She won't stop peeing in the house and other problems

[Daisysmom]

Hey everybody,

Chelsea, our rescue from Maryland is really giving us trouble (and we have had her to the vet for this). She is a submissive pee-er and pees in the house for other reasons often. Our vet suggested giving her melatonin for her anxieties, including the submissive peeing. It has given her a little boost of confidence, but has not really helped with the peeing. We were told we could up her dosage, and we have. I now give her 300 mcg's in the morning with breakfast and one in the eveing with her dinner.

The poor dog is afraid of her own shadow (literally)! But, she has an agressive attitude too. (only with the other dogs in the house) When Jake and Daisy play, she gets very upset and dominating. She tries to dominate Daisy, and last night she actually head-butted her and got Daisy in the eye!! Daisy cried :cry: I don't know what to do about her.

I can't even take her for a long walk because she gets so scared -

She is very good by herself, and would be a loving "only" dog, I have seen it. She is very affectionate. But, WHAT DO I DO???? I am starting, very seriously to think she would be better off as an only dog.

We talked to the rescue about what could have possibly happened to her to make her this way (she was only about 4 months old when we got her), but they just thought that I wanted to give her back!! :evil: That was more than a year ago. We have been working with her, and I have come to the conclusion that she maybe interbred.

She is not like any dog we have ever had....

Any ideas?????????

[kendalyn]

That's a tough one. Have you tried daily one on one training sessions with her? (purely positive training of course) I know Buck really came out of his shell after he started learning different commands. It really made him become more confident.

Courtnek had some success with Rescue Remedy also. I'm sure she can tell you more but maybe this would be an option if the medication Daisy is currently on isn't working. Or maybe you could ask your vet if they could be taken at the same time.

It's does sound like Chelsea might do well in a quiet one dog household. Maybe with an older retired couple? If you really think she would be happier, you could just keep your eyes open for one. I'm sure you really care for Chelsea and only want to see her happy.

[imported_Cassie]

For alot of dogs, fear is due to lack of socialization during the critical period of socialization. I have adopted many kennel dogs which were afraid of their own shadows when I adopted them. My oldest female Newf is a perfect example, I adopted her when she was about 2 years old...she was terrified at the dog shows etc. when I adopted her she was a hard case...I was very determined to work her through her problems. I never made a big deal of any thing...and for me the other dogs actually helped her over come some of her fears...the object of fear didn't kill or eat the other dogs, so it must be fine. I never baby talked her, or coddled her. I used obedience training to encourage her to succeed in order to build her confidence, I also found the NIFIL worked wonders for her...having to "earn" every thing helped build her confidence. It took my Newf 2 years to fully come around...and even today there are some things which still put her in a fearful mood (changing things around in my home really freaks her out)
In your case your dogs sounds as if she is fearful and reacts in an offensive manner. Perhaps when out on walks carry treats and encourage her to "look at you" and treat her when going by any thing she may react in an offensive manner. With your other dogs try doing some group obedience, simple things like sit and give treats. If Daisy does get upset and tries to dominant your other dogs...try not to make too big of a deal of it. Give Daisy a time out, she is dealing with the other dogs in the only way she knows how. To get excited and use a high pitched tone of voice can add to the problems...just calmly seperate them and give the time out. I went through this with my newest rescue Beau...he instigates and starts alot of small fights with my other dogs...Beau is not dominante, but, he gets right in there and will straddle the other dogs...for me, I just let them work it out on their own and find their own places. Now, if I were to start getting upset every time my dogs got into a little spat and came running over or got excited, this would esculate the fight and my dogs possibly would damage each other. This is only in my house hold though...there are some people who have to keep their dogs seperate due to fighting.
As for the submissive urinating, there is not much you can do about that. Don't punish the dog, this is actually some thing alot of dogs do when they are around the dominant members of thier house hold. Some dogs will always dribble or give leave thier whole bladder on the floor :lol: :wink:
I can't think of any thing you can do to stop the submissive urinating. Most dogs I know which have been submissive urinaters have been so throughout life...there are only a handful I know of where the owners where able to build up the dogs confidence level enough to get them to stop.
To build confidence you need to set Daisy up for success, success builds confidence removes confusion.

There are a few herbs which are good for dogs which suffer from panic or fear.

Valerian: is some what like a sedative, it works safely and gently to help calm the nerves and achieve physical relaxation. It does not induce an altered state like on would expect . Valerian helps the body relax in the presence of fearful objects (in times of anxiety)
Skullcap: Is commonly used for acute or chronic cases of nervous tension or anxiety.
Oat (flowering tops of Avena sativa) the flowering tops of the oat plant are an excellent nervous system tonic. When fed in moderation to animals with chronic nervousness, oat tends to have a calming effect.
Passionflower: Is a herb used for fear biters and other dogs who take on aggressive behavior during stressful situations. Passion flower is an excellent choice for taking a bit of the nervous edge off jealous types who don't want other dogs around.

Good luck to you, and if you feel she is not doing well in your home...don't feel bad about placing her in a "quiet" home with no other dogs. :wink:

[Daisysmom]

I don't yell at Chelsea when she pees, but when she does hurt Daisy, I do. At other times, if I try to get her to do something she will just pee AGAIN. Tonight she peed in the den, and I don't know why???? Jake was in the room and we were playing fetch, and Daisy was chewing on a bone..... then I turned and saw a puddle on the rug and Chelsea ran and hid behind the sofa. Maybe she is peeing for attention??????????

For alot of dogs, fear is due to lack of socialization during the critical period of socialization

That is exactly what I thought when we first got her. She has come a very long, long way since then. I have even thought that she might be older than what the humane society told us.

If I did place her, it couldn't be with just anybody....... :cry: I would have to know the people or through someone else. I could never bring her to a shelter. I don't know if I could ever give her up......... Sometimes I feel it would be best.

[imported_Cassie]

oops, its Chelsea, not daisy your having the problems with. Sorry :oops:

I don't yell at Chelsea when she pees, but when she does hurt Daisy

The one thing I have learned from having a multie dog house hold for many many years is that getting excited or upset can esculate a fight. Some of the worst dog fights I have seen is when an owner gets upset, alot of dogs assume the owner is backing them up or joining in:wink:

At other times, if I try to get her to do something she will just pee AGAIN.

How are you going about trying to get her to do things? are you making it fun and uppity? or are you "telling" her to do some thing? for dogs which lack confidence its a good idea to make every thing uppity and happy...with my Newf if I tried to tell her to do some thing like "sit" in a normal tone of voice...she gets upset and anxious. I have to keep my voice positive and happy at all times around her. I am very proud to say that with this back wards Newf I was able to get her CD obedience title on her...and this was just by using a positive happy attitude around her. I have never been able to treat her like a "normal" dog...she is very sensitive and intune to my moods and tone of voice...even my body language. I never stand over her, when I ask her to do some thing I never look her in the eyes, I have encouraged her with treats to look at me in the face during obedience and she has been wonderfully rewarded for it. I never make a move towards her, I always have her come to me...I really have to be non assertive towards her...if I did treat her as I treat my other dogs she would be back to square one again and scared to death.

Tonight she peed in the den, and I don't know why???? Jake was in the room and we were playing fetch, and Daisy was chewing on a bone..... then I turned and saw a puddle on the rug and Chelsea ran and hid behind the sofa. Maybe she is peeing for attention??????????

It could be that she is trying to get your attention...even negetive attention is attention. If this were some thing I were going through I would probably try to act very calm when she makes a mistake...ignore her while you clean up. Then take her outside and walk her around for a little while. In the future when ever I caught her going pee out side or in the places I want her to go I would be sure to praise her for this. Give her attention and praise when she does what you want and pees where you want her to pee and ignore her when she does wrong. I would stay away from punishing her when she makes her mistakes in the house. I would be consistant with her and happy with her...dogs will repeat actions which bring them rewards or pleasure. Set her up for success by having her do some thing she knows how to do and make a big deal of how wonderful she is when she does it. Make her happy to make you happy.

I would have to know the people or through someone else. I could never bring her to a shelter. I don't know if I could ever give her up......... Sometimes I feel it would be best.

I certainly would not send her back to the shelter, this could set her back even more. If you do decide to keep her then join an obedience class with an instructor who understands challenged dogs...work on her confidence...you are not going to see any changes over night. When a dog has not been properly socialized before the age of 16 weeks...it can take alot to undo the damage which is already there. A pup before the age of 16 weeks has a social window which can be filled with alot of new things..these pups have no fear and when introduced to new things in a positive manner will have a wonderful start on life. When they miss out on this social period, they do not have the social window open any longer and new things can seem frightening...for survival basis an animal will react to unknown things with fight or flight...its called survival and this is perfectly natural. The key is when dealing with a dog in this state is to make every thing positive and not to get upset when your dog shows fear...they are depending on you to gain their confidence. Try to deal with all new things with a grain of salt, don't force your dog to meet new things or deal with new animals...but, then again don't coddle the dog either..by coddling our dogs when fearful or offensive we are reinforcing the dogs idea that this object of fear is some thing to be concerned about.
As for a new home, it would be nice if you could find an older couple with a quiet life style. It would also be nice if you could keep her and get some help to get her over this fear of hers. It took me 2 years to get my Newf half way normal in public...it doesnt happen over night.

[Daisysmom]

Cassie, thank you very much for the great advice. I do some of your suggestions already, but will make a point of trying the rest.

The one thing I have learned from having a multie dog house hold for many many years is that getting excited or upset can esculate a fight. Some of the worst dog fights I have seen is when an owner gets upset, alot of dogs assume the owner is backing them up or joining in

This isn't a problem thank goodness! She just runs and hides behind the table, and knows what she did was wrong.

I will be more positve with her in the sweet voice, it does seem to work with her, but it is hard to remember all the time when I'm over tired, frustrated and stressed :roll:

Thanks for the help, I really do appreicate it :angel:

I will check back on this........ of course, I am running again
Thanks!