Shenanigans

I feed raw, I have for five years now. My Newfoundland has been eating it all his life. My GSD since he was five. After a day of messy detox for my GSD, he's never had a problem with the diet. Likewise with my Newf though I didn't have to switch him over. I'm a strong believer of 'you are what you eat' so a healthy diet is tantamount to having healthy dogs. I think this can be accomplished through a high quality kibble, however for me that's a more expensive option, my dogs wouldn't enjoy it as much and I'm super happy with the results of raw and don't think I find a better diet! Just yesterday at the dog beach, everyone was absolutely amazed to learn that my GSD is ten, they all thought he was about five since he was out there running and paddling away like a madman. Everyone loved his gait and how effortlessly he covered ground and how he compared to several other dogs who were 7-9 years of age who were very stiff and sore. Often the first question out of the owner's mouth was 'What do you feed him??' I tell them, and while they look a little perplexed, they can't argue with the results. To me, that's my payoff for researching and preparing my dogs diets.

I'd place my money on a GSD/Lab mix. But of course, we all know that those two breeds never bite. :roll:

I'm personally for responsible breeding. That means, breeding to better a breed and being accountable for all lives you create for as long as they live. So if you're developing a breed, I personally think there is a certain set of standards that people need to follow if they're serious, rather than just going willy nilly, the same standards responsible breeders must face when breeding already established breeds. I have purebreds, both bought from extremely responsible breeders. I have bred litters before, all puppies still accounted for. I'm not going to begin to apologise for them since many of them have been outstanding contributions to their breed. As for mixed breeds and mutts, I love them, my BIL has this little scruffy guy name Petey, he actually reminds me of a hockey player for the Leafs since he's so scrappy and scruffy. His other dog is a belgian shepherd cross of some sort, and while he is suffering from all sorts of hip dysplasia and spinal degeneration, he's as sweet as sugar.

I think the only strange thing about the scenario is that the pretzel didn't vanish the moment it touched Goo's back. LOL

This is horrible, I'm usually not a crier, but this has my eyes watering, how can people be so flippin heartless. I'd personally want a psyche exam for all these kids and if they are indeed sociopaths, then necessary measures need to be taken, no ands ifs or buts about it! I'm an NDPer so I'm not a fan of cruel or unusual punishment. However, I can easily make an exception in this case. I think your punishment is right on!

[quote]I Loooooooooooooooooove those slip leads, my Samoyed has one and it's awesome, though I will be getting one of the martingale types. I also want to give agility a try, so it would be really useful for that. Though I didn't specify on leashes, I positively DROOL over leather leashes. Yum. [/quote] The solution, get more than one lead! LOL I know, easy to say since it's not my buck. I have several different leads, all collected through the years though, so the cost doesn't seem to hurt as much. I've just tried out my brand new and believe it or not, first xpen, now that I have one, I can't imagine how I ever managed to live without one!

I guess I just want to elaborate on your list. ;) With the xpen, I'd get one with a door, makes life all the more easier. They're having a great sale on them at national pet cage. The leash, I'd get a nylon one for a puppy, but your hands will thank you later for a nice leather one when you can spring for it. A slip leash is really handy to have too. I keep one in the car (in case I happen upon strays) and one at home. Very easy to just slip over the dog for an emergency outing. I never thought I'd like them, but I find those extenda leads really handy for my Newfoundland. We only use it when we're in a field or somewhere out in the open, he likes to follow his nose so his recall isn't great. Dishes, definitely stainless steel. I'd get two food dishes, I'd get a water bucket (stainless steel again) for the kitchen and I'd get a smaller one for his crate to be attached with a double d clip. Cleaning materials and solution. A decent vaccuum, masking tape, I have found the Mr. Clean Sponge amazing to remove slime and eye boogies. Extra towels and a non-skid mat for bathing. A good credit limit or savings in your bank account for emergencies. Some people use insurance, it's not very cost effective for my breeds though. I think that's it for now, it's fun shopping with other people's money. lol

[quote]With K, people say stuff that makes me really upset and I never know what to respond. Often because K is a "big, black dog" she is really discriminated against and many of the other owners will walk away from us. I remember just a few days ago a woman was walking her shih tzu and they saw me and K. The woman started talking to her DOG and calling K a "big meany who's gonna hurt you if we go near him". [/quote] Ugh, I hate that, I think it hits a little too close to home for me. A neighbour was walking up with her three kids and two of them were petting both dogs, however one was sticking close to Banzai. When his mother asked if she wanted to pet Shenanigans, he said no, because daddy told him that black people and black dogs are bad. Well did her face not turn red, me being interracial and a nice caramel colour could only look at her. Eventually she stumbled out with some poor excuse, but boy oh boy, does it ever bother me now that people don't like Shenanigans because he's a black dog. Poor baby. :(

[quote]Primmy, Primmy, Primmy............this is the internet, ANY ONE CAN SAY ANYTHING, it's proving it that is the hard part, [/quote] Indeed, I can say Shenanigans has several titles in French Ring. However unless they change the rules that the dog is allowed to just fling slime at the challenger, well I don't think my dog stands a chance of earning a title. However if I had no intentions of proving it, I could probably just as easily say so. The really illuminating item of this discussion is that I've offered dialogue to really discuss finding a solution to irresponsible breeders and owners, and Primrose rather spend the time being argumentative. Oh well, at least I tried.

[quote]Well, they can feel my dogs up if they want to but I think it only fair they buy them dinner first. [/quote] Just dinner? What tarty dogs you have! ;) But who am I to talk, Shenanigans will give out a grope for a cookie! [quote]Heck YES you can have chips! We lazy pit bull bums LOVE to share our chips with EVERYONE! *Passes Shenanigans some chips*[/quote] Ahhh much obliged, if any of you pit bums want to come over for BBQ, you're free to. Just bring black fly spray. *G*

I'm late, but she is such a sweetheart. Her little face looks like she's heartbroken. I'm glad to hear that she is safe and has a loving home, she'll be grinning in no time.

I don't have a pit, but could I have some chips? lol

[quote]Actually, I assume that people HAVE been "actively campaigning" against the passage of this law. That is, they have been writing letters and emailing each other and showing people pictures of cute pit bulls. I don't doubt the ability of the pit bull community to do that. [/quote] If this is what you consider campaigning, then we obviously have different views of it, unless of course, that was an attempt at sarcasm, which really has no place in a serious discussion about breed specific legislation. [quote]What I haven't seen much evidence of, however, is the willingness of the pit bull community to actually lobby for and make the kinds of changes that are necessary so that laws like this won't continue to be passed more and more places. That, is, to support real substantive change that will effectively address the problems that pit bulls have and cause, rather than just to try to convince people that pit bulls don't have or cause any problems. [/quote] Please share how you've been connected to the Boston Pit Bull community and substantiate anything other than online awareness of lack of movement to do proactive work. I can safely say that in many places I have travelled and called, there are local and not so local organisations working at a grass roots level that really don't have an online presence, so if all you're relying on is that, then it's not much to go on. [quote]As to the animal control budget in Boston, the law they just passed requires ALL pit bulls to be spayed/neutered (as well as to have large amounts of insurance coverage). So I guess enforcement authorities in Boston think that they can afford to pass/enforce a law that anticipates monitoring all pit bulls. And maybe they feel the way that I feel about my proposed law--so what if it is only sporadically enforced?[/quote] LOL A committee that thinks that it has enough money to enforce this law, well that wouldn't be the first time. Technically in my city one is not to leave snow on the front of their sidewalk for more than 24 hours after a snowfall, guess how much that is enforced? A case of biting off more than they can chew. [quote]If it is only enforced when some thug has seventeen dog aggressive pit bulls chained in a backyard and is breeding every bitch every six months and selling the puppies to drug dealers, wouldn't that still be a GOOD thing?[/quote] The thug with seventeen dog aggressive pit bulls and selling to drug dealers. I grew up in an inner city community. Animal control was right down the street. Every drug dealer had a pit bull at the time. There were several "breeders" in the community, along with dog fighting rings, we knew the existence of it, but do you think anyone could find it? Usually thugs involved in the drug trade are fairly good at hiding their activities from the law, and certainly animal control. And I'm willing to bet that without assistance from a SWAT team animal control is not about to waltz into any thug's operation as you describe it, and I don't blame them! If it stops one or two people from breeding a year is it really worth it? No, not in a city, not really, because other irresponsible breeders can easily pick up the slack. Thugs do a great job of networking with each other. And in the end, what's the penalty? If they go through all the trouble to stop some thug breeding nasty dogs, is there prison time? A fine? They take away his dogs? So what, he learns from his mistakes, moves more underground and starts all over again. Your solution can work fine in the short term, for one or two breeders, but what about the long term? What about when the thug realises that Dogos are a lot bigger, or Fila's are? Then what? Is Boston going to systematically ban each breed of dog based on the trend? As it currently stands I'm noticing a lot less pit bulls on the street and a lot more "exotic" breed being bandied about. No one has yet to provide a solution of how going after one or two irresponsible breeders a year in the city of Boston for not breeding registered dogs is in any way workable or going to put a dint in it's problem with irresponsible breeding and dog ownership. [quote]Wouldn't it beat (by a long shot) not having anything that one could do to stop that person which is (I guess) your proposal?... Or is the current situation just fine with you? [/quote] If you want to discuss this rationally, I'll ask that you refrain from these accusations veiled as questions. You know nothing of my views and to "guess" otherwise simply because someone doesn't immediately agree with you is inflammatory, but since I've been on the forums since acmepet was born, I shrug it off. Heaven's, I might even agree with you on solutions or want to build on them, but this method of "the only good defense is an offense" way of discussing is no way to encourage open ideals and work on a solution. And if that is your true goal, I think you should re-examine your method, because you've certainly done a lot to alienate people who could be working with you. People who offline are probably doing a lot of good for their breed and this problem that you say is so near and dear to you. People who don't automatically agree with you aren't necessarily dog fighters, people who believe in irresponsible breeding or ownership. I don't even own a pit bull and never have. However I have a problem with breed specific legislation because I do happen to have a breed (GSD) that is covered more often than not. Believe it or not, I don't have one magic solution to stopping irresponsible dog owners. I wish I did! Each community faces this problem in a unique way to them. In some rural communities it might be as simple as shutting down one or two breeders who are breeding dogs for fighting. In a large urban centre, I'd say tackling the problem from several workable approaches. Outreach, education, something with a little more teeth than a bylaw animal control has to enforce, getting rid of markets (such as drug dealers-it's funny, we're more concerned about the drug dealers dogs than we are the drug trade LOL) for irresponsibly bred dogs (and I say dogs as the trend seems to be moving away from pit bulls and into Dogos, Filas, Corsos and Neos). Having real penalties for irresponsibly bred dogs. Go to the state or province have some teeth in the law and not just a bylaw, make it enforced by the police in conjunction with animal control. Consult kennel clubs of all sorts to draft this legislation. They all seem like large undertakings and I'm sure far more expensive than shutting down one or two thugs a year, but I'm in this for the long haul. If we can have an [b]open discussion [/b]on solutions, I'd bet that much could be accomplished. Anyhow, this is turning into a book and I have dogs to exercise.

Me neither Crazy Canine, especially from someone who is so heck bent on labelling anyone who disagrees with her as rude. There's not much point in debating like that.

Wow indeed! I'd personally love to find that dog and shower him in cookies. The healing power of these creatures is beyond amazing!

This reminds me of a current political debate going on up here (election in a few days) PartyW says if you don't agree with our views on how to solve child pornography, you must support it. Parties, X, Y and Z....Whaaaaaa? You've got to be kidding, because we don't support your irrational solution to end child porn, we now support it??? Precisely how do you know primorse that people here haven't actively been campaigning against it, in addition to posting cute pictures? How do you know that pit bull owners haven't proactively been working on avoiding BSL? Your solution has some really big holes in it, the largest would be enforcement or irresponsibly bred and owned pit bulls. I don't know about Boston, but I'm pretty sure their animal control budget wouldn't allow for officers to go around making sure each pit bull they see is s/n. Not to mention of enforcing the penalties of not having an altered dog. 5, 10 years later, a reactive city council sees that the s/n aren't working and ban the breed anyways.

I can on some level understand the arguing. Sometimes it's an appropriate vent, and so I don't have much problems with it. Given that I can type at the speed of light, I know some arguments online I've been in have only taken moments, at the worst a couple of hours, so I'm not about to question why aren't people working on the problem as opposed to arguing. I don't have a pit bull, but I do work extensively on breed specific legislation in my city and country. When the Allstate scandal broke about 6 weeks ago, I was one of the first of many telephone calls. I'm on the Dog Legislation Council of Canada. I've written more letters than I can count and am currently in contact with a councillor in WA state about amending a bylaw on the table to avoid BSL...it's going very well I'm happy to say. I have reached out to many current pit bull owners who weren't being exactly responsible and shown many of them "the way" lol and I helped to prevent a breed ban in Canada's largest city. I'm willing to bet many of the people who are being criticised for arguing and posting cute pictures of their dogs (from the troll not you) have contributed similar efforts.

He's adorable. I'm partial to giant breeds, though have never really turned my eye to Saints. That said, if I could, I'd investigate adding him to my home. Best of luck to him finding a loving place. :)

Will have a contract outlining the care of their pup. Talks to other breeders and fanciers, stays in touch with their breed. In Canada they have to permanently identify their dog either through tattoo or microchip in order for it to be registered. Will register their dog with a reputable breed or kennel club! Is not afraid to ask questions or share information. Is rarely too busy to address the concern of a puppy owner. Will be more than proud to show off their achievements with their dogs in the dog world. This is a good thread.

[quote]Actually, alot of pet shops in Canada DO get their dogs from breeders. PJ's Pet Shop is an example...there are more.... I don't know which pet shops you are referring to Shenanigans, but a list would be great so that I know who to yell at the next time I go to a mall or store.[/quote] I never said they didn't Pitbulletta. I clearly said [quote]Pet stores in Canada get their dogs from puppy mills in Ontario (there's one in Pickering not too far away from me) Quebec, BC, just about every province where there is a market for them. They also get their dogs from puppymills in the US. [quote][color=red]They also get their dogs from irresponsible breeders[/color][/quote] [/quote] PJ's, Superpet, Luckypet, PetValu (the ones that sell puppies), apparently a Walmart. If you're involved in rescue and animal welfare in Canada, you'd know this. Heck, it's even been reported on CTV, CBC, CityTV every news channel I have access to. There's still legal fallout happening from a bust last year in the 905 region, and fortunately the fines are very steep. It's not jail time, but it's progress. Again, responsible breeders would never sell their dogs to pet stores, if they do, they're not responsible breeders, despite my dislike for issues being black and white, this is one area where it certainly is. Blasted formatting!

[quote]Oh..and Crazy Canine..just to let you know..alot of the pet shops in Canada do not take their dogs from puppy mills but in fact..from breeders...breeders that claim to be responsible and take great care in making sure their dogs come from respectable and healthy parents with good genes/lines whatever...so yeah..that's what keeps them in business here... [/quote] [color=red][b]Simply not true! [/b][/color] Pet stores in Canada get their dogs from puppy mills in Ontario (there's one in Pickering not too far away from me) Quebec, BC, just about every province where there is a market for them. They also get their dogs from puppymills in the US. They also get their dogs from irresponsible breeders. Responsible breeders would NOT send their dogs to a pet store. Responsible breeders will get have their membership revoked from most breed clubs, national, local and the Canadian Kennel Club if they sell to pet stores. Your assertion is just plain incorrect. [quote]but I hate people who feel they need to become "rude" instead of passionate...there's a difference..I don't know maybe that is just your idea of being passionate though... [/quote] Please point out where I have been rude, because I'd really like to know. If you're going to express an opinion on a public forum am I not allowed to disagree with you? If you want to talk about Kiwi's comments, go for it, I'm not her attorney though, I'm sure she can defend herself. Breeding responsibly is better than not I guess but answer me what the purpose in breeding is other than carrying on good lines? And what defines good lines anway? Is it structure? Working? Temperment? I think it should be all three otherwise its not acceptable. [/quote] Good structure, health, temperament, conformation, longevity, all of these are crucial for a good lineage and they need to be preserved and improved on continuously. Otherwise, I agree it's not acceptable. I'm known throughout the local dog community as having ridiculously high standards, so many people know that if they want a good breeder recommendation that I'm a good source for them if I'm familiar with the breed. I think in responsible breeding there is no such thing as too high a goal.

Oh come on pitbulletta, people are disagreeing with you, not attacking or jumping all over you. It's all been civil however passionate. People are disagreeing with me in a debate about gun control, I'm not taking it personally we all have our views. You needn't be so testy about comments of everyone agreeing on Dogomania. Personally I'm not out to convert anyone who is closed on the topic, I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall, however I will have my say and if it disagrees with yours than so be it, but don't assume that it's because people are holding up some status quo. If anything it's faulty and makes you look like your lashing out at people simply for disagreeing with you.

[quote]Sure..you might say that responsible breeders wouldn't let that happen..but what if you sell your dog to someone and they keep it...and then move halfway across the country..you lose track of those people...and one day they decide they can't keep the dog anymore..they're not going to transport it halfway across the country so you can have it back and rehouse it...no matter how nice and sincere they seemed when you sold off the puppy...turst me I've seen cases like this....or we wouldn't have shelters in the first place... [/quote] The point of being a responsible breeder is that you DON'T lose track of them. However I will concede that sometimes even the best laid out plans of a responsible breeder goes to heck. I know of one very responsible breeder, she kept track with the people, however they surrendered the dog to the shelter. The breeder found out, and offered to take the dog from the shelter. Afterall the shelter was putting down animals because they didn't have space, you think they'd be thrilled a responsible breeder was stepping up to the plate. However the shelter (it was in Etobicoke for that matter!) wouldn't return the dog. They kept it out of spite. She offered to pay for the veterinary fees, care and adoption fee just to get her dog back. But instead they were too interested in cutting off their noses to spite their face, and proved to me easily that they were not an organisation that was involved for the well being of dogs, but rather their own ego and not only did they lose a potential donation from me and my many contacts, they also lost potential donations from an entire breed club as the breeder they were being idiots with was the president. Fortunately with responsible breeders this doesn't happen very often, and certainly not often enough to end responsible breeding. I have known breeders who would have paid in a moment to have their dogs flown back across the country, if they found themselves in a situation where needed. I have one "puppy" (she's 9 now) who is out in NS if they called in five minutes and said I needed to pick her up now, I'd be out to Pearson in 30 minutes and hopping the next flight out east.

Why would you want a healthy line of stable strong dogs to die out? It only takes a few years to lose a line of really well bred dogs. I happen to hope that someday all we'll have is responsibly bred and trained dogs, because frankly, I don't want to live in a dogworld where all responsible breeding has ceased, stable healthy lines extinct and all that is left is irresponsible breeders. If extinguishing breeding altogether is what you want, then in 5, 10 years where are the dogs going to come from? In some breeds, breeding a bitch responsibly only means 4-6 years of which you might get 2-3 healthy litters. During the world wars many breeds centred in war zones were in danger of going extinct because breeding ceased. Like it or not, people want purebred dogs. I want my dogs from a responsible breeder to raise from puppyhood so I can have a reasonable expectation of what I'm getting. Responsible breeders do everything humanly possible to account for each and every puppy all through that dog's life. Not one of my puppies has ever ended up in a shelter or rescue. One was returned due to a serious illness from the owner. She was rehomed and living happily ever after. I have explicit demands in my contracts that if the owner cannot keep the dog, the dog MUST come back to me, or there will be penalties. I have started TWO breed rescues, I donate regularly to several and foster for several. I have voluntarily trained rescue dogs since I was in my teens. I also do homechecks for various rescues and breeders across the country, cross province transportation, training, socialisation and fundraising. I've educated thousands, directed thousands to either responsible breeders or shelters, lobbied against animal cruelty, irresponsible breeding and puppymills. I've sent highly in demand craft and art items to rescues across Canada and the US for raffle. So if someone wants to play who is more holier than thou, they've got their work cut out for them, and I'm only a quarter way through my life! The whole point of being responsible is that we take a great deal of pride in our dogs records, their wellbeing an a very hard job being very well done. Many of these organisations are surprised to learn that I have responsibly bred during my life, yet I'm helping dogs who have ended up in shelters. Most then realise that hey, not all responsible breeders are bad, maybe we shouldn't burn our bridges. So if you want to attack me for responsibly breeding dogs, you just remember who you're attacking and what efforts I have made to clean up big time after other people.

I don't get the show, I don't get animal planet. There is a show that they show on life here that is Canadians that follows Canadian show breeders around shows, trials, whelpings. It's only a half hour, but thankfully it features examples of responsible breeding. I do agree with responsible breeding personally. I used to responsibly breed Shelties and BCs. Every one of our dogs used for breeding was titled and certified, we had a case where we had to rehome one of our Sheltie puppies and we did. We screened the homes tightly. I've considered breeding again, and would I do a lot of things differently? You bet. I've learned a lot more in the time I haven't breeding. It was long enough ago that I was feeding kibble. LOL I wouldn't support irresponsible breeding in any way shape or form, even if that means not watching a program that promoted it. If you want to see the miracle of birth, if you form a relationship with a responsible breeder, I'm sure in time they'll allow you to assist at a whelping, an extra set of hands can be a lifesaver!