Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Ok well a lady on my aussie board gave me alink about termonlogy and ont here htey had a link to merle colors in Poms, VERY beautiful i think ( they are not the link i'm about tos how you ) so i started to look around in my area for a breeder that had the merle'd poms.. well this site came up. and they have *ALOT* of dogs/puppies and state they are planning a lot of litters this year.. sounds puppymillish to me. they only want $250 for their dogs and are addign Chi's also to their breeding dogs.. what do you think? http://www.cjmshouseofpoms.com/home.html Quote
__crazy_canine__ Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Well, I would say yes. I only saw a little bit of the site so far but I came across mixed breed pups that they bred! :o I just find it ironic that they have an image that says "Say No To Puppy Mills!" :roll: ...Ill look at it more later but I find it odd that any responsible breeder would have so many litters and mixed breeds too. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Terrible back yard breeders at best...a 2 day health guarantee and a 1 year genetic defect guarantee. I would have to say border line Puppy mill if not full blown. All the years I"ve been around Poms I've never seen a merle pom. I didn't think those and Parti's were accepted colors! Quote
pLaurent Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 I don't know...one of their studs has been shown to a championship. BUT the fact that they are breeding so much seems like they are merely breeding to create pets to sell and make money, and not for any other reason. Sounds very backyard breeder to me. And yeah, nice that another family member bred a litter of mutts. :roll: Quote
Carolk9s Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Actually the price for the pups is higher than $250, some are QUITE higher. The $250 is for shipping a single pup. Even their pet pups start at $400. Quote from the prices area: ** Note - Merle puppies will be priced between $1,500 and $5,000, based on the same standards listed in our terms. Because of the controversy in relation to showing a Merle puppy I am making no statement as to the capability of a Merle winning in the show ring. She says some 'right' things but in MY opinion, far too much is wrong here. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 oh see i must have read it wrong.. where do you see the prices for the pups? i dont see themm.. not that i'm going to buy one becuase i think it's way to fishy .. they have a lot of animals.. ? :fadein: Quote
cheekymunkee Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 It looks like one to me!! BUT those little merle's are adorable aren't they? Debby Quote
Carolk9s Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 From the main link, click on Pups for Sale, then scroll all the way down, right below the paypal icon on the left is a link to terms of sale and prices. I have not looked around the entire site but I don't see any health checks being done. I feel she is definitely in it for the money, NOT for the love of the dogs. Quote
Smooshie Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 DeafAussieLover napisał(a):oh see i must have read it wrong.. where do you see the prices for the pups? i dont see themm.. not that i'm going to buy one becuase i think it's way to fishy .. they have a lot of animals.. ? :fadein: Pet (limited registration) Orange, orange sable, red, red sable, black $400 to $650 Pet (limited registration) Exotic* colors $500 to $800 Breeding/Show Prospect Orange, orange sable, red, red sable, black $650 to $1,000 Breeding/Show Prospect Exotic* colors $800 to $1,500 Merles** Pet Only (Limited Registration) $1,500 to $2,500 Merles** Breeding Prospect $2,500 to $5,000 Quote
pLaurent Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Yeah but if you look at the "championship" paper its all in German and have you ever heard of that registery before? No, I didn't see that! And 1500$+ for merles? Is merle in the standard for Poms? Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 From what I understand Merles are not acceptable. Quote
Queen Bitch Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Anyone who charges by color has BYB/puppy mill/irresponsible and jackass written all over them. Quote
pLaurent Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 It's German, and I got kind of curious and found this: ""The International All-Breed Canine Association of America (IABCA) began approximately fifteen years ago with the intent of making an International "UCI" Championship Title available to the American public while not exposing the dogs to the danger and inconvenience of international travel. To accomplish this, an association was formed with an International Association of dog clubs headquartered in Germany, the Union Cynologie International (UCI). The UCI organization has been in existence for over 30 years. There are many countries, throughout Europe, North America and the Far East, represented in the association. Through UCI, International Titles are awarded to dogs who meet the requirements." "IABCA shows are held in accordance with the German regulations and guidelines that have been established by UCI. The guidelines provide for a WRITTEN CRITIQUE OF EACH DOG ENTERED and a rating number of how well the dog conforms to the International "UCI" breed standard. The rating a dog received, based on the critique, will determine the type of championship certificate, if any, is awarded in the class. Each dog will receive an "URKUNDE" (certificate of participation) with it's class placement noted. NOTE: The International "UCI" standards are based on the "country of origin" for each breed, if possible." Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 I'm new to this forum, a Cocker breeder, and the word "puppy mill" caught my eye while looking over the various topics. The term "puppy mill" was started by the animal rights activists about 15 years ago and is used pejoratively by them about ANYONE who breeds, so I am very surprised to see other dog breeders using the term. I believe breeders can be classified as commercial, show and/or hobby breeders, but the terms "puppy mill" and "back yard breeder" are definately not terms that I would throw around lightly, especially about people that I know nothing about. I have been around dogs all of my life--my Mother was a Cocker breeder for almost 20 years--and years ago it was nothing for a typical kennel to have a dozen dogs or more, and people certainly expected to make money at it. I'm afraid that organizations like PETA and the Humane Society of the United States have even convinced breeders that it is somehow "evil" to breed, which is a shame, because these organizations' agenda is the end of the use of ALL domesticted animals--no pets, no livestock for meat, no zoos, circuses or rodeos, and we must all become vegetarians. There is a very high demand now for small dogs, as spaying and neutering has at last succeeded in reducing the numbers of euthanasias of adoptable pets--reduced by about 70 percent or more since the 1970's, and in some areas of the country there are now actually shortages of small dogs and puppies. There are still some areas of the country with animal "over population" problems, like Los Angeles and parts of the South, but some shelters in the NE United States are even importing small dogs from Peurto Rico, the Phillipines and Taiwan, bringing in new diseases into the US, in order to meet the demand for small dogs, while breeding is being discouraged here in the US by ever tightening rules and regulations against breeders, constantly put forth by the animal rights extremists. But if I were looking for a small dog, I would certainly rather have a dog from these people than a dog off of the streets of Peurto Rico. I would also be careful how you toss around these terms--"puppy mill" and "back yard breeder"-- so as to protect yourself legally, as anything said so publically that would injure these people's business can be construed legally as "slander," and they can sue you for damages, and no disclaimers about these postings being "private" will protect you if they can prove financial injury. SunDog in Florida Quote
cheekymunkee Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 sundog napisał(a):I'm new to this forum, a Cocker breeder, and the word "puppy mill" caught my eye while looking over the various topics. The term "puppy mill" was started by the animal rights activists about 15 years ago and is used pejoratively by them about ANYONE who breeds, so I am very surprised to see other dog breeders using the term. I believe breeders can be classified as commercial, show and/or hobby breeders, but the terms "puppy mill" and "back yard breeder" are definately not terms that I would throw around lightly, especially about people that I know nothing about. I have been around dogs all of my life--my Mother was a Cocker breeder for almost 20 years--and years ago it was nothing for a typical kennel to have a dozen dogs or more, and people certainly expected to make money at it. I'm afraid that organizations like PETA and the Humane Society of the United States have even convinced breeders that it is somehow "evil" to breed, which is a shame, because these organizations' agenda is the end of the use of ALL domesticted animals--no pets, no livestock for meat, no zoos, circuses or rodeos, and we must all become vegetarians. There is a very high demand now for small dogs, as spaying and neutering has at last succeeded in reducing the numbers of euthanasias of adoptable pets--reduced by about 70 percent or more since the 1970's, and in some areas of the country there are now actually shortages of small dogs and puppies. There are still some areas of the country with animal "over population" problems, like Los Angeles and parts of the South, but some shelters in the NE United States are even importing small dogs from Peurto Rico, the Phillipines and Taiwan, bringing in new diseases into the US, in order to meet the demand for small dogs, while breeding is being discouraged here in the US by ever tightening rules and regulations against breeders, constantly put forth by the animal rights extremists. But if I were looking for a small dog, I would certainly rather have a dog from these people than a dog off of the streets of Peurto Rico. I would also be careful how you toss around these terms--"puppy mill" and "back yard breeder"-- so as to protect yourself legally, as anything said so publically that would injure these people's business can be construed legally as "slander," and they can sue you for damages, and no disclaimers about these postings being "private" will protect you if they can prove financial injury. SunDog in Florida Well, puppy millers & BYBers can sue me all they want BUT I can almost BET that I could prove they are such. Wouldn't be too hard to do would it? Debby Quote
__crazy_canine__ Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 :stupid: :ices_blah: ...that was a long post about pretty much nothing! I dont know where you get your information from but there are PLENTY of small dogs in the world, we dont need people to keep breeding them to get their numbers up believe me!!! Over-population is still a very BIG problem so I have no idea what youre talking about! I dont think breeding is neccesarilly bad but when the wrong people do it then yes. PLUS it will take many, many, MANY more years of people not breeding to solve the over-population problem so get over yourself! the end of the use of ALL domesticted animals--no pets, no livestock for meat, no zoos, circuses or rodeos, and we must all become vegetarians. This doesnt even make sense! Animals in zoos are not domestic! Sorry I know I shouldnt have replied but this just angers me so bad. :evil: :roll: Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Yes there is such a large deamdn for small dogs that right now on Petfinder there : 201 Bichon Frise 297 Boston Terriers 1710 Chihuahua 1548Cocker Spaniels 159 Maltese 449 Pomeranians 671 Poodles So how are you part of the solution? Quote
pLaurent Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 So how are you part of the solution? What do you think? REPUTABLE breeders do NOT breed because there is a "demand" for a breed. Only puppymills and backyard breeders do that. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 lol I agree.. that was a long post about NOTHING.. :roll: and They can sue me too if they want for calling them BYB and a Puppy Mill becuase that sure looks like with it is to me and looks like many pther peole agree with me :D Quote
pitbullEmily Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 [quote name='__crazy_canine__']:stupid: :ices_blah: ... the end of the use of ALL domesticted animals--no pets, no livestock for meat, no zoos, circuses or rodeos, and we must all become vegetarians. This doesnt even make sense! Animals in zoos are not domestic! Sorry I know I shouldnt have replied but this just angers me so bad. :evil: :roll: she means that PETA and HSUS have an agenda of "no animal use"; she misspoke since that includes wildlife as well as domesticated species. The most avant garde of the animal rights philosophers (Tom Regan, Peter Singer etc) certainly do hold that humans should not "exploit" other animals. PETA is a group that tries to put this philosophy into action. PETA has views ranging from the bizarre to the biologically illiterate. They hate pit bulls, too. If you want to try to understand the whole "there is no overpopulation" thing, sign up on the yahoo group "pet-law" and lurk for awhile. Quote
cheekymunkee Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 Good luck suing me anyway!! Even if they were to win (highly unlikely) all they would get would be some speuterd dogs & cats!! Bank owns everything else! :lol: Debby Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 [quote name='pLaurent']So how are you part of the solution? What do you think? REPUTABLE breeders do NOT breed because there is a "demand" for a breed. Only puppymills and backyard breeders do that. Uhhh no not at all. Not quite what I was trying to say. I was showing her that there are plenty of small dogs on petfinder and then asked how she is part of the over population solution. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted July 13, 2004 Posted July 13, 2004 cheekymunkee napisał(a):Good luck suing me anyway!! Even if they were to win (highly unlikely) all they would get would be some speuterd dogs & cats!! Bank owns everything else! :lol: Debby LOL You too?? Quote
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