TDG

all lifestages foods are perfectly fine. they are labeled as "all lifestages" because they contain enough nutrients to feed growing puppies, pregnant and lactating bitches and adult dogs. the extra nutrients growing puppies need they will get from the increased amount of food they eat per pound of body weight. the reason we even [i]have[/i] different lifestage foods is because when commercial dry food became more widely available and people added less table scraps, it turned out that the early formulas were not nutritious enough to support growing puppies. instead of increasing the overall quality of the formulas, manufacturers invented puppy formulas. then they found out that the nutrient density in puppy foods made large breed puppies grow too fast and caused orthopedic problems. for the pet food industry, the next logical step was to invent "large breed puppy" formulas. ultimately, it all boils down to marketing. if a company has 10 different bags of food on the shelf, the chance of anyone buying one of theirs is so much higher than a company that just has one or two products. the bottom line is that a good quality adult food, even if it isn't specifically sold as an "all lifestages" formula (like innova adult for example) is suitable to feed to any puppies regardless of breed size, as well as adults. these foods will usually have the AAFCO nutritional adequacy statement of "suitable for all lifestages" in small print on the bag somewhere. if a food only has the AAFCO statement "suitable for maintenance", i would hesitate to even feed it to an adult dog and examine the guaranteed analysis and ingredient list very carefully. that vet has not much of a clue about nutrition at all, which is very common. vets generally aren't taught all that much about nutrition at school and what little they learn is mostly provided by the large pet food manufacturers.

have you been looking into glucosamine supplements? there is a number of good ones out there and i've heard of good results from many people. pain medication, especially rimadyl - which is often prescribed - can have severe adverse reactions, which you need to be aware of. please check out this site: [url]http://dogsadversereactions.com/nsaid/nsaidspage.html[/url] you should also give her a high quality fish oil supplement, which will help the body fight inflammation and stimulates the immune system. as for her teeth problems, they need to be fixed as soon as possible, just changing foods will not improve the situation. you didn't post any specifics on that issue, so i can't be of more help, but you need to know that periodontal disease carries toxins into the bloodstream, where they can affect all areas of the body, including kidney and heart. the sooner you get the teeth and gums treated, the less your dogs will be exposed to these toxins. a small dog is [b]not[/b] a senior at 8 years of age. if they are in good health, they can easily reach a life span of 16 years and more. my wirehaired dachshund (who now lives with my parents) is over 13 years old and just started showing the first signs of slowing down about a year ago.

advantage stays on the surface of the skin, bonding with the top layer of skin cells. when these cells are removed (harsher varieties of shampoos etc.), the pesticide is gone too. the advantage (pardon the pun) is that you can reapply it as needed, up to once weekly during heavy infestations. frontline is absorbed into the hair follicles and sebaceous glands. depending on how active they are, it's secreted out faster or slower along with the oils. it isn't removed as easily by shampooing as advantage because it sits at the bottom of the follicles and in the glands and not directly on the surface of the skin. fleas don't have to bite the animal when either advantage or frontline are applied - both act on contact, but time frames are slightly different. personally i haven't had any luck with frontline either even tho i'd prefer using it because of the added tick protection. i'm in southern california, where the problem exists year-round. so, i'm in the advantage camp - one dog, five cats (which is why i can't use advantix, it's toxic for cats), and everyone is flea free. :)

what's all the hoopla about? i just looked up the website of the breeder and what she has to say about her breeding program, [url]http://www.marienburg-dobermans.com/section1.htm[/url] over 150 champions in 40 years? i agree that at first glance that looks to be a big number, but if you calculate it based on an average number of 8 pups in a litter, and assume even just 1/4 of the puppies per litter will turn out champion material, that's still just 1.8 litters per year - and from my understanding this woman also works together with another breeder. from the site: [i]In 1962 I added to my Doberman family and had my first litter in 1963 from my first female who would later become a champion named, Zigeuner's Fiesta. From this first litter were whelped two who would become the first Marienburg Champions, Dorian and Gretchen. ... Although not prolific her last puppy she produced became the top producer, Ch. Marienburg's Only One (dam of 15 champions) when bred to Ch. Marienburg's Red Baron. ... Sun Hawk sired 85 American Champions, was number one Doberman during 1975 and 1976. ... Dexter sired 30 American Champions and died at 12+ years in 1997. ... Teller sired 19 American Champions. Among these was Ch. Aquarius Damien of Ravenswood who won 50 + Best in Shows and DPCA Best of Breed and two red Champion females which I kept. They were Ch. Marienburg's Love Potion who is the current dam of 9 champions and still more who will finish their championship and Ch. Marienburg's Coral Pendant. ... Love Potion was bred to Luthor as well and gave me a wonderful litter in which one is finished and two are close to finishing.[/i]

yeah i agree, give them some time before you apply something else. advantage is not absorbed into the bloodstream but stays ont he top layer of the skin, but still.

i do :) it's one and the same product for dogs and kitties, just packaged differently. i buy the largest tubes of advantage (for dogs over 50 lbs i think?) and divide them up between my dog and 5 kitties. the minimum effective dose noted by bayer is 0.1 ml per kilogram (2.2 lbs) body weight, which has been enough at my household.

yep, eagle pack is good food as well. :) the amount of live cultures in the kibble isn't going to have a real therapeutic effect tho, it will be much too low. i recommend you still use a supplement. :)

[quote name='ObedienceGrrl']They eat at 8:00 am *snip* I feed everyone shortly after. Usually around 5:00 or 5:30. *snip* So do you suggest that I feed them later at night? We go to bed around 10:00.*snip*[/quote] i think maybe you would see an improvement if you stuck with the schedule you are on now but feed a snack before bedtime.

[quote name='desertlady']I might like to try this, mixing fresh with Evo instead of Innova/Evo. Can you tell me what vegies, and should all veggies be cooked and all meat be raw? What are meat choices? Can I just stick with one meat (stew beef, for example?) ... do you really feed raw poultry and pork ... from a human standpoint this feels scary ... sorry about all the questions! Refer me to a link or book if you want, I just don't know where to start.[/quote] i feed a home prepared diet, but am not a "barf" follower, so some of my opinions may be somewhat unpopular with those who are, but here goes: you can add meat or veggies either raw or cooked, whichever you prefer. just keep in mind that dogs do not have the same ability to break down the cell walls of plant based foods, so you need to help - either by grinding raw fruits and veggies to a fine pulp in a blender, juicer or food processer or by steaming and mashing them up. keep an eye on your dog's stool, if you see undigested bits of fruits and veggies, they will need to be broken down into smaller particles. your meat choices are anything you can think of and whatever is available to you. beef, chicken, turkey, lamb/mutton and pork are the most mainstream things, but if you can get your hands on goat, fish, buffalo, duck, kangaroo or whatever else, you can feed that as well. if you feed evo and just want to add some fresh meat, you can stick with one type without problems. just be aware that beef may not be the most ideal for your individual dog. you'll have to see what works. my own dog does better on (and prefers taste wise) turkey, beef and lamb over chicken and pork. he tends to get loose stools from pork more, so i have to feed smaller portions to avoid trouble. and yes, i do feed raw poultry and pork. it's not an issue for most dogs since their digestive system is designed for it, but fromt he human standpoint you will still have to follow the basic rules of food safety. that shouldn't be a problem tho. one of the best books currently on the market is "K9 Kitchen Your Dogs' Diet: The Truth Behind The Hype" by by monica segal. the reason why i like it so much is the author not being biased towards any particular way of feeding a home prepared diet and rationally discusses both pros and cons of raw and cooked foods. she believes that each dog should be fed as an individual, not just as member of a species - which i find very important. this means that the diet should be tailored to the individual dog's needs instead of just offering guideslines on how to feed "a dog". it also has nutritional values for some raw meaty bones listed and offers a good number of recipes. it's available from sitstay.com for $23.90.

one thing i really like is that the calcium content is high enough so that people can include a good amount of fresh foods (meats, eggs, cottage cheese, veggies etc.) without having to worry about supplementing extra calcium. if you feed for example one cup of evo per day and add 7oz of boneless raw meat and 3.5 oz of coked broccoli, you aren't even making a dent in the calcium reserve. hopefully this will make people more comfortable to add at least some unprocessed food to the diet.

for those of you interested in helping out a mixed breed site: [url]http://www.mixedbreeddog.info[/url]

it's a great product, i'm very happy natura came out with another excellent food. it'll put the pressure on the entire industry to manufacture better stuff. :)

i second the suggestion of giving a snack in between, but wouldn't recommend to give high amounts of grain fibers like bran, since in excess amounts it can interfere with nutrient absorption. a better quality food is very likely to solve the problem, and CA natural is one of the best quality ones on the market.

are they just vomiting bile? how many times per day are they fed? as for a food choice - i'd go with something with a very simple formula and highly digestible. maybe even try a chicken-free food, since the chicken may very well be a culprit. personally i'd give california natural lamb and rice a try if you can get it, since it is free of any extras that might cause problems - right down to leaving out things like flax seed and kelp. yogurt is a good thing, but they might benefit from a more concentrated probiotic supplement. for an effective therapeutic dose, you need to administer several billions of organisms daily, which a yogurt can't do. look for a good human grade acidophilus supplement that has no sucrose, lactose, artificial color, preservatives, yeast, wheat, rice or soy. a good product that is relatively easy to find and not ridiculously expensive is NOW brand acidophilus 4 X 6 powder. 3 oz cost about $15 and the daily dose is 1/4 teaspoon, so not a whole lot is needed. you may find it for less at some online sources.

i thought this might be of interest to all of you who have pets posted on catster and dogster: as you may have seen, they recently added a classified ads section. which is nice and dandy for pet related products and services, but i do not think that a community like dogster should promote irresponsible breeding. case in point: [url]http://www.dogster.com/clsfds/?ad=55[/url] that dog was purchased from a pet store and i do not think the owner has any business breeding. please let the people at dogster know how you feel about this. [url]http://www.dogster.com/contact.php[/url] i for one am going to remove all my pets from the sites if they refuse to prohibit ads related to breeding services and also told them in that case i will not do any business with any companies or individuals who advertise their products or services on dogster and catster.

some types are, but they don't have enough cultures to make a difference with an existing health problem. you need something much higher-dosed, such as for example a human acidophilus supplement in capsule form.

the costco private label is manufactured by diamond. it's better than grocery store brands, but i would [b]not[/b] call it a high quality food.

cliff - please make sure to not only treat the symptoms of the ear problems, but also the underlying cause. there is something that causes itching and odor and you need to get to the bottom of it, otherwise you are only giving temporary relief and the problem will keep returning. in most cases, a change in what you are feeding and giving some supplements to boost the immune sysem can make a big difference already. what's your dog currently eating?

diet change usually helps quite a bit. but don't forget that all dogs are individuals and react different to different things. bad breath and an unpleasant skin odor are signs that something is wrong. it might well clear up with a better diet alone, but if it doesn't, i'd investigate food ingredients for possible sensitivities or allergies. it doesn't necessarily have to have anything with the quality of food either - case in point: i fed my own dog (who otherwise eats a home prepared diet with raw and cooked items) innova evo as one of his two daily meals for 3 days while on a road trip and he had "dog breath" the second day. usually his mouth doesn't have any odor at all. and i'd consider evo the best dry food on the market right now.

i would try adding something to the food that acidifies the urine (e.g. cranberries as dried fruits or capsules, whichever works, or vitamin C), and also give a good probiotic supplement.

[quote]What's the best way to cook this stuff, I'm not good in the kitchen (and don't eat much meat myself, hence my general lack of knowledge on it), so temps and times would be great. I'm guessing boiling is the way to go, but does meat for the dogs need to be cooked as thoroughly as for humans?[/quote] actually you don't have to cook it at all. it's really not necessary, and your dogs would benefit much more from raw. but if you really aren't ready for that yet, the best way to go is grinding up the meat (or cutting it in small chunks) and simmering it in a little hot water. boiling isn't necessary as protein already denatures at temperatures as low as 110 degrees fahrenheit and the hotter the temperature and the longer the cooking time, the more nutrients are destroyed. heat up the water before you add the meat, otherwise too much of the nutrients leech into the fluid. what you could do is bring enough water to a boil so the meat will just barely be covered, turn off the heat, add the meat and let it sit until you are ready to serve it. once it's cooled, put the pot in the refrigerator. you can cook enough for 3-4 days at a time without a need to freeze. [quote]Do problems with types of meat in kibbles usually carry over to real meat, or is this something I'm just going to have to test? And what sorts of meat are best to give, as in parts of the animals? I'm planning on getting the boneless meat (or deboning it myself I guess), then adding in calcium after its cooked (probably use crushed eggshells for that).[/quote] they can carry over but don't have to. test it out. the thing with beef kibble is that most of them are of very poor quality with barely any beef and way more byproducts and bonemeal. such brands are also pretty poor quality when if comes to the remaining ingredients, something that isn't the case with fresh meat. keep in mind that cooked, boneless meat isn't going to do anything at all for your dog's oral health tho, and neither does kibble. don't waste those nice meaty bones after deboning - let the dog have them. pieces of raw carcasses are one of the best things you can do to keep a dog healthy. as for what part of what meat to use, it really doesn't matter. ideally you'd give a variety of types (beef, pork, chicken, turkey, lamb/mutton etc.), since they are all slightly different in composition. also make sure you don't only feed meat that is lean. dogs do utilize fat well and need it for skin and coat health. if you use ground beef for example, get the 70% lean. [quote]How do I know how much real meat to give to substitute the kibble? I'm guessing about 1/4 lb meat plus some veggies every night would be pretty equivalent to the 6 oz canned food she was getting. How much can I go up to before it becomes a significant part of her diet and I have to worry more about carefully balancing it and adding other nutrients? I'm going to start just giving one real meat added meal a week, the rest canned food, then swap real meat for canned food other nights as they adjust, hopefully with at least several feedings a week having meat additives in them, maybe all.[/quote] there is no hard and fast rule really. pitcairn recommends about 1/4 cup of meat supplement per cup of kibble, which i think is a good start. personally i have fed a 50/50 ratio for quite a while when i was still feeding kibble. you can check out nutritiondata.com for caloric content of all kinds of meats to get an idea but if you keep an eye on your dog's weight and condition you will find out how to adjust amounts too. the whole "balance" thing is completely blown out of proportion by the pet food manufacturers. it's absolute hogwash that every single meal needs to be balanced in order to keep the dog healthy. the true reason is that dry food is something so artificial that it has to be carefully formulated so a dog can eat it for extended periods of time without major problems. however, unless you go with a completely home prepared diet that you can adjust to your personal needs, it's difficult to gauge if you are creating an imbalance long term. i'd recommend rotating in other protein sources as well as meat - give some raw eggs and cottage cheese as well, they have different vitamin and nutrient contents. [quote]And to go off-topic for a minute, I also got some Neura canned food when I got their food this past weekend, I fed this for a while about 6 months ago, and they did ok on it, though the food didn't smell as "nice" as the natural balance. I remember it being mentioned as a decent food, and it has more meat (supposedly is 95% meat) than the NB, plus is about $.25 cheaper, so I figured we'd try it again. Any thoughts on how the two foods compare?[/quote] the neura meats are pretty good quality. another option if you want to stick with canned meats is evanger's, it's a less well known brand (so often cheaper than the more popular ones) and has some varieties that are 100% meat.

this photo is not photoshopped. the "breed" (i use the term loosely here) exists. the "breeder"/inventor even posted on another message board i frequent and tried to defend his back yard breeding practices and later on even one of his customers who bought a "bullnese" showed up and trolled up a storm. i'm surprised that neither of them has showed up on dogomania yet to "set you guys straight". lol :roll:

innova evo is about the tiniest kibble i have ever seen. also, the regular innova is available as "small bites" now. i'd recommend both innova and canidae over eagle, but eagle is an excellent brand too. another alternative is artemis small breed. it's labeled "small breed" but in my opinion it would also be suitable for larger dogs as long as they are adults.

info on dog food ingredients: [url]http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/[/url] as for the debate of whole meats vs. meat meal: it's actually best if the food has both. the meal form (with a named, non-generic source (e.g. chicken meal, lamb meal but [b]not[/b] meat meal or meat and bone meal etc.) is preferred as first ingredient because the moisture has been removed already and the amount by weight is higher, but fresh meat has the advantage of not having been processed once already, like meat meals - which go through a second heating and processing cycle when the kibble is made. if both a specific meat and meat meal source are listed among the first few, it doesn't matter which is first or second. but if there is only one source of meat among the main ingredients, the meal form is preferred since it adds more animal protein by weight.

your best bet to keep teeth and gums healthy are fresh, raw, untreated bones several times a week. dental swabs and wipes are ok, but they don't clean where it's most important: at and below the gum line.