odnarb

[quote name='courtnek']I posted this before, there have been RARE cases of dogs who have been vacinnated, and still carried the virus. "Typhoid Mary's" as it were... the animal still needs to be bitten, howsever...[/quote] I've never heard of an animal not ever developing the disease transmitting rabies, but I suppose it is possible. There HAVE been cases of inhalation rabies, though, so a bite isn't always necessary. It's been found in people spelunking in bat caves. Fortunately, pets don't typically go spelunking. You can also contract it from saliva in a wound. Rabid cattle often look like they are choking. People have exposed themselves by sticking their arms down the cow's throat trying to clear the airway. All it takes is a papercut...

[quote name='Tammy']It seems to be common practice here especially if the Animal Control is contacted. When that dog went after my son I took her straight to the vet and had her put down. There was no waiting. BUT in the case of an actual bite they want you to wait the 10 days to see if Rabies develops. Many times they will also just put the dog to sleep but still send the brain off for testing. I've seen this with dogs having their shots and those that don't. Tells me that they really don't trust rabies vaccination.[/quote] No vaccine is 100% The 10 day deal is that the virus is transmittable within 10 days of becoming symptomatic. While rabies can take months to incubate, they can only spread the disease within 10 days of breaking with it themselves.

Also, keep an eye on the NARA Garage Sale board. I often see used bite suits for sale there. [url]http://pub57.ezboard.com/bringsport[/url]

[quote name='cheekymunkee']AND one more thing, Hartagold & Odnarb, this is [b]NOT[/b] a [b]pit bull [/b]board. People here own many different breeds and may not be as familiar with our breeds (or the players) as we are. Yelling & cursing at them is not going to educate them, not every one here knows proper pit bull temperment because they do not own the breed. I don't know everything about every breed of dog & I don't expect them to know it either. Just like when Carla posted on the board like everyone should know who she is, that should have been a clue. Debby[/quote] The poster we were going back & forth with has a picture of two pit bulls in their sig, so I guess I wrongly assumed they were a pit bull owner. The person I originally quoted posts here and on another board I frequent, and plans to get an AmStaff. I figured the two above should be educated in proper pit bull temperament, but I guess I just have to stop assuming that people research the breed they own or plan to own.

[quote name='courtnek'] THIS is my whole issue with this. they should NOT. ANY ANY ANY ANY DOG CAN BITE...uner the right circumstances...[/quote] That is true, but for a pit bull with a PROPER temperament, those circumstances are inconceivable.

[quote name='__crazy_canine__'] You CANT blame the dog for the way it was bred or raised! They deserve a chance, even if you dont think so.[/quote] Deserve a chance to WHAT? Be the headline in a mauling incident???? This mindset is why the breed will be extinct due to BSL in 15 years or less :cry:

[quote name='__crazy_canine__'] I guess I understand what youre saying and it makes sense. A dog raised right wouldnt react violently in any situation and thats the way it should be.[/quote] Not raised right, a dog with a genetically PROPER temperament. Raising such a dog in a terrible way would never make such a dog attack a child for throwing rocks. [quote]...but I have one thing to say in defense of that. Say the owner had rescued the dog at an older age and had no control over what happened to it earlier in life. Can you really blame it on the dog then even though it may have been abused and had to defend itself in order for it to not be severly hurt or even killed? I know I couldnt blame a dog for some sick person and their abusive behaviour towards a poor dog. Sorry thats just my side to it, if you havent raised a dog from a puppy then you dont have control over its past and what effect it has on the dog.[/quote] If a pit bull has a genetically PROPER temperament, it doesn't matter. You can hack off its ears without anesthesia, toss it into a fighting pit, toss it on the grill, whack off a leg with an axe, beat it bloody with a bat, then have a little kid toss rocks at it, and it still won't bite!!!! That is what pit bull temperament is all about. The breed is in danger of government enduced extinction because people keep making pathetic excuses for dogs with terrible temperaments. Dogs like the one in the news story are getting the breed banned left and right. These dogs need to stop being bred, stop being sold, stop being rescued. And if you already have one, but can't keep it away from everyone but yourself 24/7, the dog needs to be euthanized, period. There is no room for error anymore, the fate of the breed is at stake. I am curious, why are so many people willing to excuse marginal and dangerous dogs?????? :WTF: :wallbash:

[quote name='HazelNutMeg']arg, this enrages me!! A dog with rocks being thrown at it, is likely to defend itself, pit bull or not.[/quote] A pit bull with a PROPER temperament would NOT attack a child for having rocks thrown at it, PERIOD. This is another example of making excuses for a dog with a dangerous temperament. [quote]I also hate how they say at the bottom about all the different Bully Breeds to be all Pit Bulls :roll: Yes, they are all bully breeds and with roughly the same background, but they are all different breeds! You line them up and you will be able to see the difference.[/quote] That's really open for debate, especially when it comes to the difference between the APBT & AST.

[quote name='Mei-Mei'] With all due respect, I don't agree with this. I know you have a lot of experience with pit bulls, but I don't see how this could be accurate. This may be like comparing apples and oranges, but if you take the example of twin human children raised by two different families, one abusive and one benign, the children may grow up with different personalities. Studies have been done to show that it's not all nature (genetics) or nurture that forms personality but a combination of both. I think that a pit bull with the proper temperment, when raised from puppyhood by an abusive person, can become out emotionally scathed. Now, if what you're saying is that a pit bull who has been horribly abused still should not be PEOPLE aggressive, well, yes, I agree with that. But I still believe the dog would be emotionally scarred. :-?[/quote] Perhaps "unscathed" is a bit harsh, as we can't sit down and have a counseling session with the dog and discuss feelings. However, I am SICK and TIRED of people making excuses for weak nerved dogs. Shy dogs, dogs that are afraid of men/brooms/keep right signs, dogs that growl, whatever. People like to blame these things on abuse, lack of socialization, etc, so they can justify adopting out, selling, or breeding them. The fact of the matter is, those dogs have crappy temperaments. Heck, one lady flat out told me once that her dog has a bad temperament. She even went as far as telling me about all of the related dogs that had bitten people (and were often still bred), a close relative that was tazered by police, etc. But now, a few years later, her dog has a U-CD and a few UKC agility titles. Now she calls the dog the "epitome of a working dog" and he's up for stud. I don't have a lot of respect for most APBT & AmStaff breeders anymore. She's typical. It's hard for me to be particularly nice to her when I see her, too. I'm flat out disgusted, and I considered her a friend. Anyway, take a look at this dog... [url]http://www.fortunecity.com/business/bull/1547/blossom.html[/url] This dog when through hell, yet she doesn't have any hang ups. Now, that's temperament, and that's what I'm talking about.

[quote name='pLaurent'] Fear aggression does take a lot of time and patience to work through, but when it's situational as in this case, and not genetic, I would think it would be workable.[/quote] Why do you think it is not genetic? A pit bull with a PROPER temperament would have come out of that fine. A pit bull with a proper temperament can be the victim of the most heinous atrocities and come out emotionally unscathed. This dog became fear aggressive because it's temperament was NOT up to par. The reason the breed is in trouble is because people excuse bad temperaments, blaming it on abuse, etc. What constitutes a good temperament anymore seems to be whether or not a dog bites people. Just because a dog doesn't bite people, doesn't mean it has a good temperament. When people start excusing these nervy dogs because they don't bite, occasionally one with a low bite threshhold pops up. And when that happens, the media has a hay day and BSL starts popping up. It is DEFINATELY genetic. Just as heritable as color and structure.

[quote name='Kat']Dogs can withstand physical interference to a higher extent than they can emotional interference. You know that your pets behaviour has changed and coupled with the bruising you should be speaking to a lawyer and su that place for negligence. :evil:[/quote] Not necessarily. The OP cliamed that the dog had a dentistry. Blood is drawn and often drugs are injected via the jugular. That can explain bruising around the neck. The dog being freaked out when being picked up could have been the fact that it takes time for anesthesia to metabolize, she could have still been wacked out from the drugs. If the dog had teeth pulled or something painful done, it might be on a narcotic, which could explain strange behavior several days later. Or she could be painful. Nothing that the OP posted is out of the realm of possibility for a dog that just had a teeth cleaning. Why are you so rush to recommend calling a lawyer and sue without knowing the facts? :roll:

[quote name='traumapom']I'm really hoping you can help me with this, as I am really concerned about my 6 year old pomeranian. She is a nervous little dog who is not comfortable with new people or vet visits. We just recently moved so we had to schedule a teeth cleaning/grooming with a new vet. (she gets a lion's cut every summer) She was her normal nervous self during the exam and they chose to muzzle her because she was snippy with the vet. We picked her up later that day to find a lot of bruising on her neck and a very scared dog. That was 4 days ago and she still hasn't recovered. She won't come out of her dog house except to eat or go to the bathroom, and she won't even go outside to do that. She has nipped at my husband a few times when he has made attempts to physically interact with her. I don't want to be bitten, so I just talk to her alot. I called the vet and they don't seem concerned. What do you think?[/quote] This was after the dentistry and lion cut? Did she have any teeth pulled? Is she on any medication? If so, what kind?

[quote name='Dog Lover']Grant is BIG PIMPIN'! :P I LOVE IT! :lol:[/quote] Somebody on another board insists that he is a gay flamenco dancer...

[img]http://odnarb.com/blingbling1.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/weightbench3.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/baddog.jpg[/img] [img]http://odnarb.com/wussinboots1.jpg[/img]

In all honesty, my feeling are mixed. An APBT with a proper, confidant temperament would not have become fear aggressive from simply being yelled at, berated, and ignored. There are APBTs that end up in shelters that have been starved, beaten and mutilated that still have nothing but a smile and a kiss for humanity. If it were his best buddy as he seems to have claimed, I think he would have worked with the dog. However, the dog had an improper temperament, and fear aggressive dogs are a HUGE liability for the breed. This is a tough one...

[quote name='primorse...'] Exactly. It sounds like this bitch is in season. She needs to go to the vet NOW (not the same vet who lied and claimed to have spayed her, of course) and get spayed. She will be pregnant within fifteen days if she isn't already pregnant. Getting spayed now will solve the problem. primrose[/quote] Dogs can be spayed and still go into heat. Sometimes a small amount of ovarian tissue is left behind. Even a small amount left behind can cause the dog to cycle like an intact bitch. But, obviously they cannot become pregnant, as they have no uterus.

[quote name='cheekymunkee']Like I posted, I have been "in the breed" as an owner for 46 years (my dad had APBT all of MY life) so is she has more time in the breed than ALL of us put together, she msut be older than the pope!! :lol: She may have experience with MORE dogs than all of us do but we (for the most part) aren't breeders nor do we work for them so that point is mute.[/quote] Where did I post a timeline? Did I say years? I said: [i]Oh please. Carla probably has more experience with the breed than everyone here with pit bulls combined.[/i] [quote]None of that is the point, who cares who has been where longer?? What difference does it make in relation to Primmy and her "love of the pit bull terrier"?? Debby[/quote] Because people are attacking her for her opinion 9that was a very valid one indeed), when she is one of the most knowledgeable people in the breed today. Somebody even insinuated that she WAS primmy! LMAO! Primmy gets under your skin, that's for sure. And her delivery isn't exactly great, either. But she's not completely off base either. The breed is in serious trouble, and something needs to be done to stop our downward spiral into government induced extinction. Posting pics of cute dogs, accusing other posters of being full of crap, and being in denial of the problems aren't going to solve things. There are a lot of very scary and dangerous pit bulls out there in the world today, and our insistance of what the ideal is isn't going to change that. The numbers of those scary dogs is increasing, and we NEED to find a way to stop it. If we don't the breed is doomed. And since I don't see a solution that everyone will agree on, I expect I will see a time in Grant's life where he is muzzled and walked on a three foot leash in public. At least, I hope we get a grandfather clause when the fit hits the shan.

[quote name='Mei-Mei'] I'm really curious to know how you can make this assumption. I've been here two years and I don't know everything about all the people on this forum. I mean, what else can you tell me about [b]EVERY, SINGLE, SOLITARY[/b]person who posts here? I don't doubt that Carla is extremely knowledgeable about the breed, but more experience than everyone here combined???? That's some assumption. Maybe it would be more politic to state that Carla is extremely familiar with the breed, rather than presuming the combined experience of all the pit bull owners on this board?[/quote] LOL, I'll still stand by it. And I know she's not going to toot her own horn, so I'll do it for her. LOL Carla is VERY well known in the breed, in the US and abroad, both from her contributions to the breed, and for being the kennel manager for one of the most respected breeders of AmStaffs on the planet. The attacks on Carla by other pit bull owners would be similar to a dinner theater troupe accusing Steven Spielberg of wanting to rid the world of actors.

[quote name='__crazy_canine__']Oh I realize, Odnarb, about these dogs because I read about them and thats how I got the pictures. Actually they were bred from Chinese Pugs and St. Bernards, although I find it hard to believe they got brindles from the pairing or that the size stayed the same as the pugs but I suppose after breeding and breeding you could change the size and coloring. These dogs are a "new breed" ( :roll: ) and are not pugs, as you may have thought! Thats the reason for them being called "Mini-Mastiffs" because they want to keep the breeds from getting mixed up. See Ive done my research! :D :wink:[/quote] Yeah, I REALLY don't think St. Bernard was the mix. LOL You know, I've never seen a brindle St. Bernard, but I see it is in the breed standard. Did you come across any pics of those?

[quote name='__crazy_canine__']Ok Im on a roll with brindle dog pictures! :lol: THese are brindle pugs BUT breeders have been trying to make them different and a new breed. They are now called Mini-Mastiffs.[/quote] Brindle was not a part of the Pug gene pool until recently. Most of the first ones were coming from pet stores, and had heads that looked amazingly reminiscent of a Boston or Frenchie :o No reputable Pug breeder will have brindles.

[quote name='SizzleDog']crazy canine - those GSDs remind me of Dutch Shepherds... another breed that is breathtaking in brindle: [img]http://www.pets4you.com/ABC/images/dutchshepherdlittle.jpg[/img][/quote] Here's a pic of Grant and some training buddies, a GSD and a Dutch Shepherd. [img]http://www.odnarb.com/3downstay.JPG[/img]

[quote name='Anonymous'] I doubt that would ever happen in our lifetime.[/quote] I give it 20 years or less.

[quote name='EmmeAndCharley']Shads.... the pit bull breed is in serious trouble? Well, I will believe that when people that I know (who work with pit bulls, rescue pit bulls, and own pitbulls) start telling me that.[/quote] You have got to be kidding me. This breed is being banned in various places (even entire countries). There are places in the US where your dog can be confiscated and killed. These places are increasing at a rate faster than BSL is being overturned. Getting insurance can be difficult, finding a rental can be difficult. Health is going to hell, temperament is going to hell. Seriously, what rock have you been living under?

[quote name='EmmeAndCharley'] Ugh! Another member of the "Primrose Pep Squad!" I should have known from the first posting. :roll:[/quote] Oh please. Carla probably has more experience with the breed than everyone here with pit bulls combined.

[quote name='Cassie']There was a girl in my area of the world who bought an APBT (well bred) just for the fact that they were supposed to be non human aggressive...the dog mauled her so bad she ended up in the hospital and she barely got away from her own dog by locking herself in her bathroom and yelling out her window. The scariest thing was the APBT due to having such powerful drives did not calm down at all and had to be shot when the police arrived. The dog was well loved and spoiled...it became top dog, when the owner did some thing the dog didn't approve of it took into her...the women started screaming and tried to run which in turn made the attack esculate. Possibly this owner could have ruined any dog...this was her first dog she had owned...but, the out come of the attack was by far worse than what she may have received from a breed without the full series of predatory motor patterns and the enhanced drives. [/quote] I am curious, what makes you think that this APBT in particular was "well bred?"