Predatory drive

[imported_Cassie]

I just wanted to share this article, it seems when ever there is a dog attack the owners are blamed for either abusing their dog, spoiling their dog, etc. Some attacks can be blamed on a dogs predatory drive, this cannot be considered an act of aggression as it is a hard wired behavior in most breeds. I some times think this is not well understood by alot of dog owners though.
I know alot of Rotties & a few APBT's (alot of terriers have a very high prey drive) with a very high prey drive, the dogs are lovely dogs and great with people etc. But, once they are aroused they will go into prey mode and they could be dangerous in some situations. I think it would be beneficial for dog owners to know a little about this hard wired motor pattern...and yes, a child can be mistaken as prey by some dogs. This article is not as indepth as I would have liked...but, its a start. :wink:
It is also some thing to be careful of when allowing large dogs play with small dogs about 50% smaller than themselves...during play there have been cases of the large dog turning the game into a hunt, the little dog which was the dogs friend suddenly becomes the prey.

http://www.petplace.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=1820

[Guest Anonymous]

Great article...

I'm wondering why we dont' see many border collies attacking, although that could be because they have had the "kill bite" taken out of them... but my last BC+Aussie was aggressive, although from different things rather then predatory. But I've been bitten by Border Collies who think their "nipping" but it really does bite, it takes training to control this... what if someone doesn't control this, which I feel some owners probably don't, and the dog gets look and stalks someone? You'd think you'd hear about more border collie attacks then you do... However it probably is being the kill bite being bred out...

[Guest Anonymous]

great article. Thanks for posting it!

[imported_Cassie]

HazelNutMeg, great point. With a sheep herding dog they have had the "kill bite" bred out of them. You don't want a dog herding sheep and biting them. Sheep Herding dogs hard wired behaviors are eye stalking and chasing...if you were competing in a herding competition with your border collie they would take points off a dog which bites the sheep...its not a proper behavior comformation for a border collie to go past chase (although they may nip).
But, with an Aussie, they were used for droving cattle, they had to have a little "kill bite" in them to keep the cattle moving...same with Rotties. Terriers used their full series of predatory drives to chase and kill varmin.
With hunting dogs such as retrievers, pointers they do not have the full series of predatory behavior. You wouldn't want your retriever going into predatory drift while out hunting, neither would you want your pointer going into this mode. They breed alot of dogs such as hunting dogs and sheep herding dogs to have a soft mouth...although sheep herding dogs may nip, they really havent been bred to bite the sheep as other breeds which are cattle drovers have been.
One thing I want to stipulate, ALL dogs can bite...you can't breed that out of them...but, not all dogs will go from a bite to kill bite (which can lead to mauling - depending on the level of predatory drive the dog has)...all dogs can bite in different circumstances, its there way of controlling a situation in alot of situations. It's the fact that many breeds where bred to not go past a certain stage of predatory drive while performing their jobs.

It's neat how they can breed certain characteristics into certain breeds. It all has to do with rearranging and deselecting different patterns of the predatory drive and developing hard wired behaviors. You see a behavior you like, you keep breeding for it, soon you have a hard wired behavior. With mongrels (purebred mongrels) which have never been selectively bred by man...they have the full series of predatory drives, but, none of them are hard wired or over emphasized.

With myself, I have a Rottie which has a very high prey drive...she is easily aroused in many circumstances with fast moving objects...she will go into predatory drift. I didn't understand what this was until I got my Rottie...never had I owned a dog with this high of a prey drive and I have owned border collies, husky's, GSD's, Great Pyrenees, Great dane, Newf's (many many Newf's), dalmations, Dobie's...I could go on :lol: It took alot of understanding on my part and an open mind to understand my Rottie and to realize that some of the behaviors she displayed where not aggression but, predatory drives. When I first took her in she actually stalked and attacked me...so, I have been on the receiving end of a dog with a high prey drive...and it happens so suddenly and unexpectadly. I was in a feild, let her off lead, she played for awhile and I threw her some sticks...she ran to the other end of the feild, I kept walking and then I started jogging a little...Athena stopped, put her head down slightly and was stalking me! she walked slowly towards me in this stance...and then broke out into a run and attacked me by grabbing my upper arm etc. If I wasn't as strong as I am this could have turned into a mauling attack...I grabbed her by the neck and threw her to the ground and held her there until she came out of it..once out of it she was her same sweet self and continued playing. It was a long hard bumpy road learning to deal with this and attending seminars on it...its not an aggressive act on the part of the dog, its a hard wired behavior...by the way, I almost gave Athena to a Rottie rescue at that point when she displayed this behavior because I didn't understand it, at that time I though...how could a dog which is so sweet and loving one moment turn on me???? after doing research I found she didn't "turn" on me...I started jogging which put her into predatory drift.
Any way, it is completely normal, my little girl has never done this to me or others ever again(although she will stalk and attack my Newf's and Beau when playing, my Newf's are big brutes and usually put her in her place pretty quickly :wink: )...but, there is always the chance that some thing may arouse this predatory drift...I am very careful with her. A friend of mine has a Rottie which is very very submissive and sweet, this Rottie has gone into predatory drift around small dogs...and once a very young child who was running around the arena put him into predatory drift...if you don't know what to watch for it could lead to a very dreadful ending. And its difficult also when you have a dog with a high prey drive which LOVES your cats and sleeps with them when in the house...but, outside the house the same cats are prey...its an eye opener :o
Its not an act of aggression, its a hard wired behavior.
Understanding and a willing to learn about dog behavior can and will make a safe community and perhaps put an end to this silly notion of banning breeds.

Any way, sorry to be so long winded...oh, what am I talking about....I'm always long winded.

[courtnek]

nice article, and very well written on your post Ambrose. I have two hunting dogs. And you're right, the "kill bite" was deliberately bred out of them because they would destroy the animal you had them scenting. Soft mouth is considered a necessity in a hunting dog. My Goldens mouth was so gentle that he could pick up another animal (a kitten, a downed bird in the yard) without even ruffling the fur or feathers. They were wet where he picked them up, that's all. My Lab mix is another story. Not sure all of what's in her, visually she looks like a Lab/German Shorthair Pointer mix, but her tail is fluffy, so there may be some shepherd or what not there too.
Soft mouth is completely alien to her. She will point, stalk, and then go into full chase mode. If she catches it, it's dead. There is NO hesitation to her kill bite when she has chased something down. She doesnt act that way around people though. If she doesnt like them, she stands them off. Or ignores them. She can chase me or other people around the yard and its great fun. The Foxhounds never killed their prey. They cornered it and waited for the hunter to kill it. So bite inhibition totally. She'll chase something, but if it escapes she's like "oh well...better luck next time....."

:lol:

[Shenanigans]

That was an interesting article. I like seeing the differences in breeds. I grew up with Shelties and Border Collies. Most of them loved to chase anything that moved, I once had a Border Collie that caught a squirril, but then didn't know what to do with it, other than stand on it. The Shelties try as they might couldn't catch the squirrils, not quite as agile as those Border Collies.

Then I got my GSD, who lets chippies run over him when he's sleeping, squirrils, deer, horses, chippies, foxes, birds...he couldn't care a less. However put a stray cat in front of him, and suddenly there is a prey drive, and though it's never been tested, I'm sure he'd go for a kill. He did go after one of my late cats when I wasn't home, he left a lot of superficial wounds-which was confusing to me in a way, he could have easily killed her, but something restrained him. I guess to an extent he had that inhibition expected of herding dogs, but he is a GSD too, which I think is a strange exception to some extent since shortly after they were developed for herding, they quickly had to find other jobs as modernisation came in and shepherding went out.

My Newfoundland has about a prey drive for about ten feet, and unless it's a runaway piece of fruit, he doesn't think there's much of a point. He will prey shake his stuffies, but so far that is the extent of his prey drive that we've seen. However, the only time I've seen him frantically excited about an activity is when he was doing some water retrieves last year when he finally got the hang of swimming. Some of his siblings have killed snakes that like to hang around their runs much to my breeder's chagrin, of course being the wonderful people we are, my husband and I never hesitate to bring up the topic. ;)