TDG

okay, i'll bite. seems to me like an obvious troll, but if anyone who reads this thread manages to get some valuable information out of it, it's at least not entirely useless. some reasons why it is a good thing to have your dog crate trained: * house training. a dog will (generally) not soil where he sleeps, and the more often you can PREVENT an accident indoors and praise elimination in the proper spot outside, the faster the dog will get the idea. it's so much easier to put the dog in the crate for any period of time you can't supervise than to clean up messes. * less frustration from destructive puppies in situations where you can't supervise them. you get mad every time your puppy destroys something valuable because you weren't watching him - my dog is comfortable in his crate, chewing on safe chew toys that are HIS. * i don't want to come home to an injured or dead dog. do you know what your dog could possibly get into when he has the run of the house completely unsupervised? chewed up electrical cords are one thing that comes to mind. unforeseen things like earthquakes (yes, i live in CA) also come to mind. see more about this under the last paragraph (travelling). * if your dog ever has to be hospitalized and he does not accept a crate/cage as a safe, secure place, it will stress him unnecessarily to be shut in one for a stay at the vet's office. there he won't be able to sleep on a couch or loveseat. the same goes for a trip to the groomer's or a boarding facility. * if you ever have to fly with your dog, it will be less stressful for him in a familiar carrier than in a "box" he is not familiar with. * dog sports/competitions (agility, flyball, dog camp etc. etc.). are you going to keep your dog on a leash all day? it's generally expected that your dog is used to a crate at such events. it's also much less stressful for him to be crated comfortably in HIS "den", away from the crowds. * travelling. it is much safer for a dog to travel in a crate in the car. i don't want my dog to come flying to the front and possibly through the windshield in an accident (a seatbelt harness in the back seat isn't always a solution). or worse, escape from a wrecked car and die running into traffic? it's also a familiar place to sleep in at hotels. and last but not least, a SAFE way to be rescued from a car wreck or unfamiliar surroundings in case of a fire or other disasters. do you think that fire fighters for example are going to deal with a frightened, possibly aggressive dog and risk getting bitten? if the dog is safely contained, they can just pick up the crate (or pull it out of a damaged car) and carry the dog to safety. if left home alone, most dogs will sleep almost the entire time anyway, so why would it matter if they sleep in a crate they like and are familiar with, or somewhere else?

maybe you just need to go back to square one. to me it sounds like you know what you are doing and it worked before. :) just taking the bone away entirely when he growls might send the wrong signal and he could stop using the growling as a warning and instead proceed to the next step - snapping. i highly recommend the book "the other end of the leash" by patricia mcconnell, it outlines the differences in human and canine communication really well. it could be helpful in your situation. :)

as long as you aren't subjecting him to strenuous exercise like long-distance running (especially on asphalt and other hard surfaces) or long hikes in difficult terrain etc., you will be fine. both exercise (as in walking) and play (as in off leash, playing fetch etc.) are important. it's not only the skeletal muscles that need conditioning, but also the cardiovascular system - which gets exercised when the dog's pulse and breathing rate increase from romping and playing. exercise requirements are a very individual thing, and as long as you don't do any heavy road work with your dog before he is old enough, there is no harm if you spend a lot of time with him outdoors. going by my own dogs i have owned in the past and own now, at 6 months none of them would have been happy with only a 1/2-hour walk daily, not even if that would include another dog to romp and play with.

[quote name='kendalyn']It is true that starter cultures such as Streptococcus Thermophilus and Lactobacillus Bulgaricus don't actually colonize the intestine, but they do pave the way for other microorganims. They are considered transient bacteria that provide a growing environment for other lactobacili or bifidobacteria. There is also some evidence that they boost the effectiveness of the immune system.[/quote] yep, starter cultures definitely do have their health benefits as well, but most cultured yogurts [b]only[/b] contain termophilus and bulgaricus and none of the colonizing probiotics, so you only get half the health benefits you could get by checking out which cultures are used in the first place. :) it's one little minor thing that can make quite a difference.

[quote name='wolfsoul']Enzyme supplements should be carefully used, because often they can cause pancreatitis. The pancreas breaks down enzymes, and when you give your dog supplements, the pancreas has a hard time breaking down the extra enzymes.[/quote] the pancreas does not break down enzymes, it [i]produces[/i] an enzyme, namely insulin, which regulates the blood glucose levels. personally i have never heard of any such thing as "enzyme oversupplementation".

i wouldn't rely too much on [i]any[/i] hard or semi-soft chew bone to keep all the teeth clean, no matter if rawhide, denta bone or "real" raw bones. they don't reach all the surfaces and you'll still have some areas that don't get cleaned thoroughly. "hard" stuff isn't always the key, i can attest to that from experiences with icky teeth in dogs who eat kibble that is supposed to keep their teeth clean. bones or no bones, personally i believe it's much more important that the proper enzymes and beneficial bacteria (probiotics) are present, which regulate the environment in the mouth. just like with humans, dogs are all different - some need a little extra help while others don't. i'm one of the folks who has to put a lot of effort into fighting plaque despite brushing my teeth 3 times a day, while my husband doesn't do much except brush twice a day. i've seen a difference in my dog since i started feeding cultured yogurt daily (not just starter cultures tho, since they don't survive the stomach to colonize in the intestine). a friend of mine has great results with wysong "dentatreat" powder on a rescue dog with massive dental problems who also had to have several extractions. the poor guy can't eat anything but soft foods and doesn't want to chew [i]anything[/i] either. :(

the yogurt shouldn't bother her, since it barely contains any lactose. for maximum benefit, you should make sure that it does not [i]only[/i] contain lactobacillus bulgaricus and streptococus thermophilus bacteria. these do not make it past the stomach alive and thus do not help to recolonize and do not have an influence on the digestive process. my old vet (old as in grandpa, been in practice for a long time) always recommends a few days on a diet of strictly yogurt and oatmeal (cooked with water) for dogs with intestinal upsets. i've always had good success with it.

if your dog has a stomach upset already, i wouldn't bother with a long transitioning period from the solid gold. after all you can't avoid something that has already happened. :( get some canned pumpkin (plain, not the pie filling kind) and switch her to canidae without any further transitioning. a supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes will help too. i'd also recommend giving a product like pet ag bene pac for a few days to replenish the beneficial bacteria in the gut - after a bout of diarrhea their levels will have dropped drastically too. keep in mind that the SG wolf cub has 375 kcal per cup and the canidae has 466 kcal per cup. start out with small amounts, equal to the amount of calories per meal your dog consumed during the time you fed both SG and the rice/beef mix. then increase the daily ration slowly until you reach target weight, and from there establish a maintenance ration to maintain weight.

i didn't like that test very much. :( - the page to pick a similar type of mixed breed dog doesn't have enough variety. it would be more accurate to let people pick 2 or more breeds from a text list. - the questionnaire on vaccinations suggests that the more vaccinations a dog has, the better. i am vehemently against over-vaccinating and avoid unnecessary vaccines as much as i can. what's the point to vax for rabies every year when the shot is good for 3 years, or to give heartworm prevention when it's not required? and no, lyme disease and bordetella vax are not necessary everywhere - and if it's not necessary i don't risk giving it. - the questionnaire on feeding has the options "always", "sometimes", "hardly ever" and "never", but something along the lines like "mostly" or another happy medium between "always" and "sometimes" is missing. - i wouldn't consider Pro Plan, ONE, Hill's Science Diet or Iams "super premium foods" and Dog Chow, Pedigree and Kibbles 'n Bits aren't "premium" either. true quality foods like Innova, Solid Gold, Wellness, Canidae etc. aren't even mentioned. - the "what kind of people food" section is missing a lot of good things that is okay for dogs to eat. - "what does __ chew on between meals" doesn't list raw bones. pretty much everyone should know that it isn't safe to feed cooked bones. - the section on car rides doesn't mention dog seat belts as an alternative to a carrier. while the result is somewhat accurate, i do not appreciate being told that i have "poor feeding practices" and "missing vaccines". i am told to provide teeth-cleaning chew bones. what's better for that than a nice, fresh lamb shank or knuckle bone - which i wasn't allowed to mention? :p definitely not the chew bones you can buy at the grocery store. sooo...nice test in general, but too biased towards what the mainstream dog food manufacturing giants want you to believe.

just like with many other "dog topics", i don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer to whether dog parks are good or bad. it depends far too much on too many individual factors in each individual case of dog and owner. one thing i'd like to reply to is those arguments that bring up "disease issues". i firmly believe that dogs who are "pampered" by their owners to an extent where they are barely ever exposed to pathogens, they will be a lot more susceptible to actually contracting parasites or diseases. the immune system [i]needs[/i] stimuli that cause a response in order to produce antibodies. a healthy, uncompromised immune system will fight off attacks and the dog will not become sick. personally i often take my dog to a local dog park, simply because of the fact that i live in a large city with very strict leash laws where i have no other opportunity to let my dog run off-leash. no other areas large enough to play fetch where the dog can run and utilize his full potential, which is definitely more than a 30 or 40 foot run across the back yard. it's also next to impossible to get him tired out just walking on foot, unless we are talking hikes of 10+ miles with plenty opportunity of running back and forth off leash. but i am lucky. the "regulars" at the park i go to are mostly very responsible dog owners and any person or dog getting out of line is quickly dealt with and either complies or is asked to leave. my dog is not dominant at all and very even tempered, so he doesn't freak out if another dog runs up to him too fast, if he gets mounted, if some other dog sniffs his but too long or whatever. this doesn't mean that he's playing "doormat" for anyone, but the doggie disagreements that do occur are solved the canine way and most people aren't even aware of the subtle body language that is used. i know that my dog is grateful for the opportunity to socialize, it's hard to miss the obvious signs of pure delight as we are getting closer to the park, enter and i finally take his leash off. especially when he can get enough other dogs interested in chasing him. :)

their poor ingredient quality completely aside, considering the fact that pro plan dry food products only contain between 13% and 22% "real" meat and the rest are grains, fillers and various rendered materials, i find them rather overpriced.

briards, i hope you are aware of the fact that nutrition is not a very large topic in veterinary school. whatever [b]is[/b] offered is generally sponsored by one of the corporate giants like hill's or purina, which both produce poor quality foods and make insane amounts of profits from selling them. very few veterinarians actually take an interest in nutritional topics and pursue them to a larger extent, and those who do mostly specialize in the topic for the benefit of their own patients, but they are few and far between. i don't know what you base the idea on that there are better vets in europe than in the US, but having points of reference for both sides of the atlantic, i can only say i highly doubt that statement. one example that immediately comes to mind is that most veterinarians in europe (as far as i am informed) still advocate full yearly vaccinations, where studies in the US have shown that intervals of 2-3 years are absolutely sufficient for most diseases and over-vaccination can often have very adverse health effects.

[quote name='briards']stay away from tins and cans of all sorts! those are the worst food you can feed, they contain 90% water and in the 10% of 'something there' they cotnain at least 30-40% preservatives[/quote] that is actually a pretty incorrect statement. i wonder where you got those numbers from. canned foods tend to contain a lot less preservatives (even the cheaper brands!!!) than dry foods, simply because the canning process sterilizes the food and results in a vacuum sealed environment, so preservatives aren't necessary. they also contain less flavorings because there is no need to disguise large amounts of grains as something "interesting" - the meaty consistency, whatever it contains, smells a lot more appealing all by itself already. moisture content ranges from about 74% in the high-quality products to about 82% in poor quality grovery store brands, but the average hovers at around 78% with both high and low quality products represented. canned foods (even the low-quality ones) tend to contain fresher, higher-quality ingredients than dry dog food. they almost always have a higher percentage of "real meat" than kibble (limited to a maximum of about 50% simply because otherwise the processing equipment clogs up). if someone is uneducated enough to feed their dog one of the poorer quality brands (which is sadly the majority of dog owners, those who aren't exactly dog enthusiasts), feeding a canned product is more likely to keep their pet healthy overall than feeding the kibble. poor quality kibble is loaded with bone meal (which often has high amounts of heavy metal contamination), poor quality fats like recycled restaurant grease, colorings, chemical additives and preservatives

i feed it in the same meal, mixed in. :) i know my dog probably doesn't care what he eats when, but i tend to give yogurt, oatmeal, fruit etc. in the morning (just because that's when i eat them too, yogurt with fresh fruits is a nice breakfast :)), and meats, vegetables etc. in the evening. it doesn't really matter though. some people say feed kibble and "people food" in different meals because they digest at different rates, but the same would hold true when a dog eats "prey" in the wild. the partially digested stomach content, organs, muscle meat, bones, cartilage and skin of prey animals digests at different rates as well. my experience is no stomach upsets and pretty uniform, firm stools. :)

eh, forgot something. keep in mind that addressing the real cause of the problem, not just the symptoms, will definitely take longer, but it should clear up the condition and not just the results of it. :) a lot of medications just address whatever part of the problem becomes obvious for some reason, but supporting and rebuilding the digestive system right where it's needed (with enzymes and probiotics, and an inhibitor like oxydrops if required) you are taking a complete approach to eliminate the underlying cause.

horsefeathers, i wish you all the best intrying, hopefully it will work out. i believe more in natural/holistic type approaches too than life-long administering of drugs like prednisone, antibiotics etc. i am not sure how long overall it will take to clear up things with the probiotic, since it depends on how quickly the beneficial bacteria can colonize and crowd out the "bad" ones. if it's just a digestive upset, it should work within 2-3 days or so, but if you have a dog that has taken antibiotics (which kill [b]all[/b] bacteria, good and bad), especially over a prolonged period of time, it might take a lot longer until they are reestablished and "doing their job". additional support from digestive enzymes will definitely speed things up. overall, my opinion is that just like different dogs require different training methods, they require different feeding methods as well - there is no "one size fits all". you can't just lump all of them together. the best you can do as an owner is to experiment and see what works best for your dog, and of course what you can afford (money [b]and[/b] time wise!). be it a quality kibble, canned food, home cooked or raw, or any combination. again, good luck and let me know how things are going!

good luck with the canidae, horsefeathers! :) it's definitely a quality product and not quite as expensive as the wellness. as for the bacteria overgrowth - the probiotics should help, but i don't know if one specific type only (acidophilus) will solve the problem. i'd definitely give it a try tho, if not, try a product that combines several different types. maybe you can also give oxy drops a try? here are two articles that mention them: [url=http://greatdanelady.com/articles/adult_feeding_program.htm]here (scroll down)[/url] and [url=http://greatdanelady.com/articles/why_are_oxydrops_different_than_bleach.htm]here[/url]. these articles were written specifically for a great dane page, but the feeding recommendations are definitely useful for any kind of dog, regardless of size or breed. linda is usually also happy to give support via email.

i'd also say contact them and ask if there has been a recent change. in addition to that, you might consider feeding them a supplement that contains digestive enzymes and probiotics - that usually fixes any digestive upsets pretty quickly. yogurt with live cultures works okay, but products like nupro or nzymes are a lot stronger. if you need the "big guns", there's a product called "bene bac" made by pet ag that's really good. as for the "chicken soup" food - i personally hate the name and the marketing hype that is associated with it, but i have heard of a lot of dogs who are doing really well on it.

you will only know by looking at the labels and checking the individual ingredients. just like with dry foods, there are horrible canned foods as well as really great ones. overall canned foods are more expensive than dry on a daily feeding cost basis, but they have far less preservatives since the canning process itself is a method of sterilizing and preserving. what kind of meat did you buy? human grade (which is generally okay but needs to be balanced with calcium), or a ground mix especially for pets? there are also good and bad ones. there are many ways of feeding a dog, dry food, canned food, home cooked or raw, or a mix of some or all of them. it's up to you and what you feel comfortable with, and of course mostly what your dog does well on. i used to feed dry with some canned as an "extra" but gave up on the canned since it's just another preprocessed product. these days i feed about 2/3 dry and 1/3 homemade, using any meat, vegetables, fruits, grains etc. that i also use for cooking "people meals".

[quote]Canidae is a better food than Wellness. If you break down the ingredients in each and look carefully at the first five (the most crucial), you will notice that in Canidae, 3 of the top 5 are from a meat source as compared to Wellness which only has 2.[/quote] it's not really that simple, since the dog food companies don't have to disclose amounts but only list ingredients in descending order by weight. you have no real way of knowing and can only assume that the first ingredient is most likely present in a higher (raw) weight proportion than the second and so on. [b]but[/b] what if the first and second (and maybe third etc.) ingredient are present in equal amounts? what if the first ingredient makes up 23% by weight, the second, third and fourth 20% each? or the first makes up 50% and the second 25% etc.? unless the manufacturer discloses it, there is no way we know. it is also not true that the [b]first 5[/b] are necessarily the main ingredients of a food. i've seen brands that have only 3 main ingredients, and others have 10 - it depends on the formulation of the food. you are far better off gauging the main ingredients by looking for the first source of fat or oil on the list. anything listed [b]before[/b] that, and including it, are the main components of the food. also pay attention to the guaranteed analysis, especially moisture content. canidae contains 24% protein, 14.5% fat, 4% fiber and 10% moisture, while wellness (super 5 chicken or lamb) contains 22% protein, 12% fat, 5% fiber and 11% moisture. if you really want a fair comparison, you'd have to do one converting the foods to a dry matter basis, but even then you are comparing 2 slightly different formulations. another concern is the type of meat or meat meals used. meat meals are generally ground from meat including bones. if fresh meat is added, it's at the discretion of the manufacturer if it's only meat, or meat with skin and bones is used. wellness for example states that their super 5 lamb mix contains deboned chicken, so the weight you have there is chicken meat and possibly skin, but no bones taking up any volume. this is an issue that needs to be taken into consideration when you look at the calcium and phosphorus levels in a food - e.g. high phosphorus levels put stress on the kidneys and might cause progressive kidney damage, especially in animals predisposed genetically. formulation is important when it comes to food sensivity issues. yes, a formula with several different meats and grains is more likely to cover the entire spectrum of essential and non essential amino acids, but if a dog can't tolerate chicken for example, wellness super 5 mix lamb is clearly the way to go. then there is the fact that canidae contains yeast, which is a highly nutritious supplement, but many dogs can not tolerate it. if a dog gains or loses weight on any particular food, you need to adjust the amount. some foods are just more calorie dense than others, you can't just continue feeding e.g. 2 cups of food B you just switched to if it is a completely different formulation than product A, of which you've fed 2 cups daily for a certain timespan. having to feed less generally indicates a more digestible product. personally i do not like to feed wellness much anymore because of the effects it has on some dog's teeth (tremendous tartar buildup). canidae on the other hand seems a little bland for my dog, he's not much interested in it if it is "kibble only" without any addition like yogurt, veggies etc. overall it does little good to compare brands of relatively similar quality (and granted, both canida and wellness are top of the line) without taking into consideration how well an individual dog does on each of them. personally i rotate between foods simply to bring a bit more variety into my dog's diet, but also to see how he does on different ones. if i don't keep trying out different ones, i won't know which works best for [b]my[/b] dog. i've already found out that he doesn't do as well on low-fat formulas for example, while other dogs don't do well at all on higher-fat formulas or generally foods that are too "rich". for us so far innova has been the food with the best results which we keep coming back to, but there are a few other brands i'd love to give a try to get a feel for them.

[quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']Actually, I only feed her treats especially made for dogs, I can never be too sure.[/quote] and you know those "treats especially made for dogs" are any better? :) of course it depends on the type you buy, but the most common ones people can pick up at any grocery store, like "beggin strips", "snausages" or "milk bones" are full of garbage, chemicals and sweeteners - especially the "moist, chewy" kinds. look at the ingredient lists of some of them. Canine Carry Outs Grilled Chick'n Strips Chewy Snacks for Dogs Wheat flour, water, chicken, [b]soybean meal[/b], [b]propylene glycol[/b], pregelatinized wheat flour, [b]animal fat (BHA used as a preservative)[/b], egg product, natural smoke flavor, salt, [b]titanium dioxide[/b], phosphoric acid, [b]potassium sorbate (used as a preservative), BHA (used as a preservative)[/b] Beggin' Strips Cheese & Bacon Flavor Ground wheat, [b]corn gluten meal[/b], wheat flour, ground yellow corn, [b]sugar[/b], water, glycerin, dried cheese powder, [b]meat[/b] (what kind of "meat"?????), [b]soybean meal[/b], [/b]hydrogenated starch hydrolysate[/b], bacon fat preserved with [b]BHA[/b], salt, sorbic acid (a preservative), [b]artificial flavor[/b], calcium propionate (a preservative), [b]glyceryl monostearate[/b], phosphoric acid, choline chloride, [b]added color (red 40, yellow 5, yellow 6, blue 2)[/b] Snausages in A Blanket Chewy Snacks for Dogs Soy flour, [b]corn syrup[/b], beef, wheat flour, pregelatinized wheat flour, water sufficient for processing, bacon, cheddar cheese, [b]propylene glycol[/b], [b]liver[/b] (what kind of "liver"?????), chicken by-product meal, calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, salt, [b]animal fat (BHA and citric acid used as preservatives)[/b], phosphoric acid, [b]soybean oil (BHA used as a preservative)[/b], [b]titanium dioxide[/b], garlic powder, sorbic acid (preservative), onion powder, natural flavor, potassium sorbate (preservative), [b]caramel color, yellow 6, yellow 5, red 40, BHA (preservative)[/b], citric acid (preservative) Milk-Bone Original Dog Treats Wheat flour, beef meal and [b]beef bone meal[/b] (contains a lot of lead), corn flour, [b]sugar[/b], [b]dried digest of poultry by-products, cooked bone marrow preserved with BHA, BHT and citric acid[/b], beef fat preserved with tocopherols, salt, brewers dried yeast, [b]artificial color (includes red 40)[/b], iron oxide (can't be absorbed by dogs btw.), sodium metabisulfite (dough conditioner), natural flavor rather than giving my dog stuff like that, i give baby carrots, apple slices, bits of leftover steak or chicken, cheese, low-salt crackers made for humans, unsalted/unsweetened popcorn and so on. one of my dog's favorite things are little cereal loops, like cheerios but made without sugar and from organic grains. whenever i actually [i]buy[/i] dog treats (hey, can't go shopping at the pet store without buying dog treats now, can you? ;)), i stick with "pure" products, like 100% freeze dried beef or chicken liver, lamb lung or quality biscuits like innova health bars.

i don't think that apples and broccoli are "bad" for dogs. there are a lot of half truths floating around on the internet and things tend to be hyped beyond reason a lot, so to me personally it sounds like unfounded rumors. i know leaves, seeds and roots of the apple tree can be toxic, but not the fruit. it's easily understandable how it could get hyped up as "apples being toxic" though. (highly reputable dog food manufacturers like OMH [wellness], natura [innova], timberwolf organics and others use apples in their products - i doubt this would be the case if there were any safety concerns. broccoli does contain isothiocyanate (aka mustard oil), which it is reported to be a general gastrointestinal irritant, but how well it is tolerated depends on the individual animal and the amounts you feed. the only reference i have ever heard to it actually being [b]toxic[/b] was in [i]cattle[/i], and even that only when fed a diet consisting of 25% and more broccoli for a [i]prolonged[/i] time.

aroura, by all means, feel free to use it. i'm always hoping that some people might read it and will stop being afraid to add some fresh things to their dog's food, even if they feed only kibble otherwise. my own dog gets about 2/3 high quality kibble and 1/3 fresh food (meats blanched unless i know it's for example organic or raised/butchered by someone i know). i would probably feed a completely homemade diet if it weren't for the fact that i live in a large city and am horrible about keeping my fridge stocked and organized. horsefeathers - only if it's a four-legged baby. :lol: i can take care of my dog and cats, but i'm not sure that i'd have the patience to be a human mom. lol

[quote name='Aroura']My question is, seeing as that many of the vitamins and minerals dogs need are actually within the bone itself, how do you get your dog adequete vitamins and minerals without artificial supplementation?[/quote] it's not as much vitamins that are in the bone as minerals, primarily calcium. calcium is needed by the body for various things, but it is also required to balance out the phosphorus ratio of meat and other high-phosphorus foods. if dogs don't get enough calcium, the body depeletes its own stock and withdraws it from the skeleton. if you feed a highly varied diet made from truly fresh ingredients (not just fresh as in "fresh from the store", since goods are often transported far), your dog is very likely to get along fine without extra supplementation. by paying attention to what is in which food, you can easily establish a balance. here's a "hot list list" with a few foods that contain a lot of nutrients: [b]vitamins[/b]: - vitamin C: green leafy vegetables, carrots, berries, tomatoes etc. - B vitamin complex: liver, brewers yeast - biotin: beef liver, brewers yeast, cheese, eggs, chicken breast meat, salmon - choline: egg yolks, beef, wheat germ, oats - inositol: wheat germ, brewers yeast, liver, brown rice, oats, vegetables - vitamin A/beta carotene: cod liver oil, liver, egg-yolk, carrots, dark green leafy vegetables, yellow/orange fruits - vitamin D: cod liver oil, fatty fish, liver, egg yolk, dark leafy vegetables - vitamin E: whole grains, wheat germ and wheat germ oil, avocado, beef, seafood, apples, carrots, celery [b]minerals[/b]: - calcium: dairy products (cottage cheese!), blackstrap molasses, fish - chloride: kelp, olives, tomatoes, celery - magnesium: dairy products, fish, meat and seafood, apples, blackstrap molasses, avocados, bananas, dark leafy vegetables, whole grains - phosphorus: meat, poultry, fish, eggs, bones - most dogs get too much instead of too little, often resulting in kidney damage - potassium: fruit, vegetables,whole grains, blackstrap molasses, fish - sodium: present in many foods, also best avoided in high amounts - sulfur: eggs, garlic, lettuce, cabbage [b]trace elements[/b]: - boron: honey, fresh fruit, green leafy vegetables - chromium: eggs, beef, whole grains, brewer's yeast, blackstrap molasses - cobalt: vegetables - copper: whole grain, liver, blackstrap molasses - iodine: eggs, seafood, kelp and other seaweed - iron: meat, poultry, fish, grains, fruits, vegetables - manganese: avocados, eggs, brown rice, whole grains, leafy greens - molybdenum: spinach, liver, whole grains, dark green leafy vegetables - selenium: whole grains - silicon: oats, alfalfa, leafy green vegetables, whole grains - zinc: muscle meat, poultry, seafood, grains, eggs, seeds, brewer's yeast so if you make sure your dog's diet includes some liver, eggs, brewers yeast (if it is tolerated, some dogs are allergic), wheat germ, kelp or fish and a good assortment of vegetables on a regular basis, you have it pretty much covered.

[quote name='Cassie'] This is in a book I have regarding feeding raw meat vs cooked meat. cooked meat contains; damaged amino acids/protein, damaged vitamins and minerals. Questionable bioavailability. Mutated trans-fats. No enzymes or antioxdants.[/quote] that is a pretty broad statement and easily misunderstood by anyone who does not know much about nutrition in general and has a halfway solid knowledge of dietetics. cassie, i didn't say this meaning that [b]you[/b] do not know, i mean "anyone" as in "anyone who comes across that particular statement taken out of context". yes, heat alters some nutrients and destroys or damages some of them, but it's far from the truth that cooked meat is of questionable bioavailability and devoid of nutrients. if it were true, any dog would keel over from malnutrition after a very short time if it never ate any raw meat, since the body uses protein not only for energy but also for building and maintaining muscle, hair, bone and organs and supporting other vital functions. about 50% of the dry body mass of a dog consists of protein which needs to be maintained. whether nutrients in any type of meat are destroyed by cooking depends on the cooking process itself. merely denaturing/coagulating protein will not make it useless to the body. a prolonged cooking process and/or high temperatures will though, while short, gentle cooking can often even make meat easier to digest by breaking down some of the bonds between individual amino acid chains. scrambled eggs vs. hard boiled eggs would be a suitable comparison. if you do not overcook meat at excessive temperatures, but only blanch it until it is "just done", you are not going to destroy much of the nutrient content but do a lot for food safety. this may not be as much of a concern if you can hunt or butcher your own meat, or buy from a local, completely trustworthy source - but personally i would [b]not[/b] trust anything that comes from a regular slaughterhouse/meat packing plant. i've seen the insides of some of them and was not exactly happy, especially after being used to european standards and then seeing the difference here in the US. but i digress... so back on track. add fruits and veggies (pulped raw or lightly steamed/blanched) and some [i]freshly ground[/i] flax seed (which is the best source of omega 3s aside from fish oil) and you are not going to do any worse by your dog than if you feed an entirely raw diet. fruits and vegetables are much more important sources of vitamins, enzymes and antioxidants than meat, but only really contribute if they are fresh and haven't been transported halfway across the world, sitting in warehouses and then in supermarkets for days. sometimes fresh-frozen produce is even the higher quality choice, because nutrients are preserved that way. if you want a cheap source of really fresh enzyme-dense material, grow your own wheat or barley grass or sprout alfalfa, barley or other grains. of course highly processed kibble is an entirely different chapter. most commercial products are made from already highly processed ingredients. :drinking: