Horsefeathers!

You'll find that this is a VERY divided topic. Pro BARFers are usually adamantly so. I feed pretty similarly to what MajiesMom described. I mean, I feed kibble (Canidae and Wellness rotated), but when I add fresh ingredients, I lightly cook them. I did have one of my dogs on a raw diet a long time ago in an effort to help with her allergies, but she got very, very sick with salmonella which some people say can't happen in dogs (culture proved otherwise) and that could have supposedly come from "anywhere." I've also since seen dogs in our clinic come through which did have have injuries sustained from bones, mostly chicken, that were fed raw. Some actually had caught and killed the chickens themselves, so it couldn't have been any more fresh than that (some people say raw bones are no problem if fed correctly). All this said, my position is that raw or BARF is not the diet for MY dogs. However, I can respect that many are doing well on it and am ok with that knowledge. I believe there is no perfect diet for every dog. My disdain and resentment stem from people who repeatedly say that BARF is the best diet all dogs could have and could only go wrong if prepared and handled incorrectly. I can respect that many dogs do well on raw foods, but I wish some of the more adamant BARFers could recognize that not every dog will do well on it regardless of research, preparation and execution. You'll find that it's a very divided subject and can lead to some pretty heated discussions.

This is Missy. [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0XQAZA60eZ94EC!izW5p9mWZ8v*F8I!pJ6IUaOE*GiipVu7RhniHyI2D7v5LjJpZQqh4XYV37uxUE*4CGUwJDysdzDKj1XJRCgeb!eRPl89*HXoDG*aEmNS0pvQkqSNZs1bqWfu4qylg/Missyagain.jpg?dc=4675379075352103430[/img]

[quote]He got his butt whipped by a poodle!!! [/quote] No, he got his butt whipped by a Lhasa Apso. My small Poodle (Peanut) wouldn't know how to bite someone :oops: . However, he DID almost get whooped up on my one of my Standard Poodles once. My Pauly could be a fear biter and I caught this dude once jumping at him and antagonizing him just for kicks and grins. Pauly was barking at him. When I caught the guy, he said to me, "I thought I was gonna have to put som'thin' on ya dawg" meaning he was planning to hit or kick him for barking at him. Pauly wasn't bothering him prior and isn't an aggressive dog. He actually is friendly and likes people, but he is very easily intimidated by "threatening" gestures and if he can't get away, he can bite. The dude just started messing with him to make him bark and then he kept going until Pauly was about ready to nail him and THEN decided he might have to "punish" Pauly. I did talk reallllllllly ugly to that guy then and basically told him he'd be smart to leave him alone, especially after all the work we've put into Pauly to keep him from having to feel defensive (Pauly is five years old, but we've only had him since September). The idea that this guy could undo all the work we'd put into Pauly really upset me. Courtnek is right... I've complained about this same guy in the past. He believes about dogs that "ya gotta show 'em who's boss." Considering that most of my dogs are rescues and many came to me with issues that we've had to work on, I really don't appreciate him undermining all the work we've put into them. One thing is certain. I am going to put a lock on my door. I take my dogs with me to work every day even if I never let them spend another night there and I don't want him back there at all, period. If I go to lunch, or run an errand, I want to be able to lock him out. In five years, I've never had to lock my door and I hate to do it now because sometimes the clinic staff needs to get a client's dog from back there for whatever reason (may need an exam or vacs while it's there for grooming), but they'll just have to wait until I return to get them from now on. PBL, you may have a point. Even though I can't prove abuse, I've actually been considering seeing if I can file a police report to charge him with something like unlawful entry, or something similar. I kind of doubt it would be taken seriously (in this area of good ol' boys), but I may check it out. I feel that justice would be best served on a more personal level. I really want this guy out of there more than I want "revenge." If I could just get him arrested for SOMETHING where he'd have to spend a couple of nights in jail, he'd miss work and could be fired for that since he has no money or means of bailing himself out. DL, Missy seems to be fine today. I'm sure she was really, really glad to be able to spend the night in her (our) own bed last night. Thanks for asking!

So you're all saying you don't want a Rocco update?? :cry: :cry: :P We've discontinued Rocco's physical therapy. He was making great progress and has built a good bit of muscle tone in his rear end. He's actually physically capable of walking, but we can't make him want to. He had really begun dreading going with me to work in the mornings because the therapy is painful, I'm sure. He usually seemed to like to ride before that and I hate the idea of him dreading leaving the house. All the physical therapy in the world won't make him TRY to walk. It's become easy for him to just shuffle along dragging his feet behind him, so it's what he does. Oh well, he still gets where he wants to go and has become able to drag himself up and down the few steps leading into and out of the house with little effort, so shuffle he shall. This dog's front end is SO strong. He can actually pick his rear end OFF the ground and walk on his front legs when he wants to. He does this when pooping sometimes :oops: . Rocco is also too smart for his own good... or rather MY own good :x . He has become used to being coddled and babied in every way and we are now undergoing a bit of boot camp to make him a little more independent. I don't mind coddling and loving and such, but he will lead you to believe he is quite helpless if you let him. Hogwash! This dog gets around just about as good as any of my others with only the use of his front legs. All in all, he's settled in really well. He's used to the other dogs, they are used to him. I've actually seen him and Devin playing. He LOVES to chase my cats, though :o . I was really worried about that when he first started doing it because he would seem so vicious. Well, a couple of my cats won't budge when he approaches them and he does nothing. I think the thrill is in the chase. We watch it closely, though, but I'm not as worried as I was. One cat that he chases will just come up to him and butt his nose and Rocco just stands there with a bewildered look, but doesn't try to bother him. Good kitty :wink: . He's doing great! :D

...in the morning when I get up. G'night. :P

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQClApcfT0PWpLbhXWCnAkR5hUs6yHFEBZEQsenMMq*dvDIbnGPBZb0mA41gN6T5!re8JBdqqnWZ7aPuaevdKux3mRFe9Wfmj*xvrUr0dacZsu*JHyB2M4hHEexz61xrZZXQjHx6q6TMwpQGQ3Kd4Q/smiley%20lurk.gif?dc=4675441322264543506[/img]

[quote name='HazelNutMeg']HF, is there anyway that he can get fired now? Or does your vet still have to really see something and have evidence? :-?[/quote] The problem is that I can't actually PROVE anything. I'm sure of it, I'd bet money on it, I'd just about stake my life on it. I just can't prove it. The vet has been great over the years for backing me up, but it's a tricky deal. I'm not an actual employee and it wasn't clinic business, so really the "punishment" would have to come from me, not the vet. Also, with our laws, the vet has to have a solid reason to fire him and so far he hasn't been able to have proof of anything other than this guy is a worthless piece of crap. I do understand the vet's position. He'd like to get rid of the guy, but at this time, the law is on Stoopit Dude's side. It's really sad because the rest of the staff there is absolutely wonderful and I'd trust them implicitly with any of my animals. :x My poor Missy girl is so glad to be home tonight and has stayed so close to my husband or me. I only wish she could talk :( . I'm not done with Stoopit Dude. I don't know yet what I'm going to do, but I've had it with him. Dude's gotta go. :x

Oh, now that was GOOD! :bigok:

[quote name='Anonymous']NO! I am saying if you both could read!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [b][size=7]YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE YOUR OWN DOGS BONE WITHOUT GETTING BIT!!!!!!![/size][/b][/quote] Yeah, well, in a perfect world, parents would be paying more attention to what their children are doing, too. If I were to go along with this, ok, you should be able to take a bone from your own dog. What 2 year old owns a dog?

Well, we're currently up to six dogs on the bed including a really long and lanky Standard Poodle. I remember a few years ago when one of our written in stone rules was about having no dogs on the bed. :-?

[quote name='Dog Lover']And I'm an ENGLISH major using the wrong verb tense. Sorry Goo. :oops: :lol:[/quote] Shame on you!! I didn't want to say anything about your improper use of English verbages and tensages and stuff, but since you brought it up... :o :P

Hackers! Who posted that above in MY name?? :o If that were actually ME posting, it would have said please take care of yourself and do try to be more careful. 8) :oops: :lol:

[quote name='Mei-Mei']Oh, you poor thing. Still you have to admit it's a little funny. :lol: :lol:[/quote] Oh, it's a LOT funny!! [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YgDlAs8fU1fYgl35Oidq!IdjBvlEADp!a0a7FM6XFsObxumks5fHahApbkP5Er1n6PM*zyic4YmK0jNDiKtiwCl*GVXq1WNoIM9HiZcXg0lFiUr!FO3VSgGu6q*GAbanbe2r0!G7pJUeuam4pWiWTQ/dog%20laughing.gif?dc=4675403504549084446[/img]

Here is a little fodder just because I'm not really ashamed to be "real" and not pretend to be the perfect dog owner (disclaimer: not claiming anyone else does). I think sometimes people are afraid to post some real life situations because they are afraid of being ridiculed for not always making the right decision, even though sometimes the "right" decision is only apparent AFTER the fact. We're all only human and to be honest, sometimes doo doo happens. Here is my "what was I thinking" story du jour. This is bound to stir controversy and get me flamed, shot at and *yawn* stuff, but here goes, anyhoo... I left two of my dogs at work overnight last night (first mistake). They've gone with me nearly every day of their lives for the last five years, so it's not a new place for them. They'd been pottied and fed last night before I left and I would be back in the morning. My workspace is MY space... I pay rent for it; it's not part of the vet clinic's business. No one has any business in there messing with anything. I got there this morning expecting to get my girls and let them out and feed them. I walked in to find a huge mess. A broken bowl in the floor, my dogs not where I left them. I've gotten varying accounts of what happened, but the truth is that I'll probably really never know. I was told that one of the techs went back there this morning and found one of my dogs sitting in the kennel with the door open. Alllllllllrighty then. He moved her and the other dog to an outside kennel so they could potty (second mistake). Now, Missy is not a friendly dog. That said, she will tolerate most anyone at that clinic just fine. She's not blatantly aggressive and doesn't lunge and snarl at people. She just prefers to be left alone. There is ONE guy at the clinic she hates and to be honest, so do I. This guy is bad news (some of you have heard me complain about him before). I believe he is antagonistic with animals if not outright abusive. He always thinks "ya gotta show 'em who's boss 'n stuff" and "don't take no sh*t from no dawg." That kind of guy. So anyway, apparently Stoopit Dude decides to go retrieve Missy from the outside kennels and put her back and I reckon I was to never know the difference. The explicit instructions were to just leave them alone until I got there. No, that was too simple for him. Somehow he attempted to get Missy out of the kennel. She bolted past him and into the courtyard. The gate was shut, thank doG! If it had been left open, I'm afraid Missy would be gone. ANY other person in that clinic can handle Missy with no problem. She just hates THIS guy... the ONE guy bound and determined to screw with her. Well, he finally cornered her (next mistake) and, from what I understand, all but sprung on her to pick her up. She nailed him in his hand. Got him good. Here's what bothers me about it from here on out. Like I've said, this guy believes in "take no sh*t" from any animal. He antagonizes them if they are only looking worried or like they *might* growl through their kennels. I believe he probably brutalized my dog once she bit him. When I found her this morning, she was cowering in the back of a kennel covered in urine and feces. There is NO way she would make this kind of mess just staying overnight. She's been there a million times and stayed overnight and it's like a second home to her. He did something to her. Now... I'm all for defending oneself against being bitten. We've been covering that here recently. However, what are your views when a supposed adult gets bitten for being (what's the word I'm looking for here...) STOOPIT? He is the ONLY person there that this dog can't stand and he HAD to make it a point to jack with her. Leaving my girls over night is a debatable topic alone (I'm waiting for the obligatory "I would NEVER board my dogs away from home! *gasp*"... the fact is that *I* do). Still, I'm really beyond p*ssed that I can't leave my own dogs on what is basically my own property (by way of rent) without someone messing with them. I have to admit that I'm glad she at least got one good bite in (his hand was all taped up today). He deserved it. And then had the nerve to tell me today... "don't be mad at her... she was just defending herself..." Jackass. I wasn't mad at HER. :evil:

PETA... Boo! Hiss! :stupid:

[quote name='pitbulletta']Well DUH..obviously we're all gonna pick the dogs we have... :o I say Pit Bull Terrier... wait..I have a Chihuahua too...is it wrong to discriminate? :( *runs to her Chi*..I'm sorry Dude..forgive me...!!![/quote] Well, DUH, we only have them because they are our favorites. :lol: Still, I have several breeds of dogs, too, but Standard Poodles are far and beyond my favorite. There's nothing I'd love more than to eventually get a Standard Poodle from working lines.

Atta girl! :bigok:

[quote name='newfiemom']Oh my Dog... I have those same sheets with the sun and stars and the same comforter!!! [/quote] My 11 year old sister has the exact same set as well! :oops:

[quote name='sashagirl']I just want to take this time to say.. I love you Horsefeathers... :D[/quote] I think you a'ight n' stuff, too (never have been able to emote well :oops: ). :wink:

The only deaf dog we had was also virtually blind, so hand signals were useless except to show him where we were (he could detect motion, but that's about it). The only thing we could do for him was clap loudly to "call" him and then move vigorously to show him where we were once he was close. Probably not exactly what you're looking for. :oops: It sounds like a good thing you're doing. Good luck! :bigok:

HNM, you are going to hate me for this, I just know it. I understand your desire to want to help. Believe me, NOBODY understands more than I do how hard it is to turn away from those in need who can't help themselves (such as these poor puppies). I really do admire and respect your compassion and willingness to commit to their care. However (and you had to know that was coming), I can also see where your parents are coming from. Perhaps it's because I'm becoming an old fart. They've set boundaries which could be a good thing in the grand scheme of things. They don't want you to end up like me... no social life, all extra money goes to critter care, always unexpected expenses, always something that needs to be cleaned (whether bowls, bedding, dirty dogs, whatever) and NEVER a day off. Honestly, I can respect them for it. I sometimes wish I had someone over me who could set boundaries for me since I can't say no. While I love my critters and wouldn't part with a single one of them, some days I think of what it used to be like when we could just plan a long weekend away from home and head for the beach, or things like that, but now we can't. It all stems from both of us (hubby and me) being unable to say no to a sad face and pleading eyes. As cold as it sounds, you can't save them all. It doesn't make you not want to try, though. I guess what I'm saying is try to see it from your parents' point of view. All this did was change the way you had it planned, but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't still be involved and help. Best wishes for the pups.

Aonir, do something about Amaya quick, fast and in a hurry! You sure don't want to let that escalate. She is already challenging you and it seems that she's being able to push her boundaries out further and further. I know where you're coming from and I'm only speaking from the frustration I've had at dealing with a very similar problem in my Pauly. He's a different dog now than he was, but it was a rough ride. Get that gal some doggy bootcamp quick! [color=red]Disclaimer: "doggy bootcamp" refers only to behavior modification and does not intend to imply harm should befall the dog in attempt of said behavior modification. No implications of kicking, pinching, poking, stabbing, choking, beating, nipple twisting, or otherwise physically abusing the dog. Positive measures are indeed acceptable as part of a doggy bootcamp. See store for details. Tax, tag and title not included. Don't run with scissors. Don't walk under ladders. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Wear sunscreen.[/color]

[quote name='corgilady']Hi y'all, i left this forum before due to a lot of bickering. Just recently returned, and it does seem to have a lot of guests and dissention. The only way you could keep that from happening is to form a private discussion board, and then NOT post the addy but just share it among friends. Even that would only work as long as the trolls couldn't coerce the addy out of someone...... [/quote] But how would we ever meet and make new friends if we decided to basically lock it down :( ? I think most people joining up are sincere and look how many new and GOOD people have joined since you left. We are strong enough as a group not to let the small minds get to us, I'm sure. Great to see you back, Corgi! 8)

Corgi!! I just recognized you!! Dang, I didn't even realize that was THE Corgilady. Imagine my red face. :oops: How the heck are ya?? Ok, me me me! *waves hand furiously in the air* I might as well be one of the first ones to get flamed and shot at (not by you, but it's coming, I'm sure). [quote]Tell me how you got him (breeder, ASPCA, etc) how old he was when you got him, and how you dealt with his aggression. What was the end result? Were you successful? Would you do it again?[/quote] I'll just basically answer the questions asked. If you need more detail, or think it's something you can use, don't hesitate to ask. We obtained Penny when she was about 4-5 weeks old from a "breeder." Actually, my own sister had an old dilapidated dog she bred to death and the litter Penny came from was the last. At that point, the mother dog pretty much stopped caring for the pups at around 4 weeks, so that's why we took Penny. The aggression began showing when she was about 2 years old. How we dealt with it, in no particular order... various training techniques, full medical workup including eye exam and blood panel, natural diets, medication (Clomicalm), stringent monitoring, pain medication (though she never showed any sign of pain; it was only something we were trying). The end result was the dog became increasingly volatile and was put down, so no, we were not successful. As for whether or not I would do it again... I say absolutely not. That's my official answer. The truth is I'm sure I would. I just don't INTEND to. That's the short version and I don't make the distinction there of when her animal aggression crossed over to human aggression and I also didn't include her breed (or mix) just so it wouldn't seem as stereotyping, though it's no secret... most people are aware of what Penny basically was. I just didn't include it in the story. If or when you need more details, I'll be happy to oblige. :)

HNM, I'll admit that it does sound odd, but some people are just more private than others for reasons that are totally valid to them. Even though I may think it's odd, I still don't have a problem with it if someone chooses not to disclose what kinds of dogs they have. It just seems to me that the problem (not with you specifically, so don't think I'm singling you out, ok?) is that people are annoyed with her. That's fine to be annoyed, but I just don't think it's worth banning over, at least when someone is contributing rather than just the blatant trolling ("GSD's are stoopit and should all die!! You stink and yer dog is oogly!!"). I annoy the h*ll out of a lot of people around here, but PUHLEEZE don't get rid of me. 8)