Horsefeathers!

I saw that report. Now this is just me, but... While I've never considered it, and will always do anything and everything in my power to train, restrain, and control my dogs, I think I might consider it if it meant losing my dog. I mean, I truly do agree that it's yet another mutilation that people do to dogs for the sake of convenience and other lame reasons. It's not something I'd ever consider as long as I had alternatives and, fortunately, I've always had alternatives. I've not had a dog yet that couldn't have its barking controlled. However, on the report, one guy was hauled into court by his neighbor and the judge gave him a choice between debarking his dog or getting rid of the dog. There was no mention of an option for training, bark collars, keeping the dog inside 24/7 and walking only supervised on a leash, or any other alternative. The guy was court ordered to debark his dog or get rid of it. I imagine that if I were faced with those options, I'd consider it, albeit begrudgingly. There is another family that was court ordered by that same judge to debark their three dogs or get rid of them. They are fighting him on it and have refused to do it. PETA sent the judge a letter and the judge is softening his view a bit, he says. I think the family is supposed to appear again before this judge at a later date to see what they have to do. Anyway... again, I agree that it's mutilation and have always been fortunate/smart/whatever enough to control my barking dogs using other means. However, if I were faced with losing my dogs or my home and that were the ONLY option offered to me... I dunno. :oops: The lady with the Shelties made me angry. She had FOUR of her dogs debarked and was really nonchalant about it as if it were no big deal. It really stuck out to me when she said something about it being a great alternative as a last resort. While I can kinda sorta see a point in that, how in the world did she need it as a last resort for FOUR dogs? I do think she did it as more of a convenience.

Can too much fish oil cause diarrhea? I've been giving Peaches (the Dobe) two 1488 mg capsules of fish oil (3V Caps) a day for dry skin. The label says 1-2 daily for a dog her size, but my vet usually says you don't need to give that much. We've also recently done a diet change from Canidae to Chicken Soup (only because the last bag of Canidae I bought was rancid and there was no available decent alternative until more came in except the Chicken Soup). The change has been about a week ago and all my other dogs are doing fine, but Peaches still has diarrhea. We've fasted 24 hours, been giving canned pumpkin and Nzymes

I'd forgotten I even posted this question. :oops: I think I may not have asked it right. What I'm wondering is if it's a more common allergen than, say, rice or oatmeal. I understand about wheat not necessarily being a bad thing unless a dog is particularly allergic to it, but for some reason, I have this notion (from who knows where) that wheat is a common allergen. Does it make sense what I'm trying to ask?

DP, Fred is having a rough week. :o He was quite sick earlier this week, and started on antibiotics. Poor guy could barely raise his head, he was so weak. He seems to be feeling much better now, only today he had a very pronounced limp on one of his front legs. Geez, it's just not his week. Not too worried about the leg at this point because it's not nearly as pronounced tonight as it was earlier this afternoon. I just figure he landed wrong somewhere and had to work it out. They do that sometimes. Heck, for that matter, so do I. His behavior hasn't changed, though. Still whiney and goofy and... stoopit. I really do believe he is just going to be our "special" dog. :oops: Love him, though. Hope his luck changes soon. :lol: Another Fred (in coat) photo just because the opportunity is there. Funny thing is he LOOKS like a wise old man... who'd guess that there's absolutely nothing going on between those ears? :P Thanks for asking, DP. [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WQAhA3ccUCIaSYG51qsxpCDxh0P*BqZMA2DjEoUbCr1s1T07GQ5qJD9QLGu!bwwpPpRmQAzRucrnfUrvpEM7iq9dVoIf6vZq64NmmcOSXr7xmQqOMgPwmEvmLGL4TMA7*y5Cx7o24sk/Fred1.jpg?dc=4675472358283501186[/img]

Oh, I love him! I swear I fall more in love with Dobes every day and know in the bottom of my heart I'll always have one (along with my Standard Poodles, of course). That's it; I'm going to go hug Peaches right now. Sizzle, I LOVE your dogs!

Sending best wishes that it's something easily treatable and that poor Penny will be feeling better soon.

Courtnek, toilet paper rolls and paper towel rolls are a big hit in my house with some of my dogs, and I've never had a problem with them. Several other people I know in real life and on other boards give them as well. They can be messy and feel really gross when you pick them up, but so far, they've been harmless in my house. I suppose they aren't the "healthiest" of toys, but we allow it. If it weren't for toilet paper rolls, I think Fred would start eating my house, wall by wall. :o

[quote name='DogPaddle'][quote]If we set a box down somewhere, he tries to eat that.[/quote] :lol: I'm not sure why that strikes me as funny. Maybe its the thought of a tiny Lhasa viciously dismemebering a box. Fred does sound special, definately something to treasure.[/quote] "Dismembering" might be giving him too much credit for being on some sort of mission or having a higher goal or something. No, he just lays down by it and begins nonchalantly working it over, kind of like an old man with a wad of 'baccer (tobacco). He looks like he ought to have to spit occasionally. :lol: We do give him old toilet paper rolls to chew on. Toys of the gods, he thinks. :roll:

[quote name='DogPaddle']I think the next dog I adopt will be a Lab/Pit/Shepherd or any one of the dogs on the big list.[/quote] DP, we did something similar. When we adopted Tucker, our black Lab(mix?), we had recently read something about large adult black dogs being hardest to get adopted. We went to the shelter and asked to see all the adult black dogs and that's what we adopted.

To be honest, I'd totally love to have another Pit or Pit mix in my life, but after dealing with Penny (for those that remember her) and learning what I now know about having to be "on guard" for dog aggression, I just can't do it. I plan to always have a multi-dog household and I don't think I have it in me to ever have to go through that business of having to worry if my dogs will get along. Disclaimer: I realize that dogs of any breed can decide they don't like each other. I'm just talking about how you have to be so aware when you have Pits. I've lived that 24/7 separation business and it still ended up in disaster, so I am just not planning on doing it again. As a breed, I really like Pit Bulls and mixes. I just don't think I'm the right home for one.

Cool beans, DP! The only thing "misleading" about it all is that a lot of these breeds are just guesses by shelters and rescues. I guess it's still a good rough estimate, but I've looked at PetFinder a lot, only to see a lot of dogs that don't look anything like what they're labeled as (using Dobes as a good example). It's hard for me to say what I'm trying to say without sounding like I'm knocking rescues and shelters and mixed breed dogs. I'm certainly not! I'm just saying it's hard for me to figure out how to estimate a certain percentage of these dogs since there's really no way, a lot of times, to know what they really are. I reckon it's still a good rough estimate. My next [u]intended[/u] adoption will be a retired racing Greyhound.

So glad Jesse is home and seems to be improving. Carol, do be sure to let us know how he's doing! He has a lot of people around the world worrying about him and pulling for him. :angel:

Well, we're wondering if maybe Fred is just a little... stoopit? :oops: Lhasas are fairly well known for their longevity, so eight years old should certainly not make him an old man, but I can't help wondering if it is some cognitive thing. We did go ahead and do rough checks of his hearing and vision (what I know the vet does at the clinic) and they don't seem diminished. We can't find any source of pain or discomfort. Another habit that's popping up lately that I didn't think of is that he's recently taken to "nursing." He likes to find a blanket, bedspread, any piece of cloth he can find laying around and roll it up in a wad and suck on it. The thing that's scary is he'll "swallow" as big a chunk as he can get in his mouth while he's nursing it, causing him to gag, but he keeps doing it. Even though he's only eight years old, I can't help wondering if there is just some funky cognitive thing going on. We do still ignore him at night and he does eventually go back to sleep. It's just frustrating to wake up those several times to listen to him whine and claw and pace and not know why he's doing it. He's never been the sharpest knife in the drawer (if you know what I mean)... never easily trained, always kind of seemed to have his own agenda (or "selective hearing"), always "stubborn," though the more I think of it, the more I think he might just be kind of "slow" rather than resistant or stubborn, and is getting even "slower," for what sense that makes. Oh well, he's a sweet dog and, so far, doesn't ever seem to get confused on who we are and all that. I reckon we'll just have to learn to live with his episodes. If it continues to get worse, or he starts showing more symptoms of something being "wrong," I'll have a full work-up done, but at this point, I think he may just be our "special" dog. We've started having to Fred-proof the house... making sure no paper is lying around on a table where he can reach it since he's taken to surfing tables and eating paper (or emory boards, or plastic, or anything that he can actually get into his mouth). If we set a box down somewhere, he tries to eat that. We have to make sure the gate is not only closed, but locked since Fred has learned how to wiggle out of it and will just pace circles around the house as if he's frantically looking for something, or lost. Silly, silly boy. I think it's just an evolution of his lifelong "slowness." Am I under-reacting?

Isn't wheat a common allergen and not something you really want to see large amounts of in dog food?

? :-? ? Fred, one of our Lhasas, seems to be having problems sleeping, or at least staying asleep. He sleeps kenneled and has, off and on, for many years. For some reason, Fred started waking up in the early hours of the morning whining and scratching to get out, so we let him out. He does nothing but stand on the doorsteps looking around- he apparently doesn't need to potty. Now he's waking up several times a night whining and scratching to get out, but still he just stands on the doorstep looking around. There's been no difference in routine, nothing apparent that would "upset" him. He's otherwise acting normally... not nervous, anxious, no sign of pain, he's eating fine, potty habits are normal. We even wondered if maybe he's getting hot, but I keep him buzzed short these days, and the house is kept pretty cool. He can't be hearing something because all the other dogs sleep right on through and never raise their heads to see what the fuss is... if something were going on, the rest of the gang, or at least ONE of them, would be on top of it as well. I'm at a loss trying to rationalize it. It sure would be nice to be able to get a solid night's sleep without being rattled awake several times by a restless dog. We've started ignoring him at night when he begins clawing and whining so that he doesn't establish a routine of needing to go out several times a night, and he does eventually settle down and go back to sleep. We're just wondering what's causing him to get so restless. He's eight years old, but he isn't ancient by any means. He still runs around and plays just fine. Surely, at eight years old, he isn't having some sort of cognitive thing going on. Thoughts? Could he be getting senile? :-? [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WAAaA9AbE!kaSYG51qsxpJYIiEKsMT9TfzZEtbLsPHvsl136frmuLk3sewvVebUwpko6MUxJ*kdqov7t9OJMT2RerDRfB5!RlHOsyQgBViJzVxgqwD2eybvkIUa3hpQZXwAAAP****8/Fred1.JPG?dc=4675382215984683875[/img]

Hey, that sounds like really good advice! 8) SF, can you think of anything that might make him feel this way? I mean, dogs perceive things in some pretty weird ways sometimes. Perhaps there was an incidence where you were angry about something totally unrelated to him and he picked up on it at exactly the wrong time? I'm just grasping for straws here, so if some of this sounds inane, just bear with me. A bug flying around your head causing you to react "violently" (swatting and swinging)? A passerby that caused you to yell out? Something on the ground that made you stomp at it? Out together when the weather turned really bad? Out together when some strange/loud/sudden noise happened (thunder, gunshot, backfiring car, loud boom boom music too close)? I'm just stretching here... In the meantime, I like Dobe's advice. Perhaps stop making too big a deal of it and let it "just happen" by making it his choice, but making it hard to choose otherwise. Good luck. I'm sure he'll eventually overcome this.

Ace? Yikes! :o Since you don't KNOW it's not some sort of seizures, I'd really, really stay away from ace since it's not something you want to give a seizure prone dog (to be honest, I just genuinely do not like what I believe is the over-use of acepromazine, period, but from all I understand, you do not give ace to seizure prone dogs). I'm thinking it's time for a full work-up. The poor guy has some age on him, so it's not unreasonable to think he may be having some health problems causing the behavioral problems. Many physical problems (brain tumors, neurological problems, thyroid disorders, etc.) can affect behavior. I think I'd insist on a full exam and work-up to rule out any health issues. I just can't imagine why this vet is just "assuming" the dog, at this age, "just" has separation anxiety issues and isn't suggesting a check-up. Perhaps it's time to insist on a health check, or a second opinion from another vet? Other than that, I agree that some form of confinement is in order. He may be getting a bit senile and his cognitive functions not what they used to be. If that's the case, it's in his own best interest to confine him to a space where, not only can't he do damage, he can't hurt himself. If not a crate (I understand the hesitancy in doing that after all these years, but...), perhaps "puppy proof" an area of the house where he isn't likely to damage anything or hurt himself, while still giving him something to do. This is solely my opinion and I'm a nobody (not a vet or behaviorist or trainer or any such thing), but I wouldn't be willing to just dismiss sudden behavior changes in a 13 year old dog (like the vet seems to have). If he has never been destructive before in his life and his behavior change is so radical, my intuition would tell me that [u]something[/u] is wrong. In the meantime, keep him safe by confining him to a safe area. Good luck.

We once had a client at our clinic request that our vet remove the uterus (uteri? uteruses?) only and leave the ovaries. No idea why. :-?

Looking around at the ten I have in the house... yeah, having three dogs would be REALLY easy. :lol:

Oh, poor Jesse! :( Sending out well wishes and positive thoughts that Jesse will be ok.

Dogs need exercise? :o

Tell me, someone, anyone, how you are expected so socialize a dog other than taking the dog out into social situations? :x We took Devin (Lhasa) and Peanut (little Poodlet) to another outdoor function today. Peanut loves people, so we don't worry about her behavior. Devin is our other dog that we've worked on some aggression issues with. He's actually very well mannered in public, a dream on a leash, and doesn't mind people and social situations. However, he can become overwhelmed and defensive if overzealous people approach him. We are fully aware that everyone isn't dog savvy, so we don't mind giving friendly advice on how to approach Devin, or just totally keeping Devin out of reach of people we feel might not "listen." It's good for his social skills, right? Anyway, hubby and I and the dogs were sitting on some benches waiting for a band to start. Devin was laying in my husband's lap, trying to nap. This little boy (about ten-ish, so not SO little) kept calling to Devin and trying to approach him. We tried politely telling him that the doggy was trying to nap, so let's just let him be. The kid kept on and on and on while his mother just ignored him. I think she was hoping we'd entertain him while she "entertained" her boyfriend, if you get my drift. Anyway, he became more and more pushy and I finally told him, still politely, that this little doggy isn't always very friendly and might try to bite if he kept trying to disturb him. It isn't like Devin was lunging and snapping. He was trying to sleep and we were trying to be responsible by keeping the kid away from him. Anyway, that's when the mother FINALLY called her kid away and I thought that was the end of that. I found out AFTERWARD that the mother was talking plenty of sh*t about how it was so wrong for us to have Devin in public if he might bite someone. I had heard her rattling on and on about something, but the music was loud and I really didn't pay her any attention. My husband is the one that heard her and, in his wisdom(?), just didn't pass it on to me until afterward. He said she kept going on and on about how irresponsible it was for us to have a "bad" dog in public. Devin slept through the whole show, so it isn't like he was bothering anyone. My husband said the woman was all but making a scene. I just didn't pay it any attention. He just wanted to watch the show. Anyway, I just can't help wondering how you go about socializing a dog if not for taking them into social situations? He was on a leash, behaved very well, didn't bother anyone. I think this gal should have had her KID on a leash. I think she was just p*ssed off because I basically told him to naff off. Sorry, but I am not the public babysitter. I don't mind being polite and courteous (and I was!), but I don't think I was out of line by telling this kid not to virtually assault a strange, sleeping dog. A good thing that happened, though. After all this had taken place, a lady sat down with her white GSD by all of us. This dog was obviously quite nervous, but was behaving fairly well. The mother of the kid said quite loudly, "hey, that dog isn't going to bite, is it? I mean, I don't want my baby near a biting dog..." (I did hear this, but didn't think much of it since I didn't hear her whole tirade before) and the GSD owner said, "no, he's a pretty good dog, just doesn't like strangers rushing him... we're just trying to socialize him... I'm sure you already know it's not a good thing to just let your kid run up to a strange dog, anyway, right...?" Bless the GSD owner's heart because she didn't even know what had happened earlier and the mother was left looking like a fool. So... opinions? Should "iffy" dogs be allowed in public? How should they be socialized? If I had a dog that was an obvious threat, one intent on doing serious harm and one capable of taking my control, I'm sure I wouldn't. However, Devin isn't uncontrollable and the socialization does him good. I'm just curious what other dog owners think.

FHO surgery is what my Tucker Lab had. It did seem to help him a lot for a good year or two. Bear in mind that Tucker is aging and that he has some other old damage to his rear end, so arthritis is starting to kick his butt, but I fully believe FHO bought him a bit of relief while it lasted. Since Pooh is so much younger and (I assume?) has no other damage (old injuries), he'll probably be just fine and before too long, you'll be wishing he'd get somewhere and lay down. :roll: I was lucky enough to get to stand in for the surgery. It's really quite simple, in concept, but quite gruesome to watch :-?. I had to go home and take a Tylenol for the sympathy pains. I'm kind of a weirdo, though, because I saved the bone. I still have it. :oops: We also had to almost immediately make him begin using that leg. That's really hard because you feel so sorry for them... especially having seen the surgery. It's so hard to do something intentionally that you KNOW hurts them. Who wants to deliberately hurt someone they love? Still, you gotta do whatcha gotta do. I reckon it's a form of tough love. Sounds like Pooh is getting a plan of action. Will be sending him all the luck in the world. Recovery is tough, but you'll do what you have to do. OH! By the way, it's probably a good idea to start thinking of a place where Pooh can rest during his recovery period where other dogs can't tromple him. We don't typically mind our dogs on the furniture, but Tucker doesn't usually get up on it. We set aside the love seat specifically for Tucker. With so many other dogs in the house, we needed to be able to have him somewhere that was comfortable and where he wasn't likely to be trompled by other dogs. We didn't want to just put something soft on the floor for him because we were afraid the other dogs might jar him or step on him or just land on him. Just be kind of tossing the idea around of somewhere Pooh can rest undisturbed, yet not necessarily isolated away. [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YAANA9ke*vzKE5SbAydhYc4FimBfSJxsYv1DomjZaERx6SUnhoOtnw4i6z3t*ItHfAgycOJtVq8bORy!1CuFsjTYEi7vAIJEZBCD*2zYnuhvLQCVqTX6ZVOEq9IbPt98tpVZWUBAGnjXcokCTW96aQ/poor%20Tucker.JPG?dc=4675396331734847681[/img]

[quote name='eric']Why should we kill ourselves keeping the dogs quiet when our neighbors make absolutely no effort to keep their teenage kids quiet. If I have to listen to screaming profanities and music, then you can put up with 10 seconds of barking.[/quote] I agree with this in theory since the kids in my neighborhood are a bunch of thugs, too, and I have to listen to obnoxious kids and their loud music yet have to try to keep my dogs quiet. It sucks. However, it's not as likely that you're going to throw poison bait at these kids (even if they would eat it), or have their parent's right to "own" them taken away. I worry (with good reason in my 'hood) about having a frustrated neighbor throw poison over my fenced unnoticed. I work very, very hard at keeping my dogs quiet. Not because I like my neighbors, or even respect them. It's because I don't want to lose my dogs. My dream is to one day own enough acreage to let my dogs out to bark until they can't bark anymore. Eric, I share your frustration. It's just that my paranoia trumps my frustration. :oops:

Just reading your post wore me out, Tammy! :o Glad it all worked out. It's about time for mine to start doing heartworm tests again and I always hate it (not to mention paying for tests for ten dogs). :P