, SOME dogs do extremely well on them anyway! I honestly get a bit tired of hearing that certain premium foods or a raw diet are the ONLY way to go. Please don't anyone think I am speaking of anyone specifically, I am truly speaking in GENERAL terms. Canidae is considered a premium food, it caused frequent soft almost mushy stools in all 3 of my dogs and they were on it for over a month. I found out from another list that many other dogs who had been fed Canidae also had very soft stools. So it is TOO RICH. Some of the premium or 'super' foods are just too rich for our dogs. Many do not need all the 'extra' that is in them. I don't care if the ingredients are 'all natural' either, natural substances can kill you just as quick and of course too much of a good thing is just that, too much. Science Diet is considered garbage, it was very beneficial to Jesse and he THRIVED on it for a number of years. Brittany is the kind of dog who has done pretty much the same no matter what food she eats. She was on Science Diet Lite for a number of years and also THRIVED. I watch my dogs for little changes and cumulative changes, I NEVER saw any detriment in their health, fitness, activity level, etc while they were on Science Diet. A very well respected local Belgian Sheepdog breeder has been feeding Wayne dry food for over 20 years. She has hometown champs, international champs, herding champs, performance titled dogs etc from her lines. Her dogs ON AVERAGE live to between 15-17 years of age, pretty darned good for Belgians. I would have considered Wayne if I had been able to get it locally. Here's the ingredient list for Wayne: Ingredients: Poultry by product meal, ground corn, ground wheat, brown rice, poultry fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, salt, brewers dried yeast, choline chloride, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid, zinc oxide, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, extract of rosemary, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, biotin, sodium selenite, folic acid. Sorry for the rant, dogs can and do survive and thrive on grocery store brands of food every day. Flame suit on, fire away!

I don't see any Mal in Jake. Where did you get Jake from?

On one hand, Canidae is a really good food. It even smells good to my nose! On the other, it gave all of my dogs TOO soft stools and more frequent bowel movements. I then found out via the belgian list I'm on that many of the dogs that had been fed Canidae had soft stools. Not runny and still somewhat formed but soft. Whether or not that is a drawback for Rowie is for you to decide, perhaps won't even affect her that way. If you cannot get it anyway, not sure what to suggest. If you can only feed food found locally, I wonder if simply adding fresh 'treats' will help. Treats such as yogurt, fresh veggies, small amounts of fresh raw meat, fresh eggs etc.

[quote name='PamelaJ']... can anyone tell me anything about Science Plan? is it a good one? i really hope so cause Sorsha seems to love it :D[/quote] I am going to assume that Hills Science Plan is the same as Hills Science Diet? I keep hearing that Science Diet is garbage and a horrible food etc etc. Maybe it is, maybe it's changed since I used it a few years ago. Science Diet Adult Dry food did WONDERS for my Belgian Sheepdog Jesse. He carried good weight, had a lovely coat and skin, was VERY energetic and had no problems with it. Maybe this is as much due to his breeding but the ONLY medical issue I have had with Jesse in his almost 12 years of life is that he has a low thyroid. Low thyroid is not at all uncommon in Belgians. The years that I was feeding Science Diet were the years Jesse and I were most active in dog agility. We did very well in the ring so his strength and stamina were right where they should have been. Of course not every food is right for every dog, this is just my personal experience, Science Diet worked very well for Jesse.

It is very important to keep Ben's nail area clean and dry until it heals. Jesse broke a nail all the way back to his toe pad once, the vet removed the broken part and bandaged his foot. You can get some gauze and tape or vet wrap, perhaps a local pet store sells it. Vet wrap is sticky gauze, it sticks to itself. You'll want to cover the broken nail area with an antibiotic cream or ointment, in the states we have things like Neosporin, and a sterile pad or cotton, then use the gauze or vet wrap to tape it up. Tape it moderately snug, not tight enough to impair circulation but not loose enough to fall off. Of course Ben may 'pick' at his bandage, gotta do something to keep his little teeth off of it. You can try dabbing something that smells evil to him (but is non toxic) on the bandage or use an E-collar. Vicks Vapor Rub has always worked for my dogs, they hate the smell and won't touch it. Probably only have to keep his foot wrapped for a few days-perhaps a week, redo it every day or every other day, might want to ask the vet how often it should be done. Keep an eye on Ben's leg above the wrap, if you see ANY swelling or discoloration, remove the wrap and take Ben to the vet. It is critical to prevent infection from getting into his foot.

Some years ago, my sister-in-laws mother was over and saw Jesse. She exclaimed how pretty he was etc etc. Then said 'oh we should breed him to our dog at home! They both are all black and have long hair! What pretty puppies we'd have!' I have to say she really is a nice woman in many respects and will absolutely be there if you need her but..... Their dogs were all outdoor only dogs at the time and her black female was a cute mix who had skin problems! After picking my jaw up off the floor, I sweetly said 'too late, Jesse is already neutered, besides, no sense adding to the number of puppies looking for a good home now is there?' Once a gal asked me if I was going to breed Brittany because she was so pretty, I said oh no Brittany is spayed. The woman seemed very disappointed! I tried to tell her pups would not be likely to look like Brittany anyway but she did not seem convinced.

Abker, The agility instructor should be willing to work something out so that Abby can participate in agility training. He/she might suggest some heavy duty attention training first so that Abby will focus on you and ignore the other dogs. It can be done, best of luck to you and keep us updated!

Rowie, Thanks for posting all the photos. I had never seen a dobie before without a docked tail, I really like that long tail! I had no idea the tails would curl or hook like this. Beautiful natural dogs!

sigh.... Please don't forget to check any local shelters in your area! Some will have temperament tested dogs before they go up for adoption. Some also introduce dogs and cats to each other to determine if a dog appears cat aggressive. As a first time dog owner, you might want to consider a young adult or slightly older dog. Many are already housebroken, you can see exactly what coat type they have as an adult dog, their personality will be easier to predict etc. I say their personality will be easier to PREDICT because many/most dogs are stressed in shelters and may not exhibit true behaviour. You can however get a feel for what they are like, especially with a trained staff member helping you. You may also find a dog that is already spayed/neutered. If the shelter has a secure area that you can take the dog out to, you can see how the dog feels about staying near you or jogging along beside you. Don't expect perfection at this point but certainly if the dog sits down and glares at you, there's a clue. The Richmond VA SPCA has a web page featuring some dogs/cats. Here are some photos just to give you an idea of dogs that you can find at a shelter. [img]http://www.richmondspca.org/adopt/duoc.JPG[/img] This sweetie pie is Duo, a 1-year-old neutered brindle collie mix. He already knows "sit," "down" and "come." He looks forward to learning many more tricks at his new family's home. Duo is very friendly and has lots of energy. He is neutered and ready for adoption today [img]http://www.richmondspca.org/adopt/koyc.JPG[/img] This adorable pooch is Koy, and she is a spayed female, who is 1 years old. She is tan and white in color, housebroken, crate trained, and great with other dogs. She needs to live in a house with a high fence, so she can play ball with her owners outside. She loves to be a couch potato at times, too! If you need help locating shelters/resources in your area, I will be glad to help. If you do want a specific breed of dog, there's much homework to be done there. I will be glad to help you in any way I can. Kudos to you for wanting to learn before you actually get a dog.

I can't add to the advice already given but I do want to ask you to be VERY careful with Abby when you take her to agility. You MUST talk to your instructor and let them know you have some concerns that Abby 'might' be aggressive under certain circumstances. You MUST be proactive on this one, do not let Abby offleash if she shows aggression towards ANY other dog in the class. She is your responsibility. Your instructor might decide that private instruction before going into a group situation is best for Abby so she can learn in a less stressful environment. Candy was attacked twice by an English Shepherd in her first agility class, the second time it happened Candy was ready to really fight and I had to separate the dogs before either got hurt. I believe this is at least partly why now if another dog so much as mumbles at Candy, she flies in their face ready to fight. It also stresses her to have other dogs snarling at her as she is anticipating an attack. A dog that is attacked in a learning situation can be ruined for that type of training and affected in other areas as well. As you said, there is also the legal aspect to be concerned with. Other than that, there is the other owner aspect. I will NOT stand by while another dog attacks mine, if it's a minor spat that happens once, thats within normal. If it's an aggressive dog coming after mine, I get very angry and defensive too. If this dog is able to come after my dog a second time, the gloves are off and I WILL stop this dog from attacking in one way or another. Please don't take this wrong, I do know little spats will happen and usually no harm done. But no one should stand by and let their dog be attacked and ruined by another.

Susann, I looked at your web, photos and some of the movies. Beautiful dogs, lovely photos and great movies! I personally do not feel you fit the description of a miller or byb. I do feel you care quite a bit on how your dogs live, both now and down the road. Your replies to some pretty inflammatory remarks were calm and polite, kudos to you! Best of luck to you and all your dogs.

Just a little story about retractables. I used to use them on occaision. Took the dogs to the beach in NC. While unloading the car, I secured Jesse and Brittany to porch railings with their retractable leads. Yep, I know, not a wise move, I think the packaging even says don't do this. Within just a couple of minutes, I see both dogs heading dow the driveway towards the beach on their own! Trailing short lengths of leash... Each had easily snapped (or possibly chewed through) the leads, the bulk of the flexi was still on the porch railing. No harm done, they were in no danger but the moral is, not a good idea after all! haha. Jesse's flexi was for BIG dogs, probably weight up to about 100 lbs. He weighed in the low 70's at the time. Brittany's was the same and she weighed in the very low 60's.

haha Nancy B. you and I think a bit alike there. When I can no longer handle the 'big' dogs, I too like Paps. I actually fell in love with them over 25 years ago. I had gone to the Upper Marlboro Kennel Club show in MD with my aunt who had Shelties. I got 'drafted' into stewarding in the ring for Papillons. Too darned cute and chock full of personality. My favorite is the Belgian Sheepdog. That is all Jesse' fault. 8) When he is gone, I will probably look for another tho this time perhaps via rescue. That or I will go the the shelters and see which dog tells me they are the one for me.