Smartest Dog?

[Guest Anonymous]

What breed would you guys consider is the smartest and easiest to train dog? I heard that it's the Border Collies

Chihuahuas On The Web
http://www.freewebs.com/chihuahua

[Beautiful Border Collie]

Yes, you are right. The Border Collie is the smartest breed. At this moment i have 11 of them :o
Whos training who? :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

Mei-Mei napisał(a):

Here I come to throw a spanner into the works!

Border Collies are accepted as the smartest breed. But smart is a very subjective term. Dogs like Border Collies and German Shepherds are considered very trainable, hence smart. But lots of breeds that are considered highly intelligent are a little harder to train. A lot of the flock guardians are bred to be independent thinkers. So you might say 'Come' to your Akbash Dog and it might walk off thinking 'Okay, I'll come in a minute, but first I need to go see how the sheep are doing.'

So it's really hard to categorize the smartest dog. It's very simple to categorize the most trainable. That breed is the Border Collie. :D

HERE HERE! THat's one reason I like my LGD's!

[Cairn6]

Gee I always heard it was the poodle. I was also told by my both the trainers at different places that cairns are extremely smart the one were working with now he went on and on telling everyone to just watch this dog you'll be amazed. He said is was precisely for the reason mentioned it's the ability to think things through not just blindly follow. He is very smart there is nothing you can't teach him. Now whether he is the smartest who knows it's not like people pay that much attention to this breed it's hard to find anyone that even knows what he is when walking down the street. At it's not like I am biased or anything. :wink:

[Guest Anonymous]

http://www.petrix.com/dogint/1-10.html


those are some sites I found. I own a beagle. He is a so-so with the brains. My GSD is not as near as smart as my Grandma's Bordercollie.
I think that third smartest is a long ways from first!! :lol: :lol:

Read this too! It is really cool. This dog knows alot of words.
I mean A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[i]Common Collie or Uberpooch?
German Pet's Vocabulary Stuns Scientists
By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 11, 2004; Page A01


Rico, a border collie with what appears to be an uncanny talent for human language, may be a genius among dogs or just your average pooch. Either way, he has scientists wondering if man's best friend is smarter than they thought.




A series of careful studies concluded that the energetic German house dog has a stunningly large vocabulary of about 200 words and can even do something scientists thought only humans could do: figure out by the process of elimination that a sound he has never heard before must be the name of a toy he has never seen before.

That feat, described in today's issue of the journal Science, suggests that dog owners who claim their pets understand what they are saying and are trying to respond may have been right all along.

"Maybe this is the Albert Einstein of dogs. Or maybe this is something that other dogs can do, too," said Julia Fischer, a biologist at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, who helped test Rico. "We just don't know. We need to find out."

While many species can be trained to recognize the names of objects, what makes Rico unusual is that he knows so many words, can puzzle out the names of new objects on the first try and weeks later is surprisingly good at remembering what he learned, the researchers said.

"This is an extremely provocative paper," said Robert Seyfarth, a University of Pennsylvania psychologist who studies monkey behavior and communication. "Dog owners will say a lot of things about their dogs. The question is always, 'Are dogs really as smart as they think they are?' This says they might be."

The findings are the latest evidence that animals are capable of more complex communication than had been thought, and that dogs, in particular, are especially astute at comprehending their human companions.

Rico's talents are prompting some scientists to go so far as to speculate that dogs might even have the capacity to speak -- like Mister Ed, the talking horse in the 1960s television show -- if only they had the necessary anatomy.

"If Rico had a human vocal tract, one would presume that he should be able to say the names of the items as well, or at least try to do so," said Sue Savage-Rumbaugh, who studies animal communication and intelligence at Georgia State University. "It also raises the issue of whether Rico and/or other dogs or other mammals might already be trying to say words, but have great difficulty being understood."

While praising the new work, some scientists remained cautious, saying the research needed to be repeated to confirm the findings and that it was far from clear what Rico understands about the sounds to which he responds.

"I think it's a gorgeous study. It's clever and impressive," said Paul Bloom, a Yale University psychologist who wrote an article accompanying the new study. "But I'm skeptical about exactly what he has learned. I'm not sure I would call it a 'word.' "

Scientists have long debated the ability of animals to think and communicate. At the turn of the 20th century, a horse named Clever Hans that supposedly could add and subtract became infamous when researchers showed the stallion was just responding to subtle cues from his owner.

But scientists have since determined that many species have complex vocalizations that enable them to communicate sophisticated information among themselves. And researchers have been able to teach many creatures to recognize human symbols and language. A bonobo ape named Kanzi, for example, can understand dozens of symbols. Alex, an African gray parrot, can identify a wide array of objects, shapes, colors and materials. And recent studies have shown that dogs are remarkably adept at reading human gestures.

Researchers had thought, however, that the only creatures capable of instantly assigning meaning to a novel word -- called "fast mapping" -- were human toddlers, who use the strategy to learn language.

"Fast mapping was thought to be something exclusively human. It is how children learn the meanings of new words," Fischer said. "Nobody thought this could be done by an animal."

She and her colleagues conducted a series of experiments on the 9-year-old border collie after his owners claimed he knew the names of about 200 objects -- his collection of toys, balls and stuffed animals.

In the first experiment, the researchers put 10 of Rico's toys in one room and Rico and his owner in another. The investigators then instructed the owner to order Rico to fetch two randomly selected items. As Rico ran into the other room and began searching for the items, he could not have picked up any hints from his owner because the owner was out of sight.

In 40 tests, Rico got it right 37 times, demonstrating he had a vocabulary comparable to dolphins, apes, sea lions and parrots that have undergone extensive training.

The researchers then repeated the test, except this time they put seven of his toys in the other room along with one he had never seen before. His owner then called out the unfamiliar name of the new toy. Rico correctly retrieved the new item in seven out of 10 tries.

"This tells us he can do simple logic," Fischer said in a telephone interview. "It's like he's saying to himself, 'I know the others have names, so this new word cannot refer to my familiar toys. It must refer to this new thing.' Or it goes the other way around, and he's thinking, 'I've never seen this one before, so this must be it.' He's actually thinking."

About a month later, the researchers tested Rico again, prompting him to retrieve objects from groups of four familiar and four new toys. He got it right three out of six times, a rate comparable to what a typical 3-year-old human toddler could do.

"Of course, for a child, a word very rapidly means much more than it does for a dog. They will quickly know it's a color word or an activity word. Their representation will be much richer than it is for a dog," Fischer said. "But in terms of this task, he is as smart as kids are."

Other scientists said important questions remain about whether animals are capable of complex syntax, which makes human communication unique. But many said Rico's apparent capabilities nevertheless appeared remarkable.

"A lot of people have argued that the perceptual and cognitive mechanism that underlie what we call language and speech acquisition are unique to humans," said Mark Bekoff, who studies dogs at the University of Colorado. "What this study shows clearly is that is not the case. What this shows is that other animals possess those cognitive and perceptual abilities."

Savage-Rumbaugh, who works with the bonobo Kanzi, said she has demonstrated, although not yet published, similar findings from tests on at least two other border collies.

"No doubt others will quickly replicate this study," Savage-Rumbaugh wrote in an e-mail, "and Rico will be shown to be an ordinary dog with a large vocabulary."

[Guest Anonymous]

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/labsandpugs/top10smart.html

sorry I goofed! I put the same link on twice!! Im a dork :lol:

[imported_Cassie]

What breed would you guys consider is the smartest and easiest to train dog?

Easiest to train doing what??? :o
If I wanted to train a dog to be a pointer, I am not going to get too far with a border collie. Their eye stalk is hard wired to their chase behavior. Does this mean a border collie is not as intelligent as a pointer?

If I want a live stock guardian dog and I decide to use a border collie...will the collie have the intelligence not to eye stalk and chase the sheep?? no. does this mean the border collie is not as intelligent as the livestock guardian dog?

IMO, each breed is intelligent for the job they were bred for. I have seen dogs from each breed display different levels of intelligence. I have seen some Newfoundland dogs actually blow me away for being able to figure things out (kennel doors etc.). I have been amazed watching GSD's doing schutzhound. It is wonderful watching a team of huskies have the intelligence to work together to pull a sled.
So for myself, I think all breeds are very intelligent. I have seen some border collies which the owners cannot seem to train at all...and I have seen some brillant border collies as well as other breeds.

So I think intelligence of a dog should be determined.
What it was orginally bred for.
The owner who trains the dog, and the owner encouraging the dog to succeed.

I have seen dogs from every breed display some high levels of intelligence depending on the individual dog. I have met some owners who encourage intelligence, and others who repress intelligence in their dogs.

[gooeydog]

smart is a very subjective term

How true that is :lol: . Annie (Dachshund, not a breed reknowned for its trainability) is often slow to pick up on new things, but to watch her thinking and trying to figure something out on her own is amazing. She's a good free thinker, and quick to figure out what works when left to do things her way. Neither of the bullies are so independent, but both are much more biddable, and eager to please, which makes teaching them easier (they're also thinkers, but tend to look for more guidance in what they're doing than Annie). They're fine thinking that they're learning something from me, but Annie needs to be fooled into thinking it was all her idea to begin with :lol: .

"Smart" for you may be different from smart for me, or the person down the road, and it's hard to draw a hard conclusion that x breed is smartest, when "smart" in itself will have varying definitions.

[Aroura]

"Intellegence Tests" carried out for dogs including tests of trainability and ability to figure things out show working dogs such as border collies, blue cattle dogs and kelpies, as well as German Shepherds, Toy Poodles, and, of course, the lovable yet clever, Papillon all to be in the top ten "smartest" breeds. However, I do agree that there are different sorts of intellegence, I consider Basenjis to be one of the smartest breeds, however they'd rate pretty low on that sort of test because, like any wild dog, they are practically untrainable.

As for opening doors, Lily was the queen, if she saw someone open a door just three times she would then open it, if it was locked she'd unlock it first, what ever sort of door it was if it was possible she'd open it. I had to padlock the gate after she kept unlocking it (one of those hard to unlock ones too) and getting out. She thought she was a little person :wink:

[kendalyn]

Yeah, I really think it depends on what you want them to do. I read an article where Standard Poodles were first selected to be guidance dogs because they are so smart and trainable, but they didn't do well because they were too independent. It may be a little tougher to train the Labs and Goldens, but their temperment is more suited for it.

Buck is very smart and catches on to things quickly but there is no way he could ever compete in schutzhound or something like that. His temperment is too soft and he would not enjoy it at all. It doesn't mean he wouldn't have the ability to pick it up, but he would still be terrible at it because he would hate it.

I would say that we often confuse being smart with being trainable. Cats are really hard to train but I don't think it's because they're too dumb. Most just don't care.

[Shenanigans]

To me, intelligence of a dog is measured by their ability to adapt to a surrounding and act accordingly, whether they are trained or just learn on their own. So a dog capable of opening doors to get somewhere to me is very intelligent. Or conversely a dog who is capable of excelling at many activities as opposed to just herding or waterwork. All of this still is based on good breeding and training to ensure that the dog is confident enough to adapt to new tasks.

Actually the smartest dogs I have worked with is my GSD who is too smart for his own good. We have a lock on the refrigerator and cabinets because of him. He has also been very versatile in his work and has titles to prove it. I only wish he were able to get titles in sports that only allow certain breeds. For example, I think he would get his title for water rescue dog far faster than my Newfoundland.

But I can also recognise the value of a dog specifically bred to do one thing. If I want a dog to guard my flocks, you better believe I'm getting an LGD bred from a long line of working LGDs or if I want a hunting retriever, I'll go straight to the source.

[izzy]

I think there's a lot of "smart breeds" what about the terriers, like jack russell or fox terriers?, in my house Tabatha is condisered the most inteligent cause she can recognize a lot of words, but every member of my gang show his inteligence on his way. Diesel just had two accidents in the house and now he wake me or my wife in the morning for go out and do his bussiness. Lola is so smart but uses her inteligence just to satisfy her needs and she has been the most hard to train, she loves to ignore me.

But if you talk about training for agility or obedience, a task that all breeds cand do it, yes i have to go for the Border Collie.

[Guest Anonymous]

border collies:An extremely intelligent breed, it is very responsive to training. A dog of this breed is capable of learning almost anything very fast. This herding breed ranks high among the smartest and the most versatile breeds. Some owners claim that these dogs tend to outwit them at times. _In addition to its great intelligence, the breed is very hard working and enthusiastic. These dogs need a job to do, and they are the happiest when they have are busy with herding, the occupation they were initially bred for. The dogs of this breed excel in obedience, agility, and other canine sports.

We are asking which is the smartest. Not what they were bred to do.
Of course a lab cant herd sheep like a border collie. That is not intelligence that is instinct.
Smartest comes from all over. The border collie excels in so many areas besides its natural instinct to herd. I see so many of them on tv, like the JRTs, another smart breed.
I have owned border collies and aussies. I believe aussies are highly intelligent too. Just there is something about border collies, that makes them the most intelligent of all breeds.
Gotta love em!
Like bbcs sig says! Brains and Beauty! :D

[Guest Anonymous]

i am NOT being biased here.. but i think the top 3 would be the BC's Aussie and Goldens..

my aussie was MUCH easier and faster to lear/train then zoey our rottie who still has issues grasping certain things. Cody even being deaf would pick up a sign in 4 times of me showing him it.. he's really smart. and we had a puppy class with a golden and a BC in it. they were supper fast learners as well

[Sarahstaff]

I gotta reemphasize the point that's already been made, that trainability isn't necessarily the same thing as intelligence. BCs are very smart, and are very trainable, so they are often listed as the "smartest breed". But another breed could be equally intelligent, or more intelligent, but less trainable.

I don't know that my Staffybulls are the most intelligent breed, but they are certainly very intelligent. They are not as trainable as a BC, but are very good at adaptive intelligence.

For instance, one place I've exercised Tully has a swinging ranch-style gate. You push in one way, then pull the gate open to leave. There was no learning curve for Tully. Apparently, she saw how it was done, as she ran happily through the gate, then pulled it open with a front paw when she wanted to leave. (she tends to use her front paws as hands, as much as possible without an opposable thumb- thank doG she doesn't have an opposable thumb- I suspect it is because she sees humans do things with their hands, so she does too. Dogs are not supposed to be able to learn by observation, but that has not been my experience.)

The very fact that I'm able to work Elmo at the highest level of obedience and agility, despite his having received no formal training until he was nearly 4 years old, is proof of his intelligence. He missed a lot of early brain formation time, but has been able to compensate because he is quite intelligent. Actually, the fact that he is not quite as smart as Tully makes him easier to train. He can't think of as many different ways to do things. The biggest challenge in working with this breed is that they think. You can't just show them a behavior, and have them repeat it until it's memorized. They will keep offering you variations, trying to come up with the best possible version. And doG help you if you laugh at a variation. They are natural clowns, and will repeat it if they know you found it funny!

So, quite intelligent dogs, but not as trainable as some other breeds. And Staffies are not the only free-thinking breed, just the one I have the most experience with. I don't really think it's possible to directly compare breeds and say "this breed is more intelligent".

[Daisysmom]

Gee I always heard it was the poodle

Me too :roll:
As for the BC's I'm pretty sure Chelsea is at least mixed with that, and she is pretty smart, but I think my labs are smarter

[izzy]

scotty_lvr napisał(a):

The Smartest dogs are the ones that we own. Because they are living the life of luxury, and we spend hours "talking" about them on Dogo and to anyone else that will listen.....No how smart is that?

Amen! :lol:

[mouseatthebusstop]

scotty_lvr wrote:

The Smartest dogs are the ones that we own. Because they are living the life of luxury, and we spend hours "talking" about them on Dogo and to anyone else that will listen.....No how smart is that?

very true

[Guest Anonymous]

scotty_lvr napisał(a):

The Smartest dogs are the ones that we own. Because they are living the life of luxury, and we spend hours "talking" about them on Dogo and to anyone else that will listen.....No how smart is that?

very well said !!

[courtnek]

Neither of the bullies are so independent, but both are much more biddable, and eager to please, which makes teaching them easier (they're also thinkers, but tend to look for more guidance in what they're doing than Annie)

ok time for someone to throw the spanner in the works. I think this quote says it all. "biddable". dogs that are easier to train to do what WE want are often considered the smartest. BC's fall right into that, so do poodles and goldens. they are eager to please. and to some extent, Labs as well, although they are more stubborn than the above. However, if you ask the guide dogs societies, they will paint a different picture. like sled dogs, they want a dog who will DISOBEY in order to do its job. it's called "intelligent disobedience". the leader of your sled team will disobey the musher if he knows there is a crevasse in front of him. your guide dog for the blind will refuse to cross the street when the light changes, no matter how hard his owner orders him to. your hearing guide dog will knock you down rather than let you cross into gunfire. is this "biddability"? not really, to the average dog owner. its direct, deliberate disobedience. Is it intelligence?
absolutely. the dog is being made (trained) to make choices that go directly against the orders of its human. it requires a certain amount of independence and free thinking, something you dont see in truly "biddable" dogs.

[Guest Anonymous]

Wasn't there just a news report released...something like 'dogs may understand language'. We all knew this already. How can we believe what these scientists say are the smartest dogs?

Anyway, a lot of good points have been made in the above posts. I just wanted to recommend a book, if anyone's interested. It's called The Truth About Dogs, by Stephen Budiansky. It "offers an iconoclastic reappraisal of accepted ideas about canine intelligence and emotions. Budiansky draws upon new psychological and neuroscience research to show that the seeming intelligence differences between different dog breeds have much more to do with temperament and training than true differences in brain power."
It's a light, fun read, too.

[Melanie]

Oops, could've sworn I logged in.
That above post is mine.
Sorry. :D

[imported_Debbie]

I think we have to look at individual dogs.....I don't think you can say a whole breed is the smartest...... :wink:
I've seen very smart dogs of all kinds of breeds !! And then I've also seen dogs of the same breeds that are pretty dopey when it comes to the brain dept. :roll: :lol:

I've had in my life-time a Lab, a GSHX, Boston Terrier, and my JRT's and I can say they were/are all damn smart.
But we've also had some Boston's that weren't, and some really air-headed Borzoi's !! :lol: And that's not to say all Borzoi's are dumb...... :)
See what I mean ??? :wink:

[Melanie]

Whenever my Peanut does something stupid, we call her "65". That's her intelligence rank according to whomever made that list of intelligence ranking by breed (google 'dog breed intelligence' and you'll find it). Now Peanut is one smart girl (and I'm sure anyone else with a Saint Bernard will tell you the same thing about their baby)!!! And that's why the whole list is humorous to us... we can't help but tease her with her low ranking.
Jake, on the other hand, never does anything stupid. Could it be because he's #13?!
Hee hee. :roll: :lol:

[Horsefeathers!]

Debbie napisał(a):

I think we have to look at individual dogs.....I don't think you can say a whole breed is the smartest...... :wink:

Ain't that the truth! I have two Standard Poodles, both males and littermates. One (Perry) is extremely easy to train. He's a very receptive dog and all we ever have to do with him is basically show him what it is we want and he almost always gets it the first time. It's like he has this "what can I do for you" aura about him. The Toy Poodle (Peanut) is very similar and easy to teach. I don't have to "command" her or talk baby talk as much as just talk to her... "Peanut, get in the back (seat)..." "Peanut, away from the window, please..." "Peanut, go lie down..." It's like I only have to ask.

The other Standard (Pauly) is dumb as a box of rocks (said with love *mutter*) :oops: . We wonder sometimes if he might have been dropped on his head at birth or something. :-?

We do have three Lhasa Apsos as well and they all seem pretty similar to each other in regard to trainability. They do learn, but tend to be a bit more of independent thinkers. They don't seem to be as motivated to please as much as they are food motivated and even then it's like they have to be in the mood. Love 'em, but not necessarily the brightest bulbs in the box. Same for the Schnauzer who we suspect (on some days) is VERY sharp, but takes joy in being downright defiant ("sit? me? you can just kiss my *ss!"). :oops:

Our Lab (Tucker) seems to be pretty similar to what we perceive stereotypical Labs to be. He is very trainable and eager to please. He will do just about anything we ask of him and catches on to it very quickly.

Our Chihuahua (Chico) is another one who's not necessarily the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm not saying that Chis are stupid as a breed. Just mine is (and I only mean stupid in the nicest possible way *snicker*). We love him to pieces and it's a good thing. I sometimes think his head is hollow.

My Dobe (Rocco) is without a doubt one of the most intelligent dogs I've ever known. He's our first Dobe and the people who had him before us put a lot of time and effort into Rocco with agility, competitive obedience, therapy work and CGC. I really can't account for how easy or difficult he was to train since I wasn't there, but whatever it took, he certainly retained it. I've never had a Dobe before, so never really took into account how they rank in intelligence, but if this boy's any sign, holy balls, what a smart dog!