I just don't get it.

[Crystal]

Alright, I don't know what I've ever done to Toby, but he has major issues with me. He stays outside on his chain when the weather is nice, and I bring him in before dark. Well last night I went out to get him and unhooked his chain. I'm trying to teach him once he is unhooked to go on in the house. He sleeps inside the laundry room, which is right inside the door where I unhook his chain. He can actually get in the house if I open the door while he is still chained up. Well anyhow, last night he backed of the porch and barked at me. I couldn't get him to come to me. Finally when I got him to stay at the door while I grabbed his collar. He was bouncing all over the place and pee was dripping all over teh porch. Everytime he sees me no this happens. For the past 3 or 4 days. If I go near him he starts jumping, barking, and peeing. Why????

It doesn't happen with anyone else. I am his main care provider. Nobody else feeds, waters, baths, and brushes him. Yet, he rolls over and lets my husband pet his belly. He plays and licks at my daughter. But me, he barks, jumps, pees, and even nips at me.

This morning when I went to take him outside he would hide in the corner and try to bite me. Why doesn't he like me???

I'm honestly confused, I've never been mean to him. I don't yell, I have changed my tone to say no, but never to loudly. I try to play with him and pet him but he seems to hate me.

I'm honestly at my wits end here. I was very uspset lastnight. I had determined he must have mental problems or have been poisoned or something. It's sad, but this is really causing me problems. I'm having a hard time loving this dog. I mean I love him, but it is hard to have that bond and relationship when he is a total nut. I know I can't give up, but I'm losing my mind here. HELP ME!!!!

[pyrless]

oh, honey. i know this is hard.
first things first. the urination is likely submissive urination, and the barking and jumping is likely play behavior (it's hard to tell without seeing him). the nipping is completely normal for his age.
you may be inadvertently sending him "threatening" (to a dog) body language when you call him in. are you leaning towards him, looking him in the eye and standing in the doorway? to him that is confrontational. the best way to get him to come to you is walk away from him, clapping, calling his name. food usually helps too. also, if you have "added" something to your shape, ie a hat, umbrella, bag, whatever, some dogs are sensitive to that.
i know what you are going through. taz (the gorgeous grey dog in the photo) was an absolutely awful, incorrigible, stubborn, bull headed little tyrant. Plus, my husband had picked him out. He did everything you just described from Toby, except the peeing, and seemed to adore my husband, who was never home, while I did all the work,feeding, grooming, training, vet visits, you name it. I felt the same way you did, I love this puppy but can't bond with him. (he was our only dog at the time).
Things started to change around the time he was 1.5. Suddenly I had a protective, loyal, calm, watchful eye on me. He sees me as alpha. He knows when I have attacks of depression and stays with me accordingly, notifying my husband by barking and pawing at him. I don't know what happened, except for I was patient and consistent.
If Toby is an alpha wanna-be, this will take time. Trust me, it IS worth it! :D (i know you have heard that from me before but it is the truth!)
I got a lot of great information, some of which you see here! ;-) in Patricia McConnell's book "The Other End of the Leash". It is the only book on dog training and behaviour that ever made sense to me.
Good luck! I hope we on Dogo can help you, or at least help you to feel better.

[Crystal]

Well, now I can add. The barking and jumping is not the playing stuff he was does with others. He crouches down and it seems like a defending himself kinda thing. I don't stay at the door and try to get him to come in, I walk away calling his name. I get his dinner and try to get him to come in and eat it. I even sit it down in the room and leave completely. He will come to the door and put his paws in, but not come in the house. As soon as he sees me he runs back out. I don't know that he is an alpha-wanna be. He doesn't seem it. McKenzie was alpha-wanna be and Toby doesn't seem to be like that. Who knows what he is thinking? I feel I am doing everything I can and I feel I am doing everything right, but he seems to hate me. My husband picked him out. It's all his fault. I should have known, because I picked out McKenzie and she was my baby. She loved everyone though.

I try not to compare Toby to McKenzie, because I know all dogs are different. But I guess after having a dog that was so easy to train and always loving and friendly a dog like Toby is a tad disappointing. I feel horrible that I feel that way but I can't help it. It is disappointing to expect this grand relationship and be given the reactions I get from Toby. My heart is broken and now I must stop typing as I am in tears.

Thanks for the reply, you have reassured me that I am doing things correctly. I guess it just takes time. I'm not the most patient person, but I'll work on it.

[Seijun]

This does not really sound like an "alpha dog" problem (although there is always the slight possibility that it is), it sounds more like a "scared dog" problem.

-Has Toby always done this to you? If not, is there anything you have done recently that could possibly have caused him to associate you with fear? (Maybe you stepped on his paw by accident, or maybe made some loud noise that scared him)
-What is his body language like when he is acting like this--is his tail tucked in or held high? Are his ears laid back or pointing forward?
-How does he react when you do other things to him, like try to brush him, pet him, etc?
-Are his reactions worse if you are trying to touch around his neck and collar?
-What happens if someone else tries to bring him indoors or feed him?
-Was Toby ever abused or mistreated by anyone? Could it be that you remind him of someone bad in his past (the way you look, walk, etc), or maybe you did something that somehow reminded him of something bad in his past?

~Seij

[Crystal]

Wow, tons of questions. Ok here goes.

Yes, Toby has been like this with me 90% of the time.
No, nothing bad has ever happened with me and him.
Tail between his legs and ears flat against his head.
His hair stands up on his back when he sees me.
He doesn't enjoy brushing, bathing, nail cutting, or even my petting him.
I can't touch him at all. His paws are the worst, his neck doesn't seem to bother him worse than anything else.
My daughter has tried to get him to come inside and feed him. He just looks at her and seems confused.
I got him when he was about 7 weeks old. The only thing I can think of that could have happened is that the people that had him had a 3 year old and he was the puppy she liked best. I think she carried him around everywhere. I shouldn't remind him of a 3 year old.

Ok I think I answered all your questions. Maybe he is deaf or something. I know far fetched, but I've heard that can make them act odd. If they can't hear it is hard to udnerstand what you want from them. Then only thing I can get him to do is sit and that takes and firm "Toby, sit" with a visual hand command. HMM, maybe that is why he doesn't come when called. Will have to go see if I can get his attention with noise now.

[Seijun]

Yes, this is definately a fear issue. Have you noticed whether or not he acts like this around all women? If he is afraid of any other people that you know of? Try to find out what you have in common with any other people who Toby fears. Often-times dogs will be afraid of just women, or just men, or even just people from a certain age group. Who a dog is afraid of can even depend on little things like voice, height, or even clothing. Other times, a dog may pick out ONE person to be extremely afraid of, and for no apparent reason that we humans can see. This is the case with my Shilo. She has always been afraid of men, but she is downright TERRIFIED of my dad, and no one is our family can figure out exactly why. When she sees him she will run away, bark, growl, and raise her hackles. I would suggest you look up some tips on the net about socializing dogs who are afraid of people.

~Seij

[Crystal]

but he is only afraid of me :cry:

This is hilarious. I just went outside a few minutes ago to check his water bowl and he let me pet him. He was a little uneasy about it, but he let me pet him and he even put his paws in my hand and licked me. I honestly think he may be trying to drive me crazy. I think I'll scream now.

[Crystal]

I go out there often and I have even tried bringing him in here with me. He gets very scared when I bring him in the living room. He runs and hides behind the couch. If I keep him on the leash so he has to stay close to me he pulls until he almost chokes himself and usually pees everywhere. I run all over the yard with him and try to play and sometimes he does, but usually he ignores me or hides. Who knows what he is thinking? I've read they go through a fear period maybe this is his.

[pyrless]

They do go through a fear period. He's a Lab/Husky, right? The one thing I know about both those breeds is that they are "people" dogs.
Don't give up on him, hon. You will find a way.
Also, you might want to talk to your husband about helping you train him?

[Crystal]

Oh come on do you believe my husband will do such. My husband is harldy ever even here. He works practically endless hours. He'd probably have to stop sleeping to help train the dog. Seriously he helps when he can, but he is a busy busy man. Poor guy, works his butt off for us. I love him.

I won't give up on Toby, but it is so hard. His actions are so discouraging. He is more hard headed and stubborn than any man I've ever meet. Such a male. I'll figure it out.

[Seijun]

[quote name='Crystal']but he is only afraid of me :cry:



Like I said, sometimes a dog will "decide" to fear somebody for no reason, at least not one that we can see (he probably does have a reason, but it might be a reason impossible for you or anyone else to pick out right now.

~Seij

[Guest Anonymous]

Start going outside as often as you can and sit down somewhere he can reach you. You do this everyday a few times a day, talking to him while you sit there, he will get used to you.

[AllAmericanPUP]

something could have happened to him with his previous family..

my girl keesha was dumped in a ditch with her littermates at 8 weeks of age, but it's apparent that whoever had her before abused her and the rest of em, keesha will run from my oldest brother and my dad, but she is great with the rest of the family.

some dogs really just never get over their past and sometimes they just dont bond with certain people

[courtnek]

there seems to be numerous issues here. he could have a hearing, or even a visual issue. my hound is going blind and doesnt hear all that great, and is afraid of my son. because he is loud and moves too quickly for her. she has gotten better once i got it thru his head what he needs to do, but from what you're saying, you're trying too hard. you're stressing and he can feel that. they sense things we have no clue about, trust me. when my son decided to stop yelling around Lore, and stop trying to make her like him, she suddenly started to. if you need to bring him in, dont call and stress and get upset. put a small leash on him, bring him in with soft tones and "baby talk", then let him go about to do his thing. the less hard you try to make him like you, the sooner he will.

:fadein:

[kendalyn]

If he's afraid of you, it's probably a good idea to stop "forcing" yourself (in his eyes) on him. Try and make it HIS choice to be near you.

I think you have inadvertantly made his fear worse by some of the things you've done to try and bond with him. Making him stay close by putting him on a leash was probably a bit traumatic for him. Can you imagine being leashed to something you're terrified of?

When you need to do something that requires getting very close to Toby (like taking his tie out off) do it very unobtrusively. Maybe sit down on the ground with a treat and call him softly. Give him the treat while you're removing the clip after HE approaches you.

I would also try and have him inside a little more often. Does he have a crate? If he's running behind the couch to hide, I think he would enjoy the privacy of a hard sided crate or a wire one with a heavy blanket over 3 sides. Maybe start by putting it in the laundry room where he already feels safe and move it into the living room so he knows it's there for him.

Make EVERY interaction with him positive for awhile. Obviously if he's chewing on something expensive you'll need to make him stop but instead of yelling "NO" just remove him from the area and give him something else to play with. Harsh punishment is going to destroy him right now. Small moves... you'll get there :-)

[Seijun]

Like Kendalyn said, never force him to do anything he is too afraid to do unless it is absolutely necessary! Let him come to you, don't try to force him, that will only make things worse.

AllAmericanPup brought up a subject I felt I wanted to comment on--dogs being afraid of men. It seems a lot of dogs are more afraid of men than women, and it doesn't necessarily mean they were abused. Men tend to look and "feel" much more imposing than women (they are taller, and have deeper voices), so a dog is more likely to fear them. Also remember that a dog only socialized to men will likely fear women, and a dog that is socialized only to women will likely fear men. In one case, a dog I read of was afraid of everybody except teens because teenagers were the only people it ever had contact with.

~Seij

[Guest Anonymous]

Seijun napisał(a):

AllAmericanPup brought up a subject I felt I wanted to comment on--dogs being afraid of men. It seems a lot of dogs are more afraid of men than women, and it doesn't necessarily mean they were abused. Men tend to look and "feel" much more imposing than women (they are taller, and have deeper voices), so a dog is more likely to fear them. Also remember that a dog only socialized to men will likely fear women, and a dog that is socialized only to women will likely fear men. In one case, a dog I read of was afraid of everybody except teens because teenagers were the only people it ever had contact with.

Excellent point. Exactly what I was saying. Being afraid of a certain type of individuals does not mean that a dog was necessarily abused by that type of person. More often than not, it means that they had limited/no exposure to said certain type during their crucial early socialization phases.

Example: Lots of dogs are scared of people with canes or in wheelchairs. Doesnt mean that their are roving bands of elderly or handicapped dog beating individuals. :lol:

Regarding the OPs issues; I understand hubby is busy, what are the chances of you working with a trainer ? or even just going to the library and checking out some books on pooch behavior ? I am sure we could provide a helpful well known list.

I also strongly feel that the first thing you need to do is establish a relationship with this dog by A) being with him more often and B) making all good things come from you. I would get him a crate or x-pen to contain him in the house. An X-pen might be a little less stressful if he isnt crate trained. Set him up in a quiet comfy corner. Praise for quiet and welcoming behavior, walk by and throw some treats in (I like hot dog bits) a couple times an hour. Outside time should be on a leash and with you. Try to initiate play with a toy or a ball, if their is no interest or inappropriate behavior - cease and desist like it never happened. Feeding time should be controlled and again come from you. Toby should sit for his dinner before you put the bowl down.

Basically ignore or avoid behaviors that are panicky/freaky/negative. Vigorously praise/treat behavior you like - being calm, being indoors, approaching you, etc. Even this simple type of training program and increased interaction is going to help you and your pooch bond. In the meantime, consider at least talking to a pro for some increased socialization and training.

Good Luck! :D

[kendalyn]

I wanted to say one other thing and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way. Right now your dog is really not very stable. I know you've got young children. If not treated properly, this dog is a fear bite waiting to happen.

This probably will not always be the case once he gets over some of his issues and starts feeling more comfortable, but you should be aware that extra special care needs to be taken with him.

It sounds to me like right now he is in constant "fight or flight" mode and that situation is potentially dangerous.

[DogPaddle]

Excellent suggestion on the plastic crate or wire crate with blanket Kendalyn. That might work nicely. And the more he is in the house where you do house work, watch tv etc, the more he gets to spend time with you without you paying direct attention to him. That should be less stressful for him. As for the running and hiding in the house that could be because he usually isn't allowed in, it would likely take a little time for him to adjust to that. He will be picking up on what your feeling so focus on not worrying about it and just being freindly/open to him approaching you.

[Crystal]

Kendalyn, yes I know this and my kids are not allowed near him with us. Even if he were the most perfectly well behaved dog in the world they would not be allowed around the dog without us. Big rule in our house. So don't worry about that one. If I see him acting goofy I make the kids leave him alone immediatley.

Now, we do have a crate. He is crate trained, and if I bring it in the living room he is right in it all the time. The crate goes everywhere he goes. If he is in the laundry room it is there to sleep in, but he has the laundry area to straetch his legs in. When he goes outside the crate goes out on the porch for him to rest in when he wants to. He loves his crate. He will lay right in it all day if I bring him in the living room with us. He runs and hides behind the couch if I sit in the floor though. Well, usually.


Here is the news from lastnight. I swear I wanna go to counseling after dealing with this dog. Your never gonna believe this.

Yesterday I went out to play with him and he was the most friendly thing in the world. We played and he was happy as could be. Then I went to bring him in for the night and give him dinner. We had chicken and someone dropped a piece so I took it in hopes that he would come in easily. I went out, unhooked his chain and he jumped right in the back door and right to the laundry room he went. I didn't even need the chicken, but I gave it to him as a treat and praised him like crazy. We played back in the laundry room for about 20 minutes and he just wagged his tail and was a totally different dog.

This morning I took him outside and gave him his breakfast. For some reason we do breakfast outside and dinner inside???Who knows why, it just works. I opened the laundry room door and he followed him right to the back door. He went right out let me put his chain on and then my son, who is scared of him usually, came back there. I let him give Toby a dog biscuit. Toby was great this morning too. We played, I petted him and he even takes the sit command from my 1 1/2 year old.

I'm totally blown away. This dog can drive me up a wall one day and then be a complete different on another day. Who knows what he is thinking? Maybe he will stay this way. If so, problem solved. For some reason I have figured out he is better approached from the front of the house than the side. I take him out the side, because the porch is big and covered. Well his chain is pretty long and it reaches around to the front of the house. If I go out the front door and call him he comes bounding around the corner and is all happy. If I go out the side he is afraid it is time to come in. He doesn't want to come in until dark. When it is dark he is a little better at coming in. So I think the problem may had been that he didn't want to come in. Might explain why he backed off the porch and worked his way closer to the front of the house. Just my guess??? Maybe that was it.

[ESSlover]

Glad to hear that last night went well! Maybe he was just havin his moments.. or was just trying to be an annoying, stubborn lil pup :roll: I swear, Carson knows what annoys us. In the morning, he'll chew on my hairbrush to get me up. My mom's shoes. Gets her up. Pushes my dad out of bed. Gets him up. :lol:

Hope he stays this way! :D

[pyrless]

Crystal, that is great news! Look, all of the suggestions and comments here are wonderful, intelligent and insightful, as always. But sometimes you just can't read into it too much. Puppies are nuts, and sometimes it takes quite some time to learn each other's rhythms and style of communication, and you know best about that because you live with him. Taz was absolutely impossible to deal with as a puppy. He refused to turn the corner on leash walks, for god's sake! :D Be gentle, be yourself, be positive.
I know how you feel about the husband situation. Mine works 60+ hours a week, I work 40. He's a steelworker, I'm a legal assistant. So despite the demands of my job, I can never "win" as far as who had the worse week, etc etc. I love him more than he knows and respect his work ethic, but when he is sitting on the couch with a beer and it is 6 p.m. and he goes "The dogs are probably hungry" and then just SITS there and LOOKS at me until i FEED them :o it makes me nuts...

[Crystal]

I don't let it drive me nuts when my husband comes home and gets lazy. I mean he works and I get to stay at home so I give in and do most of the work. He made dinner last night, well he cooked it. I did the prep work. I love my hubby so much I could never explain it. I even offered to get a job during the summer, while my mother in-law is off work. She could babysit and I could work full-time all summer. I was gonna put back money for a big fat vacation for our anniversary. I was told no. I was only doing it so he could cut back, but he said he would rather work. Rightly so too, he makes way more than I ever could. Which is odd, I finished school, he quit to take a full-time job when I got pregnant.

Anyway, back to dogs. Toby is a lunatic. I honestly think he jumps personalities to drive me up the wall. Oh well, I love him. Oh and he hates a leash, can't get one near him. We are working on it. Very slow progress.