A pretty yucky question for small dog owners...

[Aroura]

For the first time the other night Montie got impacted anal glands. I've read about them before, but never actually seen a case! Well I was just rubbing him all over like I do at least every week to check for lumps etc and he had a swollen bum :drinking:

I did what I've read that your supposed to do and squezed all the gunk out. There was still some in there the next morning which I squeezed out (I'm very proud of my baby for behaving so well!). It was still swollen so I thought maybe it was just because it was irrited - by last night it had gone down. I gave him a spoon of brand and a fair bit of olive oil in his breakfast this morning in hopes to clear out any remaining gunk :lol:

One worry though, I've heard that the gunk is supposed to be a kind of cleary or browny colour - his was almost black. Should I be conserned? Should I take my baby to the vet or will he be fine?

[Guest Anonymous]

sorry i can't be of help but i hope that montie is feeling normal again soon!!

[imported_Kat]

Aha the fun of anal glands! All sizes of dogs should have their anal glands squeezed every now and again to prevent impaction. The reason why anal glands are there is to lubricate and assist the passage of faeces. In teh wild dogs are obviously eating much larger food items and passing huge bowel movements. Our pet dogs have smaller faeces due to their commercial diets and therefore the little anal glands aren't used as much.

Now the colour of anal fluid is variable between dogs and believe you me from working at the vets I have seen all shades of the rainbow! :lol:

Ok the art to squeezing anal glands is as follows. Get someone to hold the dogs head. Other person (braver one) should elevate the tail to protrude the glands, then using a tissue press at the positions of 2 and 10 o'clock and milk the glands. Don't squeeze as per se, but gently milk the glands, until you get a good spurt of fluid coming out. Its a stinky job but its got to be done! :wink:

[Horsefeathers!]

Kat napisał(a):

All sizes of dogs should have their anal glands squeezed every now and again to prevent impaction.

I respectfully disagree unless I'm misunderstanding. Do you mean ALL dogs of all sizes, or just that generally any size dog can have problems? The reason I ask is that none of my dogs have ever, ever had to have their anals done. I feel around back there all the time when I'm bathing (my own), but have never had one yet that required my attention. It seems to me that dogs that start off having their anals done when they don't really need it (note: I realize some do... just pointing out that it's done often when it doesn't need to be) end up needing help with it their entire lives.

I thought raw feeding and BARF was supposed to discourage anal gland problems. I know it sounds like I'm being sarcastic, but I swear I'm not.

[kendalyn]

Buck and I have an understanding: I don't mess with his anal glands, if he doesn't mess with mine! :lol:

J/K... he's never had a problem with them so I leave them alone.

[imported_Kat]

hi HF no offense taken but yes all dogs of all sizes have anal glands therefore although it may not be obvious externally, the internal glands will still fill up and should still be squeezed now and again. Its just like accumulating ear wax. A little is functional but a lot presents problems, which is why anal squeezing should be done as routine with grooming/bathing.

[drjeffrock]

Ah yes! The topic of anal glands. :lol:
The color can differ from a creamy white paste, to a filthy brownish/black liquid. I think that anal gland juice should be used as chemical warfare, I cant think of anything more putrid smelling. :boom:
Dex constantly has anal gland problems, I have to empty his sacs out every couple weeks, otherwise he lets it go on the couch, floor, Christine's sweatpants, etc.
I have found it to be much, much easier when you do it from the inside (meaning you stick your finger in the bum.) I have considered the surgery to remove them, however I dont think it would be wise of me to risk incontinence unless his health is in jeopardy.
Any of you guys have any recommendations of cleaning products to help remove the juices?

[imported_Cassie]

Actually HF, I completely agree with you on this topic of Anal Glands. I feel people are squeezing the heck out of things which shouldn't be played with. I have NEVER in my 40 some years EVER had a dog small or large EVER have a problem with its glands. My dogs have all had sensible diets and have never ate just a kibble diet their whole life. I have always substituted with home made meals, raw bones to chew etc.
For anal glands the problems should be dealt with through diet FIRST before attempting to start squeezing. If the dogs glands are impacted then take the dog to a vet and have them expressed from the inside...not squeezed from the out side. When you start squeezing from the outside you build up scar tissue...some thing like squeezing the heck out of a zit all the time :lol:
At the grooming shop I work at the groomer who has been grooming for over 25 years will NOT squeeze a dogs glands.. some groomers actually squeeze every dog which comes in the door...we had a few of these dogs come into our shop for grooming after the owners had complained. If the owner mentions they would like the dogs glands squeezed my boss will give them a slight/light squeeze...but, she will not play around with them too much...it has been her experience that dogs which start having their glands squeezed will require it throughout life. She will usually help the owner out by advising them to feed a better diet, perhaps adding ground flax seed, wheat germ, oats etc. to the food and perhaps feeding some meals as a home prepared meal with puried veggies (carrots, sweet pototoes etc have lots of fiber) she has been able to help alot of small dog owners avoid the gland problem. She also will advise them to see their vet and have the glands expressed, not squeezed.
There are alot of Vets who do believe the glands should be squeezed...the vet clinic I work at highly recommends this...what happens is the dog then REQUIRES the assistance and is in the vet clinic once a week having its glands done.
So I would look at your dogs diet first and perhaps place your dog on a high fiber diet. The fiber makes the animal's stool more bulky. The stool will put more pressure on the anal glands and hopefully the glands will express themselves when the animal defecates. There are several commercial brands of high fiber dog food available. Animals may also be supplemented with bran or medications such as Metamucil, which will increase the bulk of the stool.
This is a touchy subject for alot of people...being in the dog business for over 20 years we have learned diet plays an important role in helping the dog express its glands naturally. We have seen first hand dogs which get their glands squeezed every groom and goes through heck for the rest of its life...I certainly would not want to make my dog dependant on me to help it do some thing which should be natural. :wink:

[drjeffrock]

Good point Cassie, quite often a change in diet can help solve the problem. Unfortunately thats not the case for poor Dex :cry:

[imported_Cassie]

drjeffrock, sorry just saw your post. There are of course dogs which are predisposed to anal gland problems due to genetic build of the dog. I think you are doing the right thing by squeezing from the inside and not the outside :wink:
You can probably get a good enzyme product from your local vets which should eliminate the odor of anal glands. We used a product at the vet clinic which we used quite often (many dogs will blow their glands when scared...we had a few scared dogs at the vet clinic :lol: ) I just can't think of the name of the product just now.
My only problem with the anal gland issue are groomers or vets who are too quick to start squeezing and proding instead of trying to help the dog from the inside first. I have seen too many groomers in our area create anal gland problems in dogs due to over squeezing, etc.
Have you tried contacting a holistic vet to help you with this problem??? I find some times they can recommend deitary changes and supplements which will help out with anal gland problems.

[drjeffrock]

Cassie napisał(a):

Have you tried contacting a holistic vet to help you with this problem??? I find some times they can recommend deitary changes and supplements which will help out with anal gland problems.

YOu know, I have been looking for a holistic vet for sometime, with no luck yet :cry: Hehehe, TDG prepare yourself for a PM from me :wink:
My poor vet. THe first time I saw that Dex was having problems (scooting around, etc.) I took him to the vet to show me how to empty them from the inside. One thing leads to another and SQUIRT! All over his shirt :oops:
It is quite the scene if anyone were to witness Christine and I emptying his sacs. I hop in the bathtub with Dex and hold him by his neck/collar. I convinced Christine to do the actual insertion. After all, Dex is sooooo strong and she needs me to hold him for dear life :wink: Hehe, I dunno how I weasled her into doing it.
I am holding him and asking her "Did you get it? Did you get one side? Did you get both sides?" She started yelling at me "SHUT UP!! YOu will know when they are done." LOL, she was right. THe first time she did it, she got one side done, and she couldnt take it. She ran out of the bathroom leaving me and Dex in the tub as the smell was just sitting there (as our bathroom and shower are enclosed in glass doors.) I was hollering "Baby be strong. Come back!" It was really funny. Now, we are much more proficient at getting it done.

[Guest Anonymous]

thanksfully i've never had to do this to my dogs, i wouldn't do it anyways, i woudl bring them to the vet to have that done. but we've had no problems with it. then again Kat said big poop helps with it.. lol well not to gross you all out but gesh you'd think i have 2 huge saints or great danes in my back yard.. and not a puny little 46 pound aussie and a61 pound rottie.. lol

[imported_Cassie]

The reason why anal glands are there is to lubricate and assist the passage of faeces.

Kat, Dogs use their anal gland secretion primarily for territorial marking or as a form of communication. In dogs and cats, every time a stool is passed, it should put enough pressure on the anal glands that some of the secretion is deposited on the surface of the stool. Other dogs and cats are then able to tell who has been in the neighborhood, just by sniffing the stools they find. Additionally, dogs and cats recognize each other by smelling each other in the general area of the anus, since each animal's anal glands produce a unique scent.
I have never heard of anal gland secretion referred to as a lubrication to assist with a bowel movement :o that really is news to me. I have watched my dogs, each time they have a bowel movement...AFTER they are finished they then leave the anal gland secretion on top of the poop...that in no way is assisting or lubricating the passage of the feces.

hi HF no offense taken but yes all dogs of all sizes have anal glands therefore although it may not be obvious externally, the internal glands will still fill up and should still be squeezed now and again. Its just like accumulating ear wax. A little is functional but a lot presents problems, which is why anal squeezing should be done as routine with grooming/bathing.

Sorry kat, I really have to disagree with this. A normal dog with no predisposed problems will and should empty thier anal glands with a bowel movement. I have seen too many problems caused by people with the same views as your own...they create an anal gland problem which probably could have been solved with a change in diet. It is normal for a dog to leave their anal gland secretion on top of their poop as a form of communication...its a natural process.
"If it isnt broke, don't fix it"...words of wisdom from a mechanic friend of mine...this also applies to anal glands :lol: :wink:
The dogs I have seen which have problems with their glands are the ones which people are constantly squeezing etc.
I have never squeezed any of my dogs glands...and over the years I have owned about 40 dogs...none of my friends have ever squeezed thier dogs glands and most of them are breeders who have owned hundreds of dogs. We stopped doing glands at the grooming shop I work at about 15 years ago when we realized what problems the squeezing was creating for these dogs. We are proud to say that only about 5% of our clients have an anal gland problem...and of this percentage it is usually the genetic build of the dog (cocker spaniels, springers) and they have been able to work through thier problem with a different diet. The other groomers are doing glands with every dog which comes in for a groom and the owners find the dog NEED to be done once its started...very sad.
If some one ever touched my dogs glands without asking my permission first I would take a fit :evil:

[drjeffrock]

Ha, I even have a name for it, the process of "de-shmeckling." I just made up the word as I thought it sounded kinda right. He is such a dirty boy, he never cleans himself :evil: . The only time he ever licks his bum is after he shmeckels. :oops: Sorry if I am grossing anyone out.

[Aroura]

De shmecking, I'll have to remember that one! It sounds so much better than "sqeezing his anal glands" :lol:

2 and 10 O'Clock - got ya! I was doing more like a 3 and 9 O'Clock :oops:

Horsefeathers, I've never heard that one before, but you know, you're probably right :wink: Most little dogs I have heard of will need "de shmecking" every couple of months at least, I've had Montie 8 months now and this is the first time he's needed it - right after he's been eating dog food! We had an RSPCA puppy, who's food he would eat when he could, just a week ago. For a 1.6kg dog he's doing pretty well though 8)

As for doing it internally, I don't... oh gosh, how can I put this gracefully? Well I don't think I could fit my finger in there :o Even his poops are tiny! :oops:

Cassie, about diet changing - well those are things I was planning to change in the next batch of food! I was going to add some bran to the mix. I also bought some wheat germ yesterday that I added to the kelp/wheat grass mix this morning. Flaxseed oil is already on my shopping list for next time I get paid. Coinsidence? Or do I somehow instinctly know what my dog needs? :lol: Oh, and I was going to buy him digestive enzymes too :wink:

Drjeff, that story cracked me up - I couldn't help but laugh out loud! When I first noticed Montie the other night I didn't want anyone knowing because I didn't want my baby to get embarressed and laughed at, so I took him into a quiet room. Well of course my house mate followed me in and talked to me, so I just sat there stroking Montie for a while before disapearing into another room. So I had him, really well behaved (he's such a good boy now, he'll let me do anything to him) on his back and I was squeezing away when my housemate came in and looked suprised and said "what are you doing!!!" so I explained and she ran out of the room disgusted. Then Josh walked in, I was hoping this wouldn't happen because he is always paying out on Montie as it is, so I explained and he laughed and got grossed out and told me I was sleeping on the floor!!! :o :lol:

Poor Montie, he doesn't need this extra stress in his life! :lol:

[imported_Cassie]

Aroura, I have never fed an all kibble diet...actually when I was young we and others never fed our dogs "dog kibble"...that was for rich folks :wink: our dogs always got healthy table scraps and were much healthier than most of our dogs today....
With my dogs I will feed them home prepared meals in addition to their kibble, variety is the spice of life :wink: ...steamed meats, sardines, wild salmon, steamed/puried veggies such as carrots, sweet potatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, romaine lettuce...etc. etc.) I also add ground flax seeds & pumpkin seeds to their meals, oats, oat tops, I also grow my dogs their own grass...not the the illegal stuff:lol: :wink: I grow them some wheat grass and barley grass and leave it out for them to nibble on...my dogs will also eat grass in my yard, since I don't use pesticides or any other products on my grass I have deemed this safe :wink: I would never let them eat grass I think may have been treated. Canines have been eating grass since time began..its normal and is wonderful for the purpose of digestive cleansing. You can also buy a commercial formula like Granular Greens or Green alternatives to help add fiber and greens to your dogs diet. Make sure all the products you use are organic...although I have begun to question the truth behind this labelling lately :(
There are also a few kibbles with added fiber you can feed your dog until he is back on track.
If you do decide to squeeze your dogs butt...dont' go squeezing them to death...just use a light squeeze...you don't want to cause more problems than you already have. Try to solve the problem through diet.

[Horsefeathers!]

Actually, the way Cassie summed up the whole thing is pretty much my opinion. I can only nod from the amen corner. I very, very seldom ever touch anals on a client's dog and then it's only on request and only very lightly and NEVER internally. That's vet territory and I don't care how easy it is, I ain't goin' there. It seems to be the ones who request it done each time that NEED it to be done. I've owned Toy breeds for years along with my big dogs and NONE of them have ever needed to have their anals done. My Chihuahua is 7 years old and I've never touched them, nor my 5 year old Toy Poodle's and unless I have a reason to, I won't. There is no smell, no scooting, no problem. To throw in another variable, my dogs are indeed kibble fed with the addition of some home cooked foods. Even more, we used to feed stuff like Ol' Roy and Dog Chow before we knew any better and even then never had problems with anal glands, probably because we didn't bother them(?)

I strongly yet respectfully disagree that it should be a part of the regular grooming routine for ALL dogs. My ever so humble opinion is that anal glands are on the inside of a dog and that's vet territory as much as some of them like to pass it back off to groomers. I only work on the outside of the dog (yes, I include ears as part of the outside... I don't dig where I can't see). My vet shares my opinion and never recommends expressing anal glands as part of regular routine grooming. I've seen that the vet community as well as the grooming community is very divided on this. A groomer that lives near me once actually got up in the middle of a seminar on anal glands (of all things) and made a big stink (no pun intended) because she disagreed with the speaker so vehemently. This particular groomer is one who believes that any dog whose glands aren't expressed every time it's groomed will suffer impaction. The speaker was saying pretty much the same thing Cassie and I believe.

[Aroura]

Its hard with the little ones to add too much veggies etc because they just wont eat it - though I always do push to see how much I can put in before they stop eating it! Cassie is not as fussy as Montie so she isn't as hard to feed, but Montie will just not eat if he doesn't like what he's fed - not to say he's particulary fussy, but he does definatly have his preferences! I'm buying some spirulina and alfalfa to add to their diets also, which could help. How do you do the pumpkin seeds? How benificial is the ground flax seed? I was actually going to buy some, but asked around about ground flax seed vs flax seed oil and everybody seemed to agree the oil was better.

The biggest difference is in the way its processed Flaxseed oil isnt any good if its not "cold pressed' and its temperature is never over about 30 degrees. Its kept in the fridge. Linseed and flaxseed are from exactly the same plant but when they are proceeesed differently you end up with furniture polish etc. The meal is often used for animal feeds but the properties in it are no where near as good as cold pressed flax seed and if its been processed over a certain temp it has the potential to do more harm than good.

I've never touched his glands before the other day, I've never had the need to, and I wont go making a habit out of it, but when it is swollen like it was, then I don't really have any other option. I will keep in mind to be gentle though :wink:

[imported_Kat]

Just to clear a few things up, there are internal and external glands and domestic dogs don't use their glands for territory marking as much as they would use them for faecal lubrication. True some dogs don't have problems, but I always think its better to prevent than have to deal with a problem. Usually in the surgery I would have seen dogs that had never had problems before, but were brought in with impacted glands and I mean impacted as in not fluid secretions; I mean hardened horrid threads of substance that caused the dog agony and infection.

Fair enough everyone has their own opinion but mine is that its better to prevent a problem.

[Horsefeathers!]

And mine is that the prevention can often CREATE the problem. The only dogs I've ever seen in our clinic with impacted glands are the ones who've had them diddled with throughout their lives. Beside all that, even if I believed that it should be done routinely, I think it's a vet problem, not a groomer/owner problem. I don't think people should be fooling with anything INSIDE a dog no matter how easy it's supposed to be. I've assisted on enough spays and neuters to comfortably say I think I could do that easily as well, but I'll leave that to the vets, too. :wink:

[Carolk9s]

Jesse had to have his anal glands expressed one time, he was about 5-6. I had not seen any butt scooting but one night he appeared very uncomfortable and restless. His glands were impacted. Vet expressed them, he has been fine ever since. Neither of the girls has ever had a problem. All have been kibble fed since birth. They do get the occaisional veggies, they all love carrots and green beans and pumpkin. Tomorrow is supposed to be cooler so today I will try to find some good raw bones for them to chew on.
I too feel that ROUTINE expressing of glands perpetuates a dog NEEDING to have them done for the rest of their life. Corrections in diet for a dog that has just 'once in a blue moon' problems is, IMO, the best way to go.

[imported_Cassie]

How do you do the pumpkin seeds? How benificial is the ground flax seed? I was actually going to buy some, but asked around about ground flax seed vs flax seed oil and everybody seemed to agree the oil was better.

Aroura, what I did was I purchased a coffee bean grinder...they are not that expensive. I buy whole organic flax seeds (which have been stored in the fridge at the grocery store) and I grind small amounts at a time. I do this with my pumpkin seeds as well...I buy only organic. Flax seeds have fibre in them and they also have your omega fatty acids. I never buy preground flax seeds...and when I grind them I store them in tupper ware in my freezer. :wink:
The best thing is I share the pumpkin seeds and flax seeds with my dogs. I sprinkle flax seeds on top of my yogert, cereal etc.
I also give my dogs plain organic bio live yogurt with field berries mixed in as well (and flax seeds :wink: ) field berries have alot of fiber in them. Just be careful of where you get them...I like to get organic or pick them myself in areas I know have not been treated with pesticides. Strawberries are good, but, are usually packed full of pesticides.

I used to get flax oil for my dogs...but, its so expensive and it doesnt have the complete benefits such as the ground seeds have. I can usually get a container of flax seeds for under a dollar and it will last me for a month...and I have 6 dogs.

[drjeffrock]

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Talk about Murphy's Law taking effect!!!!!! Kira just "shmeckled" for the first time today, aside from the normal drips after poo. I could not believe it, never in 7 years has she let them go. I thought it was Dex, the usual suspect. :oops: But it didnt take long to find out it was Kira. Oh boy, I dont think expressing her glands will be as easy as Dexter. Not that she would bite, but I know she is gonna wriggle around like crazy and freak out. Maybe its time to do the switch over to RMB and such. I still worry a little about intestinal problems from not chewing the bones up before swallowing. Stay tuned for an update...

[Aroura]

Oh dear, I feel for you Drjeff :drinking:

Kat, I think that that kind of problem can easily be prevented by feeling the area on a regular basis, if other dogs are like Montie they swell up quite a bit, and now that I know what to look for a check the area every night. It seems like everybody has their own oppinions on this, mine is to let nature take its course, but to be aware that problems can arise and know how to fix it if they do.

Thanks Cassie, I'll keep an eye out for cheap coffee grinders - its hard to find a bargain here but occasionally you get lucky. I'll have to check out the prices of whole flax seeds - again, things are expensive here - is it usual for 2oomL of flax seed oil to cost $11? :o I'd probably find that I'll still add the oil to their diet on occasion as well :wink: Do dry the pumpkin seeds before you grind them?

As for the yoghurt with feild berrys - well I don't think I'll be getting any feild berrys at this time of year, and I rarely eat yoghurt as I'm allergic to dairy BUT I was considering giving the dogs yakult on occasion - would this be good for them? I asked about this in a raw email group, but some people over seas hadn't heard of it - its comes in little bottles and is a probiotic drink, you only need a little bit per day as its very concentrated.

Drjeff, bones are broken down quite effectivly in the dogs intestinal tract. Horsefeathers has experienced problems with raw feeding in the past, but on the other hand, so many have not and have seen wonders happen in their dogs from it. Its best to weigh up the pros and cons and do what ever you feel happy with. Personally, my dogs have done nothing but thrive on it, I haven't seen a complication as yet and I do swear by the diet, all of our dogs have had so many benifits, from cysts dissapearing, chronic diareah (sp?) ending, even to dis pigmented browny grey dogs turning black - what they were supposed to be! :lol: I could go on with a full list, but you get the picture :wink: