courtnek

That's just WONDERFUL!!! :angel: :angel: I would definitely take him in, not only to show him off, but to show all the people who work their rear-ends off (mostly as volunteers) at the shelter that Jerry is a SUCCESS STORY!! And all their hard work paid off in this case. It makes them very happy to see the stories that end like this. Makes it all worthwhile....and takes some of the pain out of the losses, too.... :angel:

dont worry - as she gets older the muscles in the ears will take hold and they will stand naturally. They have you tape them so that the "position" of the ears are correct when the muscles kick in. Some other croppers may be more help, but I have been told that all you can do is remove the tape and check them to make sure they will stand on their own without drooping for at least of day...but that's third hand info and may be incorrect. You can probably find a website with more info. She really is a cutie..... :D

yes, tigers in the wild are solitary. However, these tigers have never been in the wild, they have been raised in groups by S&R...since birth. They stsill have the instincts of a tiger, obviously, just like housecats. However, both S&R are known for playing with the tigers, laying down with them, swimming with them. Seeing one of them go down in front of him would not be that unusual, since that's part of the way they are trained. Siegfried was behind the stage when Roy started to fall, and saw the cat grab him by the arm, as if to stop his fall. His arm was in no way mauled, I would think he would have been bitten if he was under attack. At that point, according to S, all hell broke loose. He and the handlers all came running out, people in the audience were screaming, the cat became paniced and dragged Roy off stage, accoeding to S, he let him go backstage and that was when they set off the fire extinguishers. I dont believe the handlers did anything wrong, they didnt know the tigers intentions, but I also dont believe he would have killed Roy. Like I told K, he COULD have killed him with the first bite on his neck, but he didnt. The wounds werent deep enough for a kill bite. I still maintain that this was an accident. Their history with the animals backs me up, since none of them have ever been hurt by the cats before. Also, in the article where S tells this story, at one point they said it was thought that Roy had a stroke after the attack....confirmed byt the doctors, but my thought is....what if he actually had the stroke on stage? That would account for his tripping on stage (he is not clumsy) and might also account for why the cat wanted to take him somewhere safe. Perhaps the bond he has with these cats made them want to get him out of the crowds, off the stage, when he sensed that something bad had happened to his best friend..... Just my thought. I guess we wont know until Roy can tell us....

[quote]Your letter is starting a pitbull arguement "Kill them all!" ..... That's what I get for being on a catforum lol... [/quote] Tell them they'd best be careful - If PETA succeeds in their attempts to have all Pitbulls destroyed, and wins at having S&R's cats taken away, ALL CATS might be the next on their list....after all, cats are less domesticated than dogs.....they may decide it's time to return Tabby and Morris to the wild, too..... Be careful what you wish for....you just might get it....

I also think we should all email PETA, and tell them to F*** off... :lol:

CROSS-POST! CROSS-POST! CROSS-POST!! :lol: No, I dont mind. This message has to get out....that cat CANNOT be harmed, I dont care what anyone says...Roy says NO!! so NO!! it is!!

On a serious note, it would be just WRONG to try to put these cats back in the wild...they have been raised since weaning by S&R...people are an intracle part of their lives, they have never lived without them. They are very attached to S&R, they are part of the cats "family unit"..... you take them away, and they would probably not survive...not just because of lack of hunting skills, but because tgheir whole lives have had humans in them. They love S&R...it would be like taking my cat and throwing him out on the street, yea, he might make it...would he be happy? I doubt it....he would remember being loved, cared for, and catered to...like S&R's tigers...Is it right to do that? I cant answer that. But it's done, and the welfare of the cats has to be looked after...

[quote]But ya never know, the tiger just might like the spoiled life better [/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: what cat WOULDN'T??? I'd be AFRAID of my cat if he was 600 lbs... and the spoiled life? OH YEAH, They LOVE it...cats like things easy. They dont want to do anything more difficult than cleaning themselves.... :lol: :lol:

I sent this to both PETA< and the Mirage,,, Your story on S&R is basically bullshit.... Roy already stated that he knows the tiger is not to blame, and wants the animal left unharmed....the LAST thing he said before passing out..... I would think HE would know whether he was attacked or not, considering he's been raising and training these animals for 30 YEARS!!!! Longer than PETA has been around....and S&R have a documented reputation for how well they treat their cats.... PETA has to get their hands in every pie, although they arent doing any good with this particular BITCH... If S&R want the animals to remain unharmed, and with them, no one can stop them. They OWN these animals. If my dogs bit me, the law could not take them away unless I asked them to. And Roy is NOT going to file a complaint against the tiger, you can bet on it. As long as his tigers are not a threat to the populace, they cant be removed if Roy lives. Maybe even if he dies, I'm sure Siegfried would have a say in that, since they are half his and Roy has specifically requested that no harm come to them.... Instead of harassing Roy, they should be APPLAUDING on the kind, decent, ethical treatment he has always given ALL his animals. He treats those cats better then some people treat their kids.... These men have been KINDLY raising, training and caring for these animals for over 30 years. They DO NOT beat them, chain them, abuse them....Roy keeps them IN HIS HOUSE, they are like children to him....The reputation of S&R for the excellent care of their animals is both well known, and documented. His stage cats COULD NOT be returned to the wild, they have been raised with humans and no nothing about hunting, or living without humans. They are spoiled rotten by the loving care that S&R give them, every day....they consider S&R as part of their family, their close-knit group. You want to seperate them? You really dont care about how the cats might feel about that. Of course, you want all the Pit Bulls in the world killed too.... I think you should take the "Ethical" out of your title... I believe you're only in it for the money.... Also, it's now believed that the tiger was trying to HELP Roy, not hurt him. Stew on that, wont you? Katy Courtney Elgin, IL. [email]courtnek@wideopenwest.com[/email] I really dislike PETA, from the bottom of my soul.

I would go with getting the floppy ones removed. "True" Dew claws, like was mentioned, have a pad that's attached to bone and muscle, and dont flop. It's a claw just like all the others, coming out from a claw pad. I have seen dogs with the floppy ones, that have no pad attachment, and I can see where that would be trouble as far as tearing.... Laurels (by the way, for some reason I said she only has back ones, she has them on all four) the claws themselves were removed, but the pads are still there... someone asked where they are... On the front feet, the are up about 3 inches (depending on the dog of course) from the back of the foot pad, so the are actually attached to the leg. On the back feet. they are up higher and to the side, left side for left and right side for right. The back dews are for cornering, the front for grabbing on a stride run.... hope that helps. :)

[quote]but save him?...or he is down and now he is prey?...I know which my money is on.. [/quote] K, I have to disagree. Yes, they are wild animals, and yes, we can never know what they are really thinking, however, if he considered Roy prey, he would have killed him, right then and there. He already had him by the neck, and that's how tigers kill their prey. A deep and savage bite to the spinal cord, to immobilze it, and then they basically eat their prey alive. Sorry if that's too graphic. If he had wanted to kill Roy, he could have, easily. He had enough time to drag him off the stage, to an area backstage, where he then let him go and stood over him (according to the videos and siegfreid) until the staff set off the fire extinguishers to scare him away. At which point he ran into his own cage. Also, although he grabbed Roy's arm, there was mo mention of his teeth ever breaking flesh, which they would have if it was an attack... Siegfried saw the whole thing, and agrees that the tiger was actually trying to help, and also confused by all the noise and the panic. Roy cant talk yet, but he talks to Siegfreid with hand signals, and head nods, and has basically determined Roy was correct in requesting that no one hurt the cat. Roy himself feels that he was not attacked.... As far as returning them to the wild, they dont return their stage cats (they are too spoiled, and would probably not make it in the wild) but they do contribute lots of money to the Wildlife Associations worldwide to rehome animals to the wild. That's another one of the reasons everyone respects them. Of course, the story may change again in the next few days. When/If Roy is able to talk, he will certainly tell his side of the event.

Thank you Carol...S&R's tigers are raised from kittenhood, and basically spoiled rotten by most peoples standards... :lol: :lol: they live in their house, they also have a HUGE ground where they canrun free, and be tigers. at night. some of them come in and get spoiled (mostly by Roy) who uses them as pillows IN HIS LIVING ROOM!!!! There are documented pictures of Roy LAYING on them!!! AND THEY LOVE IT!!! Which is why I was so surprised to hear one of them hurt him...

For anyone who didnt hear the story... Roy was supposedly atacked by one of his trained tigers during a show on Friday. He grabbed Roy by the back of the head and dragged him off stage. His neck was punctured, and he is in critical condition... All along people have been saying that the tiger "attacked him", which has NEVER happened in the 30 years that he has been training tigers. NO ANIMAL has ever mauled him before.... They have the tiger quarantined in the hotel, but the doctors could not understand why the tiger didnt kill him. Just grabbed him and dragged him off stage....also, Roy's last words before being taken to the hospital were "dont hurt the cat....not his fault..." The doctors investigated the bite wounds, and then went through all the video tapes that were taken (the room and everything in it is under constant surveillance) and figored it out. Roy had tripped onstage, and started to fall....Seigfried and the handlers came running out...the tiger grabbed Roy's arm, and then when he fell, the tiger would not let go. Roy smacked him on the nose with the mike. He then grabbed Roy by the neck (like he woulod grab a kitten or another tiger in need) and dragged him offstage, then released him when he thought Roy was safe....from the puncture wounds in his neck and the video's they have determined that the tiger was actually trying to help him....stop his fall by grabbing his arm, and then take him somewhere safe after he had fallen and couldnt get up.... the doctors said the "bites" were in line with the amount of pressure a cat would put on another by grabbing it by the nape....only Roy didnt have a nape.....the cat didnt know that and was trying to protect him the only way he knew how....by dragging him away by the nape of his neck to safer ground.... Somehow, ROY knew...as shown by his last uttered sentence before going unconcious..... FYI - no one in the Seigried and Roy show has ever been injured by an animal, and those animals are treated better than some people treat their children....and that's documented.... I hope Roy pulls through. He;s still in critical condition, but gets a little better every day.

My all-time favorites are Charlie Brown and Snoopy..... Calvin and Hobbs....(his imaginary tiger CRACKS ME UP)

Have a GREAT time Rowie... couldnt you take Rowie-the-pooh as a spectator? instead of a contestant? you might get some good tips on how to prepare her for the next show...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I had a cat that could open any door ever invented, including the front door unless the bolt lock was on.... if they want something bad enough, they'll figure it out!!! sneaky, arent they??? :lol:

I'm glady Cody's training went so well....Good for him!! on another note, I had a friend with a cat called Dawg....she wanted a dog but lived in an apartment that wouldnt take dogs.... :lol:

[quote]OMG! They Fight Back"!!!! When we left Sassy made a wide circle around the cat [/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: they usually have to learn the HARD way....Mine always have... "It's so small, it's no threat....I can chase it!! what fun!!" After having been slapped, bitten on the nose, hissed at, harassed and generally abused (in a very sneaky manner, sneak up behind them and nip them on the ear while they're sleeping, he's just EVIL sometimes) both dogs will get up and out of the way of the cat when he walks in the room....some of them just have a way of reigning supreme.... :lol:

she seems like a good breeder - I was reading the reference letters. But of course, check all the medical facts, hip dysplacia, certified for known golden ailments....but up front, she seems really good. I would check with her references and the AKC...any problems would have been reported to them. Good Luck Rowie!!! :D

mousetraps on the back of the couch and the windowsil, covered with a sheet. when he steps on them they will snap, (fold the sheet a few times to make sure the moustraps dont come in contact with him) and usually the noise and the shock will prevent more attempts. you may have to do it a few times tho....also, this excludes you from the correction. it seems to the dog that couch is fighting back

Dogs, and wolves, dont have many natural enemies, except MAN..... Wolves are predators, the hardness of their life is enough to keep it short. And nature provides them with natural "birth control" by onlt letting the alpha's and sometimes the beta's breed. grooming of course depends on the dog. Mine dont need any except an occasional bath and brushing. Habitat is hopefully in a good home with decent people who love it and care for it. I would go with Mutts idea on the enemies...US...BSL, Breed predudice, ignorance....

I thought I mentioned this, but maybe not.... The dew claws have to be maintained, even more so then the regular claws. They only get worn down, because they only touch the ground, when the dog is running at "stride". Running at a speed that stretches both front and back legs to the maximum. When they're running at stride, and rounding sharp corners (picture a wolf pack on the hunt) they put so much weight on the foot that the dew claws touch ground and grip, preventing slide. In the wild, and often in strenuous agility, the dews get worn down naturally, just like the regular claws. If they are not worn down, and not cut, they will curl under, like any other nail, especially in a dog that does not do a lot of running. so if you decide to keep them, you have to keep them trimmed. Alot of the dew claw rips I have seen were on dogs that were not kept trimmed, and if the dog is not running alot and at full stride, they should be kept cut short.

YEAH!! GO FOR IT!! It's a shame no one else realized it, before this happened.... I am curious to know WHY he felt he had to do this...he could just be a sick kid emotionally...or he could be a kid who abuses animals, and may end up on America's Most Wanted... AFTER he's killed a few people.... too many psychology classes, I guess.....

depends on the dog. Some only have front dew claws, some have both front and back. Breeding has alot to do with it...My malamute mix had dew clothes on all fours...snow dogs use them for better gripping on ice and snow..that is their purpose... Freebee (lab mix) has none. Laurel (foxhound, and field dog) only had them on the back. I think nature decides, outside of breeding...

yes, they can be torn...and it is painful, which might explain why the handler had them removed. Like I said, they are useful only if the dog is going to be field trialed, or agility run. In a dog that just lays around and doesnt run much, they are a hindrance....they are easily caught on things and torn, cause they kinda stick out a little. To people unaware of their purpose, they seem useless...but an animal who has to hunt for his survival finds them irreplaceable...and in the wild, or the field, they get worn down and dont need any special care. hope that helps.... :D