Puppy help

[Guest Anonymous]

Hello,
I am new here and really like reading alot of the posts.
I have a 16 week old Bichon Frise. He is wonderful except. When we use a crate with him he poops and pees. Well I did decide to wear a towel around myself for about an hour before I put him in and to my amazement he didn't go in the crate. We decided not to use the crate at night because he would lay in his poop and pee and scream alnight long, so I made a dog pillow for him and leashed him (1 foot lead) so he could only be on the pillow at night and it is right next to my daughters bed. No poop no pee. He goes to bed at 9:30 pm and gets up at 6:30-7 am. We have had him since he was 9 weeks old and have been very consistantly taken him outside on a schedual. He will do excellent but at times he will have a day or two with mistakes all day. We do not scold unless we catch him and he is always rewarded for a good deed. But he will not ask to go outside or give any indication he has to go. We tried a bell, he just played with it. He will however in the morning yip until we wake up and take him out. Is this just puppy and he will grow out of it? (the not asking to go out because I thought by now he would ask)

And what about the crate? We do leave him in the crate when we leave to go to a place where we can not take him which isn't very often but he screams the whole time we are gone and digs at the crate door. He is almost horse by the time we come back and his tongue is large and his front nails will have blood marks in them. I am so scared for him but I can't take him every where and I can't leave him loose in the house. He total freaks out when he thinks he is going to be left. (We usually take him every where.) I'm affraid he will hurt himself with this behavior. I do sometimes leave him in the car leashed on the floor in the back (so he doesn't get hurt in case of an accident) I leave the blanket on the floor we wrapped him in when we came home with him for security and he never messes and is usually sleeping and I never hurd him bark but the weather is cooler now and is ok. But what do I do when it is cold out or when the summer comes and it is too hot to leave him in the car? This crate thing is a mess with him. I know next weekend he will be home alone for 4 hours I am really affraid for him. We can't take him with us what do I do for him? We have never left him for more than 1 1/2 hours.

I can say we spoil him alot.....but we really love him and he is like another person in our family. We have 7 kids and he is doing really well with them and them with him. But some people say he is training us....? I think we are strict with him in obeying rules but other wise I don't know. We don't allow chewing or any undesired behavior but this crate issues is a mess. An why will he poop and pee and lay in it? I hurd that that ment he was a bad dog....Is that true? The breeder I got him from seemed to have clean areas for the puppies but they were in cages with their litter mates with mesh for poop and pee to fall through. Was this bad?

I do however, love this breed! I don't think I have had a better puppy ever except a Border Collie mix I had once but he was about 4 months old when I got him and had a good nature. I would seriously love to get another Bichon but I don't know if my guy would allow that. He really loves our family and seems to like being the only animal. He gets really frightened when other dogs come around. Is that just a puppy thing too?

Any suggestions would be great.....
Thanks so much!

[leahluvsherpups]

How big is the crate? As a rule the crate should only be big enough for the dog to stand up and turn around. Also be sure to take your pup out to the same spot every couple of hours to go potty then when he goes, give tons of praise. 9 hours without going potty is a very long time for a puppy. When Cody was younger I would have to let her out at least every two to four hours during the night. I lost alot of sleep but that's the joys of raising puppies. Personally I won't do it again. Good luck.

[Horsefeathers!]

My opinion may be different from many others' opinions, but here it is for what it's worth...


I think there are dogs that have a hard time learning to cope with crating and I even think there are some dogs who just never really do. 16 weeks is still fairly young, so it's hard to say if yours might, but I have known some dogs that just never would crate. One was Rocco, the Dobe we adopted. He was everything we could ask for in a dog, well mannered, professionally trained, had been involved in lots of events, but he would not be crated. I also had a Cocker grooming client that I could not crate. He was the most mannerable, easy to groom dog otherwise, but I had to either tie him in one spot, or just give him the run of my grooming area and close the door. He would pace, drool and bang himself on the sides of the kennel if I tried caging him. He would sleep peacefully through the day (other than the actual grooming part) if I just tied him in one spot or let him loose with the door closed. It wasn't worth the stress to him or me to try to make him accept it.

I'm all for crating and it's very rare that I would give up trying, but if the dog is clawing until its nails are bleeding and housetraining is going relatively well EXCEPT for when crating, I might consider another means of confinement. I have leashed dogs to my bed, too, mostly new dogs or fosters when I didn't have enough kennels :oops: . Also, is there a way to confine the dog to the kitchen or a bathroom when you're gone? You could still work with the crating issue. Just put the pup in the crate long enough to eat and let him back out. Put some treats in there and lure him in to enjoy those with the gate open. Put his favorite toys in there and something soft to lay on. Make it a place he wants to be instead of just locking him up when he's to be alone. Don't be pushy about it. Just be upbeat and perky and let him think it's his choice. You're just trying to make him CHOOSE to go in there :wink: . Perhaps he'll eventually come to consider it his "den" as most crate trained dogs do. He may be viewing that crate as some sort of banishment at this point (who really knows what goes through a dog's mind, anyway?). He goes into crate, you leave, he's alone. Crate means abandonment. I dunno; just theorizing here. He really DOES need to eventually learn how to accept being kenneled in case he ever has to board anywhere, spend the night at the vet's, or anything like that. Perhaps it's just time to take a step back and start all over, but in the meantime until you get it worked out, find another way to confine him. Then work on making him want to go into his crate. Make it far more interesting than anything else he could be doing.

That's just my take. Good luck either way it goes. I like Bichons, too. 8)

[courtnek]

I agree with HF. Some dogs cant be crated. Free is a claustrophobiac. she destroyed two crates and soiled in both. With her, I put her in a large bathroom with a baby gate, nothing she could destroy, and papers on the other side of the room (Iwork full time) I came home at lunch tolet her out. She was housebroken by 4 months without the stress of the crate, and she knew if she absolutely had to go she could use the papers. I then took them outside with her and set them down in he "spot" and she learned in time. As they get older they can hold it longer as well. If she feels enclosed she will panic and destroy things to get "free" (like if there are groceries blocking the kitchen, or a garbage can blocking the door, things like that)

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks so much for writting. I did decide about a week ago to leave the door open to the crate 24/7 just to see what he thought of that. Today infact he went in by himself and sat down for about 1 minute but then he freaked because I went to the kitchen...He probably thought I was going to leave... :( ...I don't know I hope he starts to go in more and more by himself. I do like the water bottle idea. But I don't know if he will think it is a game. He loves water. He cries when we take showers to get in with us. He loves the hair dryer....Weird one huh? :roll: But easy to give a bath and dry up! I have been working with him with the "come" command and he is doing really well. I only worked with him one night about 10 minutes and he is coming almost everytime and today it was everytime. I still don't know why he won't ask to go out at least every now and then I feel he understands because when we ask him if he wants out he get excited to go....Will he if he hasn't by now? Also I think when we are gone for that 4 hours I will go with the larger place idea and put him in the laundry room he can't hurt any thing in there. I think I will try that with him for a short time tomorrow to see what happens. He usually likes the laundry room because he will go in there and lay down while I do laundry and sometimes go to sleep. We'll see though. I will keep you all posted.
Thanks again!! Baginja

[Horsefeathers!]

pwrpufgirlz napisał(a):

Get a water bottle (one with a stream, rather than a mist)...

The second he whines look at him, firmly say NO! and squirt him right in the eyes with the water bottle. Repeat as necessary.

I guess you could say I'm a huge advocate of the water bottle for both cats and dogs.

I'd be kind of concerned about using a water bottle for a dog that already seems stressed. You might be able to make the dog be quiet while you're around to watch him by squirting him, but I don't see how it would keep the dog from peeing and pooping in his crate and clawing until its nails bleed when no one's right there. It seems to me like it might have the potential to make things worse. I'd be afraid that a dog which is that upset already (not only the crying, but the peeing and pooping and clawing until its nails bleed) would become even more neurotic if you punish it for being afraid.

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I'm certainly no expert. I don't mind using a water bottle on any of mine if they need a little attention getter ("hey, you, I said leave that alone!"), but I'd just hate to use it on a dog who is reacting to fear or stress already.

That's just me, though. I could just be a hippy weirdo. It could just come from having to deal with so many "special needs" dogs that don't respond well to any kind of negative training and I usually end up having to outsmart them. :oops:

[Horsefeathers!]

We posted at the same time, Baginja. :oops:

Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck! :)

Edited to add:

Baginja napisał(a):

I still don't know why he won't ask to go out at least every now and then I feel he understands because when we ask him if he wants out he get excited to go....Will he if he hasn't by now?

We adopted three and four YEAR old Standard Poodles which had never been inside a house a day in their lives before going into rescue. If THEY could be housetrained, I believe your baby probably can. It sounds like he's making progress already.

[Lokipups]

I'd be kind of concerned about using a water bottle for a dog that already seems stressed.

Actually, that's pretty much dead on. NEVER punish a dog while it's in the crate, that'll undo everything you're trying to teach the pup, which is the crate is a good place to be.
Many times the problem is that most people don't take the time to introduce the crate properly. It should be 2 minutes in the crate, a dozen times the first day or so, always praising and treating. Use a command every single time you put the pup in the crate (I use the term "kennel up"). Set the dog up to suceed, not to fail, and that means letting the pup out of the crate BEFORE it has a meltdown :wink: . Once the pup has gotten the hang of going into the crate, then shut the door, for longer and longer periods of time. And NEVER let the pup out when it starts to bark, the dog will just be training you instead of the other way around :wink: .
And filled Kongs or shin bones to occupy the pup will also work wonders as well.

[Horsefeathers!]

Lokipups napisał(a):

Use a command every single time you put the pup in the crate (I use the term "kennel up").

That's what we use! We can stand up anywhere and say "kennel up!" and these dogs will line up military style in front of their respective crates. 8)

[Guest Anonymous]

Great thoughts. Yeah he is really stressed. He totally looses it in a matter of seconds. Do any of you think he had a bad experiance before we got him? The breeder seemed great and loving so I don't think if he did it would have been because of him doing something on purpose, but he did say the pup had been bought once all ready but he never really said if he had gone to live with the person or not. Because I know they hold them if you pay first too. I just didn't ask. I can't believe anyone would want to return such a great pup though. He is really wonderful and smart. Is what is going on with him maybe separation anxiety? If so what should I do to help him?
Thanks! Baginja

[Horsefeathers!]

I'm no expert, but one thing I would suggest is this... when pup is freaking out, or having an "episode," you don't want to respond by picking him up and coddling him. Some people think they are being soothing and reassuring (and some people think it's cute), but IMO, it creates a monster. You'll just need to remain calm and matter of fact. Dogs are great at conditioning their people to give them what they want (attention). When you leave for work, don't made a scene with long, dramatic goodbyes. Same when you get home. You don't have to totally diss him, but just be calm and matter of fact.

It's hard to say why your pup is the way he is. It could be breeding, a traumatic past experience, both, neither, there's just no telling.

[imported_Kat]

Definitely don't use adverse negative behaviour towards a stressed dog in a crate. A crate should be perceived as a nice safe haven where the dog should enjoy being. Set the dog in the crate and sit a little distance away so that the dog can see you. Ignore any barking or yapping totally and when the dog is silent and content go over to the cage and gently praise using your voice and a little titbit. Repeat this a few times and build up the time between when you leave and when you go back. Its important not to over-do the praise as this can get the dog hyped up too much leaving a big disappointment that will manifest itself in a stressed dog when you leave. Eventually you should be able to leave the room and have a happy content dog. Use a command everytime you put him in and this way you can prepare the dog for what is about to happen and this will then not be such a shock when he is left in his crate. It will also give him a higher sense of confidence and control by using a repetitive command.

Good luck :wink:

[Guest Anonymous]

I like that one....Thanks I really would like it to happen with him. I will give it a whirl and see the results. Hopefully he will get better. Because he really is a good boy.

[pyrless]

i agree that some dogs can't be crated too, but for a sixteen week old pup, maybe he is just resistant to it for now. I have heard that small dogs can be difficult to housetrain exactly because they DON'T give good signals when they have to go out.
Anyway, it is hard to ignore a crying dog but the main thing you have to teach a puppy is that you will come back, and that nothing bad will happen to them while you are gone. The best thing is to start very small, literally minutes at a time, and leave the dog with something extragood like a Kong or a real bone.
I hope this helps, welcome to the board by the way!

[Guest Anonymous]

Well,
I decided to ditch the crate all together. He just is a mess with kind of confinment. Soooo we leashed him to our basement door off the kitchen with his pillow. No screaming, no mess, no blood in his nails but he was howling when we returned. I can handle howling! I think this might be the answer. We will see today is the big outing. We finally got him to ring his bell to go out. He only does it when we go to the door with him but I think it is a start.
Thanks guys! Baginja

[mouseatthebusstop]

I am not too happy about the puppy tied near a pillow
have you a room were the lease damage can be done?

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, the outing did good he wasn't even howling this time. The pillow is what he sleeps on and if it makes him happy he'll get it. I would reather have him happy then a complete mess.
Thanks for the help guys.