KP

Ah yes... I thought I recognized the name! That was just around the beginning of this year somewhere that happened...but[b] very well and forcefully fore shadowed[/b].....now that I'm remembering. These people were told quite bluntly not to get another dog because they couldn't control or train the one they had and even more so that they would find themselves giving these dogs to shelters in the near future. I'm sorry to say I'm not shocked at all. I do feel very sorry for the dogs. No use in looking for the thread[b][u]s[/u][/b] we are speaking of because they no longer exsist. I remember at least two of the threads blaitently against these people getting the second dog was eventually deleted. It was a couple pages long. I think one of the threads re-surfaced not too long ago actually and was terminated, because (same problem) they couldn't get the thread to go away if I remember right.

I've dealt plenty in aggression and I've dealt plenty in dominance...it is very clear to me at this point after reading all this that your dog is confused about his position in the "pack". As a unit I'm not so sure he knows where the pecking order stands and your dog is willing to challenge that. This is why the treats are not working. Your husband needs to get firm with Pauly...even if that means so much scruffing the (yes, I know) a fully grown, standard sized guy. You don't necissarily need to pull him completely off the ground....just give him a wake up call and let him know you mean business. I've owned plenty of dogs with this problem and every time...if you ignore it, you bet your beehind its gonna grow because someone has to take the position. That is how a "pack" works. That is pack nature, someone has to step up and be leader and pauly is trying to tell you that he needs more defined leadership. With a dog that is willing to take a dominant role ( I call this being the arguement starter or drama king or queen) such as you are seeing, they will use it to their advantage. If he senses fear from your husband, it will give Pauly the advantage and he will learn to use it for whatever he wants. Your husband has got to firm up, be stern and not back down in these cases. I have found that dogs with dominance or even aggression issues actually tend to seem happier and at times less stressed because they don't feel the need to fight for that role. They know someone else qualified for it has taken over and it helps. I think if your husband voices his opinion he will notice a good difference. Just give the correction that it takes to get him to back down and leave him be. Thats the way dogs correct eachother in a pack.

I highly recommend pet insurance. I think its very well worth it! We go through Pet Care insurance. I think just this year we've gotten back 3 checks....its saved us over $1000 this year. We have the Pet Care Gold plan. I highly recommend it. It relieves a lot of stress when something happens because you know you'll get almost all of it back. I almost went through VPI but they wouldn't return my request for pamphlet or some sort of printed information mailed to me through 3 phone requests or 3 different email requests and I never did recieve anything in the mail. I submitted a request through their website on an information request page 2 times aside from that as well. They wouldn't return my phone messeges either so I figured if they were that hard to get anything out of I didn't want to have to worry about getting my money back but I have heard good things about them and their price looks pretty good. For both my dogs I pay around $50 so I may switch since VPI sounds so much cheaper. I hate to leave Pet Care cause they have been great but we are going to be pinching pennies here shortly. I may go back later to them though.

My dogs are not allowed on the couches but they are allowed on our bed. My motto is....(including everything with dogs) "if its creating a problem for you or in some cases for anyone else then you need to re-think the situations and make the necissary changes, whatever they may be."

sounds good to me :D

If that is what people agree to then by contract they are bound to that agreement. If it were me I can understand you wanting to know for betterment of the breed (which I highly respect) as far as how these puppies grow and defects. I understand wanting the tests done for this but on the same token on the owners side, I also feel that if you are insisting these things have to be done they should be done on your own dime if its for [b]your[/b] own piece of mind and your [i][b]personal[/b][/i] breeding practice since more likely than not these people wouldn't have these tests performed for their own personal satisfaction. If these are things you (who technically doesn't own the dog) are insisting upon then I feel the owner should have a decision whether they want to have these tests done or not and it shouldn't be forced upon them to have the tests performed since they are the ones who have to pay for it.... but...if they agreed to have these tests done and pay for them themselves, by contract then well... thats your right. You more than likely haven't had a problem with that ever before though have you? Usually people who go out of their way to purchase a dog, finding a reputable breeder and spending the big bucks for one with good papers and guarantees are going to be the type of people who would like to know whether these dogs are the quality for which they spent. These types of things such as tests are only obligational if they are listed in the contract....and I'm sure they are. Most contracts are legal and binding. I would think this is very much legal as long as they agreed to it. Not attacking you or your practice in any of this Judy...just stating my opinion on some of it :wink: :D

I have done that too black with opposite reaction from the owner. They actually yelled at me for kneeing their dog in the chest or even pushing them off me! WTF! That gets under my skin sooooo bad. Especially when their dogs come in with wet and dirty paws or something and jump on me first thing. I had one person have her dog wrap his legs around my leg and pee on my ankle and I wasn't allowed to pull him off! How are these people allowed to have pets! It just amazes me.

I chose other because I couldn't choose both chained dogs and unneutered male. I feel that certain breeds do have more of a tendency to become aggressive if not raised properly (which actually could be any breed) BUT I feel more often than anything its for these reasons that dogs become dangerous. Chained or unneutured.... Pits I feel are just feared because of their powerful jaw. I don't feel it has much anything to do with them being seen as more aggressive. I feel most of these dogs are targeted because of their size. Look how many toy breeds are aggressive because of how they are raised yet you don't hear a thing about them and how they are more often than not aggressive.

[quote name='Horsefeathers!'] I don't let them just outright overwhelm anyone (jumping and lunging and all that, but that's not acceptable even where there are NO guests)[/quote] This is what I'm getting at. If you [b]can[/b] control your dogs from doing this and not just that but you [b]do[/b] control them from doing that then I think its fine to let them stay out. Its the people who feel their guest should put up with their dogs lunging and jumping at them, taking their things and being outright rude all together that I feel is wrong for any person to expect from their guest. Hands down, If you can't control your dog you bet your butt I'm not going to come into your home. You should at least be correcting them for it. I [b]expect[/b] my space to be respected when I go anywhere. I don't feel that just because I visit someone elses home that my rights to have respected space should get thrown out the window upon walking in their home or on their property. I wouldn't expect it from a man and I don't expect it from dogs or their owners. Now don't take it out of context either :) Like I said I looooove dogs. And, I even more so love well mannered dogs. First of all its not exactly the dogs that gets to me (so much, because they don't know better) its the owners that feel their dogs have a right to be rude to me in their house that really get under my skin. Its the people who are offended if I defend myself against their dog lunging and jumping inapproprately or being so extremely rude to me no matter how nice I am about it...even if I just block the dog, they get offended. Why?! I know a lot of people like this and it reeeeally bothers me. I don't expect eveyone to stick their dogs in another room just because they are dogs but if they can't be controlled then I think its only fair to the guest. I don't feel its mean or "punishing" a dog to stick them in another room before you allow someone to come in the home so that it/they don't stampeed the guest if thats in all probabilty going to happen. I think its respecting your guest. Not everyone who visits a home is going to know that home has rude dogs and yes, rude obnoxious dogs would keep me from visiting someones house no matter how much I love dogs. Just because someone has a child they don't wish to teach it manners doesn't mean I'm going to come to their house and allow it to hit and kick on me, say nasty things and do whatever while the parent just stands there and smiles adoringly. Its the same thing. Then again people with obnoxious dogs a lot of times have obnoxious kids. :-?

I think if you are going to be willing to own a dog you should make sure that it becomes a comfortable experience for everyone in the house (including company). If the dogs manners are so rude and rediculous that it intrudes on company or anyone else in the houses space without permission and comfort level being there, then I think you owe it to everyone to get the help you need to train the dog if you can't do it yourself. If you are going to take on the responsiblity of having a dog you should be responsible enough to at least teach it manners. I am absolutely nutso about dogs. I loooove dogs, I love to play with and hug dogs but I feel every dog should have manners. I don't care about excuses. If you have a dog I just feel that is a responsiblity that comes with having one. If you can't handle the responsiblity of that then I don't feel you should have one. Either that or crate it or close it off in another room where other people never have to be bothered by it. I see so many people complain about their dogs manners all the time but they aren't willing to do anything about it. I just say, "so, did you learn to read all by yourself then?"

HA HA HF...kind of like the..."oh we have company today! I just love showing new people how to drag their butts acrossed the carpet! Too bad I only remember to do this when we have company." :roll:

That was the first thing I thought. I'm P'ed off too!

Shelter Shows Off Dog Who Survived Compactor Animal May Have Survived Botched Euthanization POSTED: 3:39 PM EST December 11, 2003 UPDATED: 5:02 PM EST December 11, 2003 Cats may have nine lives, but one dog in New Jersey has at least two. Slideshow: Pictures Of The Lucky Dog At The Shelter First, this German shepherd-Lab mix was given what was supposed to be a lethal injection by animal-control officers in the town of Perth Amboy. Following the injection, the dog, which was thought to be dead, was put in a plastic bag and into a trash compactor. The dog survived the euthanasia procedure, woke up and clawed her way out of the bag. She was eventually found in a nearby landfill and is now in the care of a local animal shelter, recovering from her ordeal. "I took her off the animal control truck, she was visibly shaken," said Linda Blumig of Blumig Kennels. "But today was her best day so I'm allowing people to come and see her a little bit. I'm being very protective of her, so I felt that today was a good day because she was feeling better." FeedRoom Dog Rescued From Garbage Officials say they have received more than 50 calls from people interested in adopting the dog. "Obviously, it's a miracle," Middlesex County SPCA Officer Michael Iovine said. "The dog was euthanized with drugs, presumed dead, put into a plastic bag and then a trash compactor and compressed, and survived that. It's just amazing it lived through that whole mess." The SPCA is investigating whether Perth Amboy Animal Control Officer William Paul followed the procedures in attempting to put the dog down. The 5-year-old shepherd-Lab mix had been owned by a city woman, who brought the dog to the pound on Dec. 3 to be euthanized because she was moving to a place that did not allow pets, Iovine said. The dog was found in 5 feet of trash in the back of a garbage trailer Dec. 4 after apparently clawing through the plastic bag it had been placed in. City Police Director Michael Kohut said his department was investigating the incident as a personnel matter; the Animal Control Office is part of the Police Department. The SPCA is conducting its own inquiry. Civil penalties and disorderly persons charges could be brought if the SPCA finds negligence, Iovine said. The practice of placing a euthanized animal in a landfill is acceptable so long as the body is properly disposed of, authorities said. Iovine said Paul recalled giving the dog two shots -- one to sedate her and one to stop her heart -- then listening with a stethoscope for a heartbeat until he heard none. Paul has worked closely with the SPCA during his 20 years on the job, and there's never been a problem, Iovine said. Copyright 2003 by NBC10.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

I agree with Autumn. I was glad to see that she said to try everything in your power to rehabilitate an aggressive dog as an option. So many people put their aggressive dogs down without even trying to do anything. I really think that everything possible should be done before you take the last step in euthanizing a dog. I feel that a responsible owner should follow any stipulation that the breeders give in allowing someone to purchase their dog... However I do feel that it is rediculous for a breeder to make stipulations to a degree such as the type of food the dog must eat throughout its life span. If they want to go that far in the decision making then I feel they should just raise all the puppies they breed themselves [b]but if you agree to that then I feel you should abide by it.[/b] Its understandable for the yard and whether it becomes an indoors dog or out doors. I can see where they should have a right to decide those things as far as saftey and to a degree the quality of life but I think there is a line you have to draw somewhere in the upbrining. I think even the decision to spay or neuter crosses that line. I feel that should be the "owners" decision. I also feel as an owner that EVERY dog should be trained in basic obedience and should have manners. Nothing ticks me off more than an untrained dog. I've also been in the situation where my best friend had a basset and when I'd come in the door the thing would take a running leap into my stomach. I'd come in the house having to block him from doing this every single time. He would continually do it for about 10 minutes. This dog used to tick me off so bad. If I sat down he'd get up on the couch and chew on my hair and I'd have to keep pusihing him off me. My friend would get mad if I didn't let him just do it. She thought *I* was mean and he was only doing what made him happy...which "he should be able to do". We had many arguements about this. He would get in my purse and take things. Run around with my keys and if I took them away she'd get ticked. People like that should never have a dog. I lived with a guy who used to let his untrained dog run offleash. I used to get SOOO mad because he wouldn't let me train him. He thought he should be free to make his own decisions and do what makes him happy. I asked how he would feel about that if he took off for the busy highway about 200 yards away and got hit and killed. He said, "well at least he'll die happy." Then of course he never could understand why his dog never bonded to him :roll: I still think there should be testing and licensing to enable people to own a dog. If you don't pass the test you can't have a dog. Not just anyone should be able to have one.

I completely agree autumn :D

what do you think?? I'd also be interested to know why on your decision. Do you feel the exibit judgement yet don't think?

You know what now that I'm re-reading it again I'm going back to my first thoughts...I don't think that this guy is being fair about this deal from what you've explained. I wouldn't do it. It does seem like a scam...very fishy. Steer clear.

Thats what I thought at first but I think I understand it now. I think what he means is its basically a deposit so that he can't weazel out of it at last minute and decide against getting the dog. Therefore if the dog he wants is available he has to buy it regardless of the price or lose the money. If I'm wrong....I'd say stay away from the breeder. Its not a fair deal...

[quote name='Black GSD'][quote name='KP']As far as the destruction of a house would go, there are always ways around it. Thats what they make crates for....till they can be trusted without the use of them.[/quote] You're right, that IS what crates are for. BUT, some dogs can NEVER be trusted loose in the house all day. (Unless they are 15yo, blind, deaf, and have no teeth. :wink: )[/quote] I will definately agree with that. Some dogs have to be crated or contained when alone their whole life...for their own safety of course. I'm amazed at how many people think its cruel to crate. To me thats like saying its cruel to leave an unmonitored baby in a kitchen outside its high chair or playpen with boiling water on the stove. There are few dogs who don't take to the crate...those who so severe they don't take to the crate or containment, in my opinion, need things to help lower their anxiety. There are over the counter supplements such as Rescue Remedy (which are not drugs by the way, but are just as effective) that can be used for this.

I personally am partial to corgi's. I looove them. We talked about getting one for the longest time. As far as the destruction of a house would go, there are always ways around it. Thats what they make crates for....till they can be trusted without the use of them.

My dobermann has what I call a helicopter tail. That thing is always swingin crazy. You can tell she is a very happy dog. I have never seen that tail not waggin, high and proud I might add. Its a leathal weapon practically lol. As nice as it would be to not have the entire coffee table cleared everytime someone walked in the front door, I think I'd miss her tail. It gives her so much character. For her it doesn't seem to bother her when she knocks it into stuff. Haven't had any injuries yet. Then again this girl has an extremely high tolerance for pain. She will run full speed and hit her head on the bottom of our oak coffee table and it doesn't phase her a bit. I swear she feels no pain. She plays hard. She's so ruff!

Actually, I've found disputing information about the history of dogs and wolves in all sorts of places. There is a book "The Company of Wolves" which says the dog was originally thought to have descended either from the coyote or the wolf, but genetic research finally concluded recently that the wolf is the ancestor of the dog. The genetics of the wolf and dog are so close that it is not even possible to ascertain with any degree of certainty whether a wolf is a hybrid or pure in the wild any more. This is one of the big problems facing the people who want to reintroduce wolves back to the wild in areas where the wolf has been wiped out -- the endangered species law protects the genetically pure wolf but does not protect the wolf mixed with any dog blood. Bottom line is that it's seems to be virtually impossible to tell. And, yes, dog/wolf matings do produce fertile offspring.

[quote name='DogPaddle'][quote]"It would be like making declawing a cat an act of cruelty," she said. [/quote] I would call amputating digits and the first nuckle an act of cruelty. Cats can be taught what to claw and what not to claw, its just differnet from training dogs. I think that if you have done everything else to teach a cat not to claw your furniture and its declaw or get rid of the cat than go ahead and declaw but it is an extreme thing. [/quote] I would definately agree with this dogpaddle. They amputate I believe past the first knuckle. Declawing a cat can be very painful for them. Not just during the healing period but for a long time. Possibly their whole lives. They get the "phantom claws" (I can't remember exactly what they are called) but its like when a person has their limb amputated yet they still feel like they still have it. Its very common....and painful.

In dog parks, most dogs are usually free to run and there are a lot of stupid or ignorant people who take their fear/aggressive/not always well socialized/not always trained well dogs and let them run free. Also, people a lot of times forget that dogs may get along with other dogs or people regularly but that is not to say they will get along with every dog/person or become defensive for one reason or another. No matter how nice you are you don't get along with or feel comfortable around every other person you come in contact with. Dogs are no different. To put animals in an environment with this much freedom...especially if these dogs visit regularly and could become territorial just isn't safe for anyone.

I personally don't agree with cropping or docking. I don't feel that its necissary to do because there is no medical reason found for doing it. It does look awsome on most breeds when done correctly but...I dunno it just doesn't seem worth it. I feel most breeds especially dobermanns are more accepted with the natural look...