Scared for my dogs life....

[Taurus and Jada]

This is the latest in dog attacks in my hometown, London, Ont. There was a talk show on this morning regarding the issue, which I called into to get my say. I was the only pit owner who called in ( I think) so the host spoke with me for about 5 mins... basically wondering why anyone would want to own a dog like this. I was also surprised because when they were talking about breeds and breed bans, they also mentioned Presa's and Cane Corso's.....


Family blasts dog controls

A London man had his right arm torn up in an attack by two pit bulls.
PATRICK MALONEY, Free Press Reporter 2004-08-17 02:39:31







It was bad enough that Chris Durand's right arm was torn up in an attack by two pit bulls. But what's even more disturbing and shocking to his wife, Darlene Durand, is that the two dogs -- one of which locked its jaw on Chris's right triceps for about 20 seconds -- weren't immediately removed from their north London neighbourhood.

"If another human being had attacked my husband, he'd be in jail right now, away from the community," she said yesterday of the Sunday attack that left her husband in hospital. "But these dogs are still in my neighbourhood."

What started as a leisurely family walk to Constitution Park took a scary twist when a woman left her Fanshawe Park Road apartment with the two pit bulls. The dogs ran toward the Durands, who were with their seven-year-old son, Nathan, and walking their Shih Tzu, Oreo.

To protect Oreo from the pit bulls, Chris Durand held him up over his head, his wife recalled. One of the pit bulls latched onto Durand's right triceps -- which bore three deep puncture marks yesterday -- and held on until a stranger ran up and helped.

"He was hanging off my husband's arm," Darlene Durand said. "We're not talking a little bite. We're talking you're in the hospital . . . and you don't know how this is going to end up. This is our life and these are just dogs."

Police ordered the dogs quarantined inside their owner's ground-floor apartment. But the Middlesex-London Health Unit was set last night to take both dogs for a 10-day observation period at the London Animal Care Centre, which handles animal care and bylaw enforcement.

The fact that wasn't done right away upset Darlene Durand.

"(I) can see the dogs' apartment from my home," she said, still shaken from the attack. "How many attacks does this have to take? Did it have to be my son for people to sit up and take notice?

"It should be one attack and (the dog is) destroyed. There should be no arguments."

No charges will be laid, London police said, because the pit bulls were on leashes -- but one broke when the dogs charged toward Oreo.

After the animal centre's 10-day quarantine, the dogs will be returned home, said George Blair of the health unit -- but officials plan to investigate whether further punishment is needed.

"There may be a muzzling order," said executive director Brett Harlton. "These types of things do happen, but this sounds like a fairly serious incident that warrants a full investigation."

Darlene Durand heaped praise on the man who came to her husband's aid, though she didn't want to make his name public.

The man -- "Our angel," she said -- pulled the pit bulls off Chris and took them back into their owner's apartment.

"I don't know many people who would jump into a dog attack like that," she said, adding she plans to nominate the man for a citation.

To Chris Durand, the pit bulls aren't to blame, but he said he fears their aggressive behaviour will only break loose more and more often in his north-end neighbourhood.

His wife, who is considering a civil suit against the owner, is more blunt: The dogs should be destroyed and city council should ban aggressive breeds.

"I'm not an anti-dog person. I am an anti-vicious dog person."





Copyright

[Carolk9s]

But did the woman SAY anti PIT BULL? Or just anti vicious dogs. I can understand her fear, if ANY dog attacked me like the one dog attacked her husband, I'd probably have to consider if I wanted the dog put down as well. I do not believe in giving biters second chances as a rule. If the dog had NOT bitten the man in it's attempt to get at the little dog, that is one thing, but the dog apparently did bite the man rather severely.
If any one of my dogs did this, I'd kill them myself, I would not need a court order.

[Cairn6]

I can't fault anything the woman says after going through something so traumatic as watching her husbands torn up. She's going to be emotional she is human.

[drjeffrock]

Carolk9s napisał(a):

If any one of my dogs did this, I'd kill them myself, I would not need a court order.

Agreed.

[Cairn6]

Disregard I quoted myself somehow. Wierd

[imported_Kat]

Well to me the owner was at fault. The dog should have been on a leash and as a result suffered through ignorance. With so much bad publicity about pitbull terriers she should be helping her chosen breed responsibly and that means putting a lead on it and keeping it under control. The same could have happened with any other breed of course but not many other breeds have as bad publicity as pitties and it is up to the pit owners to help the breeds reputation.

[Carolk9s]

"Dog Lover napisał(a):

But if this Pit Bull wanted to really attack the guy and do some serious damage it would have.

But the dog DID attack the man and DID damage his arm. How severe does the damage need to be? Sure, could have been far worse, it could have been the kid that got bit, but this should not have happened at all.
Please know Dog Lover, I realize you have already said the dog should be put down, something I totally agree with.
I agree also with Kat, the dogs owner bears a burden of guilt. Even though the dog WAS leashed according to the story, the leash broke, ok that could happen unexpectedly to anyone. I have to wonder, had this dog shown aggression to other dogs in public before? If so, the OWNER failed to take proper steps to KNOW that her dog was secure and controllable in public.
I too am sorry that a dog may pay with his/her life due to the owners negligence, there would have to be some pretty strict and enforcable limitations placed on this dog and owner otherwise. Even then, what kind of life would the dog have?
As usual, there are far too many aspects that we do not know about this situation.
Perhaps this charge and attack DID come totally out of the blue and caught the owner off guard. Perhaps the owner is horribly shaken at seeing a behaviour never seen before in this dog.
I notice however, the story mentions a total stranger helping get the dog off of the mans arm, NOT the owner. Whats up with that?
If I was in the shoes of the man who got bit, I would want the dog that bit me destroyed. BTW, this is based on what we know of the story, we all know there may be other factors we are not aware of. I would not want the breed banned, but I would want THAT dog destroyed.

[Taurus and Jada]

I agree 100% that the dog should be destroyed, however, I am terrified that this will start a chain of events that will inevitabily end in a breed ban in my city :( ... If these dogs showed signs of dog agrression before then this lady should have walked them seperatly. Mine are dog aggressive and I can not control them together , so I walk them seperatly. That is the only responsible thing to do.
The only think I can see in this situation was that the man was holding the dog over his head, and the dog was trying to get at the dog and bit the man in the process. If a passer-by could take the dog off of the man and take him back to his apartment, how vicious could it have been to people?

[coastie_wife]

If a passer-by could take the dog off of the man and take him back to his apartment, how vicious could it have been to people?

The dog we had to have put down last year was not vicious to my husband. He was not vicious to my son. He was only vicious to me, and ONLY when I had my period. And yes, he was fixed. At any time when he decided to snarl and nip at me my husband could come in the room and he would be a 'fluffy bunny dog'....I really thought I was going nuts because my husband said it had to be me....not the dog.

Then I did more research regarding the family we adopted the dog from, and it turns out that THEY were getting rid of him for the same frigging reason. They told us he wouldn't respect her....said nothing about biting, snarling and nipping her during her period until I brought it up :evil:

An aggressive dog isn't necessarily aggressive to everyone. I have scars that prove that.

[Canis erectus]

I'm not 100% behind the idea of the dog being destroyed, there is alot about the story we don't know. For starters, the victim's wife is uniformed and/or ignorant as there is a reason the dogs isn't immediatly euthanized. Both of the Pits are in quarantine as that is the standard procedure for most states in a dog-bite-man incedent, the purpose being to rule out the possibility of rabies symptoms showing. Sure the dog could be destroyed and a rabies test done on the brain tissues, but that is a far expensive procedure than a simple quarantine.

It might entirely be the best thing to euthanize this dog if it truly is a threat to people, but we don't know that's the case. It seems to me that the scenario was an accident, a dog aggresive animal's leash broke and the victim essentially had gotten himself in the middle of a dog fight. Haven't we all been taught not to be in the middle of dog fights? Granted the gentleman hadn't been thinking about that when he took his dog off the ground, but you know what they say about hindsight huh? The point being that I know of dozens of dog aggresive dogs and this scene could have happened to any number of people I've met, just an accident. But again, we don't know the whole deal, and that might not be the case.

On a related note, my finace was attacked (no, mauled) by a dog when she was a little girl. She was unattended in a parking lot when she decided to talk to the nice Chesapeak Bay Retriever in the back of a pick up. Well, Chessies are territorial, and this was Southern Maryland where dogs are expected to be territorial, she encroached on 'his' truck, and payed the price for it. She still has quite large scars on her arm to this day. At any rate my fiance's family pleaded with the dog's owner not to euthanize the animal, and tried to convince the guy for weeks that the dog was only doing what he was expected to do. Of course the dog ended up being destroyed anyway, but at least my fiance's parents had the sense to realize that it was their own fault that that had happened, and that as mankind, we shouldn't condemn an animal that only did what we designed it to do.

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='Canis erectus'] It seems to me that the scenario was an accident, a dog aggresive animal's leash broke and the victim essentially had gotten himself in the middle of a dog fight. Haven't we all been taught not to be in the middle of dog fights? Granted the gentleman hadn't been thinking about that when he took his dog off the ground, but you know what they say about hindsight huh?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the story, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I have to strongly disagree. How was it a dog fight at all? What should the alternative have been... to stand there and watch his dog be killed by another dog? To me, any dog that will go through a human to get to another dog IS human aggressive. I just can't find a way to validate blaming the victim for his injuries.

I believe the dog should be destroyed (based on what I have read).

On a related note, my finace was attacked (no, mauled) by a dog when she was a little girl. She was unattended in a parking lot when she decided to talk to the nice Chesapeak Bay Retriever in the back of a pick up. Well, Chessies are territorial, and this was Southern Maryland where dogs are expected to be territorial, she encroached on 'his' truck, and payed the price for it. She still has quite large scars on her arm to this day. At any rate my fiance's family pleaded with the dog's owner not to euthanize the animal, and tried to convince the guy for weeks that the dog was only doing what he was expected to do. Of course the dog ended up being destroyed anyway, but at least my fiance's parents had the sense to realize that it was their own fault that that had happened, and that as mankind we shouldn't condemn an animal that only did what we designed it to do.

The back of a pickup truck in a public parking lot is not ANY dog's "territory," or shouldn't be. Also, I didn't realize that Chesapeake Bay Retrievers were designed to be aggressive. To excuse that away as simply being territorial is like comparing apples to oranges. It's a hard pill for me to swallow that the dog was "expected to" protect his truck from the bed of it in a public lot. I'm honestly taken aback that the "quite large scars on her arm to this day" are blamed on a young child. I see a joint responsibility... parents who weren't watching and a dog owner who left an aggressive dog unattended on the back of a truck in a public lot. If it was "expected to be territorial" and left unattended, then that seems an admission of the dog's aggression... since the dog was "expected to" protect it and all. That dog MAULED (by your description) a child. I don't care WHY he did it, or what you call it. The owners did the right thing by putting it down. I can't help wondering what on earth the parents of that girl were thinking by begging for the dog's life. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the story.

I'm with Carol... in short, I have no use for biting dogs and I'm inclined to care less and less each day the excuses given for WHY they bite.

[rotten_two]

thank you k! finally someone who understands! i know i will likely catch he*l for my opinion but i have to say it. even without all the details or being there to witness it myself i can (from the story mind you) make a couple conclusions about blame!

1) the pit owner is the exact kind of person that needs to have a fish as a pet! who doesn't routinely check leashes for damage etc? i would think (and maybe it is just me) that if you have a breed that is "touchy" in society that you are EXTRA careful. i am hypersensitive when my dogs are with me. i watch them like a hawk. i am also constantly on the lookout for things/situations that might get them riled up. i watch other dogs and their body language and i try not to assume that all dogs are friendly!

2) the pit owner -- i would like to shake her to see if anything rattles? i am sure there is a screw loose somewhere -- there has to be. it is quite evident that she is incapable of handling both dogs on a walk. take one at a time. and please -- you know if your dogs get crazy when they see other dogs! if you see another dog -- change direction, get ahold of yourself and your animals. warn people. ask them nicely to stop and wait until you can get out of sight! act like you have some sense!

3) shih tzu owners- how many different ways can it be said? NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER lift an object (that a dog desires) into your arms or above your head! do you think dogs can't jump? when you lift something they desire (small dogs, toys, children, food) it just boosts that prey drive and they want it more. i am not saying he did this to himself -- of course he didn't bite himself in the arm. i am saying there are much better ways to handle it and he could have maybe avoided a bite! we so need more education on how to deal with "aggressive" dogs. owners of the offending pups for sure need to be educated but so does joe schmoe dog walker. you have to be prepared because in this situation there is really no time to think. it never hurts to be prepared -- even if your dog is not the problem. you could carry a stick, some direct stop, some food treats to throw at the attacking dogs face, rocks in your pocket. this stuff could buy you valuable seconds. i bet you if you hit a dog in the face with food treats it will stop and redirect it's attention at least long enuff to scarf up the food. anything to break that intense concentration and hard eye! find a bush and get in it -- then the attacking dog has to think. education people!

4) the pits -- i don't think they need to be put down. i think the owner gets the punishment. take her privilege of owning dogs away -- forever. fine her heavily for not being able to handle her dog and let her pay the medical bills. i am really all for having the owner take responsibility for their dogs. don't kill the dog because the owner is stupid! place them in a home where they can be properly cared for -- they deserve that much! i do believe they need training or reconditioning.

5) the good samaritan -- obviously knew enuff to get the pits off and back into the apartment so kudos to him. there are not a lot of people out there who could react when they saw something like this happening.

also the mother (shih tzu owner) and the child came out physically unscathed -- thank goodness. i would bet that the kid will either choose not to have dogs in the future or stick with the small dogs! i feel for them as this is a horrible thing to experience and i hope they can get thru it. i think they also need to educate themselves.

sometimes i don't know why i bother. i can talk til i am blue in the face and these poor dogs will still likely die. there will always be an ignorant human in the picture. today somewhere in the world this will happen again. i am continually disappointed in the human race. we have the more advanced brain -- why not use it?!

[Guest Mutts4Me]

rotten_two napisał(a):

3) shih tzu owners- how many different ways can it be said? NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER lift an object (that a dog desires) into your arms or above your head! do you think dogs can't jump? when you lift something they desire (small dogs, toys, children, food) it just boosts that prey drive and they want it more.

I agree with most that you say, but I'm highly disturbed by this comment. To repeat a question that's already been asked, what was he supposed to do, stand by and watch his dog being killed? He probably cares as much about his dog as you care about yours, and he was taking action. It may not have been the most intelligent thing to do, but it's all he could do. Of course, you're talking to someone who's stood between her dog and another in several occasions, jumped into a dogfight twice, and ran after the road after her dog who was chasing a Rottweiler in a pickup bed, fully prepared to jump in a fight if it came to that (luckily, the Rott was an old friend). The minute my dog is in danger (either immediate injury or future euthanazia), I lose sight of myself. It's not a thought process, it's action.

Now, if my dog was in the wrong (as she sometimes is) and I jumped in a fight and was injured, I would not try to take legal action, nor would I want any of the dogs punished, because it was my choice (kind of) to jump in a dogfight. However, if an aggressive dog attacked my dog while she was properly contained on a leash or in my yard, and I was subsequently injured while (albiet stupidly) trying to break up a fight, I would want the owners to at least take (legal) responsibility for not properly containing dangerous animals. Maybe that's hypocritical, I don't know?

In this case, I think the owner is at fault. The dog did injure the man in an effort to get its "prey," not in a human aggressive attack. The moment prey drive kicks in, someone holding the prey up ceases to be a human and is an obstacle. Should the dog be destroyed? I don't think so, but I do think they need better homes.

[Seijun]

IMO, the dogs themselves were not at fault. Some dogs are so aggressive towards other dogs that they will do anything to get to that other dog, even if it means attacking a human. OR, the dog could have been so worked up that it just went after whatever was in its way without even contemplating that it was a human. My dog has tried to chew through BARBED WIRE to get at other dogs! The owner of the pits should not have had had them out together, and should have had them on a better leash. The owner of the small dog is not to blame, I would have done the same as him to protect my dog if it was that small.

~Seij

[Horsefeathers!]

This is a recent change of heart for me, but I still firmly believe that any dog who injures a human for ANY reason, whether it's an effort to get another dog or not, is showing human aggression. There is something kind of similar on another board where someone I've known a few years was holding her Poodle in her arms. A Rottie on a leash and under the handler's control (to this point) suddenly seized the Poodle from the owner's arms and killed it... just that quickly. There was no time to react and the dogs had apparently gotten along fine just a few minutes before when running loose, so holding the dog in her arms wasn't an effort to protect him. She was just holding him. This dog is still up for adoption and was just recently placed on PetFinder until the Poodle owner saw it and confronted them. The rescue group firmly believes there is no reason to "label" this dog as even dog aggressive and the ad on PetFinder just told what a wonderful dog he is... no mention of even having dog aggression.

I'm kind of wandering off the original topic. I could almost believe it was an accident with the Pit Bull if it weren't for the injuries described. I've seen that "oh sh*t!" look dogs get when they realized they grabbed the wrong thing in an effort to get to something else. It's happened to me when one of mine grabbed my hand in an effort to get a toy that I was holding over his head and squeaking (duh, me). It WAS an accident because as soon as he realized it was a hand and not the toy, he IMMEDIATELY let go. I'm not hard hearted enough to believe accidents never happen. However, as soon as I read that someone else had to pull this dog off? Sorry, I still consider that human aggression. That dog had time to realize he had a human arm in his mouth and chose to continue. Strong prey drive and the urge to get another dog, toy, bit of food, or whatever, IMO, are no excuses for injuring someone. I'm wondering how this is going to do the breed any good when the next inevitable "accident" happens with this dog and it WILL. Won't that just be another nail in the coffin?

Maybe my views are a bit influenced by the h*ll we went through last year with an aggressive dog that, despite the amount of training and rehabilitation, meds, natural diets and behavioralist working, was just plain dangerous. I'm not as likely to give biting dogs a second chance as I was even a year ago when there are so many "good" dogs. If we had put her down in the beginning when she bit her first kid, or killed the first dog instead of validating it away and trying to simply control her, it would have saved us a lot of h*ll and heartache. I can honestly say it will never happen again.

[Taurus and Jada]

HF,
I have to agree with you on everything you just said. Taurus has bitten me once by mistake while trying to get at another dog. It was a total accident, and it didn't even break the skin.... just bruised and scraped. To me, this is excusable, because I put myself in a sitation between two dogs that i shouldn't have. As soon as he realized he bit my arm and not the other dog... he was immediatly submissive... he crouched down, and when I went back over to him, would not stop licking my face. He knew he bit me by accident, and i knew it too.
IF the injuries in this case were not embelished ( and I say that because how great of a story would it make to run in the newspaper if the man only had scratches) then yes, I agree that the dog should be put down. It should have let go as soon as it realized it was biting a human and not the dog. However, perhaps it did not "lock its jaws :x " as the story implied, perhaps it just kept trying to get at the dog, and ended up biting the man in the process a few different times...
I dont know, I wasn't there, and the story was obviously being told my the victims family, and I would be very surprised if they weren't exagerating the truth... its what most people do.
Never the less, it was absolutly the owners fault, and this dog will most likely pay with its life :cry:

[Horsefeathers!]

I'm also basing my opinion solely on what I read of the story. Of course, it may not be accurate, but we can only base opinions on what we do know. I just can't think that it wasn't a serious attack just because the guy wasn't more seriously injured. That scares me to think that we could base the seriousness of an attack on the severity of the wounds inflicted. Next time, it could indeed be much worse and imagine the legal ramifications (not to mention another feather in the cap of the BSL folks) when people find out this dog attacked before. It just seems a disservice to responsible Pit Bull owners who are facing BSL.

Like Sasha, IF it were an accident and IF the story is inaccurate and IF the dog merely grabbed the wrong thing, I would feel differently. What I'm reading (and all I have to go on) is that the dog bit a man to get his dog and didn't let go until someone intervened. I consider that dangerous behavior regardless of if the man were lucky enough to get off with a puncture wound or if the dog took his arm off.

and I believe the trip to hospital was to ensure that a police report was filed and so that a possible injuries claim can be made...we all know Americans are 'sue happy' right

I thought this happened in Canada? :-?

I respectfully disagree, K (just based on what I read... would love to know more). 8)

[Horsefeathers!]

I'm not trying to blame the dog. I agree that the owner was irresponsible. Leashes can break, yes, but if one has a dog with a strong prey drive, or that doesn't respond well to owner direction, you make sure you have one that doesn't.

Sadly, in the end, it's the dog that suffers. Seems that's always the case when owners are irresponsible and I agree 100% that this owner is irresponsible. :(

[Canis erectus]

I agree with most of whats been said so far. In my origional post I based what I said on my own conclusions after analyzing the limited content of the article and coming up with what I felt likely happened. It could very well be that the dog is blatantly vicious, in which case it should be destroyed as I've had too many close calls myself to tolerate any blatant aggresion. The only thing I can say for certain is that the Pit Bull in question most definatley should have a very thourough temperment test before anything further is decided.

On a related side note, a few minutes after making my last post in this thread last night I went to take my girls for their final night's potty (Keep reading this is all a bit too coincidental to be believable). I don't have a fenced yard so I have to take them out on leashes, and Zoey was wearing her spare collar as I had her normal one in the wash (Yes, I wash my dog's collars, quite sniggering...). When I say that the spare was one of those cheap collars with the plastic snap buckle, you can probablt guess where this is going. Anyway, Zoey catches sight of a raccoon about 50 yards across the way and maybe never having seen one before, she goes ballistic. She hit the end of the leash, twists, and the leash (I think) catches on something. The plastic buckle snapped and the next thing I know I've lost a black dog at night who's on her way for a one-on-one with a raccoon. Nothing ended up happening, the coon went up a tree before I could decide whether to let China loose after it as well, and I caught up with Zoey beneath that said tree.

The point of that story, aside from being eerily coincidental, being that even the simplest oversight (like me not checking the buckle regularly for integrety) can be the catalyst for something tragic to happen. I was somewhat lucky, my dog wasn't aggresively going after another dog or a person, I was also damn lucky that she didn't catch that raccoon which is fully capable of killing dogs larger than her size. One thing I can say is that I've learned my lesson, and if the Pit Bull owner is able to keep her dogs (actually even if she's not), and is capable of learning from her mistakes, hopefully she's learned her's a well.

One last thing regarding Chessies. In Southern Maryland where this breed was developed, the dogs were expected to be territorial and defend it's owners property. This still holds true today, particullarly in the rural areas where society hasn't quite yet dragged it's feet into the 20th Century. This further points out that ANY breed is capable of an assault no matter what one thinks a breed is likely or unlikely to do.

[Cairn6]

Oh no!! Now I am mad!! :evil: Where can we write? What can we do if were not in the area?

[DogPaddle]

Strange - generally its difficult to sue for any real money over dog bites here and as health care is free most people don't bother. Additionally if this is a first bite incident ACC here usually just uses a muzzle order (dog must be muzzled when outside owners home.) If they did decide to order the dog destroyed I wouldn't be surprised that they gave the owner the option to have it done at a vet of her choice. Saves them money and as there have been some nasty allegations of them performing intercardial puncture without aenestisia (sp?) they may be trying to insulate themselves from further allegations.

[rotten_two]

thanks again k -- once again in a couple of your previous posts you have seen past the actual bite and right to the dog logic of the situation! sometimes you have to get past the human emotion and think like a dog in order to understand what/why they do the things they do. 3 puncture wounds? not nearly enough to constitute a vicious attack! come on people --do you have any idea the damage a dog could do if he intended that attack, people have died! make no mistake i don't condone the biting or the pit owner being a complete moron. she should be punished and her dogs taken. i don't think tho the dog deserves to die!


mutts4me:

I agree with most that you say, but I'm highly disturbed by this comment. To repeat a question that's already been asked, what was he supposed to do, stand by and watch his dog being killed?

my point in that paragraph was that had this guy been educated enough he could have avoided a bite and harm to his dog or family. i am sorry if you feel highly disturbed by what i said. i will try to offer some explanation.

ok so let's say joe schmoe shih tzu owner is walking down the street. he has taken no precaution (direct stop, big stick, treats) in case of a meeting with a strange and aggressive dog. pit bulls approach. 1) put yourself between your dog and the approaching dog. i understand you have done this. i have done this. if you can break the stare you might buy enough time for the other owner to get control of her dog who just *broke* the leash. ok so let's say said pit keeps approaching with the intent stare and aggressive body posture. 2) throw one hand in front of you -- arm outstretched and stiff and in a stern tone say "SIT, STAY" directed at the pit. some people may not realize that we too can use our body to communicate with dogs. believe it or not this might work about half the time. if the pit actually stops to think or even sits then you have a few more seconds. pit keeps coming? ok this is where we're getting desperate because all this happens in like 10 seconds. is there a bush? is there some gravel in the street? maybe a stick near? see when i walk the pups (first of all i am prepared) but i am on the lookout for things in the environment that could help in a real jam. 3) bush rock or stick near by to distract the dog. get in a bush, throw rocks at the dog's face. use a stick to distract the dog. no dice? well now you are left with using your own body to shield your dog. i would do this in a heartbeat because my dogs mean that much to me. i would fight another dog to save my own. call me crazy. call me stupid but if it came to that i would do it. i think most of you feel the same! now you have to target the pit. track his movements and try to prevent his getting to the shih tzu. use your body. try to hit him in the nose or the eye somewhere that will hurt enough to make him stop at least temporarily. brace yourself because at this point you risk being bitten but at least you have tried something.

now realize that i am not so naive to think that any of these approaches will always or even sometimes work, but you have to take action. don't just stand there and pee yourself. some people act (take action) and some people react (brain shuts down not thinking -- deer in headlights). this dude reacted. admittedly it may get to the point of a bite anyway. but i would sleep much better at night knowing i did everything i could to deter it. no one wants to see their dog hurt. i am just suggesting that by re-training ourselves (by education and practice) to take action we could handle things better. i hope that clears things up. i was in no way shape or form suggesting the man stand idle and let the pit at the shih tzu! he had options!

[Taurus and Jada]

K, I could kiss you right now!!! :lol: Thank you so much for finding this out for me. I think I will calling the radio station today and asking why they did not contact this lady to hear her side of the story. They had an interview with the vicitims wife, but not with the dog owner. I have also contacted this email contact you gave me, and I plan on being at that park Sat am...

** ok, my mom just called, apparently this lady was on the news again and she had it broadcasted on teh newstation that she will be in the park to "educate" people on these dangerous breeds.

[rotten_two]

ok so i just read the "real" story as posted by k and am now super frustrated! if someone were to kick my dog they would be dam* lucky if i did not bite them myself! anyhoo yes the the dog should not have jumped up on the dude -- that is just rude but kicking? gimme a break! was she snarling? i doubt it. growling? not likely. did anything about her indicate that she was more than interested in the little dog? i bet not!

so i am confused, both dogs die now? this is flippin ridiculous!

[Taurus and Jada]

Ok,well I just got off the phone with the radio station. They said the reason they did not get in contact with this lady is beause they did not have the resources to find her (yeah right...), but if she contected them, they would be happy to air her side of the story. Now all I've got to do is see if I can get in touch with her and see if she will contact them...
You should have heard his ears perk up when I said that there would be people at teh park also to educate the general public on the common misconceptions of the breed. He says "Now that sounds interesteing!". Who knows maybe the media will be there too!
K, how did you find this info out? You're good!