imported_Matty

I don't know much about temperment testing at all :D This person I was talking to had the CGC temperment test done on all of his dogs. He does obedience trials with his dogs and he gets the tests done on all of them, he has never had one that failed. He was just saying to me (of course I never end up getting correctly what people tell me, I have to see it on paper in order to remember any thing :lol: thats why I'm asking here). But, I do recall he did say that the CGC was more breed specific and they do not look at all the breeds the same, they allow for certain allowances. What may not be allowed for a Golden or a Newf may be acceptable for an Staff terrier or Rottie. To me it kinda makes sense. I will check into this further for my own benefit with one of the key testers. Thanks for your replies. And perhaps they are just pulling my leg :wink: I didn't know there was a difference between ATTS or the CGC testing at all.

I am just wondering if when they test for temperment do they test differently for each breed? I was talking to some one who has had many of their dogs tested for temperment and they said that depending on the breed they are tested for different things. He said that if it was a gaurd dog or terrier there were certain allowances for them. He said if it were a breed like a Newfoundland they were a bit more strict with testing and one Newfoundland dog failed because it didn't react to any thing, for me I would think that was a good stable dog, but, what do I know :roll: I was just wondering as I saw on the ATTS Breed Statistics that the Caucasian Ovcharka got 100% percent score on temperment, I thought they were more of an aloof breed because they were bred to be a guardian breed and can be more prone to human aggression. On this page of the following website, it kinda answers my questions but not completely. In other words would a dog which has a high guarding instinct have more allowances than say a Newf or a Golden. Is there such a thing as failing for not showing any reaction at all. A person I spoke with said that a friend had taken in their Newf and it failed because it didn't react to any thing and fell asleep during the gun shot test. Is that true or is this person pulling my leg :-? [url]http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html[/url] [quote]The ATTS test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog's instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat. The test is designed for the betterment of all breeds of dogs and takes into consideration each breed's inherent tendencies.[/quote] [quote]The stranger is never closer than 10 feet from the dog. The handler's 2 foot arm and the 6' lead is added in for a total of 18 feet. Aggression here is checked against the breed standard and the dog's training. A schutzhund trained dog lunging at the stranger is allowed, but if an untrained Siberian husky does the same, it may fail.[/quote] So basically my question is just because a dog passes the CGC testing it doesnt really mean that it is the most sound dog of all breeds, just for its own breed as they are tested accordingly to breed standard?

I heard that pumpkin seeds kill parasites in dogs. What kind kind I don't know.

Thanks for sharing courtnek. It is nice to know this info for people who have diabetic dogs.

I kinda thought this article was interesting. I know the article is about humans. But I thought that people may be interested in this info in regards to their dogs as well. :D [url]http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA30265/[/url]

TDG you are so right :D I think people tend to forget that kibble wasn't growing on trees for our forefathers :lol: BTW, I really enjoy reading your posts :D

TDG, I do feed my dogs a variety in their diets including fresh foods and some times for convience I do also feed a kibble (wellness/and solid gold). I have never had any skin problems or health problems (nutrition related) with my own dogs. I just get so confused at times because you read on one place about feeding proteins and balanced meals and cutting back on grains. Then the other night I was reading WDJ and the Golden owner had written in to the WDJ saying about feeding less protein as she said this is the reason dogs were having problems and she said all the skin problems on the rescues cleared up with less protien. I don't have the copy in front of me but, if you want to read what she said I will get that info for you and the issue # (I think I read that you subscribe to WDJ). You do make alot more sense than any one else who writes about dog nutrition. I guess I just read different things and get a little confused at times. Thank for responding.

TDG, I read some where that high protein in diets can cause hot spots? I read it in one of the WDJ issues a breeder of Goldens who does rescue said that many goldens she had rescued and had major skin issues cleared up real quick by reducing protein in the diet. She mentioned that high protein is good for a dog working but not for the typical house dog??? :o I am just curious. I'll try to find that article to reread it. I might be wrong or may be misconscrewed the information. I think she said 30% protein was too high for house dogs. I am just wondering if this may be a reason some of these dogs suffer from hot spots and skin problems or is it just the total over all diet of the dogs in particular. I also read some where on a Dr Weil website that too high of carbs cause skin problems. I am so confused.

TDG, that is wonderful to have the terrier look without the terrier prey drive :D Debbie, typically JRT's have a high prey drive and were used for hunting. Of course most show types are watered down and not bred with the drive of their hunter counter parts. Any dog with a high prey drive can live with a cat or small pet, just because they have a high prey drive doesnt mean they are going to go around trying to kill all small animals :D BUT, and a big BUT here :D a dog with a high prey drive (bred to have the full series of prey sequences) can be more unrealiable around moving prey objects out side of their home. For instance most of my dogs with high prey drives have been wonderful and loving with my cats and rabbits and even out side the home they were wonderful with confident cats and other small animals. But, have the small creature run away, it automatically triggered predatory drift and led to the chase.

Thanks for the opinions. I thought at one time that it was the owners attitude toward the death of the other dog. But, it sounds as though our dogs do feel greif over the lose of a loved one. [quote]I know my Sassy loves playing with her sisters, but I have a feeling she'd love to be an only child.....errrr..I mean dog !! [/quote] :lol: Debbie, I think this is the same reason my dogs didnt greive :lol: I think basically deep down in my evil little dogs minds they were glad to be the only dog for a little while :D

Bravo Rotten_two, bravo. (clapping hands in response) Also Bravo Kat :D Positive training has long term results where as forced based training may seem like its working but in the end it creates a distrustful dog. The hardest dogs to train are dogs which have been through forced based training.

Hi, I was just wondering about a topic which just came up with a few of my doggy friends. One of my friends said that she was really ticked off when she had her older dog euthanized as the vet would not allow her to bring her other dog for the procedure. She said the only way for the other dog to get over the death of the dog PTS was to see it and see the dog dead. She said that in a pack the dogs dealt with death by seeing it and moving on. She said that her dog which was left never recovered from the loss of the other dog and slowly got sick with depression and started all sorts of problems stemming from depression. like licking itself raw and stuff. Now, for me, I have had dogs PTS before and it has never seemed to affect my remaining dog. I cried myself silly before going home, put on a act of nothing is wrong and life went on as normal. So, my question. The remaining dog which seems to be sad and depressed over the dog which was PTS. Is it sad and depressed because of the loss of the other dog, or the new mood of the owner. The owner being depressed makes the dog depressed???? I have had many dogs which have been litter mates and grown up together and loved and played and spent every second of the day together and never have the suffered the loss like my friends dog did. They just picked up on my cue and how I felt at the time. What does every one else think, am I wrong and my friend right. Or are my dogs just abnormal?

The one thing I learned with dealing with dog aggression is to use positive training. A dominant dog or pup suddenly thrown onto its back in front of another pup or dog may become defensive in the future. I also found with some dogs that by punishing them for barking, lunging and other bad behaviors doesnt teach the dog not to do it, it only surpresses the options for doing it. So, next time instead of giving a growl, saying the dog had been punished for growling it may instead go from a normal stance into a full blown attack next time. I may be completely wrong on this :D I only speak from experience from my own dogs. Instead of punishing my dogs for being aggressive or dominant I usually let them work it out on their own. For a pup, I have left a pup with an older experienced dog which has taught the pup how to be socially proper. Pups and dogs need to learn social etiquette (I know my spelling sucks). A dog which doesnt learn how to act properly around other dogs can become defensive or offensive. So for me, I have always praised my pups when they do some thing right and redirected the wrong behavior into a right behavior. For instance a dog walking by another lunges and tries to attack. I start to carry treats and teach my dog that the treats are in my treat purse (carried around my waist) when I see the other dog coming I start putting my hand on my treat purse, this gets my dog exicted and it calms him down. While passing the other dog I give treats on the way by and praise for such wonderful behavior. Instead of stressing the dog out and attacking the dog or yanking on a choke I am teaching the dog to be calm and not to get stressed out. Dogs learn behaviors and proper social behavior by positive training, negetive training can put a pup or dog on guard and make it tense. negetive training may seem like its working but, in the long run it is only ruining the dog. If I were upset or nervous or saw a situation which I was getting tensed up about and my friend started wacking me or pulling my hair I would still have the issues of the moment plus dealing with my friend being mean to me. In the end I would not have learned any thing but to be more upset or nervous. I know I don't make alot of sense. Hopefully Kat will clear things up for you and explain to you about proper training. :D

I don't know of any. Are they not a newer breed? you may have to ship one overseas.

One thing else Id like to add (having had 2 males which fought and over came it). I made sure that my attitude changed, when the dogs got into a fight I stayed calm and kept a peice of plywood close by to seperate them. I used to get freaked out when they got into it, now I don't and the calmness I feel has reflected on my dogs. I also took them seperately to obedience and formed a special bond with each dog seperately. I also used the NIFIL policy at all times with both males, never let them get into a stressful situation (like out in a fenced area where they might be aroused by out side things which can lead to fence fighting then redirected aggression). Any thing that caused stress in my dogs life I stopped doing. I stopped letting one of my males sleep with me and got them both beds for the floor. I stopped getting really excited when coming home or greeting them and getting them stressed out and possible get jealous and start a squabble. I fed the dogs seperately in seperate rooms, had them sit before getting attention from me. Never gave them any thing they felt worth guarding, gave them alot more exercise and having them exhausted in the evening. For my guys, I found out what in their life was stressing them out. By reducing their stress and changing my attitude and voice tone and body language I was able to destress the dogs life. They now live happily ever after :wink: When I think of it I never ever gave firsts to one dog in particular and I didn't do any pack ranking between the dogs. I just let them figure it out on their own. Some days I fed one dog first, the other day I fed the other one. The key is is finding out what is stressing them out, and some times it takes an outsider to figure it out like a behaviorist. :wink:

One last thing, most times with behaviors such as this we the owners have encouraged it. We get excited, and get a high squeeky voice and get our dogs so aroused and excited they are just about jumping out of their skins. If you don't mind this sort of behavior and find it wonderful and special to have such an enthusiastic greeting then so be it. If it drives you nuts then try to make greetings and departures much more calm and subdued. We owners 98% of the time unknowningly teach our dogs these behaviors and then expect them just to know that we have grown tired of the behavior or it is no longer tolerated. Good luck to you, and remember, change the tone of voice, ignore the dog for a few minutes when you first come home, come down to the dogs level for a proper greeting, don't make the dog have to jump up to your level to greet you. That is one thing I found worked on my small breed dogs, to come down to them to greet them :wink: Have your friends practice the same greetings with your dog and you will have a dog which will soon learn the proper way to greet and get belly rubs. :D

From what I understand from talking to different breeders of large breed dogs this is quite common. There are alot of large breed breeders who have to do AI's and have never been successful with a natural breeding. I also talked to some breeders who could throw a bitch in with a male in full season and not even have the male interested in her. Funny how that works, maybe they know some thing we don't. I guess this happens alot with many other breeds too such as old english bulldogs, newfoundlands, bullmastiff, oldenglish mastiff, danes etc.

Perhaps if you had yourself and others ignore her until she calms down a bit. Then have her sit and only make of her when she sits and gives a nice calm behavior. Kinda like rewarding the behavior you want. Dogs learn to display actions to get the most attention. If jumping up and acting like a ball of fire gets attention and laughing and a high pitched voice from owner then the dog will continue. I have gone as far as to change my tone of voice until my dogs learned to greet me properly. I have also crossed my arms and turned away from a bounding bouncing dog with a too far great enthusiastic greeting. You might also want to impliment the NIFIL policy just so your little bundle of joy learns a default behavior in times of stress.

meant to add, great advice courtnek

One more thing I might add, punishment even a harsh no is unacceptable to a dog which is fighting. I have learned that you have to work with the dogs and set a calm relaxed athmosphere for them removing the stressors in their life. It is a fact that a dog which is punished for some thing which they are doing be it stress or dominance is going to lash out. They don't understand why you are attacking them verbal or physical. 1. calm athmosphere, many people tend to esculate the level of arousal during a fight by getting upset & hyper. 2. Set standards for the dogs and reward acceptable behaviors. for example both dogs sitting in front of you reward big time. If all else fails you may want to rehome the little chi. It may be better off in a one dog home. I also did long downs with my 2 males side by side alot. I found that my body language made alot of impact on my dogs as well. :wink:

I would suggest the NIFIL policy. This really doesnt require a professional to teach the dogs to sit before getting any thing :D I had 2 males that used to fight, I had to find out what their trigger was (it was me :oops: ). I had to keep a peice of plywood to seperate them during a fight. I also took the advise of another dog person and stuck my finger up one of my males butts to stop a fight once too :lol: I found that if I came home, ignored both my dogs and went about my business, then came over with a treat and made them sit. I then would pat the one who seemed to be the aggressor first then pat the other. Then pat both at the same time. I could not give them any toys when they were together at all, I couldn't even let them know where the toys were kept as one of the males who guard that area. It can be done and over come. Of course the NIFIL policy is not going to be your cure all, but, it might help. It would be really nice when your back on your feet to have the help of a dog expert to help you figure out the triggers and how to destress the dogs life. Never punish the dogs for fighting,this can esculate the aggression. Punishing also can teach a dog to not show any warning signs and just go right into an attack. I am sure someone on this board will have better advise than I can give. All I know with my dogs is that I had to destress their life and figure out what was setting them off.

[quote]Somebody show me a responsible mix breed breeder.[/quote] AllAmericanPUP you do know that ALL of our purebreds are orginally mixes :D As Seijun mentioned there are many people who constantly mix dogs to make a good working dog. Look at the Alaskan Husky, they are mixes mainly border collie mixes. They are the best sled dogs. There are alot of good working dogs that are mixed.

What a wonderful picture. About the pig pellets, its just some thing I heard about. Supposedly the food is not some thing the dogs get food aggressive over as the value of the food is not that high.

Pumpkin musher, I was reading some where that some mushers feed their sled dogs pig pellets to avoid food aggression. Is that true??? :o Pumpkin, also what you said about the fish I know alot of people who feed raw fish to dogs and they do pretty well on it. I never have or will myself though, I still think its a bit risky. I was also reading a story about feral dogs in a village, the dogs lived off the fish heads and guts from the fishermen when they came back from fishing. They said they caught and vaccinated the same dogs every 5 years to vaccinate, so to me this implies that the dogs have a long life span. The reason they keep the feral dogs vaccinated is to keep other unvaccinated feral dogs away. The feral dogs they keep around keep the other dogs from the area and keep diseases from spreading. I guess its easier to keep a few dogs healthy then to have to deal with new ones each week :wink:

TDG, here is a link for you on the "fish" thing. I did not really read it yet, and its probably nothing that you don't already know :D [url]http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA/[/url]