Shenanigans

Where the devil are the parents with all these attacks happening? I'll be the first one to admit that GSDs do cause a good deal of bites, but I'd also like to say that a heck of a lot of GSDs are not trained and not bred well at all. You have one group that breeds GSD that aren't sound when it comes to being non-fearful, then you have another group who insists on breeding GSDs for their biting capabilities and little else. Somewhere down a very fine line down the middle you have some people breeding for a versatile dog who is sound and stable in termperament. That said, in every dog attack on a child I have investigated or seen, there was usually a teenaged dog or a senior dog involved and almost all of them had lack of parental supervision. No an 18 month old dog shouldn't bite a child for taking away their bone under any circumstances, but you're still dealing with a dog in it's terrible twos, a breed reknowned for having one heck of a time during those terrible twos, and for all we know, the child was warned by the adolescent tenfold. A two year old child cannot comprehend those warnings very well, so the parents MUST be there AT ALL TIMES to translate. I think when a family pet attacks a child, the parent or supervising adult should be held responsible (hows that for an unpopular opinion!). And for the record, my GSD has been around thousands of children from the time he was 12 months old, he has not looked at one cross eyed let alone bitten or had any cause for concern. In the past nine years he has made many children happy and I would not hesitate for a moment to put my own child near him. If you don't like the breed like some have suggested, then stay away from them, stick to your side of the playground and we'll stick to ours. [img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Shenanigans99/kingbanzai.jpg[/img]

My bed isn't big enough for two people and my two dogs. That said, when my hubby is out of town, my Newf will cuddle up to me. My GSD is not the cuddly sort, but will get in the bed the minute I get out of it in the morning, especially winters. They all know (hubby included) who is top bitch in the house so dominance is definitely not a problem here. However the GSD definitely does shoot some dirty looks when I move him to make the bed. He's his mommy's boy. lol

I think the point is that even if other dogs are being rude, the fact of the matter is, you have a powerhouse breed bred for dogfighting. A breed that is just on the tip of everyone's tongues to ban, you have to dots your i's and cross your t's to perfection. Much like a scenthound who turns off everything when sniffing or a sighthound who takes off like a bat out of hell after a squirril no matter how loudly you scream, or a sheltie nipping at the heels of running kids your dog has been bred to fight and it only takes a split second before it seriously injures another dog. This is why responsible sighthound owners make it routine to exercise their dogs inside fences, and scenthound owners on long lines, because instinct and selectively bred parts of instinct is far stronger and faster than any of us could read. It might be so that your dog never ever attacks another in it's lifetime, but is it a risk you're willing to take? Especially when there is so much at stake?

My dogs have never landed an intentional bite. My Newfoundland barely has a defensive bone in his body let alone offensive. My GSD however did confront an abusive exboyfriend of mine eight/nine years ago (it seems a lifetime ago). I had my GSD offlead at a dogpark which is absolutely huge. He was eating grass and sniffing around a good 100 feet away. The park was empty other than us and a few joggers and lo and behold my ex comes along, totally by fluke, but nevertheless he felt the need to exert some control over me. He came up and without so much a word grabbed my arm and tried to smack me. I yelled at him and was squirming and really not even thinking of my GSD at the time, however next thing I heard was my dog roaring and charging much like you'd see a lion coming in from the kill. Ex boyfriend backs off, my GSD places himself squarely in front of me and is advancing, I grab my GSD and attach his leash at which point he is at the end barking, growling being a very scary version of my dog. I tell exboyfriend to back off in not so polite terms or I'll loose my dog. He looks increduously at both of us and walks away. When he gets well out of sight, I basically collapse on the ground and my GSD washed away my tears. I never did see that exboyfriend again. Now that I'm a lot stronger and pissier, I would have loved for my GSD to see to it that that man was a castrati, but you can't turn back time. :wink:

They look fine to me. Mind you, I'm in Canada, but outside of metal chains, almost every lead I can think of in working and herding groups is some sort of thin nylon braid or another. I've seen some flat leads in in terrier, toy and some spaniels, but they're pretty foreign to me.

You're in a pickle though, the ears do go up and down, but from what I've learned with GSDs and Shelties is that once you have the ears set, don't touch them! GSDs in particular! Especially if they're going up and down. Some people recommend vitamin C to help with the ears...it also helps with low pasterns in my experience, I haven't had the opportunity to try it for ears though. But if you have to work medication into the ear, you have to. I would massage ever so gingerly, try not to disrupt the cartilidge. Then don't touch the ear at all unless you have to and if you can keep puppy from scratching them, that would be a big help too. Good luck!

My GSD takes aloofness to a whole new level, he's an outright snob with people he doesn't know. Unless he is doing therapy work, the person is older (usually the people we visit at therapy work) or the person is a child. Interestingly enough the people he usually snubs are some of the most boring superficial people in the world. My GSD has let nogoodniks know that they are not allow to approach me. Usually it just takes his serious look and raised hackles. He did growl once when a drunk was getting too familiar. My Newfoundland is pretty much friendly to everyone. He's less friendly to some people, but everyone gets a tail wag. I would definitely be worried if there was someone he didn't like. And definitely dogs can transmit their bad habits, there is almost always a general vibe, and if my GSD is on alert, my Newf will be too, it's pack behaviour, follow the superior. Lunging is a definite no no, no way, nope, nada, don'teventhinkaboutitdog! behaviour that you need to check asap.

Evil little kittens, you're pitties are being duped into a false sense of security. The minute they relax, kitty will go into ninja mode and kick your girl on her head. :) Can you tell I'm a dog person? We do actually have a cat, but he's more like a dog, I could call him right now and he'd come. I'm glad that you posted the pictures, and they're cute beyond reasoning. On the other hand I'm saddened by the fact that many pit bull people feel that they have to prove that their dog is not out to murder everyone it sees. I'm coming from a place where my breed (GSD) is sometimes generalised but no where near the extent of pit bulls. Nevertheless I guess it's all part in parcel of owning such a breed, you have to defend your dogs and your right to share your life with them and I agree completely with that. I just wish resources could be spent elsewhere. I suppose in time people will come to realise how ineffective generalisations actually are. I'm not counting it on being my lifetime though. :-?

I'm just curious as to how many people would buy from a breeder who refuses to show their dog in the AKC/CKC if the breeder seemed to know their stuff? Would they buy the dog as "working" quality, or pet quality or even breeding quality? Personally it's 60/40 as to breeders vs judges in the blame. It's not easy to be unpopular if you have a functioning breed specimin despite what the type du jour is, but ultimate you have to sleep at night and if one can sleep while their pups are walking on their pasterns, I wouldn't likely be buying a pup from them anytime too soon. I know my Newfoundland's breeder braves the show ring fairly often even though her dogs are definitely not the type that is winning. She will eventually place and win with her dogs but it takes some work, and you through a popular line or handler in there and she'll probably go home empty handed. That said, when I saw her dogs, I knew that they were sound, strong and her health record speaks far louder than most records in our area. She's a stubborn woman, but I'd take a breeding dog from her in an instant, even though it's not the type that's doing all the winning.

Scream, yell, pitch a bigger fit, rattle doors until one opens, but definitely have your friend do all in her power to have these dogs removed. I find if the SPCA isn't helpful, often a call from someone from the media asking about the case and why they haven't responded, will at the very least get an investigation. Good luck!

I have to admit with all the politics in the dog world, I have a hard time believing that any one breeder in any given breed is the universal epitomy of anything. lol I think if you are limiting your conversations to online (unless you travel all around, I can see the tangible restrictions of travel and phone costs to talk to people) you are missing out on a lot of responsible breeders. I can count scores of breeders in my two breeds alone who don't have a website, don't communicate via these webforums, and only really respond to specific questions about their dogs or dogs they can speak to via email, but would usually recommend you call them. I can imagine that with pit bulls people might be all the more cautious with whom they're talking to.

Sounds like you've been talking to some pretty irresponsible pit bull breeders. All of the breeders I've talked to regarding dog aggression, none of them work to emphasise it, and most will do their darndest to decrease it through their breeding programs. In fact, I was surprised when scanning the sites of responsible breeders seeing how many dogs of the same gender they have living in the same quarters, sleeping together etc. I think generalisations are dangerous, especially when people are generalising from the bad element.

I want to, but I really can't make it. I was hoping to go today, but I had to go get dog food in Alliston, and then bake a zillion cupcakes and mudpuddles for a street sale in my neighbourhood. I was hoping on bringing Shenanigans too. :(

I don't dislike small dogs, I actually have a Sheltie living with me right now. He's quite small and he can be noisy, but he's not. I think we're all pretty much complaining about irresponsible owners letting their wee ones get away with murder. I'm willing to bet that most participants in this thread have similar complaints about irresponsible machismo owners with pit bulls or various breeds they need to use to extend their idiocy!

My friend who grew up on a farm told me once of a naughty thing he did when he was a kid when his neighbour's dog would not stop barking. He greased up his hands and made a big ball of honey, peanut butter, molasses and corn syrup and pitched it to the dog. The dog spent the rest of the day licking the concoction from the roof of it's mouth he finally got some rest. Unfortunately it's a short lived solution and in the end not so good for the dog. Personally I'd like to take a rolled up newspaper and whack the owners with it. It's not fair that I should have to listen to their blinkin dog all day when I have three (on of my mom's shelties is staying with us) that people barely hear a peep from.

I remember one time, a Toy Manchester Terrier decided to have a go at Shenanigans. It took a nasty bite as his jowels and proceeded to hang off them growling the whole time. Shenanigans who could have ate the little guy just looked up to me pleadingly. The owners thought this was soooooo cute. They didn't think it was soooooo cute when I handed them the vet bill and instructed them that according to our bylaws, since my dog was on leash and theirs not, I was completely on legal ground to expect payment. I also made a report with Animal Control. Which they thought unnecessary, but I'm an equal opportunist, if a big dog had have bitten Shenanigans, I would have reported it, so same with a small one. I told them that had they been more responsible with their dog in preventing it from attacking others, then they wouldn't have this problem. Myself afterall with a GSD and Newfoundland have never had that problem! I just don't see why so many people (barring the other half of so many who properly train their wee dogs) think it's acceptable for their small dogs to behave atrociously. Maybe I'm just grouchy because I live near several toy breeds who's owners think it acceptable to put them out early in the morning and let bark for an hour straight.

You don't know what a pizza bone is? You simply haven't lived unless you tried one. ;) It's just a weird term for the crust of the pizza. *G*

That was an interesting article. I like seeing the differences in breeds. I grew up with Shelties and Border Collies. Most of them loved to chase anything that moved, I once had a Border Collie that caught a squirril, but then didn't know what to do with it, other than stand on it. The Shelties try as they might couldn't catch the squirrils, not quite as agile as those Border Collies. Then I got my GSD, who lets chippies run over him when he's sleeping, squirrils, deer, horses, chippies, foxes, birds...he couldn't care a less. However put a stray cat in front of him, and suddenly there is a prey drive, and though it's never been tested, I'm sure he'd go for a kill. He did go after one of my late cats when I wasn't home, he left a lot of superficial wounds-which was confusing to me in a way, he could have easily killed her, but something restrained him. I guess to an extent he had that inhibition expected of herding dogs, but he is a GSD too, which I think is a strange exception to some extent since shortly after they were developed for herding, they quickly had to find other jobs as modernisation came in and shepherding went out. My Newfoundland has about a prey drive for about ten feet, and unless it's a runaway piece of fruit, he doesn't think there's much of a point. He will prey shake his stuffies, but so far that is the extent of his prey drive that we've seen. However, the only time I've seen him frantically excited about an activity is when he was doing some water retrieves last year when he finally got the hang of swimming. Some of his siblings have killed snakes that like to hang around their runs much to my breeder's chagrin, of course being the wonderful people we are, my husband and I never hesitate to bring up the topic. ;)