alicat613

[quote name='Daisysmom'] I really think the EN was good for her, and was recommended by our vet.[/quote] I don't know the ingredients but I highly doubt it is a good food. Vets are not nutritionists - they generally have only attended a Hills or other corporate nutrition seminar, and no I'm not making that up. I can get you more info on that, and I used to work in a veterinary complex with 4 vets who all only used Hills because that's all they were taught. EDIT - I don't like editing my posts but I want you to understand I didn't mean any of the above to imply you do not want the best for her or try to do everything right or are a bad pet mommy. Unfortunately the pet food industry and the veterinary industry are not what we as Americans expect. There is very little regulation of either, and vets are NOT taught nutrition unless they seek out a special program and then they will have a CN. I know you want the best for her, so why not try a different route? Obviously the current methods and advice are not working.

Wow...I would not keep feeding her those things! Those are really highly processed foods with a lot of chemicals. I'd recommend raw of course :D but a good kibble would be a big improvement over EN or IAMs. I would also head to a holistic vet. They are much more dedicated to finding the root cause rather than just pumping her with chemicals. They are more expensive (I use 2 - one is $60 the other $75 per visit - but generally ends up cheaper because no expensive meds) but...I've been to regular vets and it's a quick look see and out you go...my holistic vet spent over an hour with us for our first visit - with a fully healthy dog in just for a check up. Generally they are certified in both holistic medicine and regular (allopathic) medicine, as well as possibly other areas such as Chinese herbs, nutrition, etc. You can find one in your area at [url]http://www.ahvma.org/states_and_directory/directory.html[/url] by entering your state into the bar at left. There is a key to their specialties on the left. There is something going on here with your dog, and I don't know if foods can cause something so sporadic, but the fact that your other dog was eating poop means that she was lacking nutrition and that the poop contained undigested stuff in it. So the food itself isn't good, but I can't say that is the problem. Switching to a better food will help her overall. Slippery elm is a wonderful safe herb that soothes the mucous membranes, so it is great for stomach upset, diarrhea, sore throat etc. Hope you guys get to the bottom of this soon.

I have heard of the chewables - I think they are liver flavor. Don't know anything about them as I don't use heartworm meds. I believe the injection is the new birth control for dogs. I haven't read too much on it....it's rather odd! But it could be useful for breeders with several genders although I don't think it helps with any behavior or the actual desire to mate and do the physical act, I think it just prevents pregnancy. I'll try to find more info on it. I just saw about that mag too, while looking for something else on Amazon - you can subscribe to it through their magazines and periodicals section although it didn't really appeal to me.

You may think backyard breeders are all horrible people but they aren't. There is a wide variety of them, and many of them are people who think they are doing the right thing. But they aren't. NO reputable breeder would EVER sell you a female with breeding rights while you still had Ben intact. END of story. You can think you are buying a great CC for breeding, and no I don't know the breed. But I DO know what reputable breeding is and what reputable breeders require.

I'm sorry I missed all the past stuff... can you fill me in on her diet and past medical history including treatments or point me to an old thread? Also what breed(s) is she? Something is not right here, if this is recurring and your vets aren't finding an answer.

This is getting very hard for me to remain polite. You [b]KNOW[/b] what the right thing to do is. If you do not neuter him, and if you breed him EVER you will be nothing more than a [u]BACKYARD BREEDER[/u] contributing to the millions of unwanted pets in the world as well as [b]harming the breed[/b] by continuing less than perfect genetics. If you breed this female, who you have not purchased correctly for breeding purposes, to ANY male, you will be a BACKYARD BREEDER. How can you love animals and even consider doing these awful things that will only HARM the ENTIRE PET POPULATION??

Oh no, I'm so sorry. This has happened before? What did they say? Please keep us informed as much as you can. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this, I know how hard it is when our furkids are sick, and not knowing what is wrong. Best wishes to you and Daisy

Umm no, I don't think so!! :wink: Cross breeding is when you take the dogs, and evaluate their faults. You choose a sire that say has a great head and topline and overall shape but lacks chest and size and breed him to a bitch that has a lessor head and topline, but much better chest and size. This is done, of course after health testing and with great consideration about which dogs will throw what. I believe this is more technically called cross fault breeding. Line breeding is using the pedigree to strengthen certain traits. If you have a bitch with certain traits you want to cement, you would breed her back into the lines in her pedigree, generally within the last couple generations, to the lines that those great traits come from. So ie you have a bitch with fabulous angulation and you want to keep that strong, you research and watch the lines and what they are producing and see that she has Happy Kennel lines and that kennel is producing nothing but top dogs with great angulation, so you would breed her back into that kennel line. In breeding as far as I know is only used as a negative term just like with humans.

Unless you show your dogs and have already been working with a mentor, you are not ready to breed. You don't even know if this boy is worth breeding yet so why get so distraught? First things first! You are getting way ahead of yourself. "I still want the girl. I have been thinking of several diffirent things like... 1. Buying a boy instead and then "renting" a girl and makeing pups with her. 2. Keeping the girl locked up in my room and not letting Ben in during the heat no matter how much he screams and yells behind the door. " You cannot be a breeder while only owning the sire. The breeder and the litter owner is the bitch owner. No reputable person would breed with your dogs until they have completed their championships and then only if upon evaluation it is a good match. On your second idea, that is only cruel and frustrating to your dog. Generally breeders with intact of both sexes will have local breeder friends take the males while the bitch is in heat. To get started in breeding, you need to find an INCREDIBLE mentor, the more the better. I have a ton of great links to help you if you would like, just PM me and I'll get them to you (it's a long list so I don't want to make this message so long). Please understand that despite your best intentions, you are going about this wrong and will only be a BYB who doesn't know it if you don't calm down and take the time to do this right. There are plenty of dogs out there - once you can really say you are improving the breed then breeding might be something to do. But right now you should not even be worrying about these details.

[quote=Mary's Mama]It is usually not recommended to mix kibble and raw. It is too difficult to know exactly how much of the nutrients they are getting. Unless you just feed mainly kibble and then use veggies for treats or give a raw bone once a week or so. [/quote] The other reason is that raw is meant to go through the intestines faster. Kibble is coated with fats and meant to sit and digest more slowly. When you mix the two, theoretically you are making the raw parts sit longer than they should in the digestive tract. But I think once most people really go raw they'd never dream of touching kibble again anyway.

It's actually made by Dick van Patten, the dad from 8 is Enough! They sell it at Petco, and if you go to the website [url]http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com[/url] you can see the lines (the ultra premium is most popular IMO) and find where to buy it.

Both should be altered. It has amazing health and behavioral benefits. You REDUCE cancer risks by neutering. You also recuce any aggression, territorialness, wanting to go to other girls in heat, marking, mounting, etc. And with girls you don't have to deal with the messy heats, attracting other dogs, mood swings, etc.

I am generally opposed to surgically altering the form of a dog, but my Dane's dews (front only) were removed at 3 days. With Danes the dews are so big they present a problem for humans and the dog. There are stories of them getting ripped off or really hurting their owners in play. My dog's dad did not have his done at birth but tore one off during play and it was very very painful for him. The pups were done at 3 days, in home (no exposure to vet clinic germs) with local anasthetic by a professional and I feel this is much less pain than if he were to rip it as an adult of catch it in my eye or something equally horrible. PS I voted for in some breeds. I think it depends on how the dews are situated and if there are ever problems like I mentioned with leaving them on.

True, just in my experience people who feed raw will take the extra time to find a boarding place that will. Switching back and forth isn't good. I imagine though it depends on where you live. I am near Seattle and raw is big here, as is premium pet care, so finding a place that would do that wouldn't be a big deal for me, actually I already have the place picked out if we need it. A lot of people here feed raw, including my vet and many of the pet shops advocate raw. My biggest concern here depending on the breed would be having a raw fed dog going back to kibble without your supervision. I'm a strong believer that in bloat prone breeds kibble is a big factor and to switch from raw to kibble in bloat prone breeds scares me even more than going all kibble. I'm nut a paranoid nut, I had a dog bloat so severely that common veterinary thought was that she would bloat and die within the next few years. She bloated on a too rich kibble and was immediately switched to the cooked Pitcairn diet (this was before he went raw) and not only never again bloated but lived another 12 some years. I am not saying kibble CAUSES bloat but I have yet to hear of a raw bloat experience and a raw fed dog I feel would have more problems going [i]back[/i] to kibble, and I would especially worry about doing this while I couldn't be right there to supervise.

I've never heard of that being an issue and they sell prepackaged BARF meals for convenience for times like that. Switching back and forth is usually considered a no no. I do feed some grains though - only sweet potato and new potatoes for the most part.

Oh, very interesting! I like the puddin story too. Maybe the small ones should be renamed puddin earning terriers? LOL Thanks for explaining. I guess it is much like the two Beagle classes in conformation shows? Where there is no actual breed difference, and you can estimate what you will get out of a litter, but its basically a mixed litter and they grow up to be one or the other depending on height?

I was reading your post in the pit bull/dog park thread but figured this should be separate. :) I heard something about how there are really two breeds of Jack Russels, and now one of them is going to be called the Parsons Russel terrier? What is that all about?

Hmm...Mmillenia is the only beef based food that I can really think of, other than a couple beef and rice lines but they aren't as high quality. I wonder if that's due to the loss of European imports?

Unfortunately many people learn like you have had to. :( We didn't know either. Our first dog came from a backyard breeder. She was nice and loved her dogs, and we didn't know any better. We really lucked out - the other 6 pups ended up having behavioral problems and serious health diseases and all died young. Ours lived to be 17 and was a wonderful dog. But too many people have experiences like yours with disreputable breeders, and it really does hurt the breed and dogs as a whole. I'm sorry you had to learn about pet store puppies this way, but maybe your story can help others too. Best wishes, Ali PS, I don't know if this is a weird question, but could I cross post this on another dog board? I think a lot of people don't see the heartbreak that can come from buying a petstore puppy.

LOL me too. :D I was more curious than anything else about the quotes LOL.

Awww I'm so glad for you! I know you've been wanting another dog, and this sounds like a nice situation. I'm glad the lady was honest about not being able to care for her dog right. Some people would just keep the dog unhappy, rather than find a home that was right for them.

I'm sorry, no advice. This is a sad truth of why you never ever buy a puppy from a pet shop. I hope your pup pulls through. What sort of contact did you have with the puppy, and the puppy at one point was at home, correct? Parvo is VERY contagious. I would discuss with your vet how to treat your home and yard. Not just for your puppy (I think when she is done she can't catch it again?? I am not sure on that), but for other dogs in your neighborhood, dogs that visit, etc. I know people who moved into a house and got a puppy and that puppy died because previous owners had parvo there and not disenfected. Best wishes, Ali

Are you talking about entropian?

Well raw could really be anything not cooked. BARF is a specific diet that is raw, but there are quite a few out there. I do a diet following mostly Dr. Pitcairn who uses bone meal in proportion to the meat, rather than have them eat bones at every meal (bones for chewing is a part of Pitcairn though) I don't think any one of the diets is best necessarily, just this is what is right for us for now. Who knows, maybe in a few years I'll be a BARFer. I'm always trying to learn more. There are a ton of raw diets and books on it, you just have to kind of read and decide for yourself. Kinda like the grape thing LOL. The books don't all agree on things, including grapes but you just have to figure out what you are comfortable with and able to do and what works for your dog.

Sorry guys, my post wasn't meant to be that rude. I'm really a cheery bouncy person so in person I can say things that are taken differently in just text. But it IS weird. I have never had the grape question come up so much in such a short time. Everyone seems to want to know about grapes all of a sudden! And yes you are right "we" (not sure why in quotes?) have discussed BARF a lot too, although not so much me since I'm not a BARFer. And RAW which is just raw :) yes, I like to talk about it. I'm still hoping to find someplace on the web that has some worthwhile pet nutrition discussions for raw feeders not just BARFers and if you know of one please tell me. I apologize if I bore you with my passion for natural feeding, but that is why I come to dog sites, to discuss with other natural feeders. I don't mean to be however you're apparently interpreting me. I don't have a lot of time to spend just chatting about every day life or all dog problems, so I tend to zero in on things I am interested in when I come here or other places.