TLCPETS

[quote name='Poofy']I am sitting on the edge of the razor on this topic. I think that they need rules, but the rules they have stink. Firstly, the USDA as well as local agriculture officials, already have more work then they can handle. They are so over worked that they can only "catch" the bad guys when they are liscensed...well...what if they don't get liscensed...they don't have the time or money to persue them...especially if they are breeding on a small scale. This is where I think that AKC should pick up the slack...they need to be willing to provide inspectors (CFA and TICA do it), for areas that have laws and need help inforcing them. I also think that the breed clubs and AKC ought to RE-WRITE the dog breeding rules, as it would apply to a breeder. Some of the requirements, right now, with my own state, make it very difficult to house dogs like I think they should be housed. The laws in my state are pretty lax too, compared to some...I dread what they might bring in if DDAL gets its way... Its all a bunch of bureaucracy. If those who were members of the national breed club, could be inspected by inspectors for the club, and be exempt from inspection from the state...I think that would help...but then we would be getting into another area, of possible polical agenda huh????[/quote] I also am very concerned and sitting on razors.My entire operation was built with my ex-inspecters help.But if we never agree on anything then it will go down to state by state having different rules to play by.It may be almost impossible to have a small number of dogs in one state while the neighboring state has almost no rules.

[quote name='Hobbit']TLC --- have you, you personally, actually read the Animal Welfare Act? Read the rules and reg's.[/quote] Well,I was licensed by USDA for quite a few years.Yes,I have read it a number of times.But since I never brokered or sold puppies wholesale why should I be classified like all USDA licensed breeders are tagged. [quote]Or are you going by what someone has told you? [/quote] I only know what my ex-inspecter told me and he was somehow under the impression it was an inevitability.He said the groups would never quit and had the money to keep it up as long as they needed to.

There are 1,000s of breeders out there who have over 100 dogs with no regulations.How do they fall in the loophole (retail pet store). Most retail pet stores have set hours and days of operation when anyone can go in and browse as long as they want.How many breeders have thier home open to the public like a retail pet store?

I have said this before but it might have been overlooked.When USDA was taking comments 2 years ago there were 30,000 for regulating breeders and 4800 against.From the number of comments it looks like the general public wants breeders regulated.There is nowhere near as many breeders as there are J.Q.Public.The majority is speaking here and breeders are not the majority.If left up to individual states then federal grants would be in order to enforce what the public wanted.

[quote]USDA is not an enforcement agency. Any confiscation would have to be done at the State level if delegated.[/quote] So why did DDAL petition USDA if they have no control?Don't lose me. Please. :drinking:

[quote name='Hobbit'][quote name='sandyb']I did also mean the rules and regulations. The AR fanatics want it to be enforced for ALL breeders. of course that is not possible considering all the one time breeders there are, breeding thier pets with no knowledge.[/quote] I am still not worried. I have worked for the government -- both at the Federal and State level. There simply is not enough inspectors to go around. There is not enough money to fund a project that would be of this magnitude. USDA has other more important issues concerning *human* lives. It may have to go to the Supreme Court and it well may pass. USDA will shake their heads and say, yes sir/yes ma'am, and it may take an inspector 20 years to get around to all the places that are perceived to be out of compliance.[/quote] Either way I think a lot of breeder will just stop breeding.A lot will not, but when/if they get caught they will have to pay the price.If it is placed in the (rules) they can confiscate the dogs if in violation they can start over but now they are (on the list).JMO.

[quote name='sandyb']I did also mean the rules and regulations. The AR fanatics want it to be enforced for ALL breeders. of course that is not possible considering all the one time breeders there are, breeding thier pets with no knowledge.[/quote] This is the hold-up.The DDAL from what my previous inspecter said wanted every-one with over 3 intact females regulated.He said USDA thought 30 intact females or less should not require regulations.I think AKC thinks anyone who has over 9 litters per year is high volume.So we have 3 different opinions.Where should the line be drawn to be fair for everybody?

How many dogs do you folks think a breeder should have before they should need regulations.I think 5 living in a barn outside or 5 living most of the day and night in pet taxies in the spare room/basement is too many.But 5 running through the house all trained or in a fenced back yard is admissible. But every-one has different opinions as to what should be permitted.Some-one has to make some rules for everybody.

I do not think the purpose of the AWA was to leave out breeders with 100s of dogs so the loophole was there for pet stores who do not breed.It got changed out of context somehow.There has to be a set minimum number of dogs a person can keep without falling under the AWA.

[quote].they don't have the time or money to persue them...especially if they are breeding on a small scale.[/quote] I think the small scale breeder will be left out of being regulated. There is a middle ground here and I think soon it will be worked out. But I think the home retail pet store clause will no longer exist.It is too big of a loophole for BIG breeders to not be regulated.As for persuing them it is not hard to follow up on a (tip) from a regulated breeder who is playing by the rules.

I wonder if it is ok to continue the USDA thread.This is a very important issue for every breeder.It does not look any better since the show breeder got arrested on the US border coming from Alaska with 171 dogs and no regulations.There are 1,000s of breeders out there who have over 100 dogs with no regulations.How do they fall in the loophole (retail pet store). Most retail pet stores have set hours and days of operation when anyone can go in and browse as long as they want.How many breeders have thier home open to the public like a retail pet store?

[quote name='sandyb']FLAMING? Sorry, that wasn't even close to flaming. Sorry, if he LIES I will call him on it. I was simply calmly stating facts, NOT flaming. he talked about how his dogs are breed standard and champions. Fact is they are not. I will NOT sit idlly by and let him lie. Sorry. It was NOT a flame in my opinion.[/quote] I do not usually reply to sandyb but she has NEVER saw my dogs. I said CH bloodlines as in 2 generations removed from the CH. So how was that a LIE?The standard is pretty easy to read unlike color genetics which I am beginning to grasp.

[quote name='Mei-Mei']to Sandyb-- No more personal attacks. Please. We are asking you politely here. We know what you think of TLC and I'm sure we've all formed opinions based on personal knowledge. When you hammer the point in over and over again I feel as though you assume we're stupid and [i]I am far from stupid.[/i] So please give it a rest. Let's all play nice now. :P[/quote] The pups I got from dreamerjo came from some from : [url]http://spicelynn.tripod.com/index-1.html[/url] As I said.I have some very nice dogs.Lynn seems to be a very nice person. She has emailed me and asked how I got her lines.I did not lie.I told her where I got them.I think they were outcrossed 2 generations but as long as they are outcrossed to good dogs there is nothing wrong with it.

[quote name='Watchdog']This appears to be a dog suffering from a vitamin B deficiency. I have seen this before and the dog had to take vitamin B regularly and the legs straightened up. I would not use this dog for breeding. WD[/quote] I am with you WD.I would not use this dog.My dogs have to be champions in my eyes.I am very critical.I love for people to see my dogs.They could possibly see a fault I overlooked.I think it is called kennel blind for terminology.

[quote name='Watchdog']I don't care who is a commercial breeder, a pet owner or BYB. I will share information with anyone willing to listen. When you share information concerning animals, breeding, genetics, etc. the animals benefit. I really dislike labeling. If people that have the knowledge refuse to share it, they pass up an opportunity to better the lives of many animals. I have found that when I am teaching others, I learn also. WD[/quote] Thanks.I am just reading and not posting much.I did not come to cause havoc.I just want to learn.

[quote]here is, I wish I could find the article, an institution right now, doing test breeding on liver shunts in Yorkies, I think. They want to purchase affected animals and animals with affected offspring and siblings, to try and test for the mode of inheretance. [/quote] I hope this helps.I remember the article. [url]http://www.vet.utk.edu/clinical/sacs/shunts_faq.html[/url]

[quote name='Hobbit']Well, I'd get spanked if I peed the floor......hum....spanked..... :o[/quote] And you should !!!!!!! Are you being bad,or ugly??? :evil:

[quote name='Jacsmom'] P.S. Never said I didn't make typos... Don't claim to be perfect, know all of dogs, know all of genetics, know all of anything, I copy and paste alot, it is me... I find it easier for me.. I am still learning and will learn things until the day I die... Everyone should that is why you continue to ask question and debate.. It is healthy (believe it or not). Never close off to knowledge because then you become dumb..(by the way I am not calling you dumb.. It is a generalization)[/quote] Thanks for renewing my faith.I thought I was the only one who didn't know everything.I may be dumb but in certain areas I may not be.I have done auto repair all my life.My uncle is a computer whiz but cant work on his car.Nobody knows everything.People can only specialize in certain areas. If you only use 25% of your mind you have to replace old information to learn new information.Wouldn't it be great if everyone could use 100% of thier mind and never forget!!!!!

It doesn't matter whence it came from.Some of you asked on another thread why test breedings were EVER neccesary.She just posted the answer to your questions.

Yes,AWA laws are hard.I was USDA licensed for exotics.Hedgehogs and sugargliders with 3 dogs.Everything on the premises falls under USDA when you have a license.It is not easy but with the judges waiting to give thier decision and the collie show breeder who just had all 172 of her collies confiscated on the canadian border it is not looking good for any breeder who is not USDA licensed.Personally, I think every breeder who sells one litter per year should be regulated by USDA.

How does it compute????APRI is growing by 14,000 litter/puppy/dog registrations per month and AKC is shrinking br about that number.Are you asleep??Could/would you be willing and able to be regulated by USDA?? The registry is beside the point.AKC has registered pet shop puppies for years and still does for that matter.The registry has nothing to do with a puppies quality.You should read the High Volume Committees report on AKC's website.It seems now they think commercial breeders have state of the art facilities.Strange, since last year they had a GUT AVERSION to some of the best facilities in the USA.

O.K. DDAL,PETA,AND HSUS did not join forces to get commercial breeders regulated by USDA.They already are.IF this goes through they know that 80% of the show/hobby breeders can not meet the minimum standards set by USDA. HOW strong will that leave AKC??????AKC fights for rights which if they were not very strong breeders would have a very hard time fighting.If they win and weaken AKC.Will AKC fold from lack of funds?Lots of questions at this time.I had rather be prepared.At least APRI requires AKC stud books unlike the others.APRI also cares about the customer/breeder. APRI is growing AKC is shrinking and without hobby/show breeders AKC could become very small.JMO.

Wake up and smell the coffee.You are the very reason DDAL sued USDA.Think about it.Commercial breeders are already covered by USDA regulations.If this passes if you have over 3 females you will be under USDA or no longer a breeder.Next time it will be every litter will have to be under USDA to be sold.USDA is not easy.Changes are coming.Change is a fact of life.JMO.

Yes ,GSD I think any-breed can be registered but APRI registered dogs have to have a link back to AKC stud books unlike the others.Think for a minuite if DDAL wins her suit against USDA there will be few breeders left.I do not think there will be enough breeders left to keep AKC afloat.AKC is now losing litter and registration applications by the 1,000s each month.The first judge has already ruled ALL breeders should be licensed by the animal welfare act.It is now just a matter of time until the appeal judges give a final ruling.When USDA was taking comments last year there was 30,000 wanting EVERY breeder regulated by USDA and 4,800 against breeders being regulated by USDA.The regulations are very hard and I think about 80% of hobby breeders could not abide by them.Could AKC have the power they have now if this goes through.All joking aside AKC did try to sway the first judge but she said AKC was not involved only DDAL and USDA.At this time we are awaiting the decision of the appeals judges.At the first hearing USDA said they were in the process of a RULE-MAKING change.DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANT?????

Yes, most brokers pay more for AKC registered puppies going to pet shops. So, the registry can not guarantee quality since they are only a registry.