DogPaddle

These are Roo's responses to Dark Mystery's posts in this and other threads in the breeding forum which she can't post here due to board problems, just thought I'd repost them here in case DM doesn't check the other section. [quote] I am sorry i have had to put this in everything about dogs section and not breeding section but i cant log in But i feel the need to address Dark Mystery's posts (Yes all of them ) so firstly. this one. Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:21 am Post subject: Help! A bad situation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am in a bad situation. My dog had some puppies. I took the pups in for a health check less than a week before I let the pups go. They all had a clean bill of health. The day the people came to get the pup we all saw blood come from her rear. I offered them a full refund or $100 to take it to the vet. They chose the $100 and take it to the vet in my city. The vet said it had colitis and gave them some antibiotics and they deciced to take the puppy home with them which they live out of state. I told them I would pay for drugs to treat the pup. Well, the pup is worse and they took it to the vet again. They took the pup which they knew was sick, even taking it to the vet before they left town on my dime. Since they took a puppy with the full knowledge it was sick, how responsible am I? I offered them a refund of the money they had given me and they turned it down. I did not try to talk them into taking the puppy or anything close. I feel bad about the pup, but do not know how much I owe them since they knew it was sick. I guarantee the pups but what about in this case? Help. AN ILL OR EVEN OFF COLOUR PUPPY SHOULD NOT LEAVE THE NEST UNTILL IT IS 100% how responsible are you? TOTALLY. Oh and what happened to the puppy????????????? Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:07 am Post subject: "Backyard breeding" & "puppymills" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just have to say that some people really go overboard with the backyard breeder and puppymill thing. Not everyone can have acres of land and a actual "kennel" facility. You can build a nice area in a backyard. You could even in a garage. In a garage it is even indoors and they might have cooling in summer and heat in winter! Even an official "kennel" facility can be ill kept. Just having an official facility does not guarantee fantastic animals. News flash, even people competing in Crufts and other big shows have been charged with animal abuse and p*** poor environmental conditions. And for some reason, some people think you have to show in order to be legit and have good dogs. People in Crufts have had winning dogs, but do not take proper care of them. Then there could be someone who has dogs in there backyard, loves them, cleans, gives them fresh water in a clean green free bowl, takes them to the vet, gives them heat in winter, brushes them if they need to be and you call them "backyard breeders". It isn't right or fair. Maybe some do not breed on a grand scale and do not need a complete "kennel" facility. Breeding dogs for profit is another issue. Well,those that do have an official "kennel", they are running an official business. They have a tax ID #, and are registered with AKC! And here in the US, business is for profit...capitalism. Think of a restaurant. Some are big & fancy and some are a little dive mom and pop place. Does that mean the dive restaurant is evil and no one should eat there? Only eat at the fancy restaurant? No. Some have a fancier facility for there dogs than others. That does not mean don't buy from the place that has dogs in the backyard. And MANY kennels breed more than one breed too. They have a good number of dogs. Hummm. Doesn't that make them a puppymill? Ok. So, What you are calling "breeders" really sounds more like a non-profit organization. Those people really aren't breeders. These are people that every so often mate there dogs! It really isn't to make dogs for people to own and enjoy. People should be able to own a certain breed and of course you try and put them in good homes. A spanish inquisition is not necessary. Like I said, people have really gone crazy throwing out these "backyard breeder" and "puppymill" labels. People that do are acting as if they are higher than thou & self-rightous. People put down others just to give themselves a feeling of being better than. Now, there are puppymills out there. You know, the ones that do not give health care to there dogs, crowd them, give them no heat or cooling, no love and they live in cages all the time nor nearly all of the time. The label backyard breeders was made up by the higher than thou's that realized not all were not puppymills but still were not as high up as what you laid out in your message. So, you had to come up with some kind of label for those not as good as you. What you laid out as "breeders" aren't even breeders in the first place! They shouldn't even call themselves breeders!!! Yes it is commonly known that not all dog owners be they show breeders, commercial breeders, BYB, puppy farmers or mills do not give their dogs the correct care and housing that they need to, the same can be said about many many pet homes. Usually in the pet homes section it is due to ignorance, i am afraid in the breeding section it is due to no ethics or morals. And it is also true that some TOP BREEDERS are also puppy farmers and commercial breeders who breed many other breeds to finance their top dogs. I assume from your ranting post that someone has called you a BYB! Could it be the person who owned the puppy in the post above? Many people think breeding dogs is easy money, fun, and do not even know or understand about breeds, type, standards, breed problems, responsibility of the breeder, the stud dog owner or anything else for that matter. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE I CALL BACKYARD BREEDERS, but that is my opinion I think i will agree with you that the term BYB is thrown around alot. But i will also tell you that most purebred dogs that end up in shelters come from those breeders. WHY? because they are not careful enough who buys their pups, they offer no aftercare, support , they just want the money end of conversation......I know where ALL the dogs i have bred over the years are, i know when they die, i know when they are ill, i have only ever had to take one back, and that was due to circumstances beyond the owners control. In the pack that goes out with the pups i do always have these words written in, PLEASE REMEMBER YOU MAY HAVE PURCHASED THIS PUPPY FROM US BUT IT IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE ONE OF OUR BABIES, WE NEED CONSTANT UNDATES, PHOTO'S. IF AT ANY TIME YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PUPPY, BE IT BIG OR SMALL RING US ANYTIME DAY OR NIGHT, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR. I wouldn't call myself a self-righteous show breeder, i would call myself a responsible ethical moral breeder who cares about what they breed and where they go. I also have no time for BYB who will not learn or listen and do not care (although they often think they do) Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:09 am Post subject: About "breeders" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- People out there call themselves "breeders" when they really aren't. They think that because they have a litter every now and then it means they are a breeder. They have a litter with the intent of keeping one or two for there showing career. The rest of the pups go to other homes. Well, the dictionary says,"breeder: one that breeds : an animal or plant kept for propagation". Sounds to me like these folks are not keeping these animals for propagation. So lets have these people stop calling themselves breeders because they are NOT. They make people believe that if they do not do it how they do (when they aren't even true breeders by definition), they are PM's and BYB's! Now, one other thing. I have seen auctions being condemned and the people selling that way. I personally have reserved my opinion on the subject, but have thought a lot about it. Horses, cows, pigs, and other animals are sold at auctions all the time. I also know there are shows of horses, cows, chickens. I've seen the awards for them. Dogs get awards too for showing and being the top dog. What makes the dogs a different class? Because they live in our house and chickens, pigs and horses don't? A breeder friend of mine in Washington state actually refers to her dogs as "livestock". That to me means there is no affection. She saw them just like you would see a cow or pig or whatever. Yet, a dog is an animal just like they are. We just seem to have more of a affectionate feeling for them. I guess this is what seems to make them a class above other animals. Yes? And therefore to be sold and bred on a different level? I would very much like to hear what others have to say about this subject. People who you say are not breeders, obviously breed to keep something else to show, they are obviously trying to breed to the STANDARD, trying to improve............ they are the GUARDIANS OF THE BREED, they are the CUSTODIANS they try to protect the breed from irresponsible, ignorant people who dont know what they are talking about andare not interested in learning. As to auctioning of dogs, in this country UK, it is against the Kennel Clubs code of ethics. I for one agree with that. Why? because i think it is imoral and unethical. There are plenty of dogs in shelters and breed rescues throughout the world, and if IDIOTS would stop pumpimg out puppies and selling them to anyone this may stop a bit of the sadness inflicted on the general public and the caring people out there. WAS THAT SELF RIGHTEOUS FOR YOU :lol: [/quote]

Roo - I will post this in the breeding forum for you, just in case. Respond where you can and I will copy if you like.

Yay Coal! I must get something to attatch my next clicker to me too. I lost my first one in three days. :lol:

Darkmystery - I repeat from the prev Backyard Breeders & Puppymill thread: [quote]Which of these statements do you have a problem with: Quote: 1. Not going to make a profit. 2. Breed rarely. 3. Are concerned with the betterment of the breed. 4. Are very selective as to who their pups go to. 5. Do all nec. health checks. 6. ARE THE PEOPLE WHO MANY OF US LOOK TO GET OUR PETS FROM. 7. Spend plenty of time with their dogs and treat them like valued members of their household and produce well socialized pups. [/quote] Which of these things do you think are wrong? And why do you think this?

Call it what you want but churning out scads of pets when shelters are overflowing without doing vet checks, certifications, and breeding for the betterment of the breed is IMO wrong. Labels are just that, it doesn't matter what you call it.

He thinks your barking at him??

Oh Colleen, I'm sorry your having this difficulty. It sounds like your doing the right things so the only other thing I can suggest is the vets and the behaviourist. Maybe someone else can offer more info?

Hope it works for you. Kavik is not to messy but he never seems to remember to drink, when you point out the water bowl to him he drinks a lot - sortof like he keeps forgetting that when you are thirsty you go to the bowl and drink. :roll:

Seems pretty good, if they like it and do well on it I'd stick with it.

Maybe she is still feeling peaky and off her food. When my mom's pup was ill she had to have RAW and it was very difficult getting her back on kibble. Mum eventually opted to stick with RAW due to the health benefits.

Kiwi - NP. Do you think darkmystery will be back?

Average life span for a BC is 11-14 years. I figure with good care Kavik should see 15 barring any accidents. He is almost 2 now. (13 years left) Chows average life expectancy is 8-11 years and Labs is 10-12, so with good care I'm hoping Zaphod will see 12. He is a year old now. (11 years left) My cats are 12 years old and their life expectancy is 15-19 years although their have been siamese as old as 33 :o from what I've read, so I figure I'm pretty safe hoping for 24? (12 years left) That being said, I am not looking forward to 2014-2017, could be quite a period of loss.

Excellent suggestions!

I think there is a thread on this elsewhere. Apparently they have to manufact plants and the one in the States had some bad lots so they are shipping some in from their plant in Montreal till they figure it out. I hope they do get it sorted out because it is an excellent food.

I agree with Black GSD, you don't want to "untrain" your pup by allowing him/her to make mistakes on your bed, it may turn into a hard habbit to break.

Wow, that certainly would be a tough subject to broach, I can't even give my mom advice on what breeder to go to. I think you should try because if your mom has done such a good job so far she certainly can't want things to go awry now. Best of Luck, sorry I don't have a suggestion on how to go about it.

Kiwi and Bulldog Miss - Maybe I'm wrong but I think your both on the same side? I think you agree on the basic primary goals of a good breeder and that profit should be the last consideration if it is considered at all. I think all Kiwi is saying is that there is a [i]possibility[/i] that a breeder might make a small profit if their dog has, by chance, a couple larger litters over their lifetime (no profit though I imagine if you factor in showing, travel costs, lifetime care for the parent dog etc.) If a breeder does [b]everything right [/b]and[b] happens [/b]to make a couple bucks it doesn't mean they are a bad breeder, right?

Those dishes will be fine, don't worry.

Pet stain/ordour remover? Definately get the kong toy, crate, and stainless steel dishes - maybe no tip dishes or dishes in a stand especially if your pup is like Zaphod. :roll: Maybe discuss with the breeder what food the pup is on before you buy food, even if you are going to switch foods you'll want to do it gradually. As for puppy on the bed: you may not be able to do this till puppy is house trained. Whether or not puppy can sleep on the bed after this depends a lot on your expectations and the puppy's dominance level. With a very dominant pup you may want to enforce your dominance but not allowing it on the bed, otherwise it may be ok as long as you don't mind dog hair on your pillow. :lol:

:klacz: :thumbs: Labadore!

I also advocate letting them work out their own pack heirarchery on the own, the sooner they do, the sooner they'll calm down a bit. The only time I would generally interfere is if someone looks like they might get hurt or if they are going to ruin something in the house or if one dog has clearly submitted and the other dog carries on for a while. Maybe I missed it in prev. posts - are they fixed?

Good for Sassy!

Puppies go through energy very quickly and they need a steady supply of energy not big ups and downs. Puppies of wild dogs are more likely to get more small meals rather than one larger meal. Zaphod who is nearly a year, I think. Still gets 2 meals a day, and in fact lately I have been going towords more feedings with less per feeding or shorting one of his meals and put the rest of it in his treat ball that he gets in between his two meals. Zaphod thinks we are trying to starve him and behaves as though he is always really hungry (part lab) so this is one way to keep him contented. Incidently, Zaphod has invented his own way to request feedings, I merely named the behaviour - "Dinner Dish Dance" he spins and jumps. If I say "Dinner Dish Dance" now he will do it and run all the way to the dish. :lol:

To give our cats ear drops we would wrap them snuggly in a towel or blanket - wrapping them up sortof like a burrito all legs clearly inside, but tucking one end over their shoulders to more securly contain those clawed front legs. Then you tuck your little burrito under your arm, position head (and possible hold ear flap back or try to hold eye open - don't know how well that would work) with opposite hand and then administer drops with same arm that is tucking the burrito. Please keep in mind we do this as it is very hard to give drops to an insane hissing, spitting, clawing, biting bundle of "no I don't want that in my ear!" I would only use this as a last resort because it does tend to heighten my one cats anxiety although the other one seems to relax once she's bundled.

Nice points Peng1zrule.