NOT pleased with my boy

[imported_nea]

The past few days Web's been fantastically good and I am starting to be able to let him be off-leash most of the time. :) This morning I took him out, on leash, checked to see if there were any other dogs close by and then let him go. He was excellent. We went to the big lawn/playground in the center of the buildings, where he usually gets to run around to get rid of some energy. I stood at watched him and he acted perfectly normal. Then he went behind one of the sliding boards. A grey streak started moving away, and Web followed. I saw it was a cat and whistled, then yelled "Webster, NO!!" which he ignored. I tried throwing the leash on him to get his attention which sometiems works when he is being "deaf" (the leash is soft, it doesn't hurt! :wink:) but he was too far away. So I started running after them, calling Web's name. Finally I heard Web bark, the cat had gotten up to a balcony and he was below. I went over to him, scolding, then grabbed his skin (quite roughly, I'm affraid :() and told him "bad dog", and leashed him and briskly walked home ignoring him. When we got home I didn't pay any attention to him either, I was too shook up. I'm still trembling, but Webby did come up to me and butted my arm with his nose so I have forgiven him. At this time a day there is no traffic whatsoever on the roads here so I wasn't scared that he'd be hit, or anything like that. But what if it had been later in the day? I guess from now on I'd better check for cats before I let him go. :(

I know its my fault, but I still can't help but be irked at both the cat and its owner. There are so many cats here who are outdoor cats, even though there ARE roads that sometimes cars and buses go by on. An outdoor cat here could get hurt, and no one picks up after outdoor cats so there is cat dirt all over in the sandboxes and gravel. And the cat, it should have had the sense to stand its ground and fight instead of fleeing. Idiot cat. :x (just had to get that out. I know very well that it was my fault and I'm not trying to blame the cat or its owner)

I don't think I reacted very well, if this were to happen again what do I do?

[Guest Anonymous]

dont yo hate it when they play deaf? lol Zoey does it allt het ime when she see's another dog and wants to play we say leave it or stay and she will still try and run off the front patio to get the dog completely ignoring us :roll:

[Aroura]

I probably would have reacted exactly the same way. Its so frustrating when they turn the deaf ear, and all you can do really is get them back on that chain and away from what they are after. Just remember when he's off lead to do plenty of recalls just to give him a treat, a good bit of chicken usually does the trick, at least then, although there are still exeptions, they are less likely to turn a deaf ear on you when its important.

I agree with you on the cat thing. Cats are the biggest disease spreaders, they roam from yard to yard spreading fleas and parasites, pooing in peoples gardens and harrassing their dogs. We've always had cats, they have done exactly the same as everyone elses cats, only because mum didn't want them as indoor pets. That being said I'll be getting a Devon Rex of my very own in about a year, but only when I am settled somewhere and can afford to build a cat run, so that it can be an indoor pet, yet have access to its own bit of the outdoor world, where it can't kill wildlife, harass dogs or spread disease.

[imported_Cassie]

I live with a Rottie with a very high prey drive. It is very common for most of our dogs (all dogs have some level of predatory drive) to chase some thing which moves be it a cat, rabbit, bike riders, other dogs etc.
What I have found works well for me is a good emergency "down" when my Rottie has spotted a prey item. I find if you yell at the dog and start running after them they "think" you are joining in on the pursuit :wink:
With my Rottie when she is in the down position I am able to calmly walk up to her always from the side, never from a direct frontal approach , pat her and reward her for being so good and clip on her lead. This has saved me from alot of horrible situations which could have happened. Most dogs when in the heat of the moment and pursuing the prey object will not respond to a recall...and when you get exicited this raises the dogs excitement. If you find an emergency down doesnt work you could carry an item such as a ball or some other toy to throw in the opposite direction...hopefully your dog will chase that item instead of the prey object...or as a preventative be very observant on your walks, always walk in front of your dog and watch for prey objects when your dog is off lead or get a flexi lead for a little more freedom or find a nice big enclosed area such as a ball field...just make sure you clean up well, you wouldn't want any ball players sliding into a home pile. :lol:

Then he went behind one of the sliding boards. A grey streak started moving away, and Web followed. I saw it was a cat and whistled, then yelled "Webster, NO!!" which he ignored. I tried throwing the leash on him to get his attention which sometiems works when he is being "deaf" (the leash is soft, it doesn't hurt! ) but he was too far away. So I started running after them, calling Web's name. Finally I heard Web bark, the cat had gotten up to a balcony and he was below. I went over to him, scolding, then grabbed his skin (quite roughly, I'm affraid ) and told him "bad dog", and leashed him and briskly walked home ignoring him. When we got home I didn't pay any attention to him either

I just want to explain that Web was not being a "bad" dog, nor was he purposely ignoring you. Predatory drive for a dog is a built in instinct which is much more powerful and strong than any thing else. The act of chasing a prey object is internally rewarding for a dog... it is not proper to punish them for doing some thing which comes naturally and driven by instinct. The cat was also acting on instinct, a small cat having a large fellow predator chasing it is going to run away its called survival :wink: a cat will fight back if it feels cornered or if its on home turf.
Remember if you chase your dog when it is in predatory drift the dog assumes you are joining in on the chase. Try to train an emergency down, they will down before they will do a recall as they can still see the prey object...have you ever watched border collies working, when the owner whistles and has them clap, which is a down...you see the border collie get down but its still watching the prey object (sheep) and waiting for its next command.
You have to learn to work "with" the predatory drive, not try to repress it. Find outlets for Web's predatory drive by playing games of fresbee or ball games with him, he would probably do great in agility.

When we got home I didn't pay any attention to him either, I was too shook up. I'm still trembling, but Webby did come up to me and butted my arm with his nose so I have forgiven him

Web does not know that his predatory drive and chasing the cat upset you. All that Web knows is his owner is acting unpredictable and Web doesnt understand why...so he is trying to appease you. You dog does not associate a normal act such as chasing a prey object as being bad...he is associating you as being unpredictable and scary. Try to remember, Web is a dog not a human...he is dictated by dog instincts, the act of chasing is an instinct which you can work with and direct in the right type of activity ....but, you cannot expect to train this drive out of your dog :wink:

As for cats running loose, I do agree that people should not allow their cats to roam at large...I built an outdoor kennel for my cats with a topper on it and in the kennel I put in a sand box, a few trees for them to climb and ledges etc. its big enough for them to run around and play and I don't have to worry about them bothering neighbors, killing the wild life and pooping in neighbors and my vegetable gardens. My parents live in an area where there are many cats running loose, they can not enjoy their bird feeder, they had to take it down as it was a suicide area for local birds, they got rid of their veggie garden as local cats were pooping in the garden..when you think of diseases such as toxoplasmia (sp?) it can be scary stuff.

Good luck with web and remember redirect his predatory drive, don't try to punish hm for a natural instinct.
My Rottie is doing wonderful since I taught her an emergency down when she sees a prey object...I always know when she has caught a scent or sees a prey object before I do as her ears prick up just slightly and she puts her head down a little to better catch the scent...this happens within seconds and its at this point I get her to down before she starts chasing. :wink:

[imported_nea]

Thanks for the advice.. Hopefully next time something like this happens I'll be able to think more rationally. :) I've started working more on Web's down. Ever since I taught him to bow he's been leaving his rear end in the air for a while before sinking down into a down position so its gone to give that a bit of a brushup anyway. :) One problem though- he spins around and lays down facing me. :-? How can I get him to stop that?

Walking in front of him won't work, he likes being ahead or at least by my side except for when he stops to sniff. And I don't want to use a flexi because usually he IS very good off leash, there are only 3 times (counting this one) that I can remember him running off. When I was gone and my mom took him for a walk he even came when there was a deer there! I wonder if part of him reacting so strongly to the cat today could have been his mood? The morning was very strange and I think he was slightly worried... Once before he started chasing a cat (differnt one though) and did stop when I said "no". Do you think him being a bit stressed could have contributed? I do use a long rope somtimes on walks, and that seems to work but not while I'm out on the lawn. We do play lots of frisbee (thats what he's doing in my avatar :wink:) and also some retrieving.

You're right, Cassie, Web wasn't being bad. :oops: If this happens again I hope I'll be able to realize that right away. :oops: :D

[Aroura]

nea napisał(a):

One problem though- he spins around and lays down facing me. :-? How can I get him to stop that?

That all depends on how you train him :wink:

If you clicker train him, thats easy, just highten the criteria for him dropping how he is until he is doing it how you want him to. If you use any other method of training, sorry, I can't help! :o

With the bow, that is one thing that is SUCH a cute trick, but I don't think I'll teach it to one of my dogs ever again. Montie is pretty good with his drops, but if he's not comfortable on the surface he's on he'll just do a bow. Also, because it was the first trick I shaped when ever he's not sure what to do he just runs around bowing at everybody. Its very cute, but makes it hard to shape anything else. For example, I've just taught him to "talk" on command - because he was bowing when he started whining and I clicked and treated, he now thinks that "talk" means "bow and squeak" or "bow and sneeze"... I must admit, its very cute :wink: