tell me what u think byb?????

[CKMILK]

I think my husbands relative is a puppy mill or byb. she has alot of dogs like 20-25, they are small havanees (sp?) and she has some shizues and some egyption dog little one. like a farow hound. she cuts hair also and she breeds these dogs. she acts like she knows what is always going on with them. i think it is more for attention. She charges 1,500 a pup for the havanees. She does show them and wins titles on them. but why so many. they are always in the kennel or in the crates. I just think she possibly cant know any of there personalities how would she have time??? I know she gives the shots her self but dont know what else they get. well what do you think???

[Shenanigans]

Seems questionable. But I'm trying to ascertain whether they sound questionable because you seem really negative about it, or whether she is truly questionable, because all of the circumstances you mentioned, could be the situation of a responsible breeder. The thing that bothers me, is that the dogs are always in the kennels or crates, which is irresponsible.

But here are some examples of what I mean.

I do of know breeders I'd consider responsible who have 20+ dogs, some of those dogs might be puppies they're holding onto, retired dogs, or dogs they have yet to place. Needless to say, in order for their dogs to thrive, taking care of them is a fulltime job in itself and most breeders who have this many have hubby's that make pretty decent money. *G* Most breeders I know that have this much, usually have a breed that is fairly non dog aggressive.

My friend who has a herd of Newfoundlands stays at home with them, she is pretty much out with the dogs from dawn to dusk, exercising, playing, grooming, feeding and training. When she's inside, she's on the phone to other breeders/fanciers or studying pedigrees. And then on weekends, she's on the road to shows, trials, vets etc. She is one of the most responsible breeders I know. She can tell which dog is barking simply by listening, she can detail each dogs personality to a tee and she can ID each dog flawlessly and when they're all black and hairy, it's easier said than done. I had a hard time picking out my own when we let him lose with the girls (he's neutered) for playtime.

I also know breeders who vaccinate their own dogs as far as the law permits. I was considering it myself at one point.

Almost every responsible breeder I know, does their own grooming for the show ring, otherwise the costs for a groomer would just add up big time.

As for the price, $1500.00 for a rare breed doesn't seem outrageous to me. To achieve a title on a rare breed you have increased expenses, likewise with breeding as you will often have to do some travel to a suitable dog. Also simply depends on where you are and the general going rate. I know a Newfoundland here should run you about $1500.00, but I know of breeders in SK or AB that might charge half that. It seems weird considering there are more Newfs in my province, but my province is also very expensive to live in.

[imported_Cassie]

Shenanigans is right, it is questionable.
I know of many reputable breeders who are into 3 different breeds, one of my friends breeds & shows Tibetian spaniels, Dalmations and Dobies...she has been known to have many more than 23 dogs at a time. She also has a staff who takes care of her dogs. No, they are not all house dogs...she does have a couple of retired house dogs in the house though.
Her dogs are well looked after and shown on the weekends...the reason she keeps so many...she has the space, the money and she loves to show. She has a hard time selling pups she feels may be next years top show dog. She also vaccinates her own dogs, the only vaccine she needs a vet to do by law is rabies...for this she has her friend who is a vet come down and vaccinate.
My freind who breeds Newfoundlands currently has 12 Newfoundlands and a litter on the way. She also stays at home with them part time, when she is not there she has me come down to take care of them. She has a 2 acre feild fenced off for "play time". Her dogs are very well looked after and she does all of her own grooming...you wouldn't find so much as a heavy area with undercoat coming out :lol: she also brushes all of the dogs teeth daily, grooms them all weekly (or has me do it) and she takes them on the road. Her retired dogs live in her home. Her show dogs stay in the kennel. I don't think they have a bad life...and I certainly wouldn't consider her a back yard breeder. She is the head of Newfoundland dog rescue and she is also very much involved with the Newfoundland dog club of Canada. She is a peer to many other breeders and has been there to give advise to other breeders.

She can tell which dog is barking simply by listening, she can detail each dogs personality to a tee and she can ID each dog flawlessly and when they're all black and hairy, it's easier said than done. I had a hard time picking out my own when we let him lose with the girls (he's neutered) for playtime.

It's funny that you mention that :lol: I was just thinking about my first day on the job with her 12 Newfoundland dogs...she had each dogs name written down and what they ate and what supplements each was on...she had introduced me to each of her dogs the day before and expected I would be able to tell them apart :o within 1 week I couldn't understand how I couldn't tell them apart...once you get used to them they are very very distinctive from each other. :lol: :wink:
I still have a hard time with a new litter of puppies :roll: the breeders last litter consisted of 7 pups. She had them all named at 3 days of age...and she expected I could tell them apart..fat chance on that! I still don't know if she could tell them apart or if she was having fun with me letting me believe she could tell them apart :lol: :wink:

$1500.00 is not a big price for a dog. My friend charges $2500.00 american for her dogs. If you can't pay it, then you really shouldn't have one in the first place :lol: :wink:
I think the thing which sets reputable breeders apart from BYB is the fact that reputable breeders test all of their dogs for genetic disorders. Are very very picky about who buys there dogs...my friend will not sell a Newfoundland dog to any one with young children or planning on having children. Her simple way of thinking is that most times the dog is put on the back burner and neglected. She will not put her dogs in a situation like that. She keeps in touch with every one who buys one of her puppies and insists they send her updates and pictures via e-mails. She was once approached by a korean couple at a dog show, they offered her $10,000.00 for one of her dogs she was showing. She turned them down as the dog would be going much too far away.
I guess it comes down to, when you are a responsible, reputable breeder you love all of your dogs as if they were your children. You are in it to "supposedly better the breed", and you invest alot of money into it. You are not in it to make big bucks.

[CKMILK]

Well i dont think she gets thoes test done i dont know but she has a small run and she had to get a job besides being a groomer. I know my husbands sister watched her dogs when she went on vacation and one little dog had its foot caught in the bottom of a wire cage. i had to go over and get it out. It was like she was walking on the wire and the poop just falls through like a rabbit i didnt like that. i thought that would hurt my feet. thats how the cages were stacked. her house smells like wet dog smell. and I saw one little dog lift up its leg on the wall and pee. Nobody else noticed that he was doing this. I just think she went overboard just for the money. she once told me when i had a boxer puppy i should show it and i could make money off of the puppies.

[imported_Matty]

Yep, sounds like a BYB to me.
Some one who keeps pups in wire cages and lets them walk on wire is not a reputable breeder.
I would report this person.

All dogs have the right to proper accomodations, love, walks and socialization. It does not sound as though many of these pups are getting proper care.

[Shenanigans]

It's funny that you mention that I was just thinking about my first day on the job with her 12 Newfoundland dogs...she had each dogs name written down and what they ate and what supplements each was on...she had introduced me to each of her dogs the day before and expected I would be able to tell them apart within 1 week I couldn't understand how I couldn't tell them apart...once you get used to them they are very very distinctive from each other.
I still have a hard time with a new litter of puppies the breeders last litter consisted of 7 pups. She had them all named at 3 days of age...and she expected I could tell them apart..fat chance on that! I still don't know if she could tell them apart or if she was having fun with me letting me believe she could tell them apart

I am in awe of people who can tell 20 different Newfoundlands apart. I think I'm just dull. lol But maybe there's hope, after all, I have only ever had one Newf in my life...so far. I am pressuring DH for a girl to name Smoochy.

When I bred Shelties it was so easy since there are different colours, even with two sables, you could tell by the shading or the sock patterns.

On the plus side, when I let my Newf roam in the pack of girls, I can try and sneak one of the more sane girls home...unfortunately my breeder can always tell. We still have great fun trying. ;)