More food questions-- allergies

[gooeydog]

Goo's got another ear infection (second one in a few months, she used to get them frequently, but not since I switched her to her current food), and I noticed her licking her feet the other day (only time I've noticed, and I see no spots like she used to get, but it's something she used to do when her allergies bothered her, so its got me suspicious), so I'm thinking her allergies may be resurfacing. She has had reactions from contact allergies before as well (some types of grass or plants- especially when its wet out-cause her to get all red and itchy, as well as some other things), and several people have told me that this is a bad time for allergies, so that coupled with us spending a good bit of time outside recently has me wondering whether its that or a food allergy.

Anyway, this has provoked me to switch her canned food from Nutro (lamb and rice, but has other meats in it) to Natural Balance, which is what her dry is. Now, for some more questions (try as I might, I have a hard time grasping this food stuff, hence my neverending stream of questions :roll: )

For easy comparison, here are the ingredients to the Nutro canned food I am currently giving ( http://www.nutroproducts.com/nccanlrrec.asp ):
Lamb Broth, Lamb, Chicken, Beef Liver, Chicken Liver, Rice Bran, Beef, Ground Rice, Dried Egg Product, Rice Gluten, Natural Flavors, Guar Gum, Sunflower Oil, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Carrageenan, Sodium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement.

And the Natural Balance dry food ( http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/products/UltDog.html ):
Chicken, Brown Rice, Duck, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols-a source of Vitamin E, Citric Acid, and Rosemary Extract), Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Carrots, Potassium Chloride, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Dried Kelp, Salt, Parsley Flakes,.....cut out a bunch of vitamins to save length

Now my question.... the canned NB foods do use single protein sources (duck, chicken, lamb, etc), but should I even switch the dry food to a single protein food as well, in case it's the chicken in it that's causing the problem? And another one, I've read in a couple places now that potatoes are NOT good for dogs prone to yeast problems (Goo's ear infections are the yeast type), so is it really common for them to cause problems, or only in some cases? Goo was on both types of NB for a while with no problems, and gets mashed/baked potatoes on occasion (not huge amounts, but I'll sometimes set aside a few spoonfuls without salt, etc for her), seems like there is no correlation to her ear problems, so is it a fairly safe bet that she won't have problems, or? I also see that the protein/fat contents are lower than the other varieties (5% pro, 4% fat-canned; 21% pro, 10% fat- dry), is it a big difference, or only minor (keep in mind that my dog is older and naturally stays pretty lean)?

And one more question... I see that NB has a venison formula out now, is venison to be considered sort of a last resort for dogs with extensive allergies, or is it more mainstream now?

In case anyone wonders why only NB foods, I dont drive, so I'm limited to places I can get someone to drive me to get food, and petco/petsmart are the only stores close enough, and NB is among the best foods between those two.

[TDG]

as far as i am informed, potatoes are a pretty hypoallergenic source of carbs, and i haven't heard anything about them causing or aggravating yeast infections.

if i were you, i'd try an elimination diet and see if the chicken is the culprit.

are you supplementing with fish oil and probiotics? both tend to help a lot with allergy problems.

as far as the canned food goes, have you ever considered leaving that out entirely and instead feeding a fresh meat supplement with the kibble? that way you are eliminating a lot of "unknowns" from the diet, your dog gets the benefits of fresh food and it's not very expensive either. a pound of ground beef, pork or turkey generally costs about the same or less than a can of dog food, which isn't even pure meat.

i can give you a recipe if you like.

[TDG]

this is from dr. pitcairn's "complete guide to natural health for dogs and cats":

fresh meat supplement:

- 4 teaspoons vegetable oil (wheat germ oil is good, lots of vitamin E)
- 4 teaspoons "healthy powder" (recipe below)
- 1,100-1,200 mg calcium (1 3/4 teaspoons bonemeal or 2/3 teaspoon egg shell powder or an appropriate amount of another calcium supplement like calcium citrate - this is important, do not leave it out!)
- 50-200 IU vitamin E (you can use the lesser amount if using wheat germ oil, but this is an excellent antioxidant, so a bit extra is always good)
- 5,000-10,000 IU vitamin A
- 1 pound chopped or ground raw turkey or chicken or lean hamburger or lean chuck or lean beef heart

mix oil, powder, calcium source and vitamins well, then stir in the meat until everything is well mixed. yields about 2 cups. give 1/4 cup of this supplement per cup of kibble fed. you can also prepare larger batches and freeze it in appropriate portions.

you can also use cottage cheese or egg to make this kind of kibble supplement and rotate between them. if you do this, you can omit the vitamin A from the meat and cottage cheese recipes.

for the cottage cheese one, use 2 teaspoons vegetable oil, 2 teaspoons healthy powder, 300 mg calcium (or 1/2 teaspoon bonemeal or 1/8 teaspoon egg shell powder), 2/4 cup creamed cottage cheese and (optional) 1/4-1/2 cup minced or pulped veggies. this is enough to supplement 2-3 cups of kibble.

for the egg one, use 1 teaspoon vegetable oil, 1 teaspoon healthy powder, 200 mg calcium (1/3 teaspoon bonemeal or 1/8 teaspoon egg shell powder), 2 eggs this is enough to supplement 1-2 cups of kibble.


healthy powder:
- 2 cups nutritional yeast (this is not the same as brewer's yeast and much more nutritious)
- 1 cup lecithin granules
- 1/4 cup kelp powder
- 9,000 mg calcium (1/4 cup bone meal or 5 teaspoons egg shell powder)
- 1,000 mg vitamin C (personally i leave this out and give 500 mg vitamin C daily separately)

mix everything in a tightly sealable container and refrigerate. shake well each time before using. use in recipes as instructed or feed 1-2 teaspoons/ day to cats and small dogs, 2-3 teaspoons to medium dogs and 1-2 tablespoons to large dogs. this supplement powder is balanced in itself and can be added to any food or recipe in reasonable amounts.

* yeast substitution: if you omit the nutritional yeast, reduce the calcium to 3,200 mg or 5 teaspoons bonemeal or 1 3/4 teaspoon egg shell powder and only use half of the amount specified for recipes and daily feeding. since this way a lot of nutrients are left out, feed a complete multivitamin/mineral supplement daily and do not use any additional vitamin A, C or E.

* kelp substitution: if you omit the kelp, add 3/4 teaspoon of iodized salt and 1/4 cup of alfalfa powder or montmorillonite (this is a natural trace mineral powder) you may also omit the kelp if you are giving a daily multivitamin/mineral supplement already.

i highly recommend the book to everyone, besides food recipes it has a lot of information on treating all kinds of problems with homeopathic methods, natural grooming tips etc.

maybe one of the homeopathic schedules would help your dog with allergies and ear problems.

[gooeydog]

I just realized too that Goo's still been sneaking food from the other dogs' bowls, and they're eating W/D now, which I know has lots of "no no"s in it for an allergy prone dog (aside from being an icky food to begin with, but my mom wants to use it for them because they need to lose weight and it's a "diet" formula... I'll stop now before the whole post is derailed :roll: ). I've been trying my best to keep her out of it, but if thats the closest bowl when she gets hungry, thats where she heads, so I have to try and head her off. I'm going to have to step up my prevention tactics and try to keep her out it it alltogether (can't just put the food up, as the others are freefed dry food, and there's nothing that would keep Goo out while letting Haley to hers).

I am giving human grade salmon oil a few nights a week, and sometimes flax seed oil instead. Probiotics... yogurt (the "real" stuff) or cottage cheese is something that will help with that? Or am I getting that mixed up with something else? I want to get her on a digestive supplement, but funds are short right now, so it may be a bit before I can do that.

I have thought about using real meat to supplement rather than the canned food, but feel that I still don't know enough to be sure that I'm doing things right, so that makes me a bit hesitant. The recipe you gave does sound easy, so maybe I'll try a batch within the next few weeks and see what she thinks about it. Where can I find the things in the recipe (some of them I know, but a few I've never seen before, lecithin, nutritional yeast)?

[TDG]

gooeydog, try increasing the salmon oil from what is a "maintenance level" to a threapeutic level. i'd suggest 1000 mg of fish oil per 15-20 lbs of body weight daily.

probiotics (beneficial bacteria) often have a beneficial effect on problem ears. you'd have to feed 1-2 tablespoons of a quality cultured yogurt (needs to have the proper cultures, not just starter cultures, see here. read the ingredient panel on the yogurt container to see if it has more than the two starter cultures, which do have benefits but do not survive the acid environment in the stomach, so they do not colonize the intestine. with severe allergy problems i'd even start out with a high dose probiotic supplement rather than just relying on the yogurt. the yogurt is good for maintenance tho.

a good yogurt brand i have found available at most stores is stonyfield farm. you can feed the regular, lowfat or nonfat, depending on what is best for your dog. the cottage cheese in the "fresh supplement" recipe from dr. pitcairn's book doesn't generally have probiotic cultures, but it is a good source of protein. so in order to not confuse you even more: you would be feeding yogurt and cottage cheese for different purposes: the yogurt to help with the ears and to stimulate the immune system and the cottage cheese as a supplement of fresh animal protein to a kibble diet.

the lecithin, kelp and nutritional yeast etc. you can buy at health food stores, general nutrition stores and sometimes they can be found at the vitamin/sports nutrition aisles of department stores and drug stores. personally i order them online which is usually 30% to 50% cheaper than at a walk-in store, even if you include the shipping. my last order was $19 including shipping for
- 10 oz nutritional yeast flakes (NOW brand) $ 5.99
- 8 oz norwegian kelp powder (NOW brand) $ 2.99
- 1 lb lecithin granules (NOW brand) 4.49

the pitcairn recipes are definitely easy to make and use, and you don't have to feel insecure about doing something wrong. he's a veterinarian with a lot of knowledge in the nutrition department as well as other things. :)